[Discussion] Awakened logia theory

[Rikudou Tobi]

I clearly mentioned ID before. It was even the first sentence in my previous post and my point was that not only is that already quite far in the story (around 500 chapters), it had no influence on it whatsoever as no one suddenly started questioning DF and thinking "hmm Crocodile might be an awakened one too". That only started happening during the Dressrosa arc (around 800 chapters), so very recently.

What's more because it was Crocodile himself who mentioned the awakened zoans shortly before his DF power was explained once more and in particular his ability to suck the moisture out of things, it makes little sense that he is an awakened one too or that this is even implied. If that would be the case, it would have made much more sense that it was mentioned here as there was no reason for him to not mention it, but instead his ability to suck the moisture out of things was portrayed as being natural to the sand sand man.

Not only makes the ID reference no difference whatsoever, it even works against your statement.

And I seriously doubt your claim that there were a few people. I admit that I can't prove that there wasn't anyone in the entire world who would have come to this quite irrational conclusion, but I'm rather certain that you just are saying this now as even at this very moment we actually know almost nothing about what awakened DF are. Let alone that someone came to the conclusion that Crocodile is one just because he mentioned that the strong point of an awakened zoan is their durability. There was no connection whatsoever between Crocodile and those zoans, so someone saying that they are the same is randomly guessing.

Seriously you make it sound like Crocodile gave some lengthy, elaborate explanation on awakened DF users, but he just said two-three short sentences with little information. So saying that just because Crocodile knows something that by default it means he has it too, that's like me saying that just because I know which one is the gas pedal, I'm a professional F1 driver.

I need to clarify this ice thing real quick because you're not seeing the difference in ability here. Ice is suppose to freeze objects because of its low temperature, that's not a special ability it's science. Just like how fire burns objects with increase amount of temperature reducing the target to ash. However sand, the very sand you see today does not have the ability to waste a objects or humans upon contact, it is not natural. So your example is flawed. It's clearly not the same.

When akoji or sabo is sending projectiles by fire or ice it will freeze or burn the target without the use of hand contact. Crocodile cannot use this special ability in a projectile state. When he's propelling long rang sand attacks, they do not absorb moisture or rot away objects when hit. But when a fire projectile is hurtled at you of course you are going to burn and when a huge ice projectile is being hurtled out you then of course you are going to freeze.
And here the manga itself explains the difference between the basic sand-sand ability and whatever special ability crocodile has.

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The reason why I emphasize the difference in projectile and straight from the hand is because awakening/special ability starts from the hand contact from what we have seen from both crocodile and doflamingo respectively. It's also not the first time we've also seen doflamingo use his awakening before announcing that it is either so same can be said about crocodile.

I also said it before but you're assuming that I or most people didn't see crocodile being a possible awakened fruit user since the impel down just because he was the only fruit user that had knowledge about it in the whole facility and there are some who thought that awakening only applied to zoan types because he said that awakening's greatest strengths come from recovery speed and toughness.
It's hardly irrational, it's purely subjective with some basis behind it all. So no one here is right or wrong it's just a shared of interested and seeing ones point of interpretation and implication in the manga.
And because of that, that's why I used the haki example which LBreezy understood. You are right about the professional driver example you gave though, just by having knowledge about awakening does not exactly make you an awakening yourself but I was going by haki standards in the series. Almost all if not possibly all people that had extensive knowledge about haki has it themselves as well. Like when they are able to sense strong haki just by meeting the person. I saw it in the same manner of Crocodile being able to know that those jailers they beaten were awakened zoan types during his first encounter.

And you have just proven my point. Aokiji is an ice-man, he creates ice. That however is something different than freezing. Ice itself is the result of a freezing process. When you stick something in the freezer, it starts to freeze because of the temperature, not because there is ice. So that Aokiji with a simple touch can turn extremely large volumes of water into ice can be questioned as being "normal". The thing I tried to say here, is that the line between normal and awakened is unclear and that you just subjectively decided that Crocodile's ability to absorb moisture is not "normal" despite the fact that everyone always considered it normal, has been clearly explained as being normal and that there definitely is a rational connection between the two, just like there is between ice and freezing. And several people have been doing this for multiple characters.

It is completely normal because you just said mentioned the everyday life of how a freezing process works. All it means is that akoji is producing that much ice to freeze a small tsunami over or freeze just the top of the river water over with ice. However sand absorbing moisture from people and inanimate objects is not normal nor is the nature of sand.

So in the end we have almost no information about awakened fruits. That information you don't have you then subjectively used to claim that Crocodile is an awakened one and you then even portrayed that as being a fact. No you don't give that the benefit of the doubt. There is no reason to assume he is awakened, it has never been stated nor implied he is awakened, so that he isn't one that's what you give the benefit of the doubt for.

I just gave you a reason to assume he does and where it was implied. That's like you saying that Blackbeard does not have haki because it was never mentioned that he did despite sensing how strong luffy's haki has gotten over the years.
We can just agree to disagree since you're so bent on crocodile not being an awakening and I for him being an awakening. Only time will tell to be honest and I'll be sure to remind you if either of us is right or wrong.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Crocodile sucking out moisture wouldn't really be awakening tbvh. Sand naturally dries out things through contact. If Crocodile did Awaken, it'd probably be when he turned actual trees into sand.

 

[Simpleatitsbest]

The Alabasta arc is from over a decade ago. The first time awakened DF were mentioned, was during the ID arc and even then no one actually gave it much thought and it's very well possible Oda himself hadn't completely envisioned the concept. It's only when DD used it, it became a topic of discussion. So it's quite a stretch to say that it was implied all those years ago that Crocodile had an awakened DF, in particular because absolutely no one saw it that way until DD. The two are simply too far apart in time.

However even if you assume it was somehow implied, that doesn't make it a proven fact and as such you can't present it that way. Frankly even if Oda at one point confirms that Crocodile is awakened, it's very well possible he was just being pragmatic and turned him into an awakened one rather than already having been one.

And DF users using their DF in an unconventional way isn't unusual. There are numerous examples of that and the fact that until DD no one thought there was something weird about Crocodile's powers, says it all.

The line between a regular DF and an awakened one is currently a blur and as I said before if you divide the powers of a DF while originally you saw them as being normal to the DF, well then it devalues the concept of awakening as what purpose does it have if Luffy has been encountering numerous of them throughout his journey? As it stands now you can shift that line between a regular and an awakened DF as much as you wish because of that blurriness. For example Aokiji, his ability is ice, but that's something different than freezing stuff. Still he froze two tsunami's. Is that now normal or awakened? Same thing with the sand as what is supposed to be the basic category of manipulating sand?

Wow, you're really not giving credit where credit is due.. GODA has time and time again shown his immense storytelling abilities and within those are his foreshadowings. I'm whole heartedly on the side that Oda was foreshadowing awakenings from what Crocodile said and if I recall correctly just about everyone thought he had an insane ability for a logia, there just wasn't a next level title to put him under. When Zoan awakening was introduced they were given details of what that meant, which wasn't really applicable for other Devil Fruits types, so it really wasn't the most concrete statement to go and put 2 and 2 together.

From the very first chapter we have Shanks use CoK, a concept that wasn't even fully mentioned until Rayleigh explains it to Luffy.. That was the whole first half of the Grand Line. That's about as evident as you can get that Crocodile's information on DF was quite the hint to there being a next level and isn't just "somehow implied".. There's more cases where something was "implied" and could be called a "stretch"

 

[chopstickchakra]

People saying Croc couldn't have had awakening back at Alabasta because he didn't "show it" and his loss then would devalue it as a concept now forget authors over look some things at times or develop things deeper into a story that contrast with previous instances. In Naruto Kakashi fought Zabuza in part 1 and would have arguably lost and never used his Kamui despite having unlocked it back as a teenager when he killed Rin. Because the author didn't necessarily plan it out back then he couldn't show it but it doesn't eliminate the fact that Kakshi had Kamui during that fight and all the moments leading up to part 2.