Ashura didn't want to fight Indra and loved him deeply

[V h o]

If that were true, they wouldn't of killed each other off.

They didn't.

Edit:

so basically, i'm supposed to just take your word for it despite not being able to produce a single documented record of Ashura reaching out to Indra, considering neither Black Zetsu nor Hagoromo gave the slightest thing that even remotely suggested it. It's a simple enough request to produce something that says it, and seeing as though you can do everything but that, it further tells me you got nothing.

It takes 2 parties for there to be a war, and if Ashura was really that loving, that it stands to reason there would be some account of him extending an olive branch. And there isn't a single thing that says it since Black Zetsu's accounts said Ashura was apparently more concerned about defeating Indra than working with him.

Let me just ask you this, do you believe Hashirama was responsible for the wars with Madara?

 

[WalksInShadows]

Let me just ask you this, do you believe Hashirama was responsible for the wars with Madara?

i'm not interested in reach arguments. Either you have something that supports your claim or you have nothing at all.

 

[Remedy]

so basically, i'm supposed to just take your word for it despite not being able to produce a single documented record of Ashura reaching out to Indra, considering neither Black Zetsu nor Hagoromo gave the slightest thing that even remotely suggested it. It's a simple enough request to produce something that says it, and seeing as though you can do everything but that, it further tells me you got nothing.

It takes 2 parties for there to be a war, and if Ashura was really that loving, that it stands to reason there would be some account of him extending an olive branch. And there isn't a single thing that says it since Black Zetsu's accounts said Ashura was apparently more concerned about defeating Indra than working with him.

Except for the manga never said nor implied Ashura was prideful, and wanted to defeat his brother. Sage specifically said he is cooperative and wanted to achieve peace through love & good will, Indra was the opposite who wanted revenge and power. You are ignoring an important aspect of Indra's character, which has been paralleled to Sasuke and Madara as his reincarnates. That aspect is his bitterness and desire for vengeance. Hashi tried to save Madara, as well as Naruto saving Sasuke from darkness, its logical to conclude, with the manga implying it not only with one Ashura reincarnation, but two that Ashura was the same with Indra. It details symbolism, dictatorship vs. democracy.

 

[V h o]

i'm not interested in reach arguments. Either you have something that supports your claim or you have nothing at all.

I have already supported my claim though. But it's fine that you don't want to answer my question.

 

[WalksInShadows]

Except for the manga never said nor implied Ashura was prideful, and wanted to defeat his brother. Sage specifically said he is cooperative and wanted to achieve peace through love & good will, Indra was the opposite who wanted revenge and power. You are ignoring an important aspect of Indra's character, which has been paralleled to Sasuke and Madara as his reincarnates. That aspect is his bitterness and desire for vengeance. Hashi tried to save Madara, as well as Naruto saving Sasuke from darkness, its logical to conclude, with the manga implying it not only with one Ashura reincarnation, but two that Ashura was the same with Indra. It details symbolism, dictatorship vs. democracy.

the fact that the war between them dragged out for as long as it did with no indication whatsoever that Ashura made any attempt before, during, or after the war to reach out to Indra says so. Even more so was the fact that by all accounts of the situation between those 2, the beefing continued with their descendants.

I have already supported my claim though. But it's fine that you don't want to answer my question.

you didn't support jack, otherwise you or anybody else would have produced a panel or page that supports your argument. I have yet to see anything other than ppl beating around the bush trying to use Hashirama and Naruto.

 

[V h o]

you didn't support jack, otherwise you or anybody else would have produced a panel or page that supports your argument. I have yet to see anything other than ppl beating around the bush trying to use Hashirama and Naruto.

It's like people don't even read my comments/posts or something, I have given a panel of Ashura being told to be peaceful. Contrarily have you shown panels to prove your assumption?

 

[WalksInShadows]

It's like people don't even read my comments/posts or something, I have given a panel of Ashura being told to be peaceful. Contrarily have you shown panels to prove your assumption?

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Hagoromo states that a long war started after Indra refused to cooperate.

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Naruto asks Hagoromo if he watched the 2 of them continuously fight each other for generations, and Hagoromo doesn't even deny it.

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Black Zetsu comments that it is uncommon for the transmigrates to cooperate. Why? Because obviously there was none on Ashura or Indra's part for there to have been a long war that was fought in the first place. Not to mention the fact that this statement, compounded with the previous point, only further says there was literally no cooperation being done between any of the transmigrates from the Warring States Era.

This alone makes it pointless to associate someone's personality with Ashura's like that simply because they're transmigrates. If it was a valid argument, then there would've been recorded attempts in every last generation with one transmigrate cooperating with another before Hashirama and Madara's turn. And as such, there are absolutely 0.

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Black Zetsu's statement about Indra losing the war, which was already stated to have been a long one, clearly suggests there was never an attempt made on Ashura's part to cooperate with Indra after the latter's defeat.

 

[V h o]

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Hagoromo states that a long war started after Indra refused to cooperate.

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Naruto asks Hagoromo if he watched the 2 of them continuously fight each other for generations, and Hagoromo doesn't even deny it.

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Black Zetsu comments that it is uncommon for the transmigrates to cooperate. Why? Because obviously there was none on Ashura or Indra's part for there to have been a long war that was fought in the first place. Not to mention the fact that this statement, compounded with the previous point, only further says there was literally no cooperation being done between any of the transmigrates from the Warring States Era.

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Black Zetsu's statement about Indra losing the war, which was already stated to have been a long one, clearly suggests there was never an attempt made on Ashura's part to cooperate.

Not really. Cooperation takes 2 people, not 1. Can you say that Hashirama didn't want cooperation with Madara even though they fought in a few battles during their lifetime? The manga hasn't deliberately said Ashura didn't want war, but a man who was known for love versus a man who started the war. Who can we say wanted cooperation more? Indra or Ashura? It's more reasonable to believe Ashura didn't want to fight, what would be his motive? Indra clearly wanted to fight so cooperation wouldn't be available just for Indra being himself.

 

[WalksInShadows]

Not really. Cooperation takes 2 people, not 1. Can you say that Hashirama didn't want cooperation with Madara even though they fought in a few battles during their lifetime?

there are statements that said Hashirama desired cooperation with Madara and that he made attempts at it. It's a huge leap from what you're trying to use as an argument.

The manga hasn't deliberately said Ashura didn't want war, but a man who was known for love versus a man who started the war.

just because the manga doesn't outright say Ashura didn't want a war didn't mean he tried his best to end it. All accounts basically suggests the same thing: Ashura valued Indra's defeat over his cooperation.

Who can we say wanted cooperation more? Indra or Ashura?

obviously neither did, otherwise there would have been at least 1 account from Hagoromo that says so or at least suggested it. I gave you documented evidence that Ashura via Hagoromo that neither was interested in the other's cooperation, and you're trying to downplay it.

It's more reasonable to believe Ashura didn't want to fight, what would be his motive? Indra clearly wanted to fight so cooperation wouldn't be available just for Indra being himself.

i'm not inclined to take your word for it, because what i presented offers reasonable doubt to believe Ashura was just as well interested in defeating Indra to verify why their dad chose him over Indra. Hagoromo basically says

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that Ashura cliqued up with other ppl to engage Indra in a fight, and he is clearly shown doing so. That's not something someone who is interested in cooperation does. More to the point, i don't see the look on Ashura's face as being one of wanting cooperation. The look on his face is just as prideful as Indra's.

 

[V h o]

there are statements that said Hashirama desired cooperation with Madara and that he made attempts at it. It's a huge leap from what you're trying to use as an argument.

just because the manga doesn't outright say Ashura didn't want a war didn't mean he tried his best to end it. All accounts basically suggests the same thing: Ashura valued Indra's defeat over his cooperation.

obviously neither did, otherwise there would have been at least 1 account from Hagoromo that says so or at least suggested it. I gave you documented evidence that Ashura via Hagoromo that neither was interested in the other's cooperation, and you're trying to downplay it.

i'm not inclined to take your word for it, because what i presented offers reasonable doubt to believe Ashura was just as well interested in defeating Indra to verify why their dad chose him over Indra. Hagoromo basically says

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that Ashura cliqued up with other ppl to engage Indra in a fight, and he is clearly shown doing so. That's not something someone who is interested in cooperation does. More to the point, i don't see the look on Ashura's face as being one of wanting cooperation. The look on his face is just as prideful as Indra's.

I'm not sure if your trolling me or not. What would Ashura's advantage be for fighting against Indra? I can not believe that you think the man who was known for love wanted to fight his brother, while Indra on the other hand was not responsible for fighting or that Indra wanted to cooperate himself.

 

[WalksInShadows]

I'm not sure if your trolling me or not. What would Ashura's advantage be for fighting against Indra? I can not believe that you think the man who was known for love wanted to fight his brother, while Indra on the other hand was not responsible for fighting or that Indra wanted to cooperate himself.

you cannot possibly be serious proposing such stupidity when the facts speak for themselves that Hagoromo couldn't have made himself any clearer by making numerous statements indicating there wasn't any desire from either one of them to cooperate with each other. Especially when he answered Naruto by confirming it's been going on for generations. Generations man. I said it for someone else, and i'll say it for you: throwing out cliche remarks won't make my argument any less valid. Because you haven't done anything beyond producing the very first mention of the guy, which was a vague one at best. I, on the other hand, have actually used material that is actually recent to support my case. This is a prime reason why i dislike posting scans: ppl like you will pretend it didn't happen.

 

[V h o]

you cannot possibly be serious proposing such stupidity when the facts speak for themselves that Hagoromo couldn't have made himself any clearer by making numerous statements indicating there wasn't any desire from either one of them to cooperate with each other. Especially when he answered Naruto by confirming it's been going on for generations. Generations man.

I'm not sure you understood what cooperation is. It takes 2 to cooperate. Rather Ashura proposed cooperation or not, is futile when his brother Indra refused to cooperate with the man who took his succession. If your telling me Indra wanted cooperation, then I know for sure your trolling.

Edit:

I said it for someone else, and i'll say it for you: throwing out cliche remarks won't make my argument any less valid. Because you haven't done anything beyond producing the very first mention of the guy, which was a vague one at best. I, on the other hand, have actually used material that is actually recent to support my case. This is a prime reason why i dislike posting scans: ppl like you will pretend it didn't happen

Bruh your scans told me the cycle of history that there was war. Same can be said for Hashirama and madara that people have said repeatedly, but that didn't prove your point that Indra wanted to cooperate or Ashura didn't. Ironically it shows more that Indra was not cooperating with Ashura. Posting random scans that doesn't even explain what your arguing helps no one.

 

[Remedy]

the fact that the war between them dragged out for as long as it did with no indication whatsoever that Ashura made any attempt before, during, or after the war to reach out to Indra says so. Even more so was the fact that by all accounts of the situation between those 2, the beefing continued with their descendants.

The main instigators of the war were from Indra's linage, not Ashura's, that's why the Uchiha's were the main victims of manipulation. It was easy to pull them into darkness, to keep the cycle going, the fact that BZ never used one Senju to put his plan to revive Kaguya supports that. Ashura's spirit dwelled to counteract the hate and vengeance Indra's spirit puts in his reincarnates, to overall come to a conclusion of both parties coming to a mutual resolution and work together, which Naruto and Sasuke are currently doing, BZ pointed that out.

just because the manga doesn't outright say Ashura didn't want a war didn't mean he tried his best to end it. All accounts basically suggests the same thing: Ashura valued Indra's defeat over his cooperation.

Blatant lie, and fabricated. That totally contradicts his character which represents love and peace, which the manga has said. Nothing indicated he valued any victory over his brother.

 

[WalksInShadows]

I'm not sure you understood what cooperation is. It takes 2 to cooperate. Rather Ashura proposed cooperation or not, is futile when his brother Indra refused to cooperate with the man who took his succession. If your telling me Indra wanted cooperation, then I know for sure your trolling.

you're really trying to sell me hard aren't you? If you ever got the impression that i ever said Indra wanted to cooperate, even after i already pointed out his refusal to, idk what it says about your ability to comprehend a sentence.

Edit:


Bruh your scans told me the cycle of history that there was war. Same can be said for Hashirama and madara that people have said repeatedly, but that didn't prove your point that Indra wanted to cooperate or Ashura didn't. Ironically is shows more that Indra was not cooperating with Ashura. Posting random scans that doesn't even explain what your arguing helps no one.

you are simply a lost cause. You ask for scans supporting my argument, i gave it to you, and you're either too stubborn to accept the plausibility even after Hagoromo didn't deny it, you are incapable of understanding, or both. There's simply no point in continuing a debate with someone who asks for scans but then make attempts at devaluing the evidence in them once it's been shoved in their face, and on the same token can't/won't provide squat from their end.

The main instigators of the war were from Indra's linage, not Ashura's, that's why the Uchiha's were the main victims of manipulation. It was easy to pull them into darkness, to keep the cycle going, the fact that BZ never used one Senju to put his plan to revive Kaguya supports that. Ashura's spirit dwelled to counteract the hate and vengeance Indra's spirit puts in his reincarnates, to overall come to a conclusion of both parties coming to a mutual resolution and work together, which Naruto and Sasuke are currently doing, BZ pointed that out.



Blatant lie, and fabricated. That totally contradicts his character which represents love and peace, which the manga has said. Nothing indicated he valued any victory over his brother.

see, this is why i know this thread, and subsequently, your point, is a fail one:

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It is on this page that Black Zetsu basically points a chief component of why there was no cooperation from either side. He practically says that he played the transmigrate members of both clans against each other in order to find the one that was capable of awakening the Rinnegan. Seems to me you're the one posting fabrications.

 

[V h o]

Spoiler

you're really trying to sell me hard aren't you? If you ever got the impression that i ever said Indra wanted to cooperate, even after i already pointed out his refusal to, idk what it says about your ability to comprehend a sentence.

you are simply a lost cause. You ask for scans supporting my argument, i gave it to you, and you're either too stubborn to accept the plausibility even after Hagoromo didn't deny it, you are incapable of understanding, or both. There's simply no point in continuing a debate with someone who asks for scans but then make attempts at devaluing the evidence in them once it's been shoved in their face, and on the same token can't/won't provide squat from their end.

see, this is why i know this thread, and subsequently, your point, is a fail one:

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You must be registered for see links

It is on this page that Black Zetsu basically points a chief component of why there was no cooperation from either side. He practically says that he played the transmigrate members of both clans against each other in order to find the one that was capable of awakening the Rinnegan. Seems to me you're the one posting fabrications.

Yeah your trolling. Your distribution of the blame for the war is amusing though.

 

[XY iNVeRSe]

Duh, why else would someone as wise as Rikidou choose asura as his successor and state several times that asura believed in love, so out of all people, why wouldn't asura love his own brother.

 

[Remedy]

see, this is why i know this thread, and subsequently, your point, is a fail one:

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You must be registered for see links

It is on this page that Black Zetsu basically points a chief component of why there was no cooperation from either side. He practically says that he played the transmigrate members of both clans against each other in order to find the one that was capable of awakening the Rinnegan. Seems to me you're the one posting fabrications.

Let rephrase it for you, BZ never succeeded in using a Senju, why do you think the Uchiha was labeled a cursed clan and the Senju were not. Yes both clans, descendants of Indra and Ashura fought each other for power we know this, but were talking about Ashura & Indra. Ashura's method of peace was through cooperation and love, Indra's was not, he didn't want to cooperate, he just wanted power and vengeance. You're trying to implying Ashura wasn't diplomatic when the manga has stated otherwise. Your argument is futile.

 

[XY iNVeRSe]

you're really trying to sell me hard aren't you? If you ever got the impression that i ever said Indra wanted to cooperate, even after i already pointed out his refusal to, idk what it says about your ability to comprehend a sentence.

you are simply a lost cause. You ask for scans supporting my argument, i gave it to you, and you're either too stubborn to accept the plausibility even after Hagoromo didn't deny it, you are incapable of understanding, or both. There's simply no point in continuing a debate with someone who asks for scans but then make attempts at devaluing the evidence in them once it's been shoved in their face, and on the same token can't/won't provide squat from their end.

see, this is why i know this thread, and subsequently, your point, is a fail one:

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You must be registered for see links

It is on this page that Black Zetsu basically points a chief component of why there was no cooperation from either side. He practically says that he played the transmigrate members of both clans against each other in order to find the one that was capable of awakening the Rinnegan. Seems to me you're the one posting fabrications.

All I got from BZ is that he manipulated indra into awakening the rinnegan and tried to get others to awaken it through deception, but the only one capable was madara, honestly.

 

[WalksInShadows]

Let rephrase it for you, BZ never succeeded in using a Senju, why do you think the Uchiha was labeled a cursed clan and the Senju were not. Yes both clans, descendants of Indra and Ashura fought each other for power we know this, but were talking about Ashura & Indra. Ashura's method of peace was through cooperation and love, Indra's was not, he didn't want to cooperate, he just wanted power and vengeance. You're trying to implying Ashura wasn't diplomatic when the manga has stated otherwise. Your argument is futile.

"i approached the transmigrates of each clan, and i tried to have them awaken the Rinnegan." He used both. It doesn't matter in this particular discussion which member of which clan eventually did it. Once again, fail point.

All I got from BZ is that he manipulated indra into awakening the rinnegan and tried to get others to awaken it through deception, but the only one capable was madara, honestly.

he said he was certain that Madara could do it after him and Hashirama became transmigrates. He noted beforehand that there transmigrates he had used that belonged to both clans. It was only until Madara that he didn't see any need to concern himself any further with anyone from the Senju.

 

[XY iNVeRSe]

"i approached the transmigrates of each clan, and i tried to have them awaken the Rinnegan." He used both. It doesn't matter in this particular discussion which member of which clan eventually did it. Once again, fail point.

he said he was certain that Madara could do it after him and Hashirama became transmigrates. He noted beforehand that there transmigrates he had used that belonged to both clans. It was only until Madara that he didn't see any need to concern himself any further with anyone from the Senju.

How many senju have dojutsu? There's a reason why he deceived the uchiha, thus why he chose indra and madara and other uchiha, sense BZ changed the uchiha tablet.