[Discussion] Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

Aim64C

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Fell asleep after the second line, I'm sorry. In all seriousness; Sure, you can be informed on things, but you don't have to make each and every post a script for a detective movie. It is and stays a forum with mostly juvenile members. Either way, you can still inform others and summarize what you'd like to say. The way you build-up your posts is annoying to me xd Lot of unnecessary words

Honestly, if you think the words I'm using are unnecessary, then you really don't understand what I'm saying.

There is a method to my 'speech' that few really grasp - the shorter my answer, the less certain and the more general my statement becomes. I use phrases like "I believe so" where others would say "yes," - or "that is unlikely" where others would say "not going to happen."

Thus, my 'short answers' are basically saying nothing - because my analysis is often irreducible. Breaking it down into terms fit for simpletons arms them with false ideologies because they lack critical thinking capacity. Doing such is also insulting to people with critical thinking capacity, as they tend to appreciate thorough communication of ideas and schools of thought.

If someone wants simple "This good - you am do this" type answers - they can look to dictatorships and some religions. Those institutions are quite fond of reducing human thought to "If-Then" operations.
 

Space Cowboy

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Fell asleep after the second line, I'm sorry. In all seriousness; Sure, you can be informed on things, but you don't have to make each and every post a script for a detective movie. It is and stays a forum with mostly juvenile members. Either way, you can still inform others and summarize what you'd like to say. The way you build-up your posts is annoying to me xd Lot of unnecessary words
I usually hate reading long ass responses also but his are very intelligent and well-informed so i always make time to read his.
 

shelke

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Why should weapons exist in the first place? I never could fathom any hollow reasoning behind this. They are just another tool for subjugation and slaughter.
 

YowYan

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I usually hate reading long ass responses also but his are very intelligent and well-informed so i always make time to read his.

Maybe I get agitated by his long posts, since I'm already familiar with most points.
 

Aim64C

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Why should weapons exist in the first place? I never could fathom any hollow reasoning behind this. They are just another tool for subjugation and slaughter.

For exactly that reason.

You and I are in competition with each other. My genetic code seeks to achieve the greatest marks of survivability amongst our species. That means not only physical and mental superiority, but also the ability to recognize and utilize other advantage points. Being 'civil' is merely a means to an end. I profit more from being civil towards most people and participating in a peaceful society than I do being beligerent and coercive.

Of course, my goals are more in line with the overall goals of society - so it generally benefits my survivability (and that of my offspring) to play nice and ethically. Superior as I may be - a million pissed simpletons can be quite destructive when they so decide. Which means that failing to 'play nice' means I isolate myself from being a part of that community (unless I like torches and pitch forks in my stomach).

But there are others, who, for whatever reason, have decide that their goals do not match up well with society. These people then recognize the advantage weapons (and killing or the threat thereof) give. Unless someone is willing to bring the killing to the killers and the raping to the rapists... then these people practice the behavior freely and without consequence. There are two ways to survive once this happens - to submit and obey... or to resist and overthrow.

Attempting to resist without overthrowing will result in death and failure of your genetic lineage. Whether the actions of your killers are moral or immoral is irrelevant - you are no longer around to present any alternative ideology.

Submission ultimately begins a selection process that trims the species of individual expression/concern and independence. Essentially - the descendants of people who make a habit of submitting to tyrants 'evolve' into cattle. Individuals who resist are purged from the population by the tyrants and the breeding selects for submissive, docile, task-drones.

Resisting and overthrowing preserves individual intelligence but promotes conflict and competitive cycles. This can lead to expanding and collapsing tyrannical systems or other behavior that exploits the efforts of individuals.

The idea of my offspring becoming servant to the will of another genetic lineage is unacceptable. I will not condemn the lineage my forebearers fought to preserve through millions of years based on the whimsical, immature notions of petty idealists.
 

shelke

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@Aim64c For arguments sake, you should be aware that I don't believe in the superiority of once race over another or the survivability options on genetic codes through subjugation. I completely shun this philosophy, but I do condone the idea of breeding for only selected individuals who can actually make the human race progress, rather than regress. This would automatically kick start the process of winnowing and take forward the select few, better offspring from better gene-pools.

Wars, nationalism, religion? No matter which race practices it regardless of their pedigree, they would have the regressive germs of conquest whether nationally or on smaller scale. To give such people guns is helping them fling themselves into an endless spiral of conquest for survival. It's nothing but brainwashing in my book. Better put all of them down once and for all then, as this would enable the better, 'liberated' race to emerge, free from the fetters of tried and redundant race traits.
 

Aim64C

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@Aim64c For arguments sake, you should be aware that I don't believe in the superiority of once race over another

Race and genetics are subjects only related on a tangent. A race defines a set of common genetic traits most often affecting anatomical morphology and pigmentation. There are other genetic factors that influence all humans in more profound ways than those we use to categorize racial groups.

or the survivability options on genetic codes through subjugation.

There is no optimal survival strategy other than versatility. That is exactly why we have become sexual creatures and purposely mutate our genetic code between generations (there is even evidence to suggest that a majority of these mutations are not 'random' and deliberate duplications and displacement occurs).

Just as some will find survival in community - others will find survival in preying upon that community. The "ideal" organism is one that can recognize and take advantage of both strategies depending upon the environment.

The meaning of life is very, very simple. All of the human race can be tracked back to twenty-six unique mitochondrial mutations. That means six unique females (some of them descending from even fewer females). One female ultimately populated Asia and America - almost all indigenous peoples to those regions trace their lineage back to that single, unique mitochondrial strain.

How it was her offspring that came to survive and spawn billions of individuals is lost to time. But the fact remains that her children, grandchildren, etc were the only ones who produced offspring that survived to this day. Our current life is an extention of their will for us to thrive and survive.

But here's the ultimate question... with as many people as exist today, and as many different wills, ideologies, and lineages... is your blood line going to see the turn of the 121st century? Or will it be lost to time?

I completely shun this philosophy, but I do condone the idea of breeding for only selected individuals who can actually make the human race progress, rather than regress. This would automatically kick start the process of winnowing and take forward the select few, better offspring from better gene-pools.

The idea that we are fully capable of determining what is "best" is fundamentally flawed. Like most things, "best" is dependent upon circumstances that are frequently outside of our direct or indirect control or influence. While certain things like genetic disease can be weeded out with genetic therapy and other technologies - the idea that one can create a "best" human - or even a "better" human is based purely upon subjective reasoning that does not reflect the reality of survival.

Wars, nationalism, religion? No matter which race practices it regardless of their pedigree, they would have the regressive germs of conquest whether nationally or on smaller scale. To give such people guns is helping them fling themselves into an endless spiral of conquest for survival. It's nothing but brainwashing in my book. Better put all of them down once and for all then, as this would enable the better, 'liberated' race to emerge, free from the fetters of tried and redundant race traits.

The 'problem' isn't race. It isn't violence. The 'problem' is that selfish behavior is and always will be an effective and realistic means of survival. Look at viruses. If over a billion years of evolution has failed to develop a species capable of being virus-free - what makes you think that you're going to be able to exterminate or breed selfish behavior out of human beings (or, at least, the will to be selfish to the extent that another individual is compromised in the process)?

If it works for viruses - it works for all living things on some scale or another. Birds will fight each other over food. Why? Because it doesn't matter who kills the food - it matters who eats the food. While most natural systems have the benefit of geography to temper run-away behavior of parasitic behavior, it has been shown in the laboratory setting that life can and will 'evolve' itself into extinction - with parasitic forms sequestering resources and over-populating to the point that resources are depleted and the whole 'species' dies within its biosphere.

Cancer is an example of what happens when there is no geographic containment (at least, within an organism). The cells replicate and steal resources at a rate faster than the body can afford to feed. It is a parasitic mutation of the hosts' cells and will kill the organism unless it is contained and destroyed.

Any healthy cell can spawn a caste of cancer cells. You cannot "breed" it out of the body's cells. The fact of the matter is that it is an effective means of reproduction and temporary survival. If the host body's cells (or the DNA from which they derive) does not develop systems to deal with this problem - it will most certainly perish.

Bacteria, however, are 'cancer' freed from the need of a host organsm (or, rather, cancerous cells are more similar to bacterial cells in behavior).

Both 'systems' (social and individual) are valid for survival, depending upon the circumstances presented. While the 'cell' analogy works in principle, it does neglect the reality that people can choose their role in a way that cells cannot.

Either way, I'm digressing.
 

shelke

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^ I am not going to entertain the rest of your post, as it detracts from the human philosophies debate at hand. Try to stay on topic. I do understand where you are coming from, but these discussions are better understood face to face, rather than typing a mountain of text to convey a single idea of survival based on a few recycled philosophies.

What is subjectivity and Objectivity then? If I look at it from an objective perceptive all realities and experiences are subjective, Objective reality doesn't exist at all. No one can ever be truly objective, that much is a factor of certainty. Survival is also a subjective stance rather than an objective matter; it hinges upon choices if anything else.

If select few choose to procreate - bringing the best of the best from the select race - from a group/clan/race that carry the philosophies of liberalism and open-mindedness, surely some change can be brought into the world through this. The fact that you think that killing and survival are somehow a necessity, and programmed into our genetic code than these are also general genetic reactions brought about by an explosion in population.

Population control needs to be practiced. Not everyone should be allowed to procreate and create more chaos in regards to general economical imbalance which is creating or making crime rates in general sky rocket.
 

Aim64C

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^ I am not going to entertain the rest of your post, as it detracts from the human philosophies debate at hand.

None of the above deviates from human philosophies. I understand that mediocrity has poisoned your mind, but I prefer discussion with sentient individuals.

Try to stay on topic.

Did... you apply an ounce of awareness before stating this?

I do understand where you are coming from, but these discussions are better understood face to face, rather than typing a mountain of text to convey a single idea of survival based on a few recycled philosophies.

The discussion is irrelevant to the mechanics. Obey them or you are history.

What is subjectivity and Objectivity then? If I look at it from an objective perceptive all realities and experiences are subjective, Objective reality doesn't exist at all. No one can ever be truly objective, that much is a factor of certainty. Survival is also a subjective stance rather than an objective matter; it hinges upon choices if anything else.

Objectivity does exist in events and the factors that influence them. Attempts to isolate the factors and their influence is what is called science. We can, later, after building theories (which are subjective interpretation of objective events), manipulate and utilize these factors to create what we call Engineering. Proper theory and implementation allows us to engineer the world around us to behave in ways we want it to.

If select few choose to procreate - bringing the best of the best from the select race

This is where you don't understand.

There is no such thing as "best."

Do you know why, as humans migrated from Africa, genetic adaptations that reduced the melanin in the skin (or changed it - Asians and Caucasians have two completely different genetic pathways to a similar effect)? Because at the higher latitudes, vitamin D production falls off considerably - particularly when you spend your time covered in clothing (necessary for our survival in the northern latitudes). Those with lighter skin had a statistical advantage in the higher latitudes compared to those with darker skin.

At the same time, sickle-cell anemia is an adaptation to deal with Malaria. The blood cells, though less effective at carrying oxygen, are much more difficult to block from circulating. This means that, in areas where high percentages of the population are infected with malaria - those with sickle-cell have an adaptation that grants them an edge in survival. Even though it is NOT an advantageous adaptation outside of highly infected areas.

Selective factors are nearly impossible to predict or control. We are always under the influence of various forms of selection (even self-imposed; our intelligence originated from women's selection of intelligent/interesting male counterparts... as a side-effect, women were driven to stealth-ovulation to deal with the consequences of increasing intelligence, now fueled by adultery and inheritance politics that were becoming increasingly complex from the simple behavior seen in other animals).

- from a group/clan/race that carry the philosophies of liberalism and open-mindedness, surely some change can be brought into the world through this.

Liberalism and open-mindedness are not equivocal.

Further - change has already been brought into the world because of this philosophy. The average size of the human brain has been shrinking and there is speculation that the human mind is becoming increasingly selective about what it is capable of learning.

Tens of thousands of years with compact, populous societies have reduced the need for individuals to have broad yet detailed mastery of topics - and they now only need to focus on a few details. Worse, rather than choosing to be part of society out of conscious recognition of its advantages in avoiding more risky (if more rewarding) personal exploits and endeavors. No more is this more apparent than in the employee's obsession that has infected this nation: "I need someone to give me a job."

The average person grows increasingly reliant upon instruction with each passing generation. "You need to do this, now." "You need to do that, now." We are slowly being bred into a hive-mind... or worse - soul-less servants and task-drones.

At least the individuals within a hive-mind carry out functions to sustain the colony on instinct... they don't really need to be told to do it - it's just how the 'individual' exists.

The fact that you think that killing and survival are somehow a necessity, and programmed into our genetic code than these are also general genetic reactions brought about by an explosion in population.

You don't really understand what I was saying, at all.

One can still make a decent living off of predatory behavior, and always will. Predatory behavior takes many forms - from title and pay-day loans to rapists and murderers. Exactly what natural and environmental factors contribute to their selection of predatory behavior is irrelevant to the fact that it is a perfectly valid means of survival.

This is where you are part of the hive-mind and I am an individual consciously choosing the advantages of society. You see it as "there is a reason for police."

I see it as: "There are people out there who will do me harm."

The police can only be reasonably expected to respond after someone has already chosen to commit predatory behavior - meaning there is already a victim (at least an imminant one).

Society can tolerate the loss of a few individuals, so long as their loss triggers a reaction against the force that caused the loss (and prevents future loss from that same source). I can't realistically survive by simply shooting up the local stores and taking what I need - because police will eventually respond to that behavior and put an end to it (and me). If a few children die or a few adults die - it's little consequence to society so long as the behavior was stopped.

If I happen to be such a victim, though, it's of great consequence to me. I refuse to be merely a trip-wire for the hive-mind.

Population control needs to be practiced. Not everyone should be allowed to procreate and create more chaos in regards to general economical imbalance which is creating or making crime rates in general sky rocket.

If you mean by fire-bombing the ghettos and crime-ridden trailer parks. Then I suppose we're on the same page.

Otherwise, while I sound like a 'eugenecist' - I'm not at all for forced systems of eugenics. Mostly for ethical reasons, but also because - like I said - we never know what factors are going to crop up to influence selection. Constrictive eugenic programs limit the genetic variation amongst populations and make them more suceptible to being wiped out by particularly infectious diseases, environmental changes, or other flaws.
 

shelke

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Since I am mediocre, this discussion shouldn't carry itself any further.
 

Darthlawsuit

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Honestly, if you think the words I'm using are unnecessary, then you really don't understand what I'm saying.

There is a method to my 'speech' that few really grasp - the shorter my answer, the less certain and the more general my statement becomes. I use phrases like "I believe so" where others would say "yes," - or "that is unlikely" where others would say "not going to happen."

Thus, my 'short answers' are basically saying nothing - because my analysis is often irreducible. Breaking it down into terms fit for simpletons arms them with false ideologies because they lack critical thinking capacity. Doing such is also insulting to people with critical thinking capacity, as they tend to appreciate thorough communication of ideas and schools of thought.

If someone wants simple "This good - you am do this" type answers - they can look to dictatorships and some religions. Those institutions are quite fond of reducing human thought to "If-Then" operations.
Remember people have become dumber lately and you have to speak in shorter words for them. When you get someone intelligent you can put all the details you want knowing they will actually understand it. Otherwise all of your words are wasted on someone that cannot/willnot read it.

However some of your other posts went too into depth on something that was not really asked.

Why should weapons exist in the first place? I never could fathom any hollow reasoning behind this. They are just another tool for subjugation and slaughter.
I could kill you with oxygen or water. Everything in this world is a weapon if you are creative. Pencil? Well you have a soft spot at the back of your skull and motor control functions not too much further up.
 

NarutoDKurosaki

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I could kill you with oxygen or water. Everything in this world is a weapon if you are creative. Pencil? Well you have a soft spot at the back of your skull and motor control functions not too much further up.
i like this
 
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Remember people have become dumber lately and you have to speak in shorter words for them. When you get someone intelligent you can put all the details you want knowing they will actually understand it. Otherwise all of your words are wasted on someone that cannot/willnot read it.

However some of your other posts went too into depth on something that was not really asked.





I could kill you with oxygen or water. Everything in this world is a weapon if you are creative. Pencil? Well you have a soft spot at the back of your skull and motor control functions not too much further up.

O.k so bottom line your trying to say that you can use anything as a weapon besides guns that's interesting but if that's so it goes back to some people's question of why did we the land that was dubbed the land of opportunities and freedom? I think make guns in the first place. Just asking. No argument here.
 

YowYan

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Darthlawsuit

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O.k so bottom line your trying to say that you can use anything as a weapon besides guns that's interesting but if that's so it goes back to some people's question of why did we the land that was dubbed the land of opportunities and freedom? I think make guns in the first place. Just asking. No argument here.

You can use ANYTHING as a weapon. Even foam packaging insulation can kill someone.

I have no clue what you just asked/stated. Your sentence/paragraph does not make sense.
 

NarutoDKurosaki

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You can use ANYTHING as a weapon. Even foam packaging insulation can kill someone.

I have no clue what you just asked/stated. Your sentence/paragraph does not make sense.

Even a pen is a lethal weapon these days
 

SandVillageShinobi

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Banning guns will affect us in the worse of ways. Criminals won't be bothered to break another law. When the criminals have guns and our law abiding citizens don't what's gonna happen? The police won't always be there and even if they are they won't always help. We have a right to protect outrselves.
 

NarutoDKurosaki

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Banning guns will affect us in the worse of ways. Criminals won't be bothered to break another law. When the criminals have guns and our law abiding citizens don't what's gonna happen? The police won't always be there and even if they are they won't always help. We have a right to protect outrselves.

I tend to think this way as well also. Its just you can never win because stupid humans being as unintelligent as we are, find ways to harm people with anything
 
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