Apples n Oranges

[Rιver]

@-K-

Fortunately, that notion is made dross by very nature of the Mangekyō Sharingan. Itachi does not possess the doryōku of Keitai Henka, thus; he would have never been able to utilize Enton in the matter Sasuke displays.

@Frikid

Many translators, especially on Naruto-Forums, have translated Danzō’s linguistics as directly comparing Sasuke’s Genjutsu to Itachi’s Tsukuyomi. He first praises Sasuke for placing a Genjutsu upon him, then belittles it by relating it to Itachi's Tsukuyomi. The whole statement arose because Danzō saw similarities between the brothers i.e. Amaterasu.

He may have; but within his Genjutsu realm. In Itachi's Tsukuyomi, he's able to manipulate things; e.g. mass, time and the space itself. Although a weak evidence, it's a possibility.

Keitai Henka is also an ability that is trainable. Sasuke and Naruto both trained their Keitai Henka to the utmost limits, at points where they could manipulate jutsu's to incredible levels; Fūton: Rasenshuriken are Enton: Kagutsuchi are fine examples. In this case though, the ability most likely requires skill, experience, access and creativity due to it being a Dōjutsu ability. Itachi possessed 2 or 3 out of 4.​

 

[Varrah]

I have to clarify: you are aware I am speaking on Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke?

He may have; but within his Genjutsu realm. In Itachi's Tsukuyomi, he's able to manipulate things; e.g. mass, time and the space itself. Although a weak evidence, it's a possibility.

The possibility receives mootness when the disparities of the doryōkus’ are considered: Tsukuyomi is the only technique that has altered a recipient’s sense of time; Sasuke’s Sharingan Genjutsu has not achieved this. All of the Genjutsu Sasuke has utilized have been standardized, binding, sleepiness, and transverse illusions.

Keitai Henka is also an ability that is trainable. Sasuke and Naruto both trained their Keitai Henka to the utmost limits, at points where they could manipulate jutsu's to incredible levels; Fūton: Rasenshuriken are Enton: Kagutsuchi are fine examples. In this case though, the ability most likely requires skill, experience, access and creativity due to it being a Dōjutsu ability. Itachi possessed 2 or 3 out of 4.

Unfortunately, you made the unwarranted assumption that Kagutsuchi and Fūton Rasenshuriken are similar in their exertion of Keita Henka for their effects, and drew a questionable conclusion from the aforementioned cases. The analogical argument you’ve proposed considers the similarities more so than the dissimilarities, and thus does not accurately define the matter.

Kagutsuchi is a doryōku using the eye as a medium for exerting Keitai Henka to the chakra nature Enton; this in itself is a peculiarity; all other methods which apply Keitai Henka to a technique are employed by the tenketsu around the upper limbs of the body. Kagutsuchi, as a doryōku, uses the granularities of the tenketsu situated around the eye rather than tenketsu in the upper limbs in the body to apply itself to Enton. Secondly, Kagutsuchi is a Kekkei Genkai of the Uchiha, thus it itself is a technique of their Dōjutsu. That is, Kagutsuchi like Kamui is an ability of the Mangekyō Sharingan that arises within the individual; much like how Itachi’s Mangekyō Sharingan had Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi as its tenets, Obito’s Mangekyō Sharingan had two distinctive Kamui as its tenets, and Shisui’s Mangekyō Sharingan had two distinctive Kotoamatsukami as its tenets, so does Sasuke’s. For one way or another, the eyes instill within its user’s particulars powers distinct from others. The only way Itachi can have Kagutsuchi is if it was already a facet of his Mangekyō Sharingan, but there are no indications which suggest this.

 

[Waltz]

Yeah...


Sasuke never had it. The root problem grew from a failure to distinct the hypnosis: 'Tsukuyomi' from the lesser Sharingan Genjutsu and understanding how Susano'o actually surfaces. I'm wondering for the Infinite Tsukuyomi though; it seems to be a fixed type of Tsukuyomi where the caster does not control what is experienced by those subject to the Genjutsu but perhaps the Genjutsu itself functions in that particular way----much like Shisui's Kotoamatsukami however classed as Tsukuyomi for the

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. ​

 

[Bronze]

MS requirements to achieve Susanoo and not Tsukuyomi and Amatersu, doesn't contradict Sasuke's showings of Tsukuyomi. He used it on 3 occasions:

1). To control the Kumagakure Shinobi to have him reveal Killer Bee's traits.
2). He used it on Killer Bee to paralyse his movements, and colours, eye pain proves it to be Tsukuyomi.
3). Danzo notes that Sasuke's Genjutsu is poor in comparison to Itachi's, due to the space/time manipulation; and we know on highly skilled-full Tsukuyomi can achieve that feat. And also, he manipulated Danzo's perception of time.

All of these are actual evidences that Tsukuyomi was used. Not fallacy like "He didn't shout out Tsukuyomi. Or "Mangekyou: Sharingan amplifies the Genjutsu".

 

[pateuvasiliu]

I guess this quells the remnants of those believing Sasuke had Tsukuyomi while possessing the Mangekyō Sharingan.

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He uses Tsukuyomi on Bee.

Note he activates the MS despite having regular Sharingan here.

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[Frikid]

@Frikid

Many translators, especially on Naruto-Forums, have translated Danzō’s linguistics as directly comparing Sasuke’s Genjutsu to Itachi’s Tsukuyomi. He first praises Sasuke for placing a Genjutsu upon him, then belittles it by relating it to Itachi's Tsukuyomi. The whole statement arose because Danzō saw similarities between the brothers i.e. Amaterasu.

Sasuke's genjutsu have been compared with itachi's two times and the only significant difference which was pointed out was the fact that it cannot control time.

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His MS was specifically highlighted when tobi was talking about genjutsu :

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The genjutsu would obviously be weaker than itachi's superior tsukiyomi which can control time.

---

It is surprising that people still think sasuke does not have tsukiyomi.

 

[Rιver]

I have to clarify: you are aware I am speaking on Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke?

Yeah.​

The possibility receives mootness when the disparities of the doryōkus’ are considered: Tsukuyomi is the only technique that has altered a recipient’s sense of time; Sasuke’s Sharingan Genjutsu has not achieved this. All of the Genjutsu Sasuke has utilized have been standardized, binding, sleepiness, and transverse illusions.

Hm... I think we can agree on that.​

Unfortunately, you made the unwarranted assumption that Kagutsuchi and Fūton Rasenshuriken are similar in their exertion of Keita Henka for their effects, and drew a questionable conclusion from the aforementioned cases. The analogical argument you’ve proposed considers the similarities more so than the dissimilarities, and thus does not accurately define the matter.

Kagutsuchi is a doryōku using the eye as a medium for exerting Keitai Henka to the chakra nature Enton; this in itself is a peculiarity; all other methods which apply Keitai Henka to a technique are employed by the tenketsu around the upper limbs of the body. Kagutsuchi, as a doryōku, uses the granularities of the tenketsu situated around the eye rather than tenketsu in the upper limbs in the body to apply itself to Enton. Secondly, Kagutsuchi is a Kekkei Genkai of the Uchiha, thus it itself is a technique of their Dōjutsu. That is, Kagutsuchi like Kamui is an ability of the Mangekyō Sharingan that arises within the individual; much like how Itachi’s Mangekyō Sharingan had Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi as its tenets, Obito’s Mangekyō Sharingan had two distinctive Kamui as its tenets, and Shisui’s Mangekyō Sharingan had two distinctive Kotoamatsukami as its tenets, so does Sasuke’s. For one way or another, the eyes instill within its user’s particulars powers distinct from others. The only way Itachi can have Kagutsuchi is if it was already a facet of his Mangekyō Sharingan, but there are no indications which suggest this.

...

You have a point here too.​