LMAOOOSk was pk and pk was sk
Scum no matter what.
LMAOOOSk was pk and pk was sk
Scum no matter what.
To be clear, the Mafia lost the game. PK couldn't be killed by Aether, so to avoid playing out a forgone conclusion Houtarou called the game.Congrats to mafia and serial killer!
Thank you Elmage. Sorry about the kill tho. It wasn't mafia, but me.Good game guys! @-PK- is obviously the MVP, I think most would agree. I think the game went rather well, just a little banter here and there... town was all over the place though
Nice game @Houtarou and thanks for making the Elmage role OP >_> even though it wasn't used very well imo ^_^
PS: Please mafia guys, at least allow me to get to DP2 or DP3, stop killing me xD
I got absolutely no use having you in SK army for that phase. It wasn't that strong of an ability. I had to talk to someone, gain their trust and they can choose to tell me their abilities and then I could decide if I wanted to redirect them.[Active - SK Army] - Back in days lot of a number of players without a single shred of hesitation due to his status as one of the greatest players followed him. At night, he may target a player and invite them to join his army. If they accept, they will gain a private chat and may communicate the following cycle. He will control their actions during that cycle.
That's whyyyyyy!!!!!!!
SMH smh smh.
I was disappointed at your modkill tbh. I thought I could have used your trust further for an easier win. XDWas right pk was serial killed aether was mafia
Good game @-PK- You completely through me off your trail
Lmao Ryu. It sucked lynching you that way at the end but it had to be done.Sk was pk and pk was sk
Scum no matter what.
It was a calculated risk honestly. It was a slight gut feeling. I killed him taking both scenarios in mind. If he was scum it would help town survive. If he was a townie, then town didn't gain much information from his kill and would be still in the same chaos as last phase.
Thank you Oreki, for hosting and putting your effort into this.
You made beautiful characters, some of them definetly very powerful.
Sorry you had to deal with my whining, but hope you enjoyed some parts of my play maybe.
@Toujo thank you for your words.
@Michelle glad tou weren.t upset.
MVP @-PK-
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Thank you Ratchet. I like how detailed your post. Usually not a fan of wallies much. XDHmm. Well, GG @-PK-. I felt like you were by far the most deserved winner in the game. I do think you were a tad too aggressive against the Mafia, but given how hard the Town floundered for basically the entire game there is an argument to be made that your hand was forced. You can also say the same is true of the Mafia towards you, with them having burned something like 3 to 4 kills your way, when this really should have been 1, or at the very most, 2.
@Aether9 I thought you played well. In terms of your thread play I would argue yours was probably the strongest out of your Mafia faction. I feel like you were pretty unfortunate not to get the win after somehow avoiding the lynch and getting Michelle lynched. I probably should have caught on that something was up given how hard you stayed away from the thread conflict between X and I, but that's a lot easier to say in hindsight.
@SoulKiller I thought your thread play was somewhat sloppy, though you can probably argue that was intentionally so due to your plan. Speaking of your plan, I feel like it was a good one, however upon further consideration I'm not sure you were the best choice for it. With the ability to survive a lynch, the chances of you being lynched again afterwards is considerably slimmer. Town don't want to keep burning their lynches on someone who has demonstrated immunity, and given that the role is considerably more implicative when it belongs to scum over town in terms of balance, it may have even resulted in you being town read fairly strongly. That sounds good, but then you factor in the Serial, and it quickly would unwind. I can understand why you didn't pick Poison or Angulus for it, but I wonder if it would have been better to pick Aether to go head-to-head vs Michelle? He'd already laid the groundwork, and if he were lynched and flipped town, provided he set it up similarly to how you did it then I think you could have anticipated similar results to what your plan intended. I also think you made a mistake by making it the issue in Day 3. It worked in your favour, because it helped split the Town voting up, but you not voting me for self-preservation was a very strange look, and I feel fairly confident in saying if I had more time in the game, I probably would have caught on to shenanigans being afoot with that. In any case though, you were unfortunate the Serial opted to kill you when he did.
@Tigerrr in the woods I have a feeling some players are going to be fairly critical of your decision to lynch Michelle over Aether, and while I do feel you probably ought to have caught on to Aether being scum, and Michelle having her 1v1 with Soul in her favour, probably wasn't the best lynch anyway - but I wanted to say that I don't feel it's entirely fair to come down overly harshly on your play. To date, I still have no idea why so many scum read you, you were one of the reads I was most confident in being town, and I can understand that sapping your motivation. Ultimately, I don't think the game was won or lost there, and I for the most part felt you played well enough given what you were dealing with. If anyone tries to claim that you are the reason for the Town loss, I can only say I disagree with them fairly strongly.
@Rej In a similar vein to Tigerrr, I wonder if you let the highs and lows of the game emotionally get to you a little too much. I mean I get it, believe me I've been there, but towards the end it felt like you'd gone too far into the emotional side and allowed that to get the better of you a bit. Sometimes it's important to try and take a step back, maybe dial your activity down for a cycle or two, and try to regroup and gather your thoughts, taking the emotion back out of it. You started the game very well, almost too well actually if that's a thing, but I totally get not keeping that up all game. Try to take the positives from this, rather than how it ended up.
@Thestatusquo Wasn't going to say anything to you, and I haven't got much to say regardless, but I wanted to note that I'm willing to let bygones be bygones. I have no intention of holding some petty grudges over things said in what I assume was in the moment. Consider this the olive branch, though if you opt not to take it, well I won't be losing any sleep at night.
@XTMF Kind of gone over most of it already, but I wanted to note that I think the biggest error you made in regards to how you handled your push on me was your claim that you were "100% sure" I wasn't town. I think it was ultimately somewhat unfortunate, because you had an investigation that supposedly couldn't fail, and I had a passive that would make all investigations automatically fail, and having those two roles collide was probably meant to cause a mislynch somewhere, so this isn't entirely on you either. Where we differed I feel was I was open to the possibility that you were not scum, whereas I felt you overextended yourself on this, and I wish you'd have taken a step back and tried to see what I was getting at. I was kind of surprised you were killed, as I felt you were a fair lynch candidate pretty much ever since my flip (which I suspect many didn't even read, as I don't recall anyone pointing out my investigation-failing passive which should have been you "caught in a lie" so to speak).
And on the topic of not being listened to, for posterity:
It was kind of disappointing nobody revisited this, especially when Poison was up for the lynch.
@Houtarou I don't want to list out every little thing I disagreed with on the setup. So I'm going to keep it fairly general. I want to start on a positive note too. I felt like the ambition of this game was very high, and I liked how committed you were to making the individual personalities of the users shine through in their roles. I liked the concept of the post restrictions, even though some were better implemented than others. I don't know how many games you've hosted, but you did a good job in this regard making sure you were mostly always available to answer questions and queries, even in the dead chat. I certainly think you can take more positives than not from this. In regards to the things I felt just didn't quite work:
-I felt you overcompensated just a tad with the Serial role. I understand it's on its own, I consider Serial a separate scum faction rather than an Independent for that reason. And generally, they will need to be able to stand on their own. That said, you must also pay respect to the fact that various scum tells, such as a lack of scumhunting, or weird dynamics with other posters, are going to be entirely missing when it comes to the Serial, allowing them to blend with the town a lot more easily. This needs to be factored in to the role design. I counted 4 passives and 6 actives for the Serial, none of which were negative utilities. With the ability to survive a lynch, investigate as innocent and tank kills made by the Mafia, on top of yet more, I felt it was just a bit too much. At the end of the day, the game was close, and the best "faction" won, so balance wise it did the job.-Non-claiming. I'm a huge proponent of allowing claiming in games, but I tend not to hold it against hosts when they opt not to do it. I just believe game design should allow for claiming and not be broken by that. It allows for information to be put on the table, and requires skill from anti-town to fake it accordingly. I often see the sentiment that claiming games have a lower skill threshold, but that has typically speaking only been my experience when the host has failed to construct their game properly, getting broken by a mass claim. I saw, for a time, "hinting" be used as a compromise, which was always a terrible idea that either made it so obvious claiming should have been allowed from the start, or so niche and abstract the hints were basically worthless. So this isn't that. However, it felt incredibly restrictive to play this game without allowing for claiming. With so much misdirection and false positives present it truly felt like playing with one arm tied behind your back sometimes. SoulKiller's game worked as a non-claiming game, because the way he does writeups is to essentially describe who does what in the Night Phase. This means, if claiming were allowed, simply picking out all the pro-town characters that show up in the writeup, claiming them, and then lynching through the leftovers would pretty much always result in a town win. Here, with the flavour of posters being more ambiguous, there was really no such reason in place. Even if there were, fake claims could have been provided too.-In addition to the above point, I felt like there was a bit too much present that would starve the town of information, or provide them straight up false information. Mafia being able to change the alignment of a flip, Mafia being able to Janitor every. single. kill. they made (which only didn't play more of a role because they only succeeded with a couple of kills all game long), multiple scum being able to survive lynches (though I must note, I did like the percentage stack in the Serial role), a multitude of investigation immunities or misdirection, it all made it very hard for the town to play this without feeling half-blind. That's not to say the Town didn't have its own fair share of powerful roles, I'm sure the majority of them were used below their original usage expectation too, so I can't say the game was unbalanced against the town. Just that I felt the design philosophy that underpinned the scum roles lent a little too far at being anti-informative, which combined with no claiming made it feel like you were actively playing against the game sometimes.
And that's about all I have to say. I'm pretty tired typing all this out, and I doubt many if anyone will read it all, but congrats for getting here if you did. To end, I'd like to thank you for the game @Houtarou - I will be playing more games you host as there is enough in here that has impressed me, and thank you for your efforts. I hope I haven't come across as overly critical here - I think you can overall be proud of the game you created.
As I'm up next, I'll be posting signups for my A Certain Magical Index Mafia game shortly (either today, or over the next few days). However, I can read the room, so even though signups will be up quickly, I probably won't be looking to start it until the end of next week (7th August, give or take). It's a 19 player game, having grown from 14 players that it was originally supposed to be. I'm looking to make Day Phases about 72 hours long with Majority Lynch in place, which hopefully will make it less intensive for players. The setup is done, and currently being fine-tuned. I hope to see as many of you from here there, everyone is welcome. I'm open to compromise too - if you want me to start it a bit later, I can do that, earlier I can do that too (fine-tuning pending). If you want Days to be longer or shorter, I'm open to that as well. It's my first time hosting here after all, so I don't want to impress my own beliefs onto the community to the extent that it makes the game less fun for players here. Thank you!
Yeah, you're right. I don't think the role was what won this game for you, to be clear. If Town won there could probably be an argument made that they were overly stacked too. At the end of the day the best player, in my opinion, won, and every faction had a chance at winning. So in terms of balance the first and most important goal was achieved.Thank you Ratchet. I like how detailed your post. Usually not a fan of wallies much. XD
Me being aggressive towards the mafia team was down to 2 factors.
1) Me misinterpreting a writing in my role description which made me want to go and kill scum on my own so as to not lose any maliciousness.
2) Like you said my hand was forced. Until Day 5, no scum was lynched and I needed that to trim their numbers down if I wanted to win. I would have lost automatically if they achieved equity with town.
Town should feel lucky for the way I played, I gave them their only chance at winning twice. XD
I am no expert in balancing mafia games. This is probably my 6th or 7th game. Otherwise all I played was DeathNote turbos on this site. But I'd like to weigh in.
I think the Serial killer role was managed well since it was an independent faction. I'd actually argue that my own PK role (The one Soulkiller had) was probably the strongest because he and I shared a few passives such as investigation fails and being immune to regular kills. But he had 3 partners for help as well.
The setup might have seemed unfair to some due to the constant misdirections but I think it could have happened to all sides making it not that unbalanced after all. I guess slightly for town because they are uninformed but they had plenty of roles to eventually overcome those issues.
Or maybe I am missing the issues because of the way game went. There was a lot of room for unpredictability here. xD
Can I convince you to reconsider for one more game before you take that break?Well anyway I'm out of these games for a while. Will decide if I want to join any more in the future but reserve the right to choose for myself at that point. I definitely wont join any games for like a month at the least, I feel I deserve at least that month break after like 5 games in a row.
These games are extremely difficult to get into for me if I'm being quite honest, but I feel like before when I said I would be done entirely was because I was sorta upset at the time but it does hold some truth that the game is difficult for me to get into even if I can get better at it - I feel that I need to learn to enjoy the game somewhat.
I think from here on out I might limit my gameplay to about a game per month or so for the future.
This is just my honesty guys, felt it was necessary you guys know where I'm at.
Haha, I promise any other time I'd say yes. I'd even opt to saying I could be a sub, but I'm just burnt out right now (I know it doesnt seem like I'm doing much in these games, but I have some psychological warfare in my brain while playing these)Can I convince you to reconsider for one more game before you take that break?
Thank you so very much. I'm actually new to hosting, so I was worried about not being to able give the players desirable or properly explained answers to their queries. Sometimes, I went to Nova to ask him about things that I don't properly understand or can't explain properly, so I'm really grateful, he really aided me to host this game properly. You can say he was pretty much my coach this game in shadows(lol).It was kind of disappointing nobody revisited this, especially when Poison was up for the lynch.
@Houtarou I don't want to list out every little thing I disagreed with on the setup. So I'm going to keep it fairly general. I want to start on a positive note too. I felt like the ambition of this game was very high, and I liked how committed you were to making the individual personalities of the users shine through in their roles. I liked the concept of the post restrictions, even though some were better implemented than others. I don't know how many games you've hosted, but you did a good job in this regard making sure you were mostly always available to answer questions and queries, even in the dead chat. I certainly think you can take more positives than not from this. In regards to the things I felt just didn't quite work:
-I felt you overcompensated just a tad with the Serial role. I understand it's on its own, I consider Serial a separate scum faction rather than an Independent for that reason. And generally, they will need to be able to stand on their own. That said, you must also pay respect to the fact that various scum tells, such as a lack of scumhunting, or weird dynamics with other posters, are going to be entirely missing when it comes to the Serial, allowing them to blend with the town a lot more easily. This needs to be factored in to the role design. I counted 4 passives and 6 actives for the Serial, none of which were negative utilities. With the ability to survive a lynch, investigate as innocent and tank kills made by the Mafia, on top of yet more, I felt it was just a bit too much. At the end of the day, the game was close, and the best "faction" won, so balance wise it did the job.
-Non-claiming. I'm a huge proponent of allowing claiming in games, but I tend not to hold it against hosts when they opt not to do it. I just believe game design should allow for claiming and not be broken by that. It allows for information to be put on the table, and requires skill from anti-town to fake it accordingly. I often see the sentiment that claiming games have a lower skill threshold, but that has typically speaking only been my experience when the host has failed to construct their game properly, getting broken by a mass claim. I saw, for a time, "hinting" be used as a compromise, which was always a terrible idea that either made it so obvious claiming should have been allowed from the start, or so niche and abstract the hints were basically worthless. So this isn't that. However, it felt incredibly restrictive to play this game without allowing for claiming. With so much misdirection and false positives present it truly felt like playing with one arm tied behind your back sometimes. SoulKiller's game worked as a non-claiming game, because the way he does writeups is to essentially describe who does what in the Night Phase. This means, if claiming were allowed, simply picking out all the pro-town characters that show up in the writeup, claiming them, and then lynching through the leftovers would pretty much always result in a town win. Here, with the flavour of posters being more ambiguous, there was really no such reason in place. Even if there were, fake claims could have been provided too.
-In addition to the above point, I felt like there was a bit too much present that would starve the town of information, or provide them straight up false information. Mafia being able to change the alignment of a flip, Mafia being able to Janitor every. single. kill. they made (which only didn't play more of a role because they only succeeded with a couple of kills all game long), multiple scum being able to survive lynches (though I must note, I did like the percentage stack in the Serial role), a multitude of investigation immunities or misdirection, it all made it very hard for the town to play this without feeling half-blind. That's not to say the Town didn't have its own fair share of powerful roles, I'm sure the majority of them were used below their original usage expectation too, so I can't say the game was unbalanced against the town. Just that I felt the design philosophy that underpinned the scum roles lent a little too far at being anti-informative, which combined with no claiming made it feel like you were actively playing against the game sometimes.
And that's about all I have to say. I'm pretty tired typing all this out, and I doubt many if anyone will read it all, but congrats for getting here if you did. To end, I'd like to thank you for the game @Houtarou - I will be playing more games you host as there is enough in here that has impressed me, and thank you for your efforts. I hope I haven't come across as overly critical here - I think you can overall be proud of the game you created.
As I'm up next, I'll be posting signups for my A Certain Magical Index Mafia game shortly (either today, or over the next few days). However, I can read the room, so even though signups will be up quickly, I probably won't be looking to start it until the end of next week (7th August, give or take). It's a 19 player game, having grown from 14 players that it was originally supposed to be. I'm looking to make Day Phases about 72 hours long with Majority Lynch in place, which hopefully will make it less intensive for players. The setup is done, and currently being fine-tuned. I hope to see as many of you from here there, everyone is welcome. I'm open to compromise too - if you want me to start it a bit later, I can do that, earlier I can do that too (fine-tuning pending). If you want Days to be longer or shorter, I'm open to that as well. It's my first time hosting here after all, so I don't want to impress my own beliefs onto the community to the extent that it makes the game less fun for players here. Thank you!
No, his entire role was fake which includes triple vote count lol.Looking at the Dragomir role I am glad mafia with their very limited kills performed that one. That triple vote could have been harmful.