Analysis: Who the manga says is the strongest Hokage...

[MrLukyso]

I admit he was strong, the strongest of the Kages, but.. Hashirama is the man. Live with it dude and admit it don't be a fanboy of Hiruzen, PEACE.

 

[Omnislash X SageMode]

other than the issue of regarding a creator of an anime "god" and his words are absolute lol you have a point but its not exactly saying anyones right yet.....but like most are saying you deserve ur rep but not the negativity i guess

 

[-Broly-]

The manga is clearly saying hiruzen is the strongest idk how anyone else could interpret it

 

[Saiyan Kammy]

Let's look and see what the manga and databooks say about who the strongest hokage is.

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Quite clearly, we can see Iruka say that Hiruzen was the strongest Hokage. Clearly.

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Page 265: "The Third is called the strongest, even among the past Hokage, and he is even admired as the 'God of Shinobi'." (「三代目は歴代火影の中でも最強と� �� �� ��われ、„忍の神”と謳われたこ� � �も 。」, "Sandaime wa rekidai Hokage no naka demo saikyō to iware, 'Shinobi no Kami' to utawareta koto mo")

Hashirama:

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"Consider him a fairy tale like the Rikudo Sennin".
What does this mean? It means people could not believe there was a shinobi so powerful. It doesn't mean he was as strong as or anywhere near the So6P's level.
If Hiruzen was said to be the strongest Hokage (which was clearly and undeniably stated in the manga), it just means: So6P > Hiruzen > Hashirama. This goes nicely with his title as "God of Shinobi" but people always choose to ignore or disregard this title. He knew so many techniques, but was labelled "God of Shinobi". Why?

Kabuto then goes onto say:
"There aren't ninjas on the same level of the first Hokage Hashirama Senju anymore. "
What does this mean? Key word in this statement is 'ANYMORE' - Why is it the key word? Because it implies that there WERE people at his level - Namely, Hiruzen in his prime (who was clearly and undeniably stated in the manga as being the strongest hokage.

Here's a page people love to bring up:

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All this shows is that he was the strongest at that time. It doesn't take into account all the shinobi who came after that time, including Hiruzen. Unless you're suggesting people of that time could see into the future?

People seem to ignore the fact that Hiruzen defeated both the first and second Hokages at age 69, yonks after his prime years. So already, even if you have your suspicions about that fight, you were not watching the Hiruzen who was famed for his strength. Another point people try to use is that that fight didn't reflect the true powers of Hashirama and Tobirama (that they were nerfed), even though Orochimaru perfect Edo Tensei (the same level as Kabuto's). That is true. The power levels in part 1 & 2 were different so clearly it just didn't reflect Hiruzen's ability fairly either. Moreover, Hiruzen defeated them in his old age - He was strongest in his prime (which was clearly and undeniably stated in the manga).

'Enma commented on his battle with Orochimaru, saying that it was "miserable" compared to his prime, even though he had clearly been able to hold his own against Orochimaru and two former Hokage without losing his composure.'
So even though he defeated the previous two Hokages, his own summoning labelled him as POOR COMPARED TO HIS PRIME.

KEY POINT: People ASSUME that Kishi has changed his mind in regards to who is the strongest or the plot. Do you have Proof? Evidence? Anything? Or just your subjective, opinionated thoughts? Because when debating about these kind of things, objective FACTS are the only things which have any value.

Lets have a quick peak at the data book entries:

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Even if you point out that Iruka could have some bias or that characters that have stated this don't know anything, Kishimoto himself says in every databook that Hiruzen in his prime was the most powerful Hokage. In the first databook alone, this is stated at least three times:

Page 117: "He is such a genius ninja that he was even called the 'Professor', and he still garners everyone's respect as the strongest Hokage in history." (「„プロフェッサー”と呼ばれたほ� �� ��の天才忍者であり、歴代最強の� �影 として皆の尊敬を集め続ける。」, "'Purofessā' to yobareta hodo no tensai ninja de ari, rekidai saikyō no Hokage toshite mina no sonkei o atsume tsuzukeru")

Page 119: "'Strongest in history', 'genius', et cetera, the words used to describe the Third Hokage are filled with respect." (「„歴代最強”„天才”など、三代� �� ��火影を形容する言葉は賞賛に満� �て いる。」, "'Rekidai saikyō' 'tensai' nado, Sandaime Hokage o keiyōsuru kotoba wa shōsan ni michite iru.")

Page 265: "The Third is called the strongest, even among the past Hokage, and he is even admired as the 'God of Shinobi'." (「三代目は歴代火影の中でも最強と� �� ��われ、„忍の神”と謳われたこ� �も 。」, "Sandaime wa rekidai Hokage no naka demo saikyō to iware, 'Shinobi no Kami' to utawareta koto mo")

Being old=/= being irrelevant. Both the 2nd AND the 3rd databook state the same thing.

These words are clear and impossible to misinterperet.

In the databook, he achieved 5's in Ninjutsu, Taijutsu and Genjutsu. FACT. All he is missing is speed, stamina, and strength which declined greatly with age, as mentioned by himself, orochimaru and Enma.

Some people have also got it in their head that Minato could be the strongest Hokage. Let's take a look:

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What's important here is that these words are not clear and are easily interpreted differently by lots of people. It is not clear as with Hiruzen who was clearly stated as the strongest Hokage. But let's take a look nonetheless. What does unrivalled mean? Look at it this way:

If you are the best basketball player in 2012, does that mean your rival is Michael Jordan (who retired in 2003)? No. Your rival will be another awsome basketball player who also plays in 2012. With Minato, does him being unrivalled suggest no shinobi ever were on his level? Or does it suggest no shinobi DURING his time were on his level? Prime Hiruzen was not during his time. As I said, this can be interpreted in many ways, but i'm sure 90% of sane people will realise that Minato was not stated as the strongest Hokage.

You can talk all day about 'Hiruzen can't beat him', 'Hiruzen can't counter this', but at the end of the day, these are just your opinion. we must look at FACTS in the databook and manga. You don't need to see Hiruzen in his prime if the manga states he was the strongest. Unless you believe the manga is wrong?
This isn't about 'Hiruzen (prime) can defeat Hashirama' or 'Hiruzen (prime) can defeat Itachi'. This is not a vs thread. It is to point out that, at this current moment in time, the author has clearly and undeniably hyped Hiruzen to be the strongest Hokage. You cannot argue with the author.

Let me just say that its Kishimoto himself that has given Hiruzen the reputation he has, through statements in the manga. And you can't claim that the creator of the Narutoverse is wrong, his word is law, he is god in that world. When Kishimoto says "he is this", no-one can say anything against it. There are very few characters in the whole manga that have been given a reputation even close to Hiruzens, by Kishimoto. You can argue all you like about 'I wanna see feats', but if the author himself has shown Hiruzen to be the strongest Hokage in the manga through word alone this cannot be argued with.​

Hashirama is the Strongest Hokage

 

[UzumakiNaruto20]

The manga is clearly saying hiruzen is the strongest idk how anyone else could interpret it

The manga also says that Hashirama and Minato are the strongest. This is obvious trolling by Kishi who is doing it on purpose.

If he had only ever made this statement about one Kage then there would be no debate:shrug:

 

[Prince Charles]

The manga is clearly saying hiruzen is the strongest idk how anyone else could interpret it

that is true but theirs a possibility that kishi just simply changed his mind?
he probably never excepted the future of how strong and how he will introduce new characters compare the power of bm naruto and part 1 naruto? plys kishi has contradicted himself many times and over hyped people alot.

 

[Lamar941]

The manga is clearly saying hiruzen is the strongest idk how anyone else could interpret it

They cannot at all. They "assumed" that Kishi changed what he is saying and act like it was a fact, but no one can show an Interview where he changed his Mind. Others just don't want to believe so they believe what they want their own assumptions

 

[kellzfresh]

I think kabuto said hiruzen was the strongest of the five hokage's but he said nobody is as strong as hashirama anymore....

 

[TheSages456]

naruto manga contradicts itself just like every other manga. do you really think kishi had thought up of rikudo sennin when he hyped up hiruzen? he probably thought up of the sage later in the manga and most likely reused the god of shinobi nickname because of course the sage was a god. someone is going to say why isnt kishi pumping out databooks changing the stats of hiruzen. it is because hiruzen is so irrelevant to the story it isnt even funny. you have to wonder when a character is in trouble they dont say "if only hiruzen was here". they talk about legends like hashirama. in the real translation kabuto said that hashirama was the one with the most power comparable to the sage not a fairy tail. when hiruzen gets hype like that then this can become a debate.

 

[Midday]

Kishi said it's the 3rd it's him, how much clearer does it have to be. Currently he's just hyping up the 1st's abilities to show that he was a boss which doesn't automatically make him stronger.

 

[FvR92]

i think for this you have to go by accomplishments really hiruzen was definitly great but the strongest hokage? i cant agree with that because of hashirama and thats because of what he accomplished so lets compare.

Hashirama - Fought kurama (at full power) and Madara at the same time and won defeating madara and sealing the 9 tales single handedly

Hiruzen - Fought Kurama (at full power) managed to expell him from the vilage, but that was it hiruzen couldnt combat kurama the way hashirama did and hiruzen could not seal him also during this battle Hiruzen had the support of countless other leaf shinobi

so if that isnt enough proof Hasirama is the strongest hokage and much stronger than Hiruzen idk what else you need

 

[RAMKAD]

Just because u rant dont make u right and power means shit in naruto at least before shippuden. And this fact nonsense its a work of fiction so the plot as flexible as air.

 

[Panhead]

O Dear.

Like Kids in a playground.
Really is Pitiful,
A Guy puts across his facts that he's found, And every man and his dog flames the hell outta him. Dead good forum, Kids need to learn to grow up,
Keyboard warriors need to go back to school and learn some manners.

 

[Prince Charles]

Kishi said it's the 3rd it's him, how much clearer does it have to be. Currently he's just hyping up the 1st's abilities to show that he was a boss which doesn't automatically make him stronger.

maybe he had a change of mind?

 

[Ryuu..]

If no-one else has anything to add then i'm going to close this thread.

 

[GenKiDama]

i would not include the first part of this show, its just a major plot hole really, they didn't even have the art for the MS sharingan, and they made hashirama looked pityfully weak, possibly because oro was controlling them but probs another plot hole, also hashirama had 7 tailed beasts under his control, and you think that the third has anything over that?

 

[Ryuu..]

Closed.