Forbidden Tale
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That's only a theory, and theory only Albanians support, there is no proof.
Albania became a Candidate for EU
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dark legion
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. what did I say about religion ?!!! .. u're drunk like your ava . as for Europeans . they created EU .. its stupid if they don't have the chance to join it ... no matter if they killed people in last 500 years . turkey wont have special treatment just cuz they have a huge territory ...
Well, you just proved you talk nonsense.
I know the history of my country. You are nobody to judge. Talk about your own country. The culture of Pelasgs, their language and all prove the opposite of your point.
Pelasgs never came to Balkan, they were always there.
Greeks and Ilirs were in Balkan way before the slavs. That is history, that is a fact.
And no, not only Albanians state this correct "theory" :
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Yeah, pelasgs were here before Greeks, but Albanians being the descendants of pelasgs is debatable.
"In 1854, an Austrian diplomat and Albanian language specialist, Johann Georg von Hahn, identified the Pelasgian language with Ur-Albanian. This theory has been rejected by modern scholars but is still supported by Albanian nationalists"
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Arguments for the Illyrian origin
The national name Albania is derived from Albanoi, an Illyrian tribe mentioned by Ptolemy about 150 AD.
From what is known from the old Balkan populations territories (Greeks, Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians), the Albanian language is spoken in the same region where Illyrian was spoken in ancient times.
There is no evidence of any major migration into Albanian territory since the records of Illyrian occupation.
Many of what remain as attested words to Illyrian have an Albanian explanation and also a number of Illyrian lexical items (toponyms, hydronyms, oronyms, anthroponyms, etc.) have been linked to Albanian.
Words borrowed from Greek (e.g. Gk (NW) "device, instrument" mākhaná > *mokër "millstone" Gk (NW) drápanon > *drapër "sickle" etc.) date back before the Christian era[50] and are mostly of the Doric Greek dialect, which means that the ancestors of the Albanians were in contact with the northwestern part of Ancient Greek civilization and probably borrowed words from Greek cities (Dyrrachium, Apollonia, etc.) in the Illyrian territory, colonies which belonged to the Doric division of Greek, or from contacts in the Epirus area.
Words borrowed from Latin (e.g. Latin aurum > ar "gold", gaudium > gaz "joy" etc.) date back before the Christian era,while the Illyrians on the territory of modern Albania were the first from the old Balkan populations to be conquered by Romans in 229–167 BC, the Thracians were conquered in 45 AD and the Dacians in 106 AD.
The ancient Illyrian place-names of the region have achieved their current form following Albanian phonetic rules e.g. Durrachion > Durrës (with the Albanian initial accent) Aulona > Vlonë~Vlorë (with rhotacism) Scodra > Shkodra etc.
The characteristics of the Albanian dialects Tosk and Geg in the treatment of the native and loanwords from other languages, have led to the conclusion that the dialectal split preceded the Slavic migration to the Balkans which means that in that period (5th to 6th century AD) Albanians were occupying pretty much the same area around Shkumbin riverwhich straddled the Jirecek line.
Arguments against Illyrian origin
The theory of an Illyrian origin of the Albanians is challenged on archaeological and linguistic grounds.
Although the Illyrian tribe of the Albanoi and the place Albanopolis could be located near Krujë, nothing proves a relation of this tribe to the Albanians, whose name appears for the first time in the 11th century in Byzantine sources
According to linguist Vladimir I. Georgiev, the theory of an Illyrian origin for the Albanians is weakened by a lack of any Albanian names before the 12th century and the relative absence of Greek influence that would surely be present if the Albanians inhabited their homeland continuously since ancient times. According to Georgiev if the Albanians originated near modern-day Albania, the number of Greek loanwords in the Albanian language should be higher.
According to Georgiev, although some Albanian toponyms descend from Illyrian, Illyrian toponyms from antiquity have not changed according to the usual phonetic laws applying to the evolution of Albanian. Furthermore, placenames can be a special case and the Albanian language more generally has not been proven to be of Illyrian stock.
Many linguists have tried to link Albanian with Illyrian, but without clear results. Albanian belongs to the satem group within Indo-European language tree, while there is a debate whether Illyrian was centum or satem. On the other hand, Dacian and Thracianseem to belong to satem. However, more recent research suggests that there was a process of satemization by which non-satem languages slowly acquired characteristics, and this characteristic has found parallels in the modern development of many Western European languages.[citation needed]
There is a lack of clear archaeological evidence for a continuous settlement of an Albanian-speaking population since Illyrian times. For example, while Albanians scholars maintain that the Komani-Kruja burial sites support the Illyrian-Albanian continuity theory, most scholars reject this and consider that the remains indicate a population of Romanized Illyrians who spoke a Romance language.
Rufus ShinRa
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Six Paths
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I made this thread just to let people know that the future of my country could change and we go again arguing about how it was. It is true that historians don't know for sure whether Pelasgs are the ancestors of Illyrians, but their language is very similar, they have lived in the same territory. And the facts call more to it then against.
Forbidden Tale
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Meh, meh...
1. In a sense, they came to Balkan, since people originaly are from Africa.
2. Again there is no fact.
3. You didn't even come with this theory, some Sweden scientist/archeologist come with there and you accepted it, since you though it is cool.
Joe Black said something i would say, so i will not bother. And you even say that it's debetable, it just show that there is no proof and you talking about that like it is fact.
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People are not from Africa. They are all from Laurasia and Gondwana, by your logic.
People are from different oplaces. Africa didn't just magically have people. You made me laugh.
I never knew a swedish scientist came up with that theory. Unlike your population, maybe mine knows the history of their country. Stop spewing bullshit.
I never said it was debatable. I told Joe that he did a good job trying to prove otherwise. Once again, stop spewing bullshit.
It's not debatable to me, not a bit.
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Six Paths
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You don't live in Albania, If you would live you would understand the importance to all of us, I don't care what they do ultimately. Since I hope that till that time I will be done with all the trouble in europe.
If you think that eurocrats will solve your contry proplem, then you are wrong. Its not a coincidence that economic growth in EU zone is the lowest in whole civilized world, hell, my country was developing faster before we became part of EU in 2004. Basically, most of eurocrats are idiots. For example: Greece has huge debt, right? How EU is trying to "help"? They give loans, which only increases Greece debt. Its obvious for any logical person, but not for them.
Forbidden Tale
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1. Mankind and Gondwana didn't exist at the same time.
2. You don't know your history, you are just fooling yourself. I'm going with facts, i don't use any theories, even thought they are many of them.
3. If it's not debatable to you and since you can't accept others opinions you shouldn't debate in the first place. Actually you should use mere facts in debate.
1. It was a joke.
2. I do know it. Worry less about that. What facts did you show? That Slavs came to Balkan in the 6th century? Well, Illyrians were there earlier. There are multiple facts that Albanians are their descendants on Joe's posts. Culture, language, names and even clothing.
3. And you're not using facts. As long as you refuse to accept my opinions, so will I.
Your so called "facts" are not found on your posts. Even though we're talking based on opinions, I know more of my country than you do.
Plus, if you really hate debating with me, please leave.
2. I do know it. Worry less about that. What facts did you show? That Slavs came to Balkan in the 6th century? Well, Illyrians were there earlier. There are multiple facts that Albanians are their descendants on Joe's posts. Culture, language, names and even clothing.
3. And you're not using facts. As long as you refuse to accept my opinions, so will I.
Your so called "facts" are not found on your posts. Even though we're talking based on opinions, I know more of my country than you do.
Plus, if you really hate debating with me, please leave.
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Forbidden Tale
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I don't worry at all. Don't even try to deny something like "Slavic at Balkan at 6th/7th centry", i didn't say that Illyrians weren't there, i just don't see reason to believe that Albanians are descendant of Illyris.
Language is different:
You get what I'm talking about right? Slavics are on Balkan from the period of 6th/7th centry, generally known proof, and that's what i'm using, you are using theory. No metter how much it sounds plausible, it's a theory (great example, here on NB were a lot of plausible theories, but they failed in the end).
If you really are their descedents you would know at least something about that, you don't even have some document that would say something like that, or some ancient temple, or anything like that. In fact, you didn't even come with that theory (i don't want to sound rude, but you didn't even have a clue about that), some Swedish scinetist come with that.
I wouldn't bother in the first place, if you didn't say "Ironic, seeing as the Albanians have been in Balkan for way longer than the slavs." and as i said you don't have proof to cover that and you behave like it is.
After all, you are free to believe whatever you want, and I'm ok with that, i just didn't like you attitude about your statements. If you think like that, you think, i do not care, just don't behave like it is facts.
Language is different:
Clothing is part of the culture and you can accept culture from other people that's nothing new.
You get what I'm talking about right? Slavics are on Balkan from the period of 6th/7th centry, generally known proof, and that's what i'm using, you are using theory. No metter how much it sounds plausible, it's a theory (great example, here on NB were a lot of plausible theories, but they failed in the end).
If you really are their descedents you would know at least something about that, you don't even have some document that would say something like that, or some ancient temple, or anything like that. In fact, you didn't even come with that theory (i don't want to sound rude, but you didn't even have a clue about that), some Swedish scinetist come with that.
I wouldn't bother in the first place, if you didn't say "Ironic, seeing as the Albanians have been in Balkan for way longer than the slavs." and as i said you don't have proof to cover that and you behave like it is.
After all, you are free to believe whatever you want, and I'm ok with that, i just didn't like you attitude about your statements. If you think like that, you think, i do not care, just don't behave like it is facts.
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