Affirmative Action in Higher Education.

[Forest]

My friend you contradict yourself so badly here. "And that wasn't reparation, the western European powers thought they were fixing a problem" you defined a reparation and said that it is not what it meant? Isnt reparation the fixing/ mending of a problem or issue cia root word "Repair" And the two birds with one stone comment, makes it seem even more to me that if a reparation is done in favor of a European nations interests it is justifiable. I am not making assumptions just correlations based on what you said

 

[Germanicus]

My friend you contradict yourself so badly here. "And that wasn't reparation, the western European powers thought they were fixing a problem" you defined a reparation and said that it is not what it meant? Isnt reparation the fixing/ mending of a problem or issue cia root word "Repair" And the two birds with one stone comment, makes it seem even more to me that if a reparation is done in favor of a European nations interests it is justifiable. I am not making assumptions just correlations based on what you said

Reparations, note the capitol "R" here, is also a formal term for the whites making up for slavery. The Reparations I was referring to in the first place, on topic with the damn thread. I, in no way, ever mentioned Israel. That isn't reparation. Anyone who believes that's reparation is a fool. Secondly, your correlations are poorly founded. The two birds with one stone wasn't reparation related at all. The Jews wanted to leave. The Europeans wanted the Jews to leave. They weren't trying to "repair" anything. You're diluting the facts to force fit them to your own argument.

 

[Forest]

Look up what is factual "The Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany" and tell me that I am the fool once more

 

[Germanicus]

Look up what is factual "The Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany" and tell me that I am the fool once more

Bah, unrelated. Payed them for labor and persecution during the Holocaust. Still not the reparations I was talking about, in any case. Has nothing to do with why they were granted land or why they receive aid today. I said it before, so I'll drop it again; fool. Not even related to your original complaint about Israel in the first place. A second time; fool.

 

[Jack Spicer]

Look up what is factual "The Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany" and tell me that I am the fool once more

Why do you write in big blue letters?

#StaphIt

 

[Germanicus]

Why do you write in big blue letters?

#StaphIt

Thank you, for god's sake that's irritating font.

 

[Forest]

Bah, unrelated. Payed them for labor and persecution during the Holocaust. Still not the reparations I was talking about, in any case. Has nothing to do with why they were granted land or why they receive aid today. I said it before, so I'll drop it again; fool. Not even related to your original complaint about Israel in the first place. A second time; fool.

Really hate quoting myself but. "tht received billions in foreign aid from countries around the world" it wasn't a complaint but a point of argument. Their reparations received from the world , in specifically the euros were and. Still to some extent significant I don't see how you can deny that

 

[Germanicus]

Really hate quoting myself but. "tht received billions in foreign aid from countries around the world" it wasn't a complaint but a point of argument. Their reparations received from the world , in specifically the euros were and. Still to some extent significant I don't see how you can deny that

Uggh, listen and listen well. Those aren't reparations smart one. The term could only be used to cover the money paid by West Germany for the effects of the Holocaust. They receive that aid for a simple reason; they're the bastion of Christianity and Judaism, and the countries who support Israel's claim to Jerusalem reinforce that with money. You really don't know much about current world affairs, do you? We also give aid to orphans and the poor. Are those reparations too, smart one?

 

[Jack Spicer]

Thank you, for god's sake that's irritating font.

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[Forest]

Uggh, listen and listen well. Those aren't reparations smart one. The term could only be used to cover the money paid by West Germany for the effects of the Holocaust. They receive that aid for a simple reason; they're the bastion of Christianity and Judaism, and the countries who support Israel's claim to Jerusalem reinforce that with money. You really don't know much about current world affairs, do you? We also give aid to orphans and the poor. Are those reparations too, smart one?

Dude... Don't try to deny history and cover up past mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes, look the holocaust happened in a different world and ociety, same thing with slavery. We are now expiriencing the aftermath of those attrocities, of the faults of both ancestors, whether european or african,jewish, mainly european,but whatever. Don't deny history no matter how ugly it m look. Thath whole situation was a reparation for the jewish people who happened to suffer from the holocaust and expirienced prejudice,just because it wasn't labelled as Ljewish reparation" doesn'tmean it can't be called a reparation. just as how blacks received theirs, an eye for an eye does not even pertain to that, cause if it did blacks would enslave whites and jews would comt genocide on germans, which is fantasy like. Face it the world still suffers from massive prejudices on both sides. These reparations are put in place to help ease those tensions, to claim reverse racism is rediculous though, especialy since blacks fought 100 years just trying to be recognized as human beings / citizens. But then again everyone is entitled to their own opinion, sorry if I bugged u enjoyd argueing even tho we cud not settle this- tired get back 2 this later

 

[Germanicus]

Dude... Don't try to deny history and cover up past mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes, look the holocaust happened in a different world and ociety, same thing with slavery. We are now expiriencing the aftermath of those attrocities, of the faults of both ancestors, whether european or african,jewish, mainly european,but whatever. Don't deny history no matter how ugly it m look. Thath whole situation was a reparation for the jewish people who happened to suffer from the holocaust and expirienced prejudice,just because it wasn't labelled as Ljewish reparation" doesn'tmean it can't be called a reparation. just as how blacks received theirs, an eye for an eye does not even pertain to that, cause if it did blacks would enslave whites and jews would comt genocide on germans, which is fantasy like. Face it the world still suffers from massive prejudices on both sides. These reparations are put in place to help ease those tensions, to claim reverse racism is rediculous though, especialy since blacks fought 100 years just trying to be recognized as human beings / citizens. But then again everyone is entitled to their own opinion, sorry if I bugged u enjoyd argueing even tho we cud not settle this- tired get back 2 this later

First off, I will say I enjoyed arguing this too. I am, however, a naturally ticked off person, and if I sounded mad, I was. But it's nothing against you. But I'm just saying; it's not reparation from western europe and the United States for one simple reason. The United States, Britain, and several other European countries who actively support Israel did not persecute the Jews during the Holocaust. That was the Germans, and there were a few Eastern European countries who had no choice because of Germany. Why would we pay reparations when we did nothing wrong? The reason for support is one, to support the country which gives us access to the Christian and Jewish holy land, and two, regrettably, as a buffer to the state of Palestine which would resume as another, presumably Western hostile, Islamic nation. I'm not denying history. History is just more complicated than what could be made from the obvious, humane assumptions. But I doubt I'll change your mind on that. So I have nothing really else to say. Good day to you. Fortune favor.

 

[Wang]

Look up what is factual "The Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany" and tell me that I am the fool once more

You're a fool. A big, blue, annoying fool.

 

[Forest]

You're a fool. A big, blue, annoying fool.

so sorry to here you think that of me

 

[Umari Senju]

Reparation is in no way just. Remember, the civil rights movements were for equality, not reverse racism. "Eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind".

well said, Germanicus. Equality is about EQUAL rights for all (including white people) It's true my people were oppressed for nearly 500 years, but I am in no way going to hold the decendants of slave owners in contempt for what happened to my ancestors. It isn't right nor should it be tolerated by any culture.

back to the subject at hand. I still stand firmly in my opinion about not having Affirmative Action delagate who can and cannot be admitted to a school of higher education. The funny thing about it is if Affirmative Action really wants to make some waves they should look early on to grade schools and kindergarden. Education starts with the young. They should be working to make sure all enthnicities have an equal opportunity to be admitted into grade schools with the best source materials. This in turn will breed innovation in the minds of young blacks, Asains, Latins, Natives, etc. With better learning materials, classes, and teachers, they may have the academic requirements needed to qualify for the more prestigous schools of higher learning.

 

[Germanicus]

well said, Germanicus. Equality is about EQUAL rights for all (including white people) It's true my people were oppressed for nearly 500 years, but I am in no way going to hold the decendants of slave owners in contempt for what happened to my ancestors. It isn't right nor should it be tolerated by any culture.

back to the subject at hand. I still stand firmly in my opinion about not having Affirmative Action delagate who can and cannot be admitted to a school of higher education. The funny thing about it is if Affirmative Action really wants to make some waves they should look early on to grade schools and kindergarden. Education starts with the young. They should be working to make sure all enthnicities have an equal opportunity to be admitted into grade schools with the best source materials. This in turn will breed innovation in the minds of young blacks, Asains, Latins, Natives, etc. With better learning materials, classes, and teachers, they may have the academic requirements needed to qualify for the more prestigous schools of higher learning.

You bring up a good mark, which I also had talked about recently; the illusion of the "achievement gap". If we could eliminate the standardized test-happy system we have today and actually arm all people, regardless of background, with the proper education they deserve in primary school, the system would benefit everyone on a much higher level. If you have time, I would recommend the book "Multiplication is for White People" (legitimately the title) by Lisa Delpit. It goes heavily into this subject and is quite interesting.

 

[ImmaculateShadow]

This entire thread reeks of ...

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OK SO — WHITE PRIVILEGE In critical race theory, white privilege is a way of conceptualizing racial inequalities that focuses as much on the advantages that white people accrue from society as on the disadvantages that people of color experience. White privilege may be defined as the "unearned advantages of being White in a racially stratified society", and has been characterized as an expression of institutional power that is largely unacknowledged by most White individuals. Most such theories focus on American and European societal condition, since inequality between whites and non-whites is a long-standing feature of these academic areas.

White privilege differs from conditions of overt racism or prejudice, in which a dominant group actively seeks to oppress or suppress other racial groups for its own advantage. Instead, theories of white privilege suggest that whites view their social, cultural, and economic experiences as a norm that everyone should experience, rather than as an advantaged position that must be maintained at the expense of others. It is argued that this normative assumption implicitly constrains discussions of racial inequality within the dominant discourse: such explanations are limited to factors specific to disadvantaged racial groups - who are viewed as having failed to achieve the norm - and solutions focus on what can be done to help those groups achieve the 'normal' standards experienced by whites.

In essence, theories of white privilege assert that discourses on racial inequality do not truly discuss differences between white and non-white social status, but only discuss the failure of non-white groups to achieve normal social status, effectively turning race into an issue that does not involve whites. In this sense it is similar to confirmation biases and the fundamental attribution error in social psychology.

Caucasian people have white privilege and there for are not in any danger — to be in danger you need to be oppressed.

THANKS! :hey:

PS — if your white and think you have an opinion that essentially negates or solves racial history, then this is basically you —

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[Germanicus]

This entire thread reeks of ...

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OK SO — WHITE PRIVILEGE In critical race theory, white privilege is a way of conceptualizing racial inequalities that focuses as much on the advantages that white people accrue from society as on the disadvantages that people of color experience. White privilege may be defined as the "unearned advantages of being White in a racially stratified society", and has been characterized as an expression of institutional power that is largely unacknowledged by most White individuals. Most such theories focus on American and European societal condition, since inequality between whites and non-whites is a long-standing feature of these academic areas.

White privilege differs from conditions of overt racism or prejudice, in which a dominant group actively seeks to oppress or suppress other racial groups for its own advantage. Instead, theories of white privilege suggest that whites view their social, cultural, and economic experiences as a norm that everyone should experience, rather than as an advantaged position that must be maintained at the expense of others. It is argued that this normative assumption implicitly constrains discussions of racial inequality within the dominant discourse: such explanations are limited to factors specific to disadvantaged racial groups - who are viewed as having failed to achieve the norm - and solutions focus on what can be done to help those groups achieve the 'normal' standards experienced by whites.

In essence, theories of white privilege assert that discourses on racial inequality do not truly discuss differences between white and non-white social status, but only discuss the failure of non-white groups to achieve normal social status, effectively turning race into an issue that does not involve whites. In this sense it is similar to confirmation biases and the fundamental attribution error in social psychology.

Caucasian people have white privilege and there for are not in any danger — to be in danger you need to be oppressed.

THANKS! :hey:

PS — if your white and think you have an opinion that essentially negates or solves racial history, then this is basically you —

You must be registered for see images

1. Is this your response to everything? I've read this so many times it hurts.
2.There are plenty of white people from under privileged socio-economic backgrounds, race has nothing to do with it. What race you are born to has no effect on the amount of wealth your family had at the time of your conception and upbringing. There are countless amounts of non-white people who are successful and live these same "white privilege" lives you are describing.
3. You offer no real solution to this "white privilege" you seem to hold so close to your heart. You just toss it around as a derogatory to white people who actually seem to think we are allowed to talk about race. Hung up on the past much, Immaculate?

 

[ImmaculateShadow]

1. Is this your response to everything? I've read this so many times it hurts.

Germanicus ... seriously. This is the second time I've posted it. And it's completely relevant. Glad to know you read it though!

White people have privilege that people of color do not, what else do I have to say? This automatically negates the idea that Affirmative Action isn't needed.

2.There are plenty of white people from under privileged socio-economic backgrounds, race has nothing to do with it. What race you are born to has no effect on the amount of wealth your family had at the time of your conception and upbringing. There are countless amounts of non-white people who are successful and live these same "white privilege" lives you are describing.

It's true that there are white poor people — but that doesn't negate their whiteness. Which means that they are born with a privilege that people of color are not born with. I think I've made what that privilege is clear by now. If not just let me know.

3. You offer no real solution to this "white privilege" you seem to hold so close to your heart. You just toss it around as a derogatory to white people who actually seem to think we are allowed to talk about race. Hung up on the past much, Immaculate?

There is no solution to white privilege — you just have to check the fact that you have it and may be ignoring it.

That's it really. Think about it for a second. White people are, most of the time, raised by white people and are not told that they have privilege when in fact they do. So they are raised to ignore what they are innately born with.

Just be conscious of what you say, think, read, write and do if you are white. Because you could be exercising your white privilege with out knowing it.

And by the way I'm white and I'm talking about race right now — I'm just aware of the fact that I have white privilege.

As far as the past goes — American slavery, Jim Crow laws, racial profiling, inherited poverty, income discrimination & minorities as the carriers of financial/labor burdens — none of that is far away in the past. It's all still here if you are willing to look.

— Thanks

 

[Germanicus]

Germanicus ... seriously. This is the second time I've posted it. And it's completely relevant. Glad to know you read it though!

White people have privilege that people of color do not, what else do I have to say? This automatically negates the idea that Affirmative Action isn't needed.


It's true that there are white poor people — but that doesn't negate their whiteness. Which means that they are born with a privilege that people of color are not born with. I think I've made what that privilege is clear by now. If not just let me know.

There is no solution to white privilege — you just have to check the fact that you have it and may be ignoring it.

That's it really. Think about it for a second. White people are, most of the time, raised by white people and are not told that they have privilege when in fact they do. So they are raised to ignore what they are innately born with.

Just be conscious of what you say, think, read, write and do if you are white. Because you could be exercising your white privilege with out knowing it.

And by the way I'm white and I'm talking about race right now — I'm just aware of the fact that I have white privilege.

As far as the past goes — American slavery, Jim Crow laws, racial profiling, inherited poverty, income discrimination & minorities as the carriers of financial/labor burdens — none of that is far away in the past. It's all still here if you are willing to look.

— Thanks

So you're trying to tell me that because my people have been privileged in the past and that we have oppressed minorities, again, in the past, that we have some magical protection granted to us by being white in this day and age? Backed up with no real evidence, the closest thing being past policies which have all been eradicated and reversed to the best of the government's ability? Okay, okay. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying completely. Prove to me that I'm privileged over someone with the same background socio-economically, middle class in case you were wondering. If what you say is true that should be easy.

 

[ImmaculateShadow]

So you're trying to tell me that because my people have been privileged in the past and that we have oppressed minorities, again, in the past, that we have some magical protection granted to us by being white in this day and age?

Our race Germanicus. Our race.

And yes, yes we do. But it's far from magical — it's cultural.

Backed up with no real evidence, the closest thing being past policies which have all been eradicated and reversed to the best of the government's ability? Okay, okay. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying completely. Prove to me that I'm privileged over someone with the same background socio-economically, middle class in case you were wondering. If what you say is true that should be easy.

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— cheers