>How do you know Sasuke isn't just paying homage to Indra when it's known he has pride for his heritage. How would Sasuke even know Indra has the technique.
TheSages456 answered this. Naruto vs Sasuke are in parallel to Ashura vs Indra. Author makes Naruto's avatar look exactly like Ashura's, and he names Sasuke's strongest Jutsu after Indra. Again, this isn't English Literature. Basic understanding of content.
>The problem with this battle is Indra is near featless, so other aspects like speed can come into play.
Doesn't matter. Can Iruka beat featless Hamura? No. Author gave us enough stated feats that Indra can use which molests Sasuke.
>The chakra/power he get from his father is very degrated and Indra was pretty much human based on his appearence. and by your logic Madara should've had weaker chakra than all the other incarnates before him bar indra perhaps, but that's obviously not the case as he was the first Uchiha to obtain MS and was noted to be the most powerful Uchiha. So again Indra has little feats going for him.
:lol Fam, do you know genetic inheritance? This is something 9th grade students take. You should have paid attention in class. Indra would inherit at least half of his father's Chakra in qualitative and quantities terms. It's not degraded in any shape. Yes, Madara's Chakra is lesser and weaker than the incarnates before him, because each incarnate is embodied with a Chakra that has devolved over time; the length between each incarnate is at least 50-100 years, giving how much older Madara is to Sasuke.
>Portrayal also helps Sasuke, because the power of the rinnegan in an og wielder>power of the sharingan according to the manga. Hagoromo said himself that mixing his two son's chakra makes the person closer to him by awakening the Rinnegan/Rikoudo chakra and obviously above the capabilities of his two sons.
You need to stop twisting character's words. Hagoromo said awakening the Rinnegan that he and Madara have only gives the individual his Chakra. He doesn't say you become closer to his power. Not like it's relevant when standard Rinnegan > tomoe Rinnegan and Indra's Arrow butchers all of Sasuke's arsenal.
>You seriously can't believe Indra has even close amounts to the reserves and potency of 8.5 bijuus even if it is in portions. As those portions where enough to make Kurama say Sasuke is doing a feat on the sage of six path's level. Plus you have zero evidence that Indra Indra's Arrow is powerful as Sasuke's.
I'll repeat myself again: Start reading sentences properly and stop twisting what I said. I said that I'm not going to speculate its potency, but it's present evidence that Indra's Arrow can only be used by the sheer quantity of Chakra Sasuke took worth portions of 9 Biju's Chakra, and the Chakra he took were only portions of Biju's Chakra, not the whole. Indra would have just as powerful as that, because he inherited his father's powerful Chakra. Kurama only praised Sasuke's Chakra control; he didn't praise the attack's potency.
>LOL you still believe that crap about Sasuke not having all six paths. The manga and db have said Rinnegan possess all 6 paths. Nor is there a such a thing as a RInnegan being weaker than another. Sasuke already absorbed chakra from 9 diffirent bijuus simultaneously and did a reverse COAT so nope his Rinnegan isn't weaker and has used deva path's ultimate ability in one swoop and at 9x so it's not weaker.
Excuses aren't helping you. I'm not repeating myself 3rd time. There is a fanfic section where you can talk about your imagination.
Kishi didn't make him use asura path or naraka path to grow back his arm for design and plot purposes. Like how Madara never used Susanoo while he was a JJ, that doesn't mean he can't use it if he's never shown it.
so you believe indra can replicate the arrow on the magnitude of Sasuke's even though he lacks the potency and reserves of 8.5 bijuus?
Indra may have had but that doesn't mean it would be as powerful as Sasuke's version. Minato made the rasengan but Naruto can make a rasengan more powerful than Minato.
The problem with this battle is that Indra has nearly no feats
No, Indra doesn't have chakra comparable to 9 Biju and he doesn't need to since the arrow doesn't use anywhere near the full chakra amount of 9 Biju.
It didn't even use the full chakra amount of the portions that Sasuke took from them.
There isn't anything implying that there is a weaker version of Indra's arrow, so the only conclusion that could be made is that it's flat out impossible without the level of chakra that Sasuke took.
Giant Rasengan isn't a jutsu that was ever credited to Minato. The original Rasengan was and nothing more.
The arrow that Sasuke used is stated to be Indra's arrow. That's all the author needs to say to make it obvious that what we saw Sasuke use is what Indra used. Any other interpretation is a reach.
TheSages456 answered this. Naruto vs Sasuke are in parallel to Ashura vs Indra. Author makes Naruto's avatar look exactly like Ashura's, and he names Sasuke's strongest Jutsu after Indra. Again, this isn't English Literature. Basic understanding of content.
Doesn't matter. Can Iruka beat featless Hamura? No. Author gave us enough stated feats that Indra can use which molests Sasuke.
:lol Fam, do you know genetic inheritance? This is something 9th grade students take. You should have paid attention in class. Indra would inherit at least half of his father's Chakra in qualitative and quantities terms. It's not degraded in any shape. Yes, Madara's Chakra is lesser and weaker than the incarnates before him, because each incarnate is embodied with a Chakra that has devolved over time; the length between each incarnate is at least 50-100 years, giving how much older Madara is to Sasuke.
You need to stop twisting character's words. Hagoromo said awakening the Rinnegan that he and Madara have only gives the individual his Chakra. He doesn't say you become closer to his power. Not like it's relevant when standard Rinnegan > tomoe Rinnegan and Indra's Arrow butchers all of Sasuke's arsenal.
I'll repeat myself again: Start reading sentences properly and stop twisting what I said. I said that I'm not going to speculate its potency, but it's present evidence that Indra's Arrow can only be used by the sheer quantity of Chakra Sasuke took worth portions of 9 Biju's Chakra, and the Chakra he took were only portions of Biju's Chakra, not the whole. Indra would have just as powerful as that, because he inherited his father's powerful Chakra. Kurama only praised Sasuke's Chakra control; he didn't praise the attack's potency.
Excuses aren't helping you. I'm not repeating myself 3rd time. There is a fanfic section where you can talk about your imagination.
You work with Kishi? :lol Not interested in these excuses.
He would have then absorbed Momoshiki's attacks. Indra's Arrow nukes him before he can absorb anything.
>you may have a point with indra having the move. Wouldn't the parallel be in how Indra has PS just like how Sasuke has one too and how Naruto has a chakra avatar with marking just like ashura.
>Yes I do know inheritance and let's not get too personal. Indra's reincarnates are said to receive Indra's chakra just like Ashura's incarnates which makes them diffirent from the other descandants of Indra & Ashura. It's why Madara could activate the rinnegan while Danzo or Obito couldn't. So why would Indra have better chakra than Sasuke if Sasuke himself has Indra's own chakra. You can't say that chakra was degrate when it's straight out of Indra's own spirit and not from his parents. Plus the manga didn't say the chakra got weaker over time.
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so if the other reincarnates had "better" chakra than Madara then why weren't they as acknowledged?
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>Hagoromo said merging his two sons's chakra lets them aweaken his chakra's power the Rinnegan. So yes he has gotten closer to Hagoromo's power in a way.
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>ok. but the problem here is that we don't know if Indra's IA would be enough to completely destroy Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo. Sasuke has Indra's own chakra since he's a reincarnate so the power of their chakra should be around the same level. Just because sasuke used 8.5 bijuu portions for Indra's arrow that doesn't neccassarily mean that is the required amount to do an IA. For example, Konohamaru had less chakra and skill then minato yet he made a rasengan. KCM Naruto produced a small variant of rasenshuriken utilizing much less chakra and effort as his first rasenshuriken. So I don't see why it's not that possible Indra could have made a weaker Indra's arrow than what sasuke did.
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>all rinnegan are said to receive the 6 paths and when did the manga imply there was such a thing as a "weaker" rinnegan? The same dojutsus (3t vs 3t, MS vs MS. Byakugan vs Byakugan etc) can't be weaker than each other but they can have diffirent unique abilities and wielders can have diffirent skill with them. Sasuke;s rinnegan has always been referred to with no special name as if it looked normal.
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> off topic: do you believe Madara is a "weak" Rinnegan user because he hasn't shown animal and ashura path?
>you may have a point with indra having the move. Wouldn't the parallel be in how Indra has PS just like how Sasuke has one too and how Naruto has a chakra avatar with marking just like ashura.
>Yes I do know inheritance and let's not get too personal. Indra's reincarnates are said to receive Indra's chakra just like Ashura's incarnates which makes them diffirent from the other descandants of Indra & Ashura. It's why Madara could activate the rinnegan while Danzo or Obito couldn't. So why would Indra have better chakra than Sasuke if Sasuke himself has Indra's own chakra. You can't say that chakra was degrate when it's straight out of Indra's own spirit and not from his parents. Plus the manga didn't say the chakra got weaker over time.
Now you're contradicting yourself. You said this: ''The chakra/power he get from his father is very degrated'' and now you change your words. The manga doesn't obviously have to say that the Chakra devolved in time. We can see the difference in scale of Jutsu between Hashirama and Naruto, so this should present an example that their Chakra is degraded every moment of reincarnation.
so if the other reincarnates had "better" chakra than Madara then why weren't they as acknowledged?
Your scan is outdated. The author didn't thought of reincarnation concept, when the scan you posted is from 6-7 years ago.
>Hagoromo said merging his two sons's chakra lets them aweaken his chakra's power the Rinnegan. So yes he has gotten closer to Hagoromo's power in a way.
The power within Hagoromo's Chakra unlocks the Rinnegan, this was the context. It's not in literal sense Madara is becoming closer to Hagoromo's power, when the scale of his Jutsu is a pity compared to Indra and Ashura, let alone Hagoromo.
>ok. but the problem here is that we don't know if Indra's IA would be enough to completely destroy Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo. Sasuke has Indra's own chakra since he's a reincarnate so the power of their chakra should be around the same level. Just because sasuke used 8.5 bijuu portions for Indra's arrow that doesn't neccassarily mean that is the required amount to do an IA. For example, Konohamaru had less chakra and skill then minato yet he made a rasengan. KCM Naruto produced a small variant of rasenshuriken utilizing much less chakra and effort as his first rasenshuriken. So I don't see why it's not that possible Indra could have made a weaker Indra's arrow than what sasuke did.
Sasuke's PS had 30%-40% of its defensive layer removed by an explosion much smaller and weaker than what Indra's Arrow constituted, so Indra's Arrow bust it with ease. The rest had been addressed.
>all rinnegan are said to receive the 6 paths and when did the manga imply there was such a thing as a "weaker" rinnegan? The same dojutsus (3t vs 3t, MS vs MS. Byakugan vs Byakugan etc) can't be weaker than each other but they can have diffirent unique abilities and wielders can have diffirent skill with them. Sasuke;s rinnegan has always been referred to with no special name as if it looked normal.
The Rinnegan that is said depicts the one without tomoe's. Does Obito's MS have Tsukuyomi just because they are said to be MS powers? No. Each has its own design and unique powers. Sasuke's Rinnegan has its own design and unique powers, which normal Rinnegan doesn't.
By the way, just to be clear: Kishimoto only wrote the plot for the movie; animators can decide what goes in and out. Sasuke still showed no signs of Rinnegan techniques at life and death situation, and Kishimoto had no influence on that but the animators did. Standard Rinnegan > tomoe Rinnegan based on feats.
> off topic: do you believe Madara is a "weak" Rinnegan user because he hasn't shown animal and ashura path?
Now you're contradicting yourself. You said this: ''The chakra/power he get from his father is very degrated'' and now you change your words. The manga doesn't obviously have to say that the Chakra devolved in time. We can see the difference in scale of Jutsu between Hashirama and Naruto, so this should present an example that their Chakra is degraded every moment of reincarnation.
Your scan is outdated. The author didn't thought of reincarnation concept, when the scan you posted is from 6-7 years ago.
The power within Hagoromo's Chakra unlocks the Rinnegan, this was the context. It's not in literal sense Madara is becoming closer to Hagoromo's power, when the scale of his Jutsu is a pity compared to Indra and Ashura, let alone Hagoromo.
Sasuke's PS had 30%-40% of its defensive layer removed by an explosion much smaller and weaker than what Indra's Arrow constituted, so Indra's Arrow bust it with ease. The rest had been addressed.
The Rinnegan that is said depicts the one without tomoe's. Does Obito's MS have Tsukuyomi just because they are said to be MS powers? No. Each has its own design and unique powers. Sasuke's Rinnegan has its own design and unique powers, which normal Rinnegan doesn't.
By the way, just to be clear: Kishimoto only wrote the plot for the movie; animators can decide what goes in and out. Sasuke still showed no signs of Rinnegan techniques at life and death situation, and Kishimoto had no influence on that but the animators did. Standard Rinnegan > tomoe Rinnegan based on feats.
>I changed my mind because I was wrong on that. Why are you comparing Hashirama and Naruto when they have two completely different set of powers? Hashirama was born with mokuton, a very powerful kekka genkai, and as far as we know only Hashirama was born with that and not any other Ashura incarnate including Ashura himself.
A better comparison would be between Sasuke and Madara. Orochimaru and Tobirama have both noted Sasuke's prowress in comparison to Madara and they both believe Sasuke has the ability to reach Madara's level and perhaps transend it. That doesn't match up with your idea that chakra directly from indra/Ashura's own spirits degrade/got weaker. If it did then Oro and Tobirama wouldn't see Sasuke's potential. Not to mention their hype isn't empty, because we have seen a 17 year old EMS Sasuke already replicate feats a grown madara has like the Kyuubi Susanoo fusion, an Eternal Mangekyo Susanoo, Perfect Susanoo. Not saying EMS Sasuke>EMS Madara but you get the point.
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>How do you know Kishi didn't make reincarnation up yet? The sage of six path's sons were revealed not very long after that scan of Madara ( i think that Madara scan chapter was released in 2008 but the sage's sons were revealed around mid-late 2009) and the parallel between the elder duo (hashirama and madara) and the younger duo (Naruto & Sasuke) has been a thing since near the end of part 1 (which would be over 10 years ago in real life years). Heck wen Obito recounts the story of the sage's sons he says to Naruto he and Sasuke are chosen in line by destiny.
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>My point still stands. Madara was clearly born as an exceptionally strong Uchiha. Heck he was said to be the first Uchiha to awaken the MS. If he was nothing special we'd hear about the other reincarnates who lived before him. Plus Madara was said to be the strongest Uchiha if he wasn't there would be stories of Uchihas before him that were stronger.
Lastly, if there were reincarnates with supposedly better chakra than Madara or Hashirama, why haven't we heard legends about them? If there's someone who has even better scale of jutsu then even Hashirama, wouldn't you say that would've cemented that person as a legend like Hashirama and Madara were? so the chakra clearly isn't degrading generation by generation and all the reincarnates receive chakra from Ashura/Indra directly from the original source (their spirits) so there is no reason for it to degrade. Talent, training ability and personality are also factors that can make a reincarnate stronger than one another.Even if they both possess chakra from the Indra %& Ashura. Since Sasuke inhereited chakra directly from indra's own spirit they should have similar chakra levels.
Sasuke's Rinnegan looks strange but it should have the same set of powers since he already has displayed jutsus from the 6 paths and it makes no sense for him to be missing any paths. It just has a unique jutsu like how only Obito's MS has Kamui. Or Madara's Rinnegan has limbo but can't use Ameno or portals.
>With Sasuke's and Indra's chakra levels around the same, Indra is not replicating an Indra's Arrow done by a Sasuke with similar levels of chakra to his own+rikoudo chakra+8.5 bijuu portions. Then Sasuke beats his predecessor.
Hogoroma admit himself that he didn't give his power to Indra but only to Ashura, which is why this time he will give to Sasuke too.
So they have the same chacra, but only one has the Sage's power.
>I changed my mind because I was wrong on that. Why are you comparing Hashirama and Naruto when they have two completely different set of powers? Hashirama was born with mokuton, a very powerful kekka genkai, and as far as we know only Hashirama was born with that and not any other Ashura incarnate including Ashura himself.
Are you dense? I compared them to prove my Chakra devolving point. They are Ashura's reincarnations, but Hashirama being the prior one had DC that dwarfs Naruto's. And I'm obviously not mentioning Kurama here, because Kurama is separate power from Naruto.
A better comparison would be between Sasuke and Madara. Orochimaru and Tobirama have both noted Sasuke's prowress in comparison to Madara and they both believe Sasuke has the ability to reach Madara's level and perhaps transend it. That doesn't match up with your idea that chakra directly from indra/Ashura's own spirits degrade/got weaker. If it did then Oro and Tobirama wouldn't see Sasuke's potential. Not to mention their hype isn't empty, because we have seen a 17 year old EMS Sasuke already replicate feats a grown madara has like the Kyuubi Susanoo fusion, an Eternal Mangekyo Susanoo, Perfect Susanoo. Not saying EMS Sasuke>EMS Madara but you get the point.
Lol, Sasuke surpassed EMS Madara the moment he was given the Rinnegan, which gave him equal PS to Madara's and this was what the author wanted to portray. Author portrayed Madara as the strongest Uchiha in the databook, meaning the hype you're falsie interpreting has no relevance. Nothing wrong with comparing Hashirama to Naruto.
>How do you know Kishi didn't make reincarnation up yet? The sage of six path's sons were revealed not very long after that scan of Madara ( i think that Madara scan chapter was released in 2008 but the sage's sons were revealed around mid-late 2009) and the parallel between the elder duo (hashirama and madara) and the younger duo (Naruto & Sasuke) has been a thing since near the end of part 1 (which would be over 10 years ago in real life years). Heck wen Obito recounts the story of the sage's sons he says to Naruto he and Sasuke are chosen in line by destiny.
Author depicted Indra's Doujutsu differently from what he did now, so this is incorrect.
>My point still stands. Madara was clearly born as an exceptionally strong Uchiha. Heck he was said to be the first Uchiha to awaken the MS. If he was nothing special we'd hear about the other reincarnates who lived before him. Plus Madara was said to be the strongest Uchiha if he wasn't there would be stories of Uchihas before him that were stronger.
And for the third time, I'm telling you to read properly and stop twisting my words. I said Uchiha's prior to Madara had stronger and larger Chakra than he did. I never said they were stronger than him.
Lastly, if there were reincarnates with supposedly better chakra than Madara or Hashirama, why haven't we heard legends about them? If there's someone who has even better scale of jutsu then even Hashirama, wouldn't you say that would've cemented that person as a legend like Hashirama and Madara were? so the chakra clearly isn't degrading generation by generation and all the reincarnates receive chakra from Ashura/Indra directly from the original source (their spirits) so there is no reason for it to degrade. Talent, training ability and personality are also factors that can make a reincarnate stronger than one another. Even if they both possess chakra from the Indra %& Ashura. Since Sasuke inhereited chakra directly from indra's own spirit they should have similar chakra levels.
I don't know why you're repeating stuff that are addressed.
Sasuke's Rinnegan looks strange but it should have the same set of powers since he already has displayed jutsus from the 6 paths and it makes no sense for him to be missing any paths. It just has a unique jutsu like how only Obito's MS has Kamui. Or Madara's Rinnegan has limbo but can't use Ameno or portals.
>With Sasuke's and Indra's chakra levels around the same, Indra is not replicating an Indra's Arrow done by a Sasuke with similar levels of chakra to his own+rikoudo chakra+8.5 bijuu portions. Then Sasuke beats his predecessor.
