By that logic Boruto > Shikamaru and rest of the Konoha nins already since he was one of those members in there. It's the same Shikamaruo who thought likes of Kiba, Sakura could kill Sasuke who was with BZ and Tobi to boot. He didn't bother to gather enough intel before planning.
Of course Kages are some of the best combatants from their respective villages. But it's not much use in versus threads. It's like grasping at straws since it's a polite cheer. So better keep it to actual arguments to support.
I'm sure you know full well who shikamaru was referring to in that statement.
Boruto wasn't brought along as a combatant, He was brought along as a back up plan, Should the main fighters (Sasuke and the kage) fail for what ever reason, Which were the fighters shikamaru was referring to.
Duh. I was reminding that his words are not a real one on one comparison with anyone not there.
Fact: From what we have seen- a lot of Chojuro's strength comes from having enough team support only and for a quick burst of power. In every fight that I can remember, he benefited from other people engaging the foe in one way or another and he took his time in execution of his attack otherwise while they did so.
How do you think Kakashi would fair against Chojuro? Can you use that statement by Shika against Kakashi when Kishimoto portrays Kakashi as the stronger of the two?
It's actually in context, of course you have the power to answer me "in context" but when I answer it's not in context anymore?
You stated that Shikamaru doesn't have enough intel about the Kages and his comrades with 0 basis to support your argument which I countered with this ;
Are you saying that Shikamaru doesn't have enough intel about the 5 Kages and people like Sakura? Once again, I'm reading assumption not manga facts.. Should I remind you that Shikamaru is the Hokage assistant for YEARS, he know damn well what his comrades are capable of over the years.
You stated that Shikamaru doesn't have enough intel about the Kages and his comrades with 0 basis to support your argument which I countered with this ;
Shikamaru gave a statement- that's a fact. How much it weighs in a versus argument is another matter. Can you prove beyond doubt that Chokuro will win against Kakashi? Kishimoto portrays Kakashi as the stronger of the two but he was not part of the group. Does that automatically states Chojuro> Kakashi? How much this argument mean if you use it in a Kakashi vs Chojuro thread? No. Then it's not a fact to be considered for the versus thread. If you think yes- it would be fun to make a thread on the topic and see the reactions after using your " super point" to "end all the debate".
Why are you trying to counter what Shikamaru stated, then
By that logic Boruto > Shikamaru and rest of the Konoha nins already since he was one of those members in there. It's the same Shikamaruo who thought likes of Kiba, Sakura could kill Sasuke who was with BZ and Tobi to boot. He didn't bother to gather enough intel before planning.
The Boruto manga portrays Chojuro as stronger than Sakura, that's it. It's just an important factor that I wanted to add into the thread, you can simply ignore it.
Regardless, have a good night. It's getting late there
That's your brilliant counter to cover the fact that you cannot use that panel of Shikamaru as a 'fact' in a vs thread against another character like Kakashi yet his combat abilities were hyped by the manga. Then it's not a " fact" that's proof of anything to be applied in other fights. I'm not just trying. I'm effectively demonstrating worth of that statement in that panel. It's what it is. But not some super point to end the debate like you imagined because then you are not thinking it through.
The Boruto manga label Chojuro as stronger than Sakura, it's just manga facts nothing else.
That's a speculative opinion. For manga never compared them one on one. It's use readers making guesses.
You never have any counter on your own- only repeating what others say. So unless you have some new point to add you are spamming by repeating same old stuff.
Choujiro doesn't have any feats except a surprise attack to a zetsu (doesn't really matter if it's black or not, BZ doesn't have any feats whatosever either to make it any different) and some silly bone technique that barely held Kinshiki (as the true hold up came from the Lava element from Kurotsuchi).
Even though I don't favor medic nins in combat, Sakura at the very least has more feats to show than him. She win this, mid at worst.
Ots not irrelevant and you're not paying attention, Sasori's iron sand has the same merit of attack as Chojuro's sword. Like the chakra released from Hiramekarei Sasori's iron sand can from large structures to bullet-like particles and multiple striking branches. Sakura (in Chiyos words) was able to evade and see through those attacks in a short while which lead her to conclude that she didn't need her help.
Point? Chojuro isn't taking Sakura down with a swing of a sword nor is Hiramekarei's attacks fast enough to completely negate Sakura's ability to evade.
Same amount of time it takes for him to do a single swing.
Sakura evades the one swing @ the 15m away while closing the sort distance between themselves, throws a punch @ Chojuro which she is fast enough to land or even if she doesn't land it the shockwave behind her attack sends him flying.
Which wasn't the point as nobody said Sakura cant dodge. Her evasion requires physical maneuvering which can be exploited with tactical waves of attacks.
Both Chojuro & Sakura's primus in this discussion requires physical movement, Sakura's physical movements are more impressive then his or ahenhas faster feats in combat them Chojuro does.
The manga does agree and heres why. Chojuro evaded Kinshiki's dash someone much faster than Sakura/Shin , forcing him to attack the ground , then he evaded Kinshiki again from CQC range by avoiding getting his body sliced in half by his second attack.
Your not listening, Sakura (during the war arc) evaded Kaguya's chakra arm which in Naruto's words was "super fast" in the manga which forced Kaguya's chakra arm to pursue her or chase her, that is just as impressive. Chojuro dodging Kinshiki's attacked isnt enough to argue Chojuro>Sakura when sakura was evading opponents whos attacks was/is
tiers beyond Chojuro's speed.
Kinshiki is tiers upon tiers faster than Sakuraand any of her attacks , making ur mentions of her speed feats irrelevant.
Sakura was able to out maneuver Kaguya's pursuit of her way before Chojuro dodged Kinshiki's attack and based on her actual feats as an adult Sakura hasn't gotten slower but faster and more agile. Go watch Shin Vs Sakura; she would walk all over him.
Sakura doesn't have movement speed even close to Kinshiki
Sakura not blitzing shin during their round 2 subsides Chojuro's ability or inability to fight on par or react/dodge Kinishki's attack when he pursued him 1 on 1. The second Kinishki came after him individually he ended up losing his balance and being sliced.
Because let me assure you that I can back it up with actual data and screens shots how the Sakura hate groups ran a sustained hate campaign- they actually made ranks based on it and encouraged each other to make more such posts and threads to rank up in hate. It's an example of one of the most screwed up behaviour and mentality. She is not a great character and written poorly. Yet the amount of salt thrown at her is highly disproportionate and often not even factually true. But based on deliberate distorted and vicious logic. .
LOL Shika at the time never knew anything about Sasuke or Tobi's full combat ability. Adult Shika would clearly know Sakura's combat ability over the years just as he knew of the Kage's.
Yet he did speak and put the plan in action- to show how wise he was. Here Shikamaru didn't even comment about her but gave a general polite statement as it's clear if you pit in chojuro Vs Kakashi. They were among strongest from their villages and helping hokage and only that matters.
You see it doesn't matter who wins. But I bet people using that panel to prove Kakashi loses as a fact will be laughed at. That was one example that came to mind but there is Oro. There is Kabuto. I may remember more names if I keep thinking but I have made my point very clear in several posts.) These people too are strong enough yet not the ones in the group Shika mentioned and can give trouble to these kages. ( So..they have to back up their argument with something more substantial. Meaning using that panel here to dismiss rest of the arguments as proven " mangafact" is utterly stupid.
Exactly, the only argument that’s being brought up is Shikamaru’s statements, if that’s all you’ve got to back up Chojuro and two mediocre panels, then it’s pretty obvious that you’re in denial. Sakura > Chojuro.
^. No It does not make it pretty obvious smh. The only obvious thing here is Sakura fans are in denial. Taking about speculations other nonsense. When the thread asks for feats. So going by feats chojuro > Sakura.
^ :hyper: if we went by feats and left hype out of the equation or another characters statement Sakura without a doubt beats Chojuro, Sakura beats Chojuro. The only feat Chojuro has in this discussion is barley dodging Kinshiki's attack but that one feat cannot win this argument becuase Sakura evading Kaguya's chakra arm close range is just as formidable. If we we were to put those two feats to the side since their both in the same caliber of recognition, who has more & better feats?
^ :hyper: if we went by feats and left hype out of the equation or another characters statement Sakura without a doubt beats Chojuro, Sakura beats Chojuro. The only feat Chojuro has in this discussion is barley dodging Kinshiki's attack but that one feat cannot win this argument becuase Sakura evading Kaguya's chakra arm close range is just as formidable. If we we were to put those two feats to the side since their both in the same caliber of recognition, who has more & better feats?
His cqc with Kinshiki is above anything she's done in cqc. Her anime fight with Shin is filler, so don't bother using that as a bases. He still dodged it. Something Sasuke had to use Ameno for. Kinshiki is above anything Sakura has ever fought head on, and not taken by surprise. Sakura evading Kaguya . Now you sound like a parrot. This claim of yours has already been proven wrong. Plus Kakashi saved her ass. Ain't going to bother repeating all that again (just go back and read the replies again :bdpf. She does have more feats, I ain't denying that. His close quarters combat feats are above hers though and that's a fact.
Yet he did speak and put the plan in action- to show how wise he was. Here Shikamaru didn't even comment about her but gave a general polite statement as it's clear if you pit in chojuro Vs Kakashi. They were among strongest from their villages and helping hokage and only that matters.
You see it doesn't matter who wins. But I bet people using that panel to prove Kakashi loses as a fact will be laughed at. That was one example that came to mind but there is Oro. There is Kabuto. I may remember more names if I keep thinking but I have made my point very clear in several posts.) These people too are strong enough yet not the ones in the group Shika mentioned and can give trouble to these kages. ( So..they have to back up their argument with something more substantial. Meaning using that panel here to dismiss rest of the arguments as proven " mangafact" is utterly stupid.
I agree that the notation doesn't mean everyone there is superior to everyone else in everything like speed and all that. Buts its clear that the ninja present operate on a combat ability level which gives them the ability to keep up with aliens who operate on the level of Otsuki by feats. So its funny hearing people say things like Chojuro cant keep up with Sakura in combat as if she operates close to or beyond that level.
Sakura evading his attacks doesn't translate into her avoiding every single attack combination constantly and without fail with every single physical evasion. The speed gap isn't that huge.
Never implied his attacks would neg Sakura as is why i said the match would be high diff and why i made sure to note that she can dodge his attacks. So no , not a direct counter.
Ots not irrelevant and you're not paying attention, Sasori's iron sand has the same merit of attack as Chojuro's sword. Like the chakra released from Hiramekarei Sasori's iron sand can from large structures to bullet-like particles and multiple striking branches. Sakura (in Chiyos words) was able to evade and see through those attacks in a short while which lead her to conclude that she didn't need her help.
Different type of attacks with different movement and activation speed. Chojuro's Chakra-wave have the speed feat of outpacing Kinshiki before he could attack Sasuke who was less than 4m away.
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Better speed feat than any of Sasori's attacks used against Sakura. All we saw Sasori use against her before that statment by Chyo were large structures , not things fast enough to outpace Kinchiki before he could attack from 4m away while already in motion.
Point? Chojuro isn't taking Sakura down with a swing of a sword nor is Hiramekarei's attacks fast enough to completely negate Sakura's ability to evade.
It would take Sakura even less time or perhaps the same to prepare for his attack or read it then evade it.
Sakura evades the one swing @ the 15m away while closing the sort distance between themselves, throws a punch @ Chojuro which she is fast enough to land or even if she doesn't land it the shockwave behind her attack sends him flying.
Sakura evades the first Chakra-wave but how exactly? She jumps over it , ducks or blitz to the side? Whatever the case it prevents her from instantly closing the gap smoothly. Chojuro avoided Kinshiki's attack so he does the same to Sakura followed by a swift cut via chara extension after she commits to her attack like Kinshiki did.
Both Chojuro & Sakura's primus in this discussion requires physical movement, Sakura's physical movements are more impressive then his or ahenhas faster feats in combat them Chojuro does.
Your not listening, Sakura (during the war arc) evaded Kaguya's chakra arm which in Naruto's words was "super fast" in the manga which forced Kaguya's chakra arm to pursue her or chase her, that is just as impressive. Chojuro dodging Kinshiki's attacked isnt enough to argue Chojuro>Sakura when sakura was evading opponents whos attacks was/is
tiers beyond Chojuro's speed.
Point of the matter Chojuro avoided Kinshiki's dash+attack so he easily keeps up with Sakura and can also avoid her attacks just as she can avoid his. Only difference he has much more reach and attacks that propel faster.
Sakura was able to out maneuver Kaguya's pursuit of her way before Chojuro dodged Kinshiki's attack and based on her actual feats as an adult Sakura hasn't gotten slower but faster and more agile. Go watch Shin Vs Sakura; she would walk all over him.
So kinshiki who kept up with Sasuke isn't tiers faster than Sakura in movement and striking speed?. Sakura's speed would allow her to walk all over him but yet Kinshiki couldn't?
Sakura not blitzing shin during their round 2 subsides Chojuro's ability or inability to fight on par or react/dodge Kinishki's attack when he pursued him 1 on 1. The second Kinishki came after him individually he ended up losing his balance and being sliced.
Sakura not blitzing shin in an actual fight means u mentioning her surprising Shin as an argument doesn't work.
-Chojuro literally avoided Kinchiki's initial blitz when he pursued him 1 on 1. Then Kinshiki , after attacking the ground , blitzed towards Chojuro again this time from a much closer distance, and Chojuro was able to put up a guard against his attack but was over-powered by Kinshiki's might so his guard broke but yet still held his blade.
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Chojuro avoided Kinchiki's initial blitz , then was able to put up a guard for a much closer blitz afterwards. Now lets say someone was able to do these things to Hebi Sasuke's shunshin blitz , avoid his initial Blitz forcing him to attack the ground , then this person was able to put up a guard against his second blitz .
Those would be good speed/reaction feats for whoever did so because Hebi Sasuke's shunshin was on a very high level and his shunshin is faster than his attack's movement speed.
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Now we have Kinchiki who is tiers upon tiers faster.
^. No It does not make it pretty obvious smh. The only obvious thing here is Sakura fans are in denial. Taking about speculations other nonsense. When the thread asks for feats. So going by feats chojuro > Sakura.
Please miss me with immense bullshit, Chojuro has 3 panels of feats in the entire series, sit down and shut up. The only people defending Chojuro don't even have a sustained arguemnet to support it, you either got someone regurgitating Shikamaru's statement, someone giving Chojuro techniques which he dosen't have, or someone using the BZ panel as the base of their entire arguement.
Let me explain this panel as well, Naruto claims the "chakra hand" is extremely fast and coming from someone with some of the best reaction feats in the series thats quite a statement, as you can see the hand is closing in on Sakura and seconds later when Sakura realises the attack she reacts and avoids the initial assault.
reaction
rɪˈakʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
1. something done, felt, or thought in response to a situation or event
The reason she was saved however is because the hand was overtaking her at a speed she couldn't escape from not because she couldn't react because if she couldn't react she would have been caught by the hand before Kakashi could have saved her. It's a reaction feat whether you like it or not because she "reacted" to the inital assault and outmanouvered it for a while.
I was reminding that his words are not a real one on one comparison with anyone not there.
