[Discussion] Ace vs Crocodile.

[Hexuze]

Lol I'm starting to see why people think Croc. is really overrated.

 

[Fireplay]

Ace will give him the same treatment Zoro gave Pica.

Aka Croc will get eaten.

 

[BigGuns Reloaded]

Croc wins

Ace is a good character but nothing here proves he could pull that luffy crap

Shambles solos

 

[VongolaX]

Where did Crocodile create enough sand for an entire country through his body alone?

Alabasta sandstorms

Also, Crocodile did not fight Akainu for a while, he landed a single sneak attack on Akainu. The sneak attack cut Akainu in half because Akainu's body reflexively transformed. We saw half of Akainu's body disappear after he was struck with cannon balls, something that couldn't even put down Bartolomeo, so him being cut in half by Crocodile didn't really mean anything.

While you have a good point about sand smothering flames, you are wrong in that magma is hotter than fire. Magma can go from 700 °C to 1300 °C, while fire in just a candle can go to 1000 degrees C and a fire in a bunsen burner can go to 1600 degrees C. Magma is superior to fire because it can smother it.

Think again, Cobra already posted the scan.

magma is hotter than fire:

Spoiler

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Magma burns fire and in order for magma to burn fire it needs to be hotter than fire.

We are going my One piece logic here so you can save the math. There are things that are outside this earth that are hotter than magma itself and its essence is made up of flames/fire alone.

But as far as manga goes.....NO

 

[Punk Hazard]

Alabasta sandstorms




Think again, Cobra already posted the scan.

magma is hotter than fire:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Magma burns fire and in order for magma to burn fire it needs to be hotter than fire.

We are going my One piece logic here so you can save the math. There are things that are outside this earth that are hotter than magma itself and its essence is made up of flames/fire alone.

But as far as manga goes.....NO

Pretty sure Croco just created a single sand storm that picked up more sand as it traveled. He never created a country's worth of sand, he created multiple sandstorms that increased in size because they were made in a desert.

And no, he posted a scan where Crocodile used one attack against Akainu that did nothing whatsoever, and that was it. Crocodile and Akainu didn't trade blows or anything.

No, magma is not hotter than fire. Akainu says ¨magma burns fire¨ because he and Ace are magma and fire, they embody it. What this means is, Logias don't just consider themselves able to be able transform into the element, they consider themselves to BE the element, which is Akainu said that Ace is fire and he is magma. He was saying that he(magma) is capable of burning Ace(fire) because magma is superior to fire due to being able to smother and assimilate fire. Oda never stated that magma is hotter than fire.

 

[bajram]

Anyone with half a brain knows that if someone as Boo was able to clad haki in his axe or even someone like pica was able to go fullbody hardening then ace definitely is proficient haki user, the guy was the 2nd commander of WB pirates, even though I think there are at least 3 or 4 people above ace on the ol' WB crew he is still part of the core crew of WB, and for me anyone who helds a commander title in the WB pirates should have haki, I mean that's common sense, but then again many people even doubted mihawk on having haki so...

Leave aside haki, ace overpowers croc in almost every other department of strength, croc feats are pretty shit except for being able to take on a hit by jozu and be able to stand on feet after that, that's all he got here otherwise being overpowered by a pre-skip luffy or being slower then someone like pre-gears luffy who had a hard time catching up to the likes of blueno then yeah his physical stats are pretty shit, not saying ace has some of the best physical feats but he fought BB and Akainu so there was no room for his to show how he is capable on dealing with average people but by default Ace stomps or low diffs croc.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Anyone with half a brain knows that if someone as Boo was able to clad haki in his axe or even someone like pica was able to go fullbody hardening then ace definitely is proficient haki user, the guy was the 2nd commander of WB pirates, even though I think there are at least 3 or 4 people above ace on the ol' WB crew he is still part of the core crew of WB, and for me anyone who helds a commander title in the WB pirates should have haki, I mean that's common sense, but then again many people even doubted mihawk on having haki so...

Leave aside haki, ace overpowers croc in almost every other department of strength, croc feats are pretty shit except for being able to take on a hit by jozu and be able to stand on feet after that, that's all he got here otherwise being overpowered by a pre-skip luffy or being slower then someone like pre-gears luffy who had a hard time catching up to the likes of blueno then yeah his physical stats are pretty shit, not saying ace has some of the best physical feats but he fought BB and Akainu so there was no room for his to show how he is capable on dealing with average people but by default Ace stomps or low diffs croc.

Then why would Ace not use Haki in his initial attack against the Logia whom he knows is a Logia and whose death he wanted more than anything at the time?

 

[bajram]

Then why would Ace not use Haki in his initial attack against the Logia whom he knows is a Logia and whose death he wanted more than anything at the time?

Sorry but are u referring here to Akainu or perhaps BB, I dont get it.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Sorry but are u referring here to Akainu or perhaps BB, I dont get it.

Blackbeard. Ace struck him with Fiery Doll and commented that an attack like that(one not infused with Haki) shouldn't have affected him. Which begs the question of why Ace would use an attack not clad with Haki against the Logia he's trying to kill if he could use Haki?

 

[bajram]

Blackbeard. Ace struck him with Fiery Doll and commented that an attack like that(one not infused with Haki) shouldn't have affected him. Which begs the question of why Ace would use an attack not clad with Haki against the Logia he's trying to kill if he could use Haki?

He was pretty much testing him because BB called himself a logia and probably it was a way for the writer to tell the nature of the yam yami no mi, even though isnt ace's words more than enough to prove that the guy has knowledge on haki and can use him based on how he talked about his attack:

"If you have a Logia type, it should've been easy for you to dodge this kind of attack"

Implying that he could have used attacks that could hit a logia, when BB said before that he was a logia ace seemed pretty confident on taking him on.

 

[Punk Hazard]

He was pretty much testing him because BB called himself a logia and probably it was a way for the writer to tell the nature of the yam yami no mi, even though isnt ace's words more than enough to prove that the guy has knowledge on haki and can use him based on how he talked about his attack:

"If you have a Logia type, it should've been easy for you to dodge this kind of attack"

Implying that he could have used attacks that could hit a logia, when BB said before that he was a logia ace seemed pretty confident on taking him on.

What we have here are two scenarios for this situation:

1. Ace could have used Haki, but chose not to, which is pretty bad writing because there was no reason for Ace to hold back Haki against an opponent he knows he can't touch without Haki and he's trying to outright murder.

2. Ace can't use Haki, Oda making it so so that he could reveal the nature of Teach's fruit to not need Haki.

I'm gonna go with the latter until we get some kind of confirmation in the manga that Ace has Busoshoku Haki.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Pretty sure Croco just created a single sand storm that picked up more sand as it traveled. He never created a country's worth of sand, he created multiple sandstorms that increased in size because they were made in a desert.

And no, he posted a scan where Crocodile used one attack against Akainu that did nothing whatsoever, and that was it. Crocodile and Akainu didn't trade blows or anything.

No, magma is not hotter than fire. Akainu says ¨magma burns fire¨ because he and Ace are magma and fire, they embody it. What this means is, Logias don't just consider themselves able to be able transform into the element, they consider themselves to BE the element, which is Akainu said that Ace is fire and he is magma. He was saying that he(magma) is capable of burning Ace(fire) because magma is superior to fire due to being able to smother and assimilate fire. Oda never stated that magma is hotter than fire.

But akainu never specifically stated that.He could've meant that simply magama>fire which is the more likely choice since he didn't add anything to it. besides he said that "it even burns fire" which doesn't make any sense unless he really meant that lava>fire

 

[Izou Xaxa]

Even if i like Crocodile i must say that Ace wins here

 

[bajram]

What we have here are two scenarios for this situation:

1. Ace could have used Haki, but chose not to, which is pretty bad writing because there was no reason for Ace to hold back Haki against an opponent he knows he can't touch without Haki and he's trying to outright murder.

2. Ace can't use Haki, Oda making it so so that he could reveal the nature of Teach's fruit to not need Haki.

I'm gonna go with the latter until we get some kind of confirmation in the manga that Ace has Busoshoku Haki.

Well I pretty much agree with ur scenarios here though haki wasnt that advanced in the story back then in the 400s chapters as it is now and it was a pretty undefined concept back then though his words still look pretty convincing that he would be able to use attack that overpowers logia , so I think I will go with the first scenario here but probably this will remain a ? to us for the rest of the story, ace is gone and has no impact left in the story, I dont think we will ever know on how good was ace at haki, sadly.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Well I pretty much agree with ur scenarios here though haki wasnt that advanced in the story back then in the 400s chapters as it is now and it was a pretty undefined concept back then though his words still look pretty convincing that he would be able to use attack that overpowers logia , so I think I will go with the first scenario here but probably this will remain a ? to us for the rest of the story, ace is gone and has no impact left in the story, I dont think we will ever know on how good was ace at haki, sadly.

Ace is a cocky fellow. He was confident he could defeat Teach, and what happened? He was confident in clashing with Akainu and killing WB. Also, Oda had a good enough grasp of Haki pre-skip to have included it at some level in that fight.

Unfortunately, the last part of your post is right. Pretty much the only way I see us getting confirmation on Ace's Haki is if a member of WB's crew compares Luffy's to his when he encounters them again. Like, ¨Oh looks Ace's younger brother is catching up to him in Haki prowess¨ or ¨The kid managed to learn all three types of Haki, Ace never did follow that route.¨

 

[OG sama]

Even if i like Crocodile i must say that Ace wins here

Well a fight shouldn't be judged off who you like more right? But whos stronger don't you think? Sigh... crocodile fans.

 

[Punk Hazard]

But akainu never specifically stated that.He could've meant that simply magama>fire which is the more likely choice since he didn't add anything to it. besides he said that "it even burns fire" which doesn't make any sense unless he really meant that lava>fire

That was never explicitly stated, but it is what is most likely, as magma isn't hotter than fire and magma can indeed smother fire.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

That was never explicitly stated, but it is what is most likely, as magma isn't hotter than fire and magma can indeed smother fire.

but ace was logia,being smother wouldn't help in this very case IMO,Unless akainu used haki .

 

[Punk Hazard]

but ace was logia,being smother wouldn't help in this very case IMO,Unless akainu used haki .

You have to think of it in the same context as Luffy and Enel. Rubber insulates electricity. Therefore, the rubber fruit negates the effects of the electricity fruit, including intangibility. Magma smothers fire. Therefore, the magma fruit negates the effects of the fire fruit, including intangibility.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

You have to think of it in the same context as Luffy and Enel. Rubber insulates electricity. Therefore, the rubber fruit negates the effects of the electricity fruit, including intangibility. Magma smothers fire. Therefore, the magma fruit negates the effects of the fire fruit, including intangibility.

But in enel vs luffy it was hinted but in this case there was absolutely nothing that suggested this.But fair enough since that's how it works in real life I have to agree