[Discussion] A few things about Naruto and Sasuke's Powers

[conradoserpa]

Don't really get your point and yeah since it shows Naruto mirroring the hindu asura statue then it would be right for it to have three faces. I don't know about the whole juubi thing though

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Three faces

 

[ANiMUS]

that is your opinion on the rod its not fact, you can't possible know how difficult it is to turn it into another shape, the difficulty of obito turning it into a shield and sword could be the same as naruto turning it into rods.

and if I am correct, there default shape should be the ball, since every time they are being used they revert back to that shape, hence the name Truth seeking Ball

sasuke gained the rinnegan the ability to use each elements, its would be wise to assume that the sage other half of power gave naruto this ability.

the fact that naruto have the black orbs should indicate this since the 3rd hokage said so himself. madara have these orbs and he too don't use them for much, are you going to also assume that he is incapable of using them properly

1. Neither Madara nor Obito manually shaped there staffs to get it to that shape
2. they all have had staffs and balls
3. @bold bijuu chakra rasengans=all elements neither ashura nor Indra were said to have all elements and there is no where where it depicts Indra as having a rinnengan
4. The black orbs are a form of light and shadow release. Obito had a rinnengan and so did Madara. Madara also used his as a shield when necessary so there is no room for me to doubt his ability in manipulating his orbs. They both fall perfectly within the notions that i have stated.

On the other hand Naruto doesnt have a rinnengan and has only one nature transformation. From what has been given Naruto lacks what is required to properly utilize theTSBs. You can always hope, but given the info on what we know he shouldn't be able to.

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Three faces

Ok, now I see. I agree.

 

[Madara Uzumaki Uchiha]

Just forming the black orbs means naruto has all the nature elements. The orbs themselves are created by combing at least 4 chakra natures according to hiruzen.

The fact that naruto can manipulate the black orbs means he has some form of omni nature manipulation.

also, he can control the orbs remotely. He doesnot need chakra Arms anymore. He can just make a hand gesture and send a biju rasenshuriken flying.

You do know that he just pointed his hand towards the sky and 6 bijudama rasenshuriken went flying- ie he didnot throw them, they were controlled remotly. ( he could not have thrown them since he only had one hand up- the orbs flew on ther own )

He doesnot need to throw his bijudama rasenshurikens- they move on their own


Also- you didnot go into Naruto's life giving/healing ability- personally I think he will be able to breathe life into his shadow clones making them full blooded living beings

We already saw a lava rasenshuriken.... Next is a bijudama lava rasenshuriken.

Think about it, lava style made rasenshuriken strong enough to cut the god tree, what would lava style do to a bijudama rasenshuriken.

I think a lava style bijudama rasenshuriken. Would create enough lava in order to form new land masses ( island chains)

 

[ANiMUS]

Just forming the black orbs means naruto has all the nature elements. The orbs themselves are created by combing at least 4 chakra natures according to hiruzen.

The fact that naruto can manipulate the black orbs means he has some form of omni nature manipulation.

also, he can control the orbs remotely. He doesnot need chakra Arms anymore. He can just make a hand gesture and send a biju rasenshuriken flying.

You do know that he just pointed his hand towards the sky and 6 bijudama rasenshuriken went flying- ie he didnot throw them, they were controlled remotly. ( he could not have thrown them since he only had one hand up- the orbs flew on ther own )

He doesnot need to throw his bijudama rasenshurikens- they move on their own


Also- you didnot go into Naruto's life giving/healing ability- personally I think he will be able to breathe life into his shadow clones making them full blooded living beings.

Omnyodon= yin/ yang
Hiruzen was speaking of Obito's manipulation of the substance.(result of +4 nature transformation
Remotely controling the TSB only goes up to a certain distance

 

[Cael]

1. Neither Madara nor Obito manually shaped there staffs to get it to that shape
2. they all have had staffs and balls
3. @bold bijuu chakra rasengans=all elements neither ashura nor Indra were said to have all elements and there is no where where it depicts Indra as having a rinnengan
4. The black orbs are a form of light and shadow release. Obito had a rinnengan and so did Madara. Madara also used his as a shield when necessary so there is no room for me to doubt his ability in manipulating his orbs. They both fall perfectly within the notions that i have stated.

On the other hand Naruto doesnt have a rinnengan and has only one nature transformation. From what has been given Naruto lacks what is required to properly utilize theTSBs. You can always hope, but given the info on what we know he shouldn't be able to.



Ok, now I see. I agree.

1.Here is a picture of madara turning the ball into a staff

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2. I never said they didn't have staff or ball, I only pointed out that the orignal shape of the staff is the ball, because how would

you said the staff is default and that it just comes that way, well here is a picture of obito turning the black orb into a staff

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3
.I never said anything about Indra nor ashura, I only stated that rinnegan gives the person the ability to use all 5 elements and that it would be wise to assume that naruto being the body of the sage and having half the sage power is also able to use all 5 elements as well.

4. Here we see the 3rd hokage saying that the black orb consist of maybe 4 or more elements

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[ANiMUS]

1.Here is a picture of madara turning the ball into a staff

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2. I never said they didn't have staff or ball, I only pointed out that the orignal shape of the staff is the ball, because how would

you said the staff is default and that it just comes that way, well here is a picture of obito turning the black orb into a staff

You must be registered for see images

3
.I never said anything about Indra nor ashura, I only stated that rinnegan gives the person the ability to use all 5 elements and that it would be wise to assume that naruto being the body of the sage and having half the sage power is also able to use all 5 elements as well.

4. Here we see the 3rd hokage saying that the black orb consist of maybe 4 or more elements

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Busy will answer in an hour

 

[Madara Uzumaki Uchiha]

Omnyodon= yin/ yang
Hiruzen was speaking of Obito's manipulation of the substance.(result of +4 nature transformation
Remotely controling the TSB only goes up to a certain distance

The balls that hit hiruzen weren't omnyouton.

We don't know yet if the Gudou dama are omnyouton or it they are like the initial black orbs obito used.


Omnyouton is ying/yang - it is a ying yang Justu that erases ninjustu. We don't know if naruto is using omnyouton yet because he has yet to erase ninjustu.

Obito's initial orbs were just 4 nature releases combined

We know obito didnot initially use ying/yang spheres ( omnyouton) because hiruzen reformed from his attack.

.

 

[Xantai]

Narutos power is based on my yoton power, I suppose

 

[ANiMUS]

The balls that hit hiruzen weren't omnyouton.

We don't know yet if the Gudou dama are omnyouton or it they are like the initial black orbs obito used.


Omnyouton is yin/yang - it is a ying yang Justu that erases ninjustu. We don't know if naruto is using omnyouton yet because he has yet to erase ninjustu.

Obito's initial orbs were just 4 nature releases combined

We know obito didnot initially use ying/yang spheres ( omnyouton) because hiruzen reformed from his attack.

.

1.Here is a picture of madara turning the ball into a staff

Spoiler

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2. I never said they didn't have staff or ball, I only pointed out that the orignal shape of the staff is the ball, because how would

you said the staff is default and that it just comes that way, well here is a picture of obito turning the black orb into a staff

You must be registered for see images

3
.I never said anything about Indra nor ashura, I only stated that rinnegan gives the person the ability to use all 5 elements and that it would be wise to assume that naruto being the body of the sage and having half the sage power is also able to use all 5 elements as well.

4. Here we see the 3rd hokage saying that the black orb consist of maybe 4 or more elements

Spoiler

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This is pretty much my point. When Obito became the Juubi Jinchuuriki his staff took on an original set form. For Naruto that form are his rods.
The time before Obito went and became full Juubi Jinchuuriki he was apparently utilizing an imperfect version of the omnyoton since it lacked the negating affect because they were pretty much fluid TBB (since the exploded). However what Naruto, Obito and Madara are utilizing is in fact omnyoton and the fact that Obito manipulated it the way that he did when he was berserk means that the technique still utilizes the same form of nature manipulation.

Also Sasuke Rinnengan= Naruto Bijuu chakras (6 Path Sage Mode)=all elements, the only thing is Naruto's utilizing of other elements is not from his own ability, but that of the bijuu contained within him. Therefore he can't utilize four elements because he draws out the bijuu chakras individually

 

[saw2097]

I agree with all but the orbs part, just to have them requires four chakra natures at once, I think the reason he isn't using them a lot is because they aren't really useful in this situation.

But other than that I agree with everything else you said.

 

[ANiMUS]

I agree with all but the orbs part, just to have them requires four chakra natures at once, I think the reason he isn't using them a lot is because they aren't really useful in this situation.

But other than that I agree with everything else you said.

Thats fine, I appreciate the input.

Even though I place myself on one side of the argument as I continue defending my point I begin to gain a much deeper understanding then before. I don't know about saying u need all 4 elements to have them, but the orbs r a product of the six path Sage Mode. This sage mode requires all of the 9 bijuu chakra's and therefore the orbs probably have all the elements (not just 4) since the bijuu chakras contain the elements. The rest is probably up to the user and since Obito and Madara have the rinnengan they have no limit in terms of nature transformations, but it is most likely that Naruto utilizes the orbs by bringing forth the different bijuu chakras already contained within them.

Its kinda interesting that there are originally 9 of them.

I am a freaking genius XD

 

[Polarbearfrost]

Very interesting ......sig

 

[ANiMUS]

Very interesting ......sig

thanks, u should watch the anime.

 

[akabara the vampire king]

you're wrong about the nature manipulation part,it ain't the bijuus doing that it is naruto.IMO the bijuus just give him raw elemental chakra but the one shaping it and materializing its nature is naruto because for bijuus to do nature manipulation they have to take over the host or the host have to turn into them just like when kurama first gave kakashi chakra it has to switch place with naruto,after when naruto learned to do that he didn't need to switch anymore just draw kurama's chakra mix it with his own and change it to match everyone's in the SA.So the same thing is what happening whenever naruto use a bijuu natural element.In conclusion a bijuu can't do nature manipulation inside the host body without being in control but it can give him the means to do that and if it's a perfect jinchuriki it's even better they can draw it out at whim like Bee's ink.Don't fool yourself naruto is the one creating lava based on Son raw nature chakra not Son creating lava fron inside him and adding it to his rasengan thus,Naruto can manipulate whatever element he wants to,he doesn't have just one element but all the bijuus' element are his own as long they are sealed within him.Naruto is a genius when it comes to nature and shape manipulation he just learned and used lava and magnet release in mere seconds.Sorry for the errors,English ain't my first langage I speak french

 

[ANiMUS]

you're wrong about the nature manipulation part,it ain't the bijuus doing that it is naruto.IMO the bijuus just give him raw elemental chakra but the one shaping it and materializing its nature is naruto because for bijuus to do nature manipulation they have to take over the host or the host have to turn into them just like when kurama first gave kakashi chakra it has to switch place with naruto,after when naruto learned to do that he didn't need to switch anymore just draw kurama's chakra mix it with his own and change it to match everyone's in the SA.So the same thing is what happening whenever naruto use a bijuu natural element.In conclusion a bijuu can't do nature manipulation inside the host body without being in control but it can give him the means to do that and if it's a perfect jinchuriki it's even better they can draw it out at whim like Bee's ink.Don't fool yourself naruto is the one creating lava based on Son raw nature chakra not Son creating lava fron inside him and adding it to his rasengan thus,Naruto can manipulate whatever element he wants to,he doesn't have just one element but all the bijuus' element are his own as long they are sealed within him.Naruto is a genius when it comes to nature and shape manipulation he just learned and used lava and magnet release in mere seconds.Sorry for the errors,English ain't my first langage I speak french

Actually, the bijuu is the one that gives Naruto the chakra and he in turn forms it into a rasengan variant.

Nature Transformation (性質変化, Seishitsu Henka; English TV "Change in Chakra Nature") is an advanced form of chakra control. It entails the moulding and defining of one's chakra into an innate type of chakra nature, altering its properties and characteristics. That phase is done by the bijuu since this is simply molding chakra.

shape transformation allows a ninja to change the actual shape and actions of the chakra, altering its abilities. This phase is done by Naruto. Hence Naruto doesn't have multiple nature transformations, but just one and one shape manipulation as well while we r at it.

 

[so12p]

thanks, u should watch the anime.

Sorry to disagree, but IMO several of your points are incorrect. Naruto has used the orbs easily and effortlessly (e.g., he changed two to batons a beat up Madara with them. Also, his rasenshurigans have nearly always hit the mark. Not only did he take out the tree (stated target), but he has also demonstrated that he can create and effectively use multiple mini rasenshurigans.

With respect to kuruma, chakra arms, etc., I think you are confusing can't with haven't. Just because he has not used something in recent chapters does mean he no longer can use a power. To the contrary, every power he has used has been more capable than it was preSO6P meeting. It is more consistent to assume he has not lost any power and that when he uses chakra arms again, the too will be more powerful.

Lastly, it is not clear why Kishi is showing bijuu interaction on some of Naruto's moves, but it may simply be to show respect that naruto has for the bijuus as friends, or possibly to reinforce the central theme of cooperation (vs. Suckske's one man show attitude).

 

[ANiMUS]

Sorry to disagree, but IMO several of your points are incorrect. Naruto has used the orbs easily and effortlessly (e.g., he changed two to batons a beat up Madara with them. Also, his rasenshurigans have nearly always hit the mark. Not only did he take out the tree (stated target), but he has also demonstrated that he can create and effectively use multiple mini rasenshurigans.

With respect to kuruma, chakra arms, etc., I think you are confusing can't with haven't. Just because he has not used something in recent chapters does mean he no longer can use a power. To the contrary, every power he has used has been more capable than it was preSO6P meeting. It is more consistent to assume he has not lost any power and that when he uses chakra arms again, the too will be more powerful.

Lastly, it is not clear why Kishi is showing bijuu interaction on some of Naruto's moves, but it may simply be to show respect that naruto has for the bijuus as friends, or possibly to reinforce the central theme of cooperation (vs. Suckske's one man show attitude).

If u think I am incorrect then prove me wrong. U have shown no proof to disprove my conjectures. Also as far as the batons I have already shown that just like Madara and Obito when Naruto gained Juubi power two of his orbs took the set form of batons, just like Madara and Obito's staffs. Its a default setting

 

[Rikudou Sennin balls]

Naruto has the ability to use all elements.
magnet release is yet to be used but it could be probably said to be earth and maybe wind
lava release is fire and earth.
Naruto can use water from the 3 tails. The 2 tails uses fire too.
So Naruto has the potential to use. Earth, water, wind and fire.

The thing is he's just became the jinchuriki of all the tailed beast and asking them to help him mold his power would be eaier to.

Its also assumed that Sasuke could use ever element too because it's the rinnegans most basic ability and Sasuke also has a part of the RS chakra.