A factor Orochimaru fans to not consider when they give him edo tensei

[Sennin of Logic]

Actually there is, we call him CURRENT Orochimaru.

/thread

Current Orochimaru already has all 4 hokage edos activated at full power, Current Orochimaru has Hashirama as his weakness. [THREAD] Orochimaru knowing that Hashirama would not be controlled and not having him at full power already does not exist.

 

[RicardoA]

As an Orochimaru fan, i have to say i'm aware of his limited use of Edo Tensei IF he's not fighting as a good guy.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

As an Orochimaru fan, i have to say i'm aware of his limited use of Edo Tensei IF he's not fighting as a good guy.

Sorry if I generalized. I'm fully aware that there are always exceptions within groups.

 

[Prestonyoko]

Current Orochimaru already has all 4 hokage edos activated at full power, Current Orochimaru has Hashirama as his weakness. [THREAD] Orochimaru knowing that Hashirama would not be controlled and not having him at full power already does not exist.

Hashirama at his weakness? Hashirama won't listen him but he can call him back whenever he pleases. Its not like he totally broke control like Madara.

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Thats all Orochimaru has to do to Hashirama like Kabuto.

[THREAD]

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Hashirama at his weakness? Hashirama won't listen him but he can call him back whenever he pleases. Its not like he totally broke control like Madara.

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Thats all Orochimaru has to do to Hashirama like Kabuto.

[THREAD]

Deidera was completely within the power of Kabuto. It's just that he didn't restrain him at that point in time.

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Orochimaru knows he has no control over Hashirama. And yes, he did totally break control.

 

[KidGamer65]

I hope you know that Orochimaru doesn't have to summon every Edo in his arsenal, meaning he doesn't have to summon Hashirama if he doesn't want to, so people not including Edo Hashirama in fights where Orochimaru is allowed Edo Tensei.

There's no such thing as an Orochimaru who knew that Hashirama could not be controlled. There's no Orochimaru where Hashirama wasn't one of the edos he's used. This makes him a hypothetical character like "Prime Nagato" and "Alive Minato with Kurama."

And this doesn't make sense either. Characters don't start off with their summoning out in VS threads unless specifically stated. Current Orochimaru knows that Hashirama can't be controlled, so if he's put in a VS situation where Edo Tensei is allowed, he doesn't need to summon Hashirama.

 

[Prestonyoko]

Deidera was completely within the power of Kabuto. It's just that he didn't restrain him at that point in time.

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Orochimaru knows he has no control over Hashirama. And yes, he did totally break control.

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Madara says it all. He broke total control.

Hashirama just doesn't listen to him. Can still be called back.

Lol

 

[Sennin of Logic]

I hope you know that Orochimaru doesn't have to summon every Edo in his arsenal, meaning he doesn't have to summon Hashirama if he doesn't want to, so people not including Edo Hashirama in fights where Orochimaru is allowed Edo Tensei.



And this doesn't make sense either. Characters don't start off with their summoning out in VS threads unless specifically stated. Current Orochimaru knows that Hashirama can't be controlled, so if he's put in a VS situation where Edo Tensei is allowed, he doesn't need to summon Hashirama.

Only if a specific VS debate sets up a condition where he can do that. No one can say "Current Orochimaru is at this spot in top 10 because of his edos." The reason being that current Orochimaru has 1, potentially 3 edos he cannot control. I rank character by when they were at their strongest in the manga. In the manga, there's no such thing as Orochimaru who only summoned only Minato, Tobirama, and Hiruzen. In the manga, he summoned all of them. So unless we make specific conditions where that is not the case, Orochimaru is stuck with Hashirama as his weakness.


Yes, but he'd have to trigger the release, and that doesn't work out immediately. That's also assuming Hashirama gives Orochimaru the chance to release it. Let's not forget that if Orochimaru has to release edo tensei, he's also creating an opening to attack by his opponent.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Orochimaru fans tend to think that Orochimary solos almost all of the NV because of the edo hokages. However, that's not really the case. Orochimaru summoned all the hokages. If you use the edo hokages, you also have to go along with the fact that if the ninja he's fighting is a good guy (Naruto or Sasuke for instance), Hashirama will overpower Orochimaru's control and go over to their side. So in a way, Orochimaru's edo hokages means that any good and powerful ninja is automatically stronger than Orochimaru if you want to use edos. Just a thought


Edit: If you exclude Hashirama from Orochimaru's edos, you're holding a double standard. By choosing Orochimaru with edo hokages, you're choosing Orochimaru after the events of "the ones that know everything." It's like saying "Let's give Sasuke all his MS powers with perfectly good eyesight." Orochimaru knowing that Hashirama cannot be controlled is a hypothetical character.

So your saying he can't pick and choose which kages he wants to summon?

 

[Sennin of Logic]

So your saying he can't pick and choose which kages he wants to summon?

Not unless there's a VS match condition specifically saying that he can. The only time he had access to the edos in the first place in the manga, was when he wanted them at full power. You can't say "Current Orochimaru does not have this weakness." Now, if at some point in the manga he had the materials for edos after this war, and was about to fight someone, he would have the option to not have Hashirama.

 

[Untamed]

if you want to get technical only 2 Edo Tensei summoning versions of Orochimaru exists.

Version 1: 33% Edo Hashirama/ Tobirama
Version 2: Uncontrollable Hashirama/Tobirama & upgraded Hiruzen/Minato.

Version 1 edo can only perform the jutsu they used in the Hiruzen fight.
Version 2 edo have not been commanded in battle by Orochimaru yet (free to do as they please unless Oro restricts them.)

Factors for Version 2 Edo Tensei
Orochimaru only summoned them, he has not commanded them to perform any actions/jutsu yet.
However: if Oro has control of them and uses them in battle, Minato cannot perform KCM because Oro doesn't know he has it.
The Edo don't like or want to be controlled, Tobirama only has been resisted, but was restricted by Oro's commands.
Hashirama broke free. Orochimaru didn't summon them from coffins so if he summons them then all 4 come.
These Edo have their conscience so they can help their opponent by exposing their own weaknesses.[never happened]

 

[Sennin of Logic]

if you want to get technical only 2 Edo Tensei summoning versions of Orochimaru exists.

Version 1: 33% Edo Hashirama/ Tobirama
Version 2: Uncontrollable Hashirama/Tobirama & upgraded Hiruzen/Minato.

Version 1 edo can only perform the jutsu they used in the Hiruzen fight.
Version 2 edo have not been commanded in battle by Orochimaru yet (free to do as they please unless Oro restricts them.)

Factors for Version 2 Edo Tensei
Orochimaru only summoned them, he has not commanded them to perform any actions/jutsu yet.
However: if Oro has control of them and uses them in battle, Minato cannot perform KCM because Oro doesn't know he has it.
The Edo don't like or want to be controlled, Tobirama only has been resisted, but was restricted by Oro's commands.
Hashirama broke free. Orochimaru didn't summon them from coffins so if he summons them then all 4 come.
These Edo have their conscience so they can help their opponent by exposing their own weaknesses.[never happened]

Thank you. This is what I meant to say.

 

[Meekz89]

Well I guess your missing the part where Oro can take their conscience away. So that their just fighting machines.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Well I guess your missing the part where Oro can take their conscience away. So that their just fighting machines.

You're forgetting that requires a kunai in the neck. Do you think Orochimaru is capable of putting a kumai in Hashirama's neck before being brutally beaten?

 

[KidGamer65]

Only if a specific VS debate sets up a condition where he can do that. No one can say "Current Orochimaru is at this spot in top 10 because of his edos." The reason being that current Orochimaru has 1, potentially 3 edos he cannot control. I rank character by when they were at their strongest in the manga. In the manga, there's no such thing as Orochimaru who only summoned only Minato, Tobirama, and Hiruzen. In the manga, he summoned all of them. So unless we make specific conditions where that is not the case, Orochimaru is stuck with Hashirama as his weakness.

In the manga he summoned all of them, but in the manga its also shown you can choose which ones you summon, that's a fact right there. Him summoning Hashirama once doesn't mean he needs to summon all of them at once every time he wants to summon one.

This explanation doesn't even make one bit of sense. Are you talking about a ranking here or a VS situation? If you are talking about a ranking, then you have no choice to exclude Hashirama from Orochimaru's power as Hashirama can't be controlled so he can't be counted toward Orochimaru's power on a ranking list. If you are talking about a VS situation, its already fact he can summon whatever Edo he wants to summon. Your "weakness" for his Edo Tensei has no bearing in a ranking situation and it can be prevented in a VS situation.

Yes, but he'd have to trigger the release, and that doesn't work out immediately. That's also assuming Hashirama gives Orochimaru the chance to release it. Let's not forget that if Orochimaru has to release edo tensei, he's also creating an opening to attack by his opponent.

Trigger what release? He doesn't start with his Edos summoned. No one starts with their summons summoned, ever, nor do they start in their strongest modes. I don't know why Orochimaru is the exception for you but its clear that he shouldn't be. He summons his Edos first, simple as that. I don't know how hard it is to understand that.

Not unless there's a VS match condition specifically saying that he can. The only time he had access to the edos in the first place in the manga, was when he wanted them at full power. You can't say "Current Orochimaru does not have this weakness." Now, if at some point in the manga he had the materials for edos after this war, and was about to fight someone, he would have the option to not have Hashirama.

Not even sure if serious now. Do you know how summoning works? Cause I'm pretty sure you do, and anyone who knows how summoning works shouldn't be arguing something as flawed as this.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

In the manga he summoned all of them, but in the manga its also shown you can choose which ones you summon, that's a fact right there. Him summoning Hashirama once doesn't mean he needs to summon all of them at once every time he wants to summon one.

This explanation doesn't even make one bit of sense. Are you talking about a ranking here or a VS situation? If you are talking about a ranking, then you have no choice to exclude Hashirama from Orochimaru's power as Hashirama can't be controlled so he can't be counted toward Orochimaru's power on a ranking list. If you are talking about a VS situation, its already fact he can summon whatever Edo he wants to summon. Your "weakness" for his Edo Tensei has no bearing in a ranking situation and it can be prevented in a VS situation.




Trigger what release? He doesn't start with his Edos summoned. No one starts with their summons summoned, ever, nor do they start in their strongest modes. I don't know why Orochimaru is the exception for you but its clear that he shouldn't be. He summons his Edos first, simple as that. I don't know how hard it is to understand that.



Not even sure if serious now. Do you know how summoning works? Cause I'm pretty sure you do, and anyone who knows how summoning works shouldn't be arguing something as flawed as this.

I guess your first paragraph is right, but I have an issue with your last paragraph. What I'm saying is that manga wise, the cat's out of the bag. He didn't set it up where he only summoned Hashirama. There are only 2 Orochimaru's in the manga with full power edo hokages. 1. He has not summoned them yet, but doesn't realize that Hashirama can break free from his control. or 2. He's already summoned Hashirama, and he will turn on him. The idea of Orochimaru knowing Hashirama can break free and doesn't already have Hashirama in play does not exist in the manga. That's what I'm saying.


Now, if he knew in the first place, I'd agree with your last paragraph. In any case, I get your first paragraph and I guess your right overall.


Just as a message to everyone. I'm not showing favoritism. I hate a person's power being measured by a resurected person. It just seems so twisted. Even if it's a character from a series I like (like Shiro Emiya from fate/stay night). In any case, I've had enough of this debate.

 

[KidGamer65]

I guess your first paragraph is right, but I have an issue with your last paragraph. What I'm saying is that manga wise, the cat's out of the bag. He didn't set it up where he only summoned Hashirama. There are only 2 Orochimaru's in the manga with full power edo hokages. 1. He has not summoned them yet, but doesn't realize that Hashirama can break free from his control. or 2. He's already summoned Hashirama, and he will turn on him. The idea of Orochimaru knowing Hashirama can break free and doesn't already have Hashirama in play does not exist in the manga. That's what I'm saying.

After summoning him once, he knows that if he is summoned again, he'll be able to turn on him if he pleases, so he can simply choose not to call him out again. The fact that in a VS situation he doesn't start with his summons already out, but he is still the same Orochimaru from the most recent manga chapter makes this point of yours moot. Him having Hashirama in play now is irrelevant as he doesn't start with Edos in play for any VS match, and its irrelevant in a ranking.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

After summoning him once, he knows that if he is summoned again, he'll be able to turn on him if he pleases, so he can simply choose not to call him out again. The fact that in a VS situation he doesn't start with his summons already out, but he is still the same Orochimaru from the most recent manga chapter makes this point of yours moot. Him having Hashirama in play now is irrelevant as he doesn't start with Edos in play for any VS match, and its irrelevant in a ranking.

Ok, but what if Orochimaru like say, dies in this arc or looses the materials needed to summon edo tensei hokages?

 

[KidGamer65]

Ok, but what if Orochimaru like say, dies in this arc or looses the materials needed to summon edo tensei hokages?

His death doesn't matter as we take characters from their best point, and its impossible for him to lose the materials needed to summon them since he's already performed the ritual, now all it takes is a clap of the hand to bring out their caskets just how he did it in Part 1. This also relates back to the point of us taking characters from their best point.

Though if the latter were to happen (if it were possible) and someone referenced Current Orochimaru (As in the Orochimaru would hypothetically lost the Edo Hokage), then it'd be without the Edo Hokage.

 

[Nattana]

Orochimaru haters act as if he MUST summon Hashirama everytime he uses ET. I mean... just stop.

Moreover, Orochimaru can simply remove their minds and use them as killing machines, just like he did in P1 with talismans and like he said he could do in the War Arc.

The only reason Hashirama could break Oro's weaker restraint (I'm saying weaker, since he said himself he could strengthen it if he wanted to) was because Orochimaru LET HIM have his mind and memory. If he summons him brainless, he's not breaking out of anything. People need to deal with the fact, that Edo Hokage ARE Oro's power.