a case for drug legalization

[ZK]

Oh okay I think there's a little bit of mix up with the terms here. You are talking about legalization when what happened in Portugal was decriminalization. I actually thought they meant the same thing. I checked what happened with Portugal:

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and yes the new law indeed has positive effects on the society and I support it, but it's not the same thing as legalizing drugs completely:

I know the two things are different. I'm saying that I believe that legalization will be maintain and even enhance the effects of decriminalization. Drugs will be government-inspected and approved, thus minimizing the chance that the drugs you take have other substances in them. Criminalizing substances never works; we tried with alcohol and got a black market and even more alcoholics. Same with drugs.

 

[Cabbage]

I'd rather ban alcohol and cigarettes instead of legalizing any more garbage.

Wisconsin will riot and burn itself down to the ground if this occurred

 

[Hawker]

I know the two things are different. I'm saying that I believe that legalization will be maintain and even enhance the effects of decriminalization. Drugs will be government-inspected and approved, thus minimizing the chance that the drugs you take have other substances in them. Criminalizing substances never works; we tried with alcohol and got a black market and even more alcoholics. Same with drugs.

I would agree but if you say that applies to hard drugs as well then I don't agree. You can't compare alcohol and hard drugs. Hard drugs are a very different commodity than alcohol and most other drugs, because they cause a compulsive irrational demand - addiction. Its not really democratic demand, because the supply is causing the demand, its not "free-market", because the addict isnt being rational, he cant stop using the drug. The only way he will stop is if there is no more supply.

Alcohol does not cause addiction after the first use while meth can cause serious symptoms after first use.

And if you want all drugs to be legal, then do you also see no problem in an enviroment where children are taught that drugs are legal = right in their mind, and they can buy them if they want?

I never understood why people are comparing decriminalization of alcohol in the 20th century to decriminalization of hard drugs. Alcohol is universally accepted as a commodity for everyone and drugs are labeled as the commodity of the poor and homeless people. If you'd legalize hard drugs then that label would slowly fade away and using hard drugs would become more acceptable, which is not a good thing as I stated above.

Also imagine if drugs were easily made and legal like you suggest. Maybe food or drink producers would start using drugs in their product as an additive to make you addicted and buy more of their product! Maybe there would be heroin or crack cocaine in your childrens energy drinks or candies? This happened in the 19th century when some of the hard drugs which are illegal now were legal then.

 

[chopstickchakra]

[video=youtube;nLsCC0LZxkY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLsCC0LZxkY[/video]


1. Less people get shot(according to friedman 10,000 a year less)

2. Drug dealing is no longer a viable means of income as the supply will drastically decrease the demand

3. The cartels will go out of business and stop sending illegal camels over the border.

4. With no more cartel income, they can't afford to hold power in Mexico any more destroying their hold of Corruption in the government

5. More Tax revenue for the US

Sounds like a win win for me

4 won't happen that easily, they'll find new ways to make money and keep power.

 

[slimreaper]

I would agree but if you say that applies to hard drugs as well then I don't agree. You can't compare alcohol and hard drugs. Hard drugs are a very different commodity than alcohol and most other drugs, because they cause a compulsive irrational demand - addiction. Its not really democratic demand, because the supply is causing the demand, its not "free-market", because the addict isnt being rational, he cant stop using the drug. The only way he will stop is if there is no more supply.

Alcohol does not cause addiction after the first use while meth can cause serious symptoms after first use.

And if you want all drugs to be legal, then do you also see no problem in an enviroment where children are taught that drugs are legal = right in their mind, and they can buy them if they want?

I never understood why people are comparing decriminalization of alcohol in the 20th century to decriminalization of hard drugs. Alcohol is universally accepted as a commodity for everyone and drugs are labeled as the commodity of the poor and homeless people. If you'd legalize hard drugs then that label would slowly fade away and using hard drugs would become more acceptable, which is not a good thing as I stated above.

Also imagine if drugs were easily made and legal like you suggest. Maybe food or drink producers would start using drugs in their product as an additive to make you addicted and buy more of their product! Maybe there would be heroin or crack cocaine in your childrens energy drinks or candies? This happened in the 19th century when some of the hard drugs which are illegal now were legal then.

so your argument is... the only thing preventing normal people from using hardcore drugs is they're illegal? If so id'd disagree with this premise. Even so, isn't the decrease in petty crime and deaths worth a few more addicts.

My stealing thing is this... An addict is going to fund their habit no matter what. I'd rather make it available for them as opposed to them having to steal to keep up the habit


as for chopstick^^ What killed the mob in America?

 

[Hawker]

so your argument is... the only thing preventing normal people from using hardcore drugs is they're illegal? If so id'd disagree with this premise. Even so, isn't the decrease in petty crime and deaths worth a few more addicts.

My stealing thing is this... An addict is going to fund their habit no matter what. I'd rather make it available for them as opposed to them having to steal to keep up the habit


as for chopstick^^ What killed the mob in America?

Illegal = limited availability
Legal = available for all

Legalizing hard drugs has so many downsides to it that shouldn't be done. I think the way of Portugal is the right way. Decriminalization, but not legalization. Meaning you take away the punishment part while focusing on the actual health issues, but you still limit the availability by keeping the drugs illegal.

 

[slimreaper]

Illegal = limited availability
Legal = available for all

Legalizing hard drugs has so many downsides to it that shouldn't be done. I think the way of Portugal is the right way. Decriminalization, but not legalization. Meaning you take away the punishment part while focusing on the actual health issues, but you still limit the availability by keeping the drugs illegal.

I disagree that availability is limited with drugs being illegal. Drug Cartels wouldn't be booming if thier products weren't readily available for everyone who wants them

 

[Scooby Doo]

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OT: I'm against drugs.

 

[Hawker]

I disagree that availability is limited with drugs being illegal. Drug Cartels wouldn't be booming if thier products weren't readily available for everyone who wants them

You missed my point. Which was that the as the product would became legal, it's avaibility to the average joe would increase, and also the demand would increase.

 

[slimreaper]

You missed my point. Which was that the as the product would became legal, it's avaibility to the average joe would increase, and also the demand would increase.

No i didn't, I just didn't agree with it. If the average joe wants hardcore drugs he can go find them. If heroin was readily available would you personally use it? If your answer is no which i suspect it will be, then you're like the majority of people who wouldn't use it just because it's legal

 

[Hawker]

No i didn't, I just didn't agree with it. If the average joe wants hardcore drugs he can go find them. If heroin was readily available would you personally use it? If your answer is no which i suspect it will be, then you're like the majority of people who wouldn't use it just because it's legal

Lol to be honest if speed or heroin would be legal there would be a pretty good chance that I would be willing to try them. I suspect this would be the case with alot of people. And like I said, f.e. meth can get you addicted after first try so it really isn't a good thing to legalize hard drugs.

I also don't think you get the psychological aspect of this. Hard drugs are considered as the commodity for junkies, for weak people and for poor people. Add to that only criminals sell them. Most of the population don't know criminals. So you saying "if they want them they can go find them" isn't that simple. There's a clear line there, and when it's crossed (legalization)it's much easier for people get their hands on the drugs and get addicted. For the record I don't know any place where I can get drugs in here. Nor do I know anybody.

 

[slimreaper]

Lol to be honest if speed or heroin would be legal there would be a pretty good chance that I would be willing to try them. I suspect this would be the case with alot of people. And like I said, f.e. meth can get you addicted after first try so it really isn't a good thing to legalize hard drugs.

I also don't think you get the psychological aspect of this. Hard drugs are considered as the commodity for junkies, for weak people and for poor people. Add to that only criminals sell them. Most of the population don't know criminals. So you saying "if they want them they can go find them" isn't that simple. There's a clear line there, and when it's crossed (legalization)it's much easier for people get their hands on the drugs and get addicted. For the record I don't know any place where I can get drugs in here. Nor do I know anybody.

I think the positives out weigh a few extra addicts. The 10,000 drug related killings in america a year would make is worth it for me

 

[Hawker]

I think the positives out weigh a few extra addicts. The 10,000 drug related killings in america a year would make is worth it for me

"few extra addicts". That's just your way trying to belittle the fact that there would be more addicts if hard drugs were illegal. And it doen'st just stop there. You get more addicts, you get more health issues, socio economic problems, unemployment, overdoses, violence, mental problems. Btw that 10,000 is just an estimate of a one researcher. For the issue to have credibilty this would have to be researched by many scientists and evaluated by other scientists. I don't think this is as thoughrougly studied so you could say that the 10,000 is a realistic estimate.

 

[slimreaper]

"few extra addicts". That's just your way trying to belittle the fact that there would be more addicts if hard drugs were illegal. And it doen'st just stop there. You get more addicts, you get more health issues, socio economic problems, unemployment, overdoses, violence, mental problems. Btw that 10,000 is just an estimate of a one researcher. For the issue to have credibilty this would have to be researched by many scientists and evaluated by other scientists. I don't think this is as thoughrougly studied so you could say that the 10,000 is a realistic estimate.

you're speculating, yet questioning the number i bring(quoted by Milton Friedman)

here ya go

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Eliminate those deaths


The pros out weight the cons

 

[Hawker]

you're speculating, yet questioning the number i bring(quoted by Milton Friedman)

here ya go

You must be registered for see links

Eliminate those deaths


The pros out weight the cons

Sure I'm speculating, but it's only rational to conclude that as the availability increases so does the demand. And I'm not actually arguing against the fact that there would be less deaths, but 10,000 is just an opinion of one person.

And your link doesn't prove they are all drug related. Mexico has a huge problem with the system and violence on it's on.

"To be sure, the homicides documented in Mexico cannot all be linked directly to the drug war" ,
"Some counts have blamed the drug war for as much as 55 percent of all homicides. Others have put the estimate as low as 34 percent. Yet those figures have likewise been criticized as unreliable"

Like I said, I think all drugs should be decriminalized as I see huge benefits for it economically and from the pov of crime control. I also think some of the drugs should be legalized, but not the hardest ones like: heroin, amphetamine, lsd, crack, methamphetamine. They just cause too massive addiction. I guess we just have to agree to disagree.