4th vs 2nd (Multiple Scenarios)

[DrProof]

Base Minato? Yeah. KCM Minato? It's debatable. But yeah, I don't see either of them being outright blitzed by the other's Hiraishin attacks. But I agree that Tobirama can win S2 and S3.......


Hell, he could probably even win S1 considering the most important things when using Hiraishin are reaction and striking speed, and Tobirama surpasses Minato in both. (reacting to and tagging Juubito)

Agreed. So many people outright downplay Tobirama as a lesser Minato when that isn't true at all IMO. While Minato might have the outright blunt offensive tactics, Tobirama is more versatile, and versatility overall can win matches. Not only is Tobirama faster (it's debatable I guess), and has better reactions, but he's smarter, and intelligence goes a long way.

Edo Tobirama is a monster overall though.

 

[KidGamer65]

Agreed. So many people outright downplay Tobirama as a lesser Minato when that isn't true at all IMO. While Minato might have the outright blunt offensive tactics, Tobirama is more versatile, and versatility overall can win matches. Not only is Tobirama faster (it's debatable I guess), and has better reactions, but he's smarter, and intelligence goes a long way.

Edo Tobirama is a monster overall though.

Minato was outright stated to have a better Shunshin than Minato, but the rest is true.

Yup, that Gojo is no joke when combined with instant teleportation.

 

[Great Master Minato]

Tobirama is Edo, and he can make clones, he can just do it himself. And lol @ him being a better teleporter when Hiraishin is Hiraishin. No difference between Minato and Tobirama's.

And yes he can make anything explode from anywhere as he would be controlling it. That's like asking if Kabuto can control Edos from a distance. The only thing is, he'll have to use his own or a clone's body.

Minato is an Edo too & the explosions are too slow to catch him, by the time that the tags start to explode Minato has left the AoE.

Better teleporter means he's more skilled with Hiraishin confirmed by DB.

 

[DrProof]

Minato is an Edo too & the explosions are too slow to catch him.

Better teleporter means he's more skilled with Hiraishin confirmed by DB.

Minato can't just run away.. That's basically forfeiting the battle. The explosions literally will go on forever, with an Edo body, Minato will be caught.

 

[Great Master Minato]

Minato can't just run away.. That's basically forfeiting the battle. The explosions literally will go on forever, with an Edo body, Minato will be caught.

GKF has an AoE & Minato can escape it with ease, even his summons can do it.

 

[DrProof]

GKF has an AoE & Minato can escape it with ease, even his summons can do it.

Exactly.. It has aoe, a large aoe. You mentioning that digs you in an even further hole. Minato not only has to focus on a never ending assault of GKF, but as well Tobirama's clones, and suiton assaults. Summons can't avoid GKF.. Not when it's constantly going off, or without warning..

 

[Great Master Minato]

Exactly.. It has aoe, a large aoe. You mentioning that digs you in an even further hole. Minato not only has to focus on a never ending assault of GKF, but as well Tobirama's clones, and suiton assaults. Summons can't avoid GKF.. Not when it's constantly going off, or without warning..

You're talking like Minato can't use clones, Minato doesn't have to worry about Tobirama's clones when his own clones can handle them.
As for GKF it's AoE isn't large enough to catch Minato, he already Shunshin'ed across Konoha so escaping GKF's AoE isn't that hard for him.
Gamakichi jumped at the top of Deity Gates which bypass GKF's AoE so yes summons can escape GKF's AoE.

 

[KidGamer65]

Minato is an Edo too & the explosions are too slow to catch him, by the time that the tags start to explode Minato has left the AoE.

Better teleporter means he's more skilled with Hiraishin confirmed by DB.

Minato being Edo too is irrelevant, and the explosions being too slow to catch him is false, at least when used by themselves, but if he initiates it and then teleports, Minato either gets caught, or he warps to another location, where Tobirama just rinses and repeats. Eventually he dies. As for the rest:

You're talking like Minato can't use clones, Minato doesn't have to worry about Tobirama's clones when his own clones can handle them.
As for GKF it's AoE isn't large enough to catch Minato, he already Shunshin'ed across Konoha so escaping GKF's AoE isn't that hard for him.
Gamakichi jumped at the top of Deity Gates which bypass GKF's AoE so yes summons can escape GKF's AoE.

:lol. Gojo was explicitly shown to be larger than the Gates, not to mention being able to cross that distance doesn't mean it can cross that distance before it gets blown up. And no, Minato did not Shunshin across Konoha. It's more likely that he teleported unless you are ready to admit that Base Minato has JJ level+ speed.

Which has nothing to do with teleportation speed or attack speed (thus irrelevant to the battle), and everything to do with how he uses it, and his extensions of it (Guiding Thunder/ST Barrier)

 

[Lord Tywin]

Didn't he need Doton Wall to slow down the BD? The only way he'd be able to replicate this would be via Rashomon or something, but even then it's iffy.

no never happened

No, it won't come down to stamina. It'll come down to Minato teleporting away from Mokujin's range and nuking it with Flash BD.

Every time Minato attempts to use flash BD Hashirama uses Tree World to redirect them.

 

[KidGamer65]

no never happened

Every time Minato attempts to use flash BD Hashirama uses Tree World to redirect them.

He clearly said "Prepare the Doton Wall". :lol

 

[DrProof]

Minato being Edo too is irrelevant, and the explosions being too slow to catch him is false, at least when used by themselves, but if he initiates it and then teleports, Minato either gets caught, or he warps to another location, where Tobirama just rinses and repeats. Eventually he dies. As for the rest:



:lol. Gojo was explicitly shown to be larger than the Gates, not to mention being able to cross that distance doesn't mean it can cross that distance before it gets blown up. And no, Minato did not Shunshin across Konoha. It's more likely that he teleported unless you are ready to admit that Base Minato has JJ level+ speed.

Which has nothing to do with teleportation speed or attack speed (thus irrelevant to the battle), and everything to do with how he uses it, and his extensions of it (Guiding Thunder/ST Barrier)

Body Flickered across Konoha? f*ck no.

 

[Lord Tywin]

He clearly said "Prepare the Doton Wall". :lol

Why would he need doton walls when JD was breaking them by just making a contact with them? Clones can make earth walls if you're that fixated on the need of doton walls.

 

[KidGamer65]

Why would he need doton walls when JD was breaking them by just making a contact with them? Clones can make earth walls if you're that fixated on the need of doton walls.

Go look at what happened in the Manga. The walls aren't for defense, they are too slow down the Bijuu Dama. :lol Not to mention the only reason it worked well in the Manga is because they had multiple people making multiple walls at once.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Go look at what happened in the Manga. The walls aren't for defense, they are too slow down the Bijuu Dama. :lol Not to mention the only reason it worked well in the Manga is because they had multiple people making multiple walls at once.

Hashirama makes 25wood clones all using earth wall while he himself uses tree world. There is tobirama that can teleport one.

 

[Great Master Minato]

Minato being Edo too is irrelevant, and the explosions being too slow to catch him is false, at least when used by themselves, but if he initiates it and then teleports, Minato either gets caught, or he warps to another location, where Tobirama just rinses and repeats. Eventually he dies. As for the rest:

:lol. Gojo was explicitly shown to be larger than the Gates, not to mention being able to cross that distance doesn't mean it can cross that distance before it gets blown up. And no, Minato did not Shunshin across Konoha. It's more likely that he teleported unless you are ready to admit that Base Minato has JJ level+ speed.

Which has nothing to do with teleportation speed or attack speed (thus irrelevant to the battle), and everything to do with how he uses it, and his extensions of it (Guiding Thunder/ST Barrier)

Are you suggesting that Minato had a marking up in the air? He was at the top of the Hokage Mountain then he suddenly spawn at top of Kyuubi on the other side of the village (actually Kyuubi was outside of the village's border) so he either Shunshin'ed there or he threw a Kunai, so we have too possibilities here...1) Minato has a godly Shunshin 2) he can throw a Kunai across the village before Kyuubi can form a BD (which is a fast process itself) either way Minato is capable of bypassing GKF's AoE with ease the only issue is he has to escape before he get caught in the blast which brings the next question...

Do GKF's tags explode faster than normal explosive tags? Minato was able to grab the piece of cloth that was wrapped around Naruto & threw it away while the tags were already began to explode so yeah explosive tags are way too slow for Minato.

Also Tobirama had to touch the Edo body to make it explode he even formed a Hand Sign, which proves GKF isn't a fast Jutsu hence Hashirama's clone had to subdue Juubito so Tobirama can execute GKF.

 

[KidGamer65]

Are you suggesting that Minato had a marking up in the air? He was at the top of the Hokage Mountain then he suddenly spawn at top of Kyuubi on the other side of the village (actually Kyuubi was outside of the village's border) so he either Shunshin'ed there or he threw a Kunai, so we have too possibilities here...1) Minato has a godly Shunshin 2) he can throw a Kunai across the village before Kyuubi can form a BD (which is a fast process itself) either way Minato is capable of bypassing GKF's AoE with ease the only issue is he has to escape before he get caught in the blast which brings the next question...

Don't know where the marking was nor do I care. Minato is not faster than the likes of Ay or Juubi Jins thus he did not Shunshin across Konoha in a second. Not even debatable.

Do GKF's tags explode faster than normal explosive tags? Minato was able to grab the piece of cloth that was wrapped around Naruto & threw it away while the tags were already began to explode so yeah explosive tags are way too slow for Minato.

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Yes guys, he's comparing a house sized explosion to an explosion that is far larger than the Gates, that are also far larger than the Bijuu. He's also comparing that to a blast teleported straight to him via Tobirama.

Also Tobirama had to touch the Edo body to make it explode he even formed a Hand Sign, which proves GKF isn't a fast Jutsu hence Hashirama's clone had to subdue Juubito so Tobirama can execute GKF.

It being too fast for Juubito is irrelevant in this case because Juubito is far faster than Minato. Terrible terrible example. And Tobirama simply ripped paper from his body and tossed it in the air. Where did he make a hand sign? Even if he did it's irrelevant.


At the end of the day, Minato has no way to defeat Tobirama while Tobirama can spam explosions that dwarfs gates that dwarfed the Bijuu.

 

[KidGamer65]

Hashirama makes 25wood clones all using earth wall while he himself uses tree world. There is tobirama that can teleport one.

The only reason the walls were that strong is because the Shinobi alliance linked together to do it. When Hashirama can come close to that after splitting his power 25 times then we can talk.

 

[Oblivionx]

Don't know where the marking was nor do I care. Minato is not faster than the likes of Ay or Juubi Jins thus he did not Shunshin across Konoha in a second. Not even debatable.

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Yes guys, he's comparing a house sized explosion to an explosion that is far larger than the Gates, that are also far larger than the Bijuu. He's also comparing that to a blast teleported straight to him via Tobirama.



It being too fast for Juubito is irrelevant in this case because Juubito is far faster than Minato. Terrible terrible example. And Tobirama simply ripped paper from his body and tossed it in the air. Where did he make a hand sign? Even if he did it's irrelevant.


At the end of the day, Minato has no way to defeat Tobirama while Tobirama can spam explosions that dwarfs gates that dwarfed the Bijuu.

lel... what is this? so much bias... XD just because minato's feats don't fit your context, we are going to ignore them? i thought db already cleared minato & Ay's shunshin is equal or something. and we didn't really saw JJ shunshins that much.. i only remember mindless jubito doing that and two hokages were ripped apart so minato's shunshin even being inferior still applies.
tobirama only played support role against JJ.. or are you saying SM madara's reactions were on par or even better than jubito? coz tobirama lost to SM madara and still managed to catch jubito in a good attack. Minato tired to go toe to toe with both obito and madara... and when tobirama tried that he too was reacted to and beaten down.
@2nd bold, he's comparing speed at which explosive tags burn. explosion doesn't matter because tags were already burning when minato acted to save naruto and those tags too were put there by a teleporter.
Minato has SM at his disposal too... and about that tobirama reacting to and tagging jubito.. didn't minato save naruto & sasuke from the same jubito? without getting half his body blown to pieces? You think he couldn't have saved himself? obito never attacked minato like he did to tobirama... both madara and obito counter attacked and when tobirama did that with SM madara, we know the results. Heck i don't understand how an ftg user was pinned down. you guys are just hyping tobirama over nothing. If he had such great reactions and speed, why was he pinned down by eyeless madara without even pushing him except that sneak attack? Unless you are going to argue that eyeless SM madara has better reflexes than jubito... all your points and hype is useless...
it's easier to react if you are on defensive, and only time, minato was hit, he was on offense.. minato even explained it himself when he told kid kakashi to not use raikiri as moving at great speed, it becomes difficult to react. tobirama only reacted on defense and minato did that too saving naruto and sasuke... and there is another instant too.. minato blocked against kicks from jubito from underground i.e unexpected...

 

[KidGamer65]

lel... what is this? so much bias... XD just because minato's feats don't fit your context, we are going to ignore them? i thought db already cleared minato & Ay's shunshin is equal or something. and we didn't really saw JJ shunshins that much.. i only remember mindless jubito doing that and two hokages were ripped apart so minato's shunshin even being inferior still applies.
tobirama only played support role against JJ.. or are you saying SM madara's reactions were on par or even better than jubito? coz tobirama lost to SM madara and still managed to catch jubito in a good attack. Minato tired to go toe to toe with both obito and madara... and when tobirama tried that he too was reacted to and beaten down.
@2nd bold, he's comparing speed at which explosive tags burn. explosion doesn't matter because tags were already burning when minato acted to save naruto and those tags too were put there by a teleporter.
Minato has SM at his disposal too... and about that tobirama reacting to and tagging jubito.. didn't minato save naruto & sasuke from the same jubito? without getting half his body blown to pieces? You think he couldn't have saved himself? obito never attacked minato like he did to tobirama... both madara and obito counter attacked and when tobirama did that with SM madara, we know the results. Heck i don't understand how an ftg user was pinned down. you guys are just hyping tobirama over nothing. If he had such great reactions and speed, why was he pinned down by eyeless madara without even pushing him except that sneak attack? Unless you are going to argue that eyeless SM madara has better reflexes than jubito... all your points and hype is useless...
it's easier to react if you are on defensive, and only time, minato was hit, he was on offense.. minato even explained it himself when he told kid kakashi to not use raikiri as moving at great speed, it becomes difficult to react. tobirama only reacted on defense and minato did that too saving naruto and sasuke... and there is another instant too.. minato blocked against kicks from jubito from underground i.e unexpected...

Except it's really that simple. Unless you think Minato is massively faster than any JJ, KCM Naruto, BM Naruto, Ay (which the Manga and DB outright show is false) there is no reason to believe that Minato Shunshin'd over to the Kyuubi in a second from the other end of the village. You talk about bias yet not only are you probably one of the most biased people when it comes Minato, you are defending a feat that you didn't see him perform, which bad logic at that.

-Says Minato and Ay are equal.
-Thinks Minato (and by extension Ay) can cross

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distance in a split second.

:lol My. Sides. Hurt. Bad.

Irrelevant. Madara catching Tobirama and Juubito being tagged by Tobirama doesn't make Madara faster than Tobirama when Madara wasn't in the same position Juubito was in. Juubito dashed at them, thus all Tobirama had to do was react. Tobirama was doing the attacking and had to take out Madara. Him being support is because he's too weak to fight head on, and so was Minato considering he got shat on when he rushed Obito. Not sure what point you are trying to make.

When Juubito's kick becomes faster than Juubito's Shunshin from 20-30 meters away then we can talk. Tobirama only reacting on defense is not only the point I'm making (thus all this offense, hype blah blah stuff you are talking about is irrelevant) but that being the point doesn't change the facts. Tobirama>Base Minato in reaction.

Which is irrelevant because the only factor in Minato getting hit or not isn't just the speed they burn, it's the AoE and the speed at which they burn and explode.

And please type in paragraphs. Looking at this hurts my eyes.

 

[Lord Tywin]

The only reason the walls were that strong is because the Shinobi alliance linked together to do it. When Hashirama can come close to that after splitting his power 25 times then we can talk.

1. Not every single shinobi made a wall
2. This is half kyuubi. Doesn't need the same power as the juubi
3. This is Hashirama, whose clones are >>>>random fodders in the war