3rd Raikage and Muu vs EMS Sasuke

[KidGamer65]

Being able to track lightened raikage =/= being able to land a hit on him, sasukes fastest attack is amaterasu which gets dodged, and if sasuke uses V4 susanoo he cant use amaterasu, just spam enton from his orb which travels slower than amaterasu iirc.

Sasuke being able to track a guy on the level of Juubito and tag him=Sasuke being able to tag Raikage. Sasuke not having a Susanoo equal to his Senjutsu Susanoo doesn't matter when Juubito>>>>>>>>>V2 Ay in speed.

Amaterasu doesn't travel, so you can't compare it in speed to the rest of Sasuke's jutsu. I can use the same logic to say that Juubito should have evaded Naruto and Sasuke's attacks with ease because Amaterasu spawns, thus it is faster...but he couldn't.

Sasuke can't defend against both of them simultaneously.

Considering they can't attack at the same time, yes, he can defend against both of them.

Muu preps jinton from behind a

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where Amaterasu can't hit him because he's not in sasukes LoS. If Sasuke targets Mu with susanoo arrow, lightened raikage can attack him in the time it takes to string the arrow and fire it.

All Sasuke needs to do is protect himself by using a wall of Amaterasu flame, that way the Raikage can't recklessly charge in, and that gives Sasuke more than enough time to Shunshin to an area where Mu is in his LoS, and then attack him with Amaterasu.....or Sasuke simply swats the Raikage since he has the reactions and eyes to track and react to Juubito, who is worlds apart from V2 Ay when it comes to speed.

Amaterasu isnt hitting Mu from behind cover of a rock out of sasukes los. If Sasuke uses shunshin to move to where Mu is in his line of sight, he turns his back on raikage whose lightened speed is >>> sasukes and charges in with nukite and kills him. if sasuke switches to defend himself against raikage with enton blade, Muu obliterates him with large scale jinton.

Then he can just use a Dragon Flame instead of using Amaterasu, allowing him to smash through the rock pillar and hit Mu from behind. [

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] The same effect is achieved since Mu's Jinton still takes way too long, not to mention Raikage is put out of commission the moment he tries to attack. It also doesn't help that he's lightened. While his speed is increased, a simple hit is enough to send him flying dozens of meters away AND set him on fire.

theres pretty much overwhelming evidence here for muu using weighted rock tech. Its not 100% confirmed that 2nd mizukage can use hydrification, yet people give him that feat because he's part of the hozuki clan; though being in the hozuki clan doesnt grant you ability to liquify (like being in the uchiha clan doesnt mean you have sharingan), but since he is the mizukage (strongest in the village, in theory) and part of the hozuki clan, we can logically deduce he can use hydrification. I'd go as far as to say Muu can use this technique unless proven otherwise. Though the kages dont need it to beat sasuke.

1. He's a Hozuki. Their jutsu is passed down in the clan, Onoki and Mu's Jutsu have no such relation, nor do they have any such relation.

2. His body is stated to contain a lot of water and oil.

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3. The Water Gun jutsu is used by shooting water from the finger tips, something you can only do if you have the hydrification jutsu. Gengetsu and Suigetsu both use this technique.

Where is this overwhelming evidence? Cause it's 100% confirmed the Mizukage can use hydrifiction, can't say the same for Mu.

 

[ARGUS]

Bold makes zero sense considering Mu and the Raiakge are nowhere near Juubito's level of speed, so he doesn't need something on the level of his Senjutsu Susanoo to tag them.

tracking =/= landing a hit on someone,
nothing suggests that his susanoo which over 6x weaker than his canon legged susanoo could tag lightened raikage,
so he doesnt have to be anywhere near juubitos level to evade sasukes susanoo hits

without the kyuubi and senjutsu boost, his susanoo is going to be nowhere near as fast, nowhere near as mobile and nowhere near as agile as the one that was used to tag juubito, so the raikage is still evading its blows,

and his susanoo is certainly not tanking either nukite or jinton which are eventually landing on him

Stalls Sasuke? He can attack them both at once using Magatama, while the Raikage can dodge w/o any drawback, Mu has to stop charging Jinton, so that's never happening here.

Nope, both of them can evade the magatamas, raikage through his sheer speed, whilst muu through going invisible or evading through his flight speed, thats if the magatamas even reach him

hell magatamas have similar formation speed to jinton so not seeing why it cant be used here,
sasuke cant attack both of them at the same time,
not when one of them would be at a large distance and airborne, whilst the other would be upfront and attacking sasuke up close

Sasuke low difficulty.

Nukite isn't even piercing a v4 Susanoo.

Based on?
Hirudora which is comparable to an FRS had no effect on the third raikage, despite the fact that the wind affinity countered the raikages raiton armor hard
and on the other hand, hirudora obliterated V3 susanoo,
concluding that thirds durability > V3 susanoos,

nukite on the other hand compeltely went through the third and took him out,
so nukite is most likely breaching V4,

Jinton is a none factor here seeing as Amaterasu or Susanoo arrows renders Jinton useless. Amaterasu lights Mu up

Muu senses the chakra built up for amaterasu and just goes invisible,,
sasuke cant ignite what he cant see, so thats fine,
as for susanoo arrow, they are countered the same way as amaterasu,

and how does susanoo arrow render jinton useless?
jinton would simply plow through the arrow and turn it to dust,, its as simple as that

and then Sasuke clowns on the Raikage with a standing Susanoo wielding a Enton blade.

except his susanoo wont be anywhere near as fast or mobile as the one he formed in canon, s
so the raikage can still land his nukite on him and bust his susanoo, allowing him to finish sasuke off

raikage stalling sasuke is also allowing muu to eventually fire off a jinton

Even if he gains the speed of v2 Ei is he even dodging Amaterasu? If im correct Ei only dodged Amaterasu because he knew it was coming plus he used his shunsui which escaped Sasuke Los which he can't escape EMS Los seeing as he could see someone much faster than v2 Ei.

Amaterasu still has the same spawning speed, and the raikage evaded it through his sheer speed,
sasukes precog being superior only means that he can track someone on the level of V2 Ay, and avoid getting blitzed,
the jutsu itself still has similar properties

So Amaterasu hits him.

No

Why won't it have the mobility? Raikage isn't dancing around anything when Sasuke can easily track and counter his speed.

tracking =/= landing blows,
it wont have the mobility because nothing suggests that it would,
his susanoo was boosted by Yin and Yang kurama, plus it had senjutsu,
thats a boost of over 6x, which increased the speed, size, power, and mobility of his susanoo,

Mu gets located by Aoda via temperature.

He gets a rough location of muu,and thats if and only if, aoda is close enough to him,
his whereabouts wont exactly be pinpointed,

Raikage will dive into an Enton covered Susanoo basically commiting Suicide.

Not sure if serious

Sasuke dodges him all day without much effort.

Sasuke has the precog to track the raikage, but he doesnt have the physical means to dodge him that easily

Jinton isn't getting fire off when Sasuke can stay in standing Susanoo while Aoda locates Mu once Mu is located multiple Enton Arrows finish him off or Kirin etc...

this is already addressed above,,
as for kirin thats if it ends up getting prepped before nukite lands and that is unlikely

 

[KidGamer65]

tracking =/= landing a hit on someone,
nothing suggests that his susanoo which over 6x weaker than his canon legged susanoo could tag lightened raikage,
so he doesnt have to be anywhere near juubitos level to evade sasukes susanoo hits

That'd be true, if you could prove that Lightened Raikage (Who'd probably be around V2 Ay's regular speed) was anywhere close, even remotely close to Juubito's own speed....but you can't, so your point has little merit.

Ay is nowhere near Juubito's level of speed. Nowhere near it. KCM Naruto can react to Ay's speed, and he can even evade Ay's speed. BM Naruto is faster, and BSM Naruto is MUCH faster in terms of speed and reactions. (Senjutsu boosts abilities well over 2x) Juubito was blitzing KCM Naruto, so he'd blitz Ay with no reaction. At first, Juubito was alluding Naruto's sensing, and the latter couldn't even tag him, meaning a BSM Naruto who is far superior to BM Naruto, who is far superior to KCM Naruto, who is comfortably above V2 Ay in speed STILL can't tag Juubito. Speed difference is large enough for me to say that a V4 Legged Susanoo from Sasuke is enough to tag someone tiers below Juubito in speed.

without the kyuubi and senjutsu boost, his susanoo is going to be nowhere near as fast, nowhere near as mobile and nowhere near as agile as the one that was used to tag juubito, so the raikage is still evading its blows,

If you could prove that V2 Ay was anywhere near as fast as Juubito, then this point would have merit, but you can't, so it doesn't. You can repeat this point all you want, but it means nothing when:

1. I never claimed that it had to be equal.

2. Common sense dictates that it doesn't need to be equal, not when

and his susanoo is certainly not tanking either nukite or jinton which are eventually landing on him

They won't be tanked...but they won't even land, so that's nothing to worry about.

Nope, both of them can evade the magatamas, raikage through his sheer speed, whilst muu through going invisible or evading through his flight speed, thats if the magatamas even reach him

Already said that the Raikage can dodge, no need to waste time repeating it, and the point is to make Mu evade to begin with, meaning Jinton can't happen, so you are basically agreeing with my point.

hell magatamas have similar formation speed to jinton so not seeing why it cant be used here,
sasuke cant attack both of them at the same time,
not when one of them would be at a large distance and airborne, whilst the other would be upfront and attacking sasuke up close

Already covered this in my post to beans. They can't attack at the same time. The gap between Raikage's attack and Mu's attack (Due to Jinton's prep) is where Sasuke can hit the Raikage, and stop Mu from using Jinton.

 

[Beans2]

Sasuke being able to track a guy on the level of Juubito and tag him=Sasuke being able to tag Raikage. Sasuke not having a Susanoo equal to his Senjutsu Susanoo doesn't matter when Juubito>>>>>>>>>V2 Ay in speed.

Amaterasu doesn't travel, so you can't compare it in speed to the rest of Sasuke's jutsu. I can use the same logic to say that Juubito should have evaded Naruto and Sasuke's attacks with ease because Amaterasu spawns, thus it is faster...but he couldn't.

@Bold when did Sasuke tag Juubito? Also Juubito flight speed =/= his foot speed which is faster and i dont remember sasuke tracking final form juubito on foot. While Sasukes tracking speed increases with EMS his jutsu execution speed does not. Tracking a faster opponent doesnt equate to landing a hit on a slower opponent if enton still travels too slow to hit him.

Considering they can't attack at the same time, yes, he can defend against both of them.

One attacks him with jinton, other simultaneously attacks with nukite. Both attacks go straight through Sasukes strongest defense and he doesnt have the speed to dodge either attack.

All Sasuke needs to do is protect himself by using a wall of Amaterasu flame, that way the Raikage can't recklessly charge in, and that gives Sasuke more than enough time to Shunshin to an area where Mu is in his LoS, and then attack him with Amaterasu.....or Sasuke simply swats the Raikage since he has the reactions and eyes to track and react to Juubito, who is worlds apart from V2 Ay when it comes to speed.

Lol Sasuke surrounding himself with amaterasu flames leaves him a sitting duck for jinton, and he also has to

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in order to create it. If its not 360 degrees of protection, sasuke is left open to an attack from the raikage as he shunshins around the wall of flames. Sasukes shunshin is useless here as the raikage's shunshin is far faster, and running to mu's position in order to get him in his line of sight involves turning his back on the raikage - leaving him open to getting fingered to death (literally). Again, doesnt matter if sasuke can track him if his jutsu execution speed is still too slow.

Then he can just use a Dragon Flame instead of using Amaterasu, allowing him to smash through the rock pillar and hit Mu from behind. [

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] The same effect is achieved since Mu's Jinton still takes way too long, not to mention Raikage is put out of commission the moment he tries to attack. It also doesn't help that he's lightened. While his speed is increased, a simple hit is enough to send him flying dozens of meters away AND set him on fire.

turning to face Mu's position and weaving hand seals for dragon flame = leaving him vulnerable to an attack from raikage. Nothing short of enton blade will set raikage on enough fire for him to be overwhelmed, anything less gets tanked long enough for him to tear through the susanoo and kill sasuke. If Sasuke tracks raikage and defends against him with enton blade, he's an open target for jinton.

1. He's a Hozuki. Their jutsu is passed down in the clan, Onoki and Mu's Jutsu have no such relation, nor do they have any such relation.

2. His body is stated to contain a lot of water and oil.

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3. The Water Gun jutsu is used by shooting water from the finger tips, something you can only do if you have the hydrification jutsu. Gengetsu and Suigetsu both use this technique.

Where is this overwhelming evidence? Cause it's 100% confirmed the Mizukage can use hydrifiction, can't say the same for Mu.

Ok - poor example i didnt think about water gun or joki boy. Basically, Mu and Onoki both were shown to use Keijūgan no Jutsu whereas only Onoki displayed using Kajūgan no Jutsu. Logically those two jutsu were invented at the same time and take the same amount of effort to master so Mu can't have one without the other or else it wouldn't make sense unless we make up improbable scenarios like Mu died before he got the chance to master the other technique. Lol...probably invented by the same person (wouldnt be surprised if it was Mu himself who invented it), probably invented at the same time, probably take the same amount of effort to master; wouldnt make sense for him not to have it. It's not like Mu is a plot central character who got little panel time so it's not fair to base an argument against him having it because of lack of feats. Especially when Mu is portrayed as Onoki's superior in every way.

 

[KidGamer65]

@Bold when did Sasuke tag Juubito? Also Juubito flight speed =/= his foot speed which is faster and i dont remember sasuke tracking final form juubito on foot. While Sasukes tracking speed increases with EMS his jutsu execution speed does not. Tracking a faster opponent doesnt equate to landing a hit on a slower opponent if enton still travels too slow to hit him.

I'll concede the match up, but this point is something I want to reply to. Just read what I wrote to Kifflom.

Ay is nowhere near Juubito's level of speed. Nowhere near it. KCM Naruto can react to Ay's speed, and he can even evade Ay's speed. BM Naruto is faster, and BSM Naruto is MUCH faster in terms of speed and reactions. (Senjutsu boosts abilities well over 2x) Juubito was blitzing KCM Naruto, so he'd blitz Ay with no reaction. At first, Juubito was alluding Naruto's sensing, and the latter couldn't even tag him, meaning a BSM Naruto who is far superior to BM Naruto, who is far superior to KCM Naruto, who is comfortably above V2 Ay in speed STILL can't tag Juubito. Speed difference is large enough for me to say that a V4 Legged Susanoo from Sasuke is enough to tag someone tiers below Juubito in speed.

Flight or Foot speed is irrelevant, both are worlds faster than Ay, so you downscale, and Sasuke easily hits Ay with his weaker Susanoo, as Ay is a far far slower opponent. Tracking and tagging a far faster opponent means that you can do so to a far slower opponent, even if the weapon you are using isn't as good as the one you used to tag the faster one.

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Though I shouldn't be using tag, more like, forced him to block instead of evade, which is the same as tagging in this context.

 

[ARGUS]

That'd be true, if you could prove that Lightened Raikage (Who'd probably be around V2 Ay's regular speed) was anywhere close, even remotely close to Juubito's own speed....but you can't, so your point has little merit.

Except he doesnt have to be anywhere near Juubitos level of speed to evade sasukes susanoo attacks,
V1 Ay was combatting and evading 5 V3 legged susanoos, no reason to believe why someone on the caliber of V2 Ay cant prevent himself from only one of the susanoos,

Ay is nowhere near Juubito's level of speed. Nowhere near it. KCM Naruto can react to Ay's speed, and he can even evade Ay's speed. BM Naruto is faster, and BSM Naruto is MUCH faster in terms of speed and reactions. (Senjutsu boosts abilities well over 2x) Juubito was blitzing KCM Naruto, so he'd blitz Ay with no reaction.

Not seeing why you are telling me this, when i have never disagreed with this on the first place
and thhere is also the fact that sasuke cant evade V2 Ays speed unlike KCM naruto, not when he doesnt have the physical means to do so,
nor would his normal V3 legged susanoo have that, noo reason whatsoever to believe that it would

At first, Juubito was alluding Naruto's sensing, and the latter couldn't even tag him, meaning a BSM Naruto who is far superior to BM Naruto, who is far superior to KCM Naruto, who is comfortably above V2 Ay in speed STILL can't tag Juubito. Speed difference is large enough for me to say that a V4 Legged Susanoo from Sasuke is enough to tag someone tiers below Juubito in speed.

Except the V3 leggeed susanoo here iis also tiers below from the one that tagged juubito, tiers and tiers below

the boost helped sasuke manifest a PS level V3 susanoo, which had the mobility to compete with the BSM avatar,

take out the boost and he gets a legged susanoo somewhere on the level of madaras, seeing how all his other susanoos are of the same level to his, and V1 Ay was evading around 5 of those,
not seeing why someone with faster speed cant evade the attacks of only 1 susanoo

If you could prove that V2 Ay was anywhere near as fast as Juubito, then this point would have merit, but you can't, so it doesn't. You can repeat this point all you want, but it means nothing when:

Except V2 Ay doesnt have to be anywhere near as fast as juubitos,
your argument holds no merit when your assumptions are all based on sasukes normal legged V3 being the samme as the one that was amped by yin/yang cloak and senjutsu,

1. I never claimed that it had to be equal.

Claiming that the normal V3 legged has the capacity could tag juubito just because the boosted V3 did, is pretty much implying that they are equal,

2. Common sense dictates that it doesn't need to be equal, not when

Common sense mostly dictates that you dont need to be juubitos level of speed to evade normal v3 legged susanoo attacks

They won't be tanked...but they won't even land, so that's nothing to worry about.

Implying that normal V3 legged susanoo is more reflexive than something on the same speed as V2 Ay,

Already said that the Raikage can dodge, no need to waste time repeating it, and the point is to make Mu evade to begin with, meaning Jinton can't happen, so you are basically agreeing with my point.

@Bold - ok then
but Sasuke could only prevent muu from firing jinton to a certain extent,
raikage engaging him in CQC just allows muu moore than enough time to fire off jinton, when he can divert sasukess attention to himself,, especially when he has to worry about nukite landing and breaching his susanoo,
all of that is eventually allowing muu to fire off a jinton which isnt needed here tbh

and YM is not doing shit, you are exaggerating the jintons formation when YM is slow to begin with, especially when we saw Gaara and Onoki form their defenses before the YM even landed, and that was being used from a close distance to begin with

Already covered this in my post to beans. They can't attack at the same time. The gap between Raikage's attack and Mu's attack (Due to Jinton's prep) is where Sasuke can hit the Raikage, and stop Mu from using Jinton.

You are severely exaggerating jiintons formation time,

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,

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muu was mainly pressured into forming jinton due to the fact that he had to deal with Onoki, Gaara and KCM naruto KB
here he is only dealing with one opponent, with the aid of another team mate,

you saying that YM can intercept him ccompletely from a large enough distance doesnt make much sense, when their formation time is more or less the same, and if sasuke only uses YM after he sees muu form a jinton, then the jinton would be fired before the YM even reaches Muu, causing the jinton to plow through the beads

 

[TRE MERCER]

>puny durability
>this a dude literally as durable as V4 Susanoo

>nukite overrated
>pierced through his own body when FRS couldnt scratch him

No he's not as durable as a v4 Susanoo. Yes nukite is very overrated. FRS didn't even do much to Kakuzu body if Kakuzu was edo he would have gotten right back up just like the 3rd Raikage did simple and plain. ​

 

[TRE MERCER]

Amaterasu still has the same spawning speed, and the raikage evaded it through his sheer speed,
sasukes precog being superior only means that he can track someone on the level of V2 Ay, and avoid getting blitzed,
the jutsu itself still has similar properties

Please tell me if Sasuke can see him move why isn't Amaterasu catching him? You realize Amaterasu can lite up anything the user can see. Ei escaped because he got out of Sasuke Los simple and plain if he could fully see Ei movements Ei would have been caught. How are they even going to preform this combo anyways before Amaterasu hits him? ​

No

tracking =/= landing blows,
it wont have the mobility because nothing suggests that it would,
his susanoo was boosted by Yin and Yang kurama, plus it had senjutsu,
thats a boost of over 6x, which increased the speed, size, power, and mobility of his susanoo,

He gets a rough location of muu,and thats if and only if, aoda is close enough to him,
his whereabouts wont exactly be pinpointed,

6x where did you come up with that math your ass hole? a rough location is all that's need when Kirin comes out and obliterate Mu. Doesn't need to be when Kirin takes him out. ​

Not sure if serious

Sasuke has the precog to track the raikage, but he doesnt have the physical means to dodge him that easily

this is already addressed above,,
as for kirin thats if it ends up getting prepped before nukite lands and that is unlikely

Yes im serious one a standing Susanoo is covered in Enton what is he going to do? Sit there and watch Sasuke slaughter Mu? SM Naruto dodged him stop with the none sense Mu little speed boost won't be much. Once he runs toward Sasuke with Nukite he kills himself he's going to be running into a wall of Enton and once he gets in striking range Enton blade catches him as well. ​

 

[Unorthodox]

dude literally as durable as V4 Susanoo
>nukite overrated
>pierced through his own body when FRS couldnt scratch him

Nope He's nowhere near V4 level rasenshuriken time and time again has shown poor destructive feats not even comparable to kirin witch v4 susanoo can protect its user from.

FRS knocked his edo dust off him i would post a scan but you know what im talking about

OT - Sasuke neg-low diff (No explanation needed unless you wanna get embarrassed)

 

[ARGUS]

Please tell me if Sasuke can see him move why isn't Amaterasu catching him? You realize Amaterasu can lite up anything the user can see. Ei escaped because he got out of Sasuke Los simple and plain if he could fully see Ei movements Ei would have been caught. How are they even going to preform this combo anyways before Amaterasu hits him?[/GLOW][/COLOR][/CENTER]

Amaterasu still has a spawning speed, Ay evaded Amaterasu through his sheer speed. It wasn't just escaping sasukes LoS
This was made clear since Amaterasu already spawned and Ay used his side step afterwards to evade the flames.
So Ay out speeded Amaterasu and would do so even if EMS sasuke used it again
Since the jutsus speed itself would still be the same

6x where did you come up with that math your ass hole? ​

Before jumping to insults atleast think about what you are saying
Sasuke recieved a Yin and Yang kurama cloak
Yang kurama cloak alone was stated to boost the jutsus powers by 3x at the very least
so adding Yin would double that, equating to a boost of 6x at the very least

Then we have the extra senjutsu from juugo that was boosting sasukes susanoo so that adds to another 2x atleast

So here his susanoo is utmost fodder in comparison to what he manifested in canon
And in no way shape or form should anyone give it's feats to his normal legged susanoo

a rough location is all that's need when Kirin comes out and obliterate Mu. Doesn't need to be when Kirin takes him out.[/GLOW][/COLOR]

Kirin is not getting prepped before nukite lands and rapes his susanoo
Hell it's not even landing before jinton. Which can be aided through rock clones and raikage acting as diversions

Yes im serious one a standing Susanoo is covered in Enton what is he going to do? ​

Bust it with nukite. And then get rid of the affected area

Sit there and watch Sasuke slaughter Mu?

Lol that's if he could even land any of his blows on him

SM Naruto dodged him stop with the none sense Mu little speed boost won't be much.

It'll be sufficient enough to grant him the speed to evade all of sasukes attacks

Once he runs toward Sasuke with Nukite he kills himself he's going to be running into a wall of Enton and once he gets in striking range Enton blade catches him as well.

​

Umm no
Raikage runs his nukite. And susanoo gets raped followed by sasuke getting killed
And Enton blade is not landing on Raikage not when his susanoo would e getting busted by nukite and when Enton blade is slower than raikage

 

[Styles]

Read the thread stipulations because this is Mid War Arc EMS Sasuke with feats up until that point where he began to track Juubito. That being said, the kages win this. Muu lightens Raikage and then he gains a level of speed capable of dodging Amaterasu. Now Sasuke has to face two opponents, both with attacks powerful enough to bust through his strongest Susanoo. If Sasuke attacks Raikage, Muu jintons from behind. If Sasuke focuses on taking out Muu, nukite tears through Susanoo from the back. Weighted tech to immobilize Susanoo leaves Sasuke vulnerable to a blitz from a lightened Raikage. Sasuke loses here.

Heightened speed = less attack power why do you think he had to make Ay heavier when attacking Madara.