100% proof(manga pages) edo hashirama was complete and perfect

[Cursed Prince]

Hiruzen was getting owned. Without BOD he never wouldve landed reaper

 

[TrollingSage]

1: You seem to be forgetting that even when they are brain dead they still are just as powerful as when they are conscious. Nagato and the third hokage are prime examples. Matter of fact Nagato got even more powerful when he was brain dead.

2: There's no proof the user controls their every movement. According to kabuto they follow the orders that they are given and don't need to be told what to do for every move.

Like I said, a shinbi's brain is part of his power. Didnt you notice between Kabuto's edos and Orochimaru's. The 4th Mizukage, Gaara's dad and co had their personalities and emotions and all that stuff. They were even telling their opponents their weakness. Did you hear Hashirama and Tobirama speak even once after they were tagged. Hiruzen was their prized student, dont you think they would have attempted to help him like the Mizukage was doing to the allied forces?
Also Kabuto himself admitted it was better to give the edos free will because they were more familiar with their own techniques and will know how best to utilize them.
Orochimaru himself said the Hokages had become mindless killing machines so I don't know why you're arguing that.

 

[Hipster Madara]

I disagree

 

[xMadara]

CLLICK ON THE LINK EVERYBODY PROOF THAT EDO HASHIRAMA WASNT AT FULL POTENTIAL

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NOW STFU THREAD IS NOW IRRELEVANT!!

 

[Unbiased]

Like I said, a shinbi's brain is part of his power. Didnt you notice between Kabuto's edos and Orochimaru's. The 4th Mizukage, Gaara's dad and co had their personalities and emotions and all that stuff. They were even telling their opponents their weakness. Did you hear Hashirama and Tobirama speak even once after they were tagged. Hiruzen was their prized student, dont you think they would have attempted to help him like the Mizukage was doing to the allied forces?
Also Kabuto himself admitted it was better to give the edos free will because they were more familiar with their own techniques and will know how best to utilize them.
Orochimaru himself said the Hokages had become mindless killing machines so I don't know why you're arguing that.

Kabuto left their emotions in tact for more of an emotional warfare. EX Asuma and his team and Sai and Shin.

Whether or not they are mindless killing machines is irrelevant because they are not in control of themselves. They may be able to speak but they cannot control their actions. If anything your just hurting yourself because giving the opponent their weak spots is like a handicap.

 

[KingHashirama]

1: You seem to be forgetting that even when they are brain dead they still are just as powerful as when they are conscious. Nagato and the third hokage are prime examples. Matter of fact Nagato got even more powerful when he was brain dead.

2: There's no proof the user controls their every movement. According to kabuto they follow the orders that they are given and don't need to be told what to do for every move.

1. Kabuto knew how to use Nagato... so yea. Oro didn't take Hiruzen seriously.. So it was his downfall. I don't get why your giving the loss to Tobirama and Hashirama. When they were just used as puppets.

2. Just like Zabuza , Haku and the Kages they had no control over their bodies.

 

[End of Days]

well i agree
i no longer care who the strongest hokage is, the topic is just no longer important to me

 

[TrollingSage]

Kabuto left their emotions in tact for more of an emotional warfare. EX Asuma and his team and Sai and Shin.

Whether or not they are mindless killing machines is irrelevant because they are not in control of themselves. They may be able to speak but they cannot control their actions. If anything your just hurting yourself because giving the opponent their weak spots is like a handicap.

What I was trying to prove is that they weren't themselves and I have successfully. Sure telling your opponent your weakness is a handicap but surely thats what they'd have wanted seeing they didnt really want to fight and all. I would give you all the manga pages that Hashi and Tobi attacked and show you Oro was responsible for every move they made but I can't be bothered tbh.
And actually you're wrong about the bolded part. Like I said, a shinobi's intellect is a very vital part of their power. If you give Naruto Minato's techs for instance, he wont be anywhere as powerful.
So yes the edos were at full power but you can't use them as a proof that Hashirama is inferior to Hiruzen since it wasnt Hashriama himself fighting. It was Orochimaru using Hashirama's powers.

 

[xMadara]

What I was trying to prove is that they weren't themselves and I have successfully. Sure telling your opponent your weakness is a handicap but surely thats what they'd have wanted seeing they didnt really want to fight and all. I would give you all the manga pages that Hashi and Tobi attacked and show you Oro was responsible for every move they made but I can't be bothered tbh.
And actually you're wrong about the bolded part. Like I said, a shinobi's intellect is a very vital part of their power. If you give Naruto Minato's techs for instance, he wont be anywhere as powerful.
So yes the edos were at full power but you can't use them as a proof that Hashirama is inferior to Hiruzen since it wasnt Hashriama himself fighting. It was Orochimaru using Hashirama's powers.

Stop posting no matter how valid and good your points are "Unbiased" its just going to say random bull and disagree with you. He gave me neg rep just because he doesnt agree with me so just leave the no ***** getting no life alone and go to some other thread.

 

[Unbiased]

1. Kabuto knew how to use Nagato... so yea. Oro didn't take Hiruzen seriously.. So it was his downfall. I don't get why your giving the loss to Tobirama and Hashirama. When they were just used as puppets.

2. Just like Zabuza , Haku and the Kages they had no control over their bodies.

1: What do you mean "use nagato" that doesn't make any sense.

2: Yet nagato did not have any control at the end of the fight yet naruto stated he was much more powerful.

What I was trying to prove is that they weren't themselves and I have successfully. Sure telling your opponent your weakness is a handicap but surely thats what they'd have wanted seeing they didnt really want to fight and all. I would give you all the manga pages that Hashi and Tobi attacked and show you Oro was responsible for every move they made but I can't be bothered tbh.
And actually you're wrong about the bolded part. Like I said, a shinobi's intellect is a very vital part of their power. If you give Naruto Minato's techs for instance, he wont be anywhere as powerful.
So yes the edos were at full power but you can't use them as a proof that Hashirama is inferior to Hiruzen since it wasnt Hashriama himself fighting. It was Orochimaru using Hashirama's powers.

The intellect part only helps in giving the opponent a handicap. Fact as a mindless edo would not reveal their weaknesses.

"a shinobi's intellect is a very vital part of their power. If you give Naruto Minato's techs for instance, he wont be anywhere as powerful."

1: If you give kabuto nagato's techniques it won't be as powerful because he never had the rinnegan yet we saw naruto in chapter 551 page 10 state he was much more powerful then before.

Your logic is absolutely flawed and refutes what we have seen in the manga.

 

[TrollingSage]

Actually Nagato's techs were more powerful because the Nagato Naruto fought
1.Was fighting throught the paths
2. Had depleted half his chakra fighting the Konoha shinobi and blowing Konoha to smitherens
Edo Nagato had infinite chakra and had just absorbed chakra from Bee. Ofc he was defeated because of Kabuto's own mistake. He ignored Itachi and didnt notice him blinding the summons.
And no intellect doesnt give edo a handicap when if he wants to fight. e.g Deidara and Madara. Kabuto himself admitted it was better that way. Wjho're you to argue with that.
Giving them free will is only a disadvantage if they're fighting allies or people they know/love. In that case you can't use a fight where A to fight B against his will as proof that B>A. That is flawed logic.

 

[Unbiased]

Actually Nagato's techs were more powerful because the Nagato Naruto fought
1.Was fighting throught the paths
2. Had depleted half his chakra fighting the Konoha shinobi and blowing Konoha to smitherens
Edo Nagato had infinite chakra and had just absorbed chakra from Bee. Ofc he was defeated because of Kabuto's own mistake. He ignored Itachi and didnt notice him blinding the summons.
And no intellect doesnt give edo a handicap when if he wants to fight. e.g Deidara and Madara. Kabuto himself admitted it was better that way. Wjho're you to argue with that.
Giving them free will is only a disadvantage if they're fighting allies or people they know/love. In that case you can't use a fight where A to fight B against his will as proof that B>A. That is flawed logic.

"Giving them free will is only a disadvantage" that's what I was saying in regards to the intellect. It was merely a misunderstanding. Also another thing to note is that the third raikage while a mindless drone was still revered for his power by dodai who served under him. Point being mindless or not it doesn't bring a whole lot to the table except that disadvantage that you spoke of. While it can benefit in emotional trauma and warfare, the disadvantage will be the downfall(as we have seen)

 

[KingHashirama]

1: What do you mean "use nagato" that doesn't make any sense.

2: Yet nagato did not have any control at the end of the fight yet naruto stated he was much more powerful.

1. Kabuto used Nagato to fight Naruto and etc.

2. Naruto never said Nagato was much powerful..... He said he was stronger then before.
Also Nagato with Kabuto's control on him is stronger then Nagato himself.

 

[TrollingSage]

"Giving them free will is only a disadvantage" that's what I was saying in regards to the intellect. It was merely a misunderstanding. Also another thing to note is that the third raikage while a mindless drone was still revered for his power by dodai who served under him. Point being mindless or not it doesn't bring a whole lot to the table except that disadvantage that you spoke of. While it can benefit in emotional trauma and warfare, the disadvantage will be the downfall(as we have seen)

Thats my point exactly. He had all the power but no brain. Thats why in the end he got trolled by 1/13th of Narutoxd
If you pay attention you'll see a pattern here. All the edos that were made into mindless zombies got trolled quite easily.

 

[Unbiased]

1. Kabuto used Nagato to fight Naruto and etc.

2. Naruto never said Nagato was much powerful..... He said he was stronger then before.
Also Nagato with Kabuto's control on him is stronger then Nagato himself.

He said his speed and techniques are on a higher level now. That happened after kabuto took control not prior otherwise it would of been mentioned prior.

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Thats my point exactly. He had all the power but no brain. Thats why in the end he got trolled by 1/13th of Narutoxd
If you pay attention you'll see a pattern here. All the edos that were made into mindless zombies got trolled quite easily.

You have a point, and you do hold ground however what i'm saying is they have access to all their techniques they were just poorly executed.

One more thing to mention, whether or not he fought hashirama with his mind in tact is not necessarily going to change the situation, as he has a counter for EVERY move hashirama can employ. (remember he mastered every jutsu in the village which doesn't mean KKG and Hidden jutsus as those are clan specific as stated).

 

[Konohas Silent Assassin]

it clearly says, that ''they are obedient pawns and they follow the orders'' of the controller of edo tensei.
this alone sums up the fact that not even orochimaru would have known the full extent of the 1st and 2nds powers.

i understand this was first written in 98' but that don't mean nothing at all. the manga itself is proof not the date.
i win, you suck. Hiruzen sucks.

 

[TrollingSage]

He said his speed and techniques are on a higher level now. That happened after kabuto took control not prior otherwise it would of been mentioned prior.

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You have a point, and you do hold ground however what i'm saying is they have access to all their techniques they were just poorly executed.

One more thing to mention, whether or not he fought hashirama with his mind in tact is not necessarily going to change the situation, as he has a counter for EVERY move hashirama can employ. (remember he mastered every jutsu in the village which doesn't mean KKG and Hidden jutsus as those are clan specific as stated).

Well maybe then you can tell me how he counters a B.O.D and flower world combo. Keep in mind that he uses his nose to sniff out his opponents when in B.O.D, an option he longer has since he'll get knocked out by the pollen if he breathes. Good luck!.

 

[Unbiased]

it clearly says, that ''they are obedient pawns and they follow the orders'' of the controller of edo tensei.
this alone sums up the fact that not even orochimaru would have known the full extent of the 1st and 2nds powers.

i understand this was first written in 98' but that don't mean nothing at all. the manga itself is proof not the date.
i win, you suck. Hiruzen sucks.

It also says the revived can use any technique so if the user says use flower power which is he renowned for he'll use it.

Well maybe then you can tell me how he counters a B.O.D and flower world combo. Keep in mind that he uses his nose to sniff out his opponents when in B.O.D, an option he longer has since he'll get knocked out by the pollen if he breathes. Good luck!.

Kage bunshin no jutsu x3 (goes into the swastika formation) (see zabuza vs team 7 the first fight at the lake)
Fire style napalm dragon
Flowers are gone now he uses his sense of smell to find hashirama.

I do like your combination jutsu it made me think only for a second lol.

 

[TrollingSage]

It also says the revived can use any technique so if the user says use flower power which is he renowned for he'll use it.



Kage bunshin no jutsu x3 (goes into the swastika formation) (see zabuza vs team 7 the first fight at the lake)
Fire style napalm dragon
Flowers are gone now he uses his sense of smell to find hashirama.

I do like your combination jutsu it made me think only for a second lol.

Humour me here. What if he doesnt see the flowers cos Hashirama used B.O.D first?

 

[Orbital Release]

oh god that sig made me lol