[Discussion] 10 reasons why the Coloseum fighters are fodders

[Punk Hazard]

You talk as if his goal was to defeat Rebecca when he was just randomnly zigzagging here and there. If we're really going to use plot instances to downplay a character, i could easily say that Luffy couldn't defeat Hyouzou in gear second, lost to Caesar. Is he really M3 level?

We have no indication that Hakuba can function in any other way than a random burst of zig-zagging. Hakuba being able to focus on a particular target and fight them with intelligence is completely baseless, and is nothing more than mere speculation at this point. Based on what we have on the manga right now, he's gonna zig-zag blitz again. If Rebecca isn't tired and already beaten up like she was at the colloseum, it can be reasoned that she could dodge Hakuba even better than she did during the match. If even Rebecca can dodge Hakuba, what's stopping the faster, stronger, M3 from doing the same? Think about it, Rebecca could dodge Hakuba just enough to avoid being defeated by his blow. What do you think the M3, who are undoubtedly faster and stronger, can do?

 

[Bogard]

We have no indication that Hakuba can function in any other way than a random burst of zig-zagging. Hakuba being able to focus on a particular target and fight them with intelligence is completely baseless, and is nothing more than mere speculation at this point. Based on what we have on the manga right now, he's gonna zig-zag blitz again. If Rebecca isn't tired and already beaten up like she was at the colloseum, it can be reasoned that she could dodge Hakuba even better than she did during the match. If even Rebecca can dodge Hakuba, what's stopping the faster, stronger, M3 from doing the same? Think about it, Rebecca could dodge Hakuba just enough to avoid being defeated by his blow. What do you think the M3, who are undoubtedly faster and stronger, can do?

Think about it. Hyouzou could block and injure Luffy in gear second. What do you think M3 level fighters who are undoubtedly faster and stronger can do? Think about it. Caesar defeated Luffy. What do you think M3 level fighters who are undoubtedly faster and stronger can do?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Think about it. Hyouzou could block and injure Luffy in gear second. What do you think M3 level fighters who are undoubtedly faster and stronger can do? Think about it. Caesar defeated Luffy. What do you think M3 level fighters who are undoubtedly faster and stronger can do?

1. Luffy has defeated Caesar once he stopped underestimating him and didn't let himself get caught off-guard. Hakuba has never defeated Rebecca, and neither of them were off-guard when they were in conflict. What happened with Caesar and Luffy isn't comparable to what happened with Rebecca and Hakuba for these reasons.

2. You're example with Hyouzou is a terrible one for your side of the argument. If he can block and injure Luffy, that tells me that Zoro and Sanji can block and injure Luffy as well, and do so even better and more so. Like, do you not think Zoro and Sanji are capable of blocking and injuring Luffy even more? What happened to all of the times you said Zoro and Luffy would be high diff?

 

[Bogard]

1. Luffy has defeated Caesar once he stopped underestimating him and didn't let himself get caught off-guard. Hakuba has never defeated Rebecca, and neither of them were off-guard when they were in conflict. What happened with Caesar and Luffy isn't comparable to what happened with Rebecca and Hakuba for these reasons.

2. You're example with Hyouzou is a terrible one for your side of the argument. If he can block and injure Luffy, that tells me that Zoro and Sanji can block and injure Luffy as well, and do so even better and more so. Like, do you not think Zoro and Sanji are capable of blocking and injuring Luffy even more? What happened to all of the times you said Zoro and Luffy would be high diff?

1- And Hakuba wasn't even focusing on Rebecca. She just happened to be on the way of his final sword strike(and fell back to sleep right afterwards). He wasn't caring about her one bit. Tashigi could block Zoro. She is on his level? Terrible arguments are terrible. The fact you're now trying to use the fatigue excuse makes it even more terrible

2- And where did i say M3 level fighters can't react to Hakuba? I just said he is probably above them regardless.

 

[Punk Hazard]

1- And Hakuba wasn't even focusing on Rebecca. She just happened to be on the way of his final sword strike(and fell back to sleep right afterwards). He wasn't caring about her one bit. The fact you're now trying to use the fatigue excuse makes it even more terrible

2- And where did i say M3 level fighters can't react to Hakuba? I just said he is probably above them regardless

1. And we have no indication that Hakuba even has the ability to focus on an opponent. There is no proof that Hakuba even exists other than in a state of random frenzy. And what fatigue excuse? Can a person not perform better while in a state of good stamina than in a state of fatigue? Am I wrong on that front?

2. You never did. But the fact of the matter is, if Rebecca was capable of reacting to and dodging Hakuba, why can't they do it, but even better? If Rebecca could react to and dodge Hakuba well enough so that he couldn't defeat her, how would he be able to defeat stronger opponents? You tried to show why this point of mine was invalid by saying two things:
A)Luffy lost to Caesar and is above his level, so why can't Hakuba be above Rebecca's level though he lost to her
and
B)If Hyouzou could block and injure Luffy, imagine what the M3 could do

Both of these attempts were invalid because:
A)Luffy only lost to Caesar because he underestimated him and wasn't fighting seriously. Once Luffy changed the conditions that caused him to lose to Caesar, he trounced him. However, there is no indication that the conditions that caused Hakuba to be unable to defeat Rebecca can be changed, so it's only reasonable to assume the same thing would happen again, especially if she isn't exhausted like she would have been then.

B) The Monster Trio are capable of pushing Luffy extremely far. Zoro would push Luffy to an extreme diff fight, and Sanji to a high diff fight. So, by saying "Hyouzou could do this, imagine what they could do" as a sarcastic rebuttal doesn't actually help you because they actually are capable of damaging Luffy even greater than them.

 

[Bogard]

1. And we have no indication that Hakuba even has the ability to focus on an opponent. There is no proof that Hakuba even exists other than in a state of random frenzy. And what fatigue excuse? Can a person not perform better while in a state of good stamina than in a state of fatigue? Am I wrong on that front?

2. You never did. But the fact of the matter is, if Rebecca was capable of reacting to and dodging Hakuba, why can't they do it, but even better? If Rebecca could react to and dodge Hakuba well enough so that he couldn't defeat her, how would he be able to defeat stronger opponents? You tried to show why this point of mine was invalid by saying two things:
A)Luffy lost to Caesar and is above his level, so why can't Hakuba be above Rebecca's level though he lost to her
and
B)If Hyouzou could block and injure Luffy, imagine what the M3 could do

Both of these attempts were invalid because:
A)Luffy only lost to Caesar because he underestimated him and wasn't fighting seriously. Once Luffy changed the conditions that caused him to lose to Caesar, he trounced him. However, there is no indication that the conditions that caused Hakuba to be unable to defeat Rebecca can be changed, so it's only reasonable to assume the same thing would happen again, especially if she isn't exhausted like she would have been then.

B) The Monster Trio are capable of pushing Luffy extremely far. Zoro would push Luffy to an extreme diff fight, and Sanji to a high diff fight. So, by saying "Hyouzou could do this, imagine what they could do" as a sarcastic rebuttal doesn't actually help you because they actually are capable of damaging Luffy even greater than them.

And here is the problem here. When i say i believe Hakuba may be above them, i'm talking about a focused and unlimited version mode of him(without timelimit restriction). I never said manga-Hakuba can defeat the monster trio. Obviously he can't(with the short timespan he has), at least from what we know about him. I'm just saying that the secondary character of Cavendish is strength-wise possibly above the monster trio eventhough he can't win in an actual fight(since the mode doesn't last long apparently)

 

[Punk Hazard]

And here is the problem here. When i say i believe Hakuba may be above them, i'm talking about a focused and unlimited version mode of him(without timelimit restriction). I never said manga-Hakuba can defeat the monster trio. Obviously he can't(with the short timespan he has), at least from what we know about him. I'm just saying that the secondary character of Cavendish is strength-wise possibly above the monster trio eventhough he can't win in an actual fight(since the mode doesn't last long apparently)

Ohh okay, it's that kind of thread.

Sabo with immortality, no DF weakness and Haki as hard as diamond can defeat Akainu.

Law with no stamina issues and a Room that spreads around the entire planet would defeat Roger.

Luffy with the ability to access Superman's powers would trounce Whitebeard with his pinky toe.

 

[Bogard]

Ohh okay, it's that kind of thread.

Sabo with immortality, no DF weakness and Haki as hard as diamond can defeat Akainu.

Law with no stamina issues and a Room that spreads around the entire planet would defeat Roger.

Luffy with the ability to access Superman's powers would trounce Whitebeard with his pinky toe.

Not really the same thing. You're giving them power-ups when the actual character Hakuba exists, only that he is hiding inside Cavendish(without him knowing). The only limit of Hakuba's persona is Cavendish, not allowing him to go full strength considering Cavendish's narcolepsie blocks his potential. But what i'm trying to compare is his potential strength if he was capable to act on his own, if the character left Cavendish's body for one reason or another to become his own individual, capable to fight without any restrictions and it's the only way to judge his strength and it's that strength that i rate that high

 

[Punk Hazard]

Not really the same thing. You're giving them power-ups when the actual character Hakuba exists, only that he is hiding inside Cavendish(without him knowing). The only limit of Hakuba's persona is Cavendish, not allowing him to go full strength considering Cavendish's narcolepsie blocks his potential. But what i'm trying to compare is his potential strength if he was capable to act on his own, if the character left Cavendish's body for one reason or another to become his own individual, capable to fight without any restrictions and it's the only way to judge his strength and it's that strength that i rate that high

Oh yeah, my bad, I forgot that the actual characters Law, Sabo, and Luffy don't exist.

Hey, the size of Law's Room and his stamina are limits. Sabo's DF weakness to Akainu is a limit. I'm just getting rid of those limits like you are doing to Hakuba's time limit. Same boat man. And if you're gonna add to/increase Hakuba's intelligence, I'm gonna add to/increase Sabo's Haki and lifespan to diamond and endless. Same boats, yo, same boats.

 

[Olorin]

Hakuba steonger than the m3o? ... No :/

 

[Punk Hazard]

Hakuba steonger than the m3o? ... No :/

Dude not manga-Hakuba, fantasy-land-Hakuba.

 

[Olorin]

Dude not manga-Hakuba, fantasy-land-Hakuba.

Yea I just finished reading the other comments

So what exactly would happen if Luffy ate Popeye's spinach? Could he defeat his father or grandfather?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yea I just finished reading the other comments

So what exactly would happen if Luffy ate Popeye's spinach? Could he defeat his father or grandfather?

He'd floor them so hard.

 

[Bogard]

Hakuba steonger than the m3o? ... No :/

Cavendish is a genius of the sword possessing a meito. It's very likely he will end up being a rival to Zoro especially since he hates people from the worse generation(although he changed his mind concerning Luffy's crew and allies), so i don't understand people who don't see it possible that he can be comparable to Zoro in power. With Hakuba who is 2times stronger, do the math. We're talking about a 3 years new world supernova here. The supernova with the lowest bounty preskip(Urouge) was kicking pacifistas' ass in his transformed form, so let alone 2 years later(and 3 for Cavendish). Not to mention he is the only supernova without a devil fruit besides Zoro and maybe Killer, the dude has a bounty of 280millions without a Devil Fruit(exceeding even post-skip Killer's). He could match Chinjao's strength in base with one hand, could level up a plateau from level 3 to 4 in one move, could wip out the strongest fighters in his block as fast as Jesus Burgess(a yonkou commander). This manga is written by Oda, not Kishimoto. You really believe he would be that inconsistent and not show Cavendish/Hakuba this strong? His portrayal is pretty clear to me

 

[ZoroXTashigi]

Nah man, even in his strongest mode(Hakuba) he couldn't defeat even Rebecca.

I think Hakuba isn't Cavendish's strongest mode, I mean he isn't aware that hakuba exist and hakuba only last for few second, that's why I never separates Cavendish with Hakuba. If Cavendish not feel sleepy and turn to Hakuba, he could defeat Rebecca with relative ease.

 

[Olorin]

Cavendish is a genius of the sword possessing a meito. It's very likely he will end up being a rival to Zoro especially since he hates people from the worse generation(although he changed his mind concerning Luffy's crew and allies), so i don't understand people who don't see it possible that he can be comparable to Zoro in power. With Hakuba who is 2times stronger, do the math. We're talking about a 3 years new world supernova here. The supernova with the lowest bounty preskip(Urouge) was kicking pacifistas' ass in his transformed form, so let alone 2 years later(and 3 for Cavendish). Not to mention he is the only supernova without a devil fruit besides Zoro and maybe Killer, the dude has a bounty of 280millions without a Devil Fruit(exceeding even post-skip Killer's). He could match Chinjao's strength in base with one hand, could level up a plateau from level 3 to 4 in one move, could wip out the strongest fighters in his block as fast as Jesus Burgess(a yonkou commander). This manga is written by Oda, not Kishimoto. You really believe he would be that inconsistent and not show Cavendish/Hakuba this strong? His portrayal is pretty clear to me

Ok first of all 280m is kinda low

Second, there isn't any real proof/hype/feat/... so far that would suggest that Cavendish is as strong as you say, so far he's been kinda unimpressive and in the DR arc Kyros has the more impressive opponent atm, is it possible for him to turn out to be as strong as you say? Yes but if we go down that road there are quite a few other characters we could say the same about as well so I when you do single out Hakuba you do so solely on the fact that he's on of your fav characters

I'd be a lot more inclined to agree with you if at least he did something impressive enough to put him up there (no Hakuba rage isnt enough) up until now or if he at least fought one of the seats, if he gets Trebol I will change my mind

But as of now his portrayal and hype (random dude that was shoved aside by the worst generation and only a 280m bounty for a captain that has been on the scene longer than Luffy, Kid or Law) are kinda lackluster

 

[Bogard]

Ok first of all 280m is kinda low

Second, there isn't any real proof/hype/feat/... so far that would suggest that Cavendish is as strong as you say, so far he's been kinda unimpressive and in the DR arc Kyros has the more impressive opponent atm, is it possible for him to turn out to be as strong as you say? Yes but if we go down that road there are quite a few other characters we could say the same about as well so I when you do single out Hakuba you do so solely on the fact that he's on of your fav characters

I'd be a lot more inclined to agree with you if at least he did something impressive enough to put him up there (no Hakuba rage isnt enough) up until now or if he at least fought one of the seats, if he gets Trebol I will change my mind

But as of now his portrayal and hype (random dude that was shoved aside by the worst generation and only a 280m bounty for a captain that has been on the scene longer than Luffy, Kid or Law) are kinda lackluster

No feats?

- He could match Chinjao's strength with one hand(someone who gave a fight to Luffy)
- He could wipe out the strongest fighters in his block as fast as a yonkou commander, wiping them so fast no one in an entire stadium(including Bartolomeo who could fodderize a marine HQ vice-admiral) could see

No hype?

- 3 years worth Supernova captain living in the new World
- He was called inhuman by observers
- Chinjao called him strong
- Bastille called him a genius of the sword
- Knowledge of his strength even reached Sabo's(of all people) ears
- Despite knowledge, Sabo was still baffled by his speed

Besides, 280 Millions for Cavendish is on the contrary pretty big imo when you know:

1- Cavendish has no devil fruit
2- Hakuba is 2times stronger

All Supernova captains have devil fruit. Post-skip Killer who was most certainly in the greatest dangers in the new world(judging by his design with multiple injuries) only has a 200millions berry bounty after 2 years. Hawkins(who is described as one of the most dangerous even among the worse generation) had 320millions berry bounty after 2years(so only 40millions more than Cavendish) and he even has a devil fruit

Also the worse generation overshadowed him mainly because they were born between the end of the previous era and the beginning of the new one. It was just coincidental. It's also very likely they have better potential, however Cavendish has 1year new world experience above them that could compensate his lackluster potential compared to them

But of course you're entitled to your opinion. Just wanted to reply regardless though

 

[Olorin]

No feats?

- He could match Chinjao's strength with one hand(someone who gave a fight to Luffy)
- He could wipe out the strongest fighters in his block as fast as a yonkou commander, wiping them so fast no one in an entire stadium(including Bartolomeo who could fodderize a marine HQ vice-admiral) could see

No hype?

- 3 years worth Supernova captain living in the new World
- He was called inhuman by observers
- Chinjao called him strong
- Bastille called him a genius of the sword
- Knowledge of his strength even reached Sabo's(of all people) ears
- Despite knowledge, Sabo was still baffled by his speed

Besides, 280 Millions for Cavendish is on the contrary pretty big imo when you know:

1- Cavendish has no devil fruit
2- Hakuba is 2times stronger

All Supernova captains have devil fruit. Post-skip Killer who was most certainly in the greatest dangers in the new world(judging by his design with multiple injuries) only has a 200millions berry bounty after 2 years. Hawkins(who is described as one of the most dangerous even among the worse generation) had 320millions berry bounty after 2years(so only 40millions more than Cavendish) and he even has a devil fruit

Also the worse generation overshadowed him mainly because they were born between the end of the previous era and the beginning of the new one. It was just coincidental. It's also very likely they have better potential, however Cavendish has 1year new world experience above them that could compensate his lackluster potential compared to them

But of course you're entitled to your opinion. Just wanted to reply regardless though

My bad, did I say no feats? i meant no feats relevant in a Cavendish and M3o comparison ... Nvm I reread my post and I never said he had no feats, I just said he had no real feats that could be relevant in this argument

I also never said he had no hype at all I just said his hype is irrelevant, his hype was shunned aside by the worst generation that he was completely overshadowed by them in itself tells us a lot

And yes 280m is a somewhat low bounty. So what if he has no DF, who goves a f???, are you saying that Zoro would only have a 280m bounty if he was the captain? ... No ... Also Zoro (and the SHs) were absent for two years, so yea, if anything, that 280m bounty is an argument against you

 

[Mugiwara kun]

Now this is why I like this forum. Two people going at it with so much PASSION.

OT: Hakuba with intelligence and better life span will give a fight to Sanji high diff but Zoro takes it mid diff,we all know zoro is a better swordsman and has haki now hell am sure he can easily block any of Hakuba 's blitzing but Luffy beats him low diff. If Rebecca can Dodge him,luffy can Dodge and even counter easily. Hakuba with intelligence and better span is just below Sanji lvl
Also intelligence doesn't really count here. Its not like the M3 are daft or something

 

[VongolaX]

The mistake you're making here with all these assessment you made.

You're comparing them to luffy, who hardly takes fights seriously.

Chinjio old man mid diff with luffy according to most eyes, yet his son broke his horn and one shot Lao G who beat up Chinjio.

This same grandson was the one that got one-shit by luffy too.

Bellamy didn't bypass Luffy's Haki, especially in the colosseum where he admitted his Haki was fodder compared to Luffy's.

Bellamy just put luffy on his @ss by inertia.