[VS] 1 MS Obito vs 1 MS Kakashi

[BenjerminGaye]

What? :|

You do realize that Iruka's a chuunin right?

So you come to the conclusion that just because you don't know there names, their rank means nothing and they are fodders?

Exactly. If their best feat is throwing kunai and holding swords what can you expect.

 

[VongolaX]

....which is completely irrelevant to the point that kiba is not shown in the panel and then appears right next to naruto before naruto can complete the claw swipe. The one standing next to naruto wasn't kiba, if the other two ninjas jumping toward him were kiba, they still traveled a greater distance than naruto did.

Which means one thing, Kiba was already there before naruto tried to blitz towards him.

The Jiba being next to naruto doesn't prove anything either, when naruto was dashing towards Obito, Naruto was the only one in his range.

Since those chakra rods didn't absorb anything, then why do you claim that they have the power to absorb ninjutsu?

Because in chapter 606 Madara told Obito:

"This is my will made into a physical form use it when preforming the Justus of six paths."

Since Obito lacks the rinnegan (Nagato has it), Obito's use of sage chakra is through the will Madara gave to him.

He even told him I shall teach you shadow and light style, six paths, and some forbidden uchiha techniques despite both of them not having rinnegan.

if you don't believe it you can read 606, look at blind Madara's absorbing looking exactly like Sasuke's, or take a close look at how relaying sage chakra in the rods gave yahiko's dead body six path techniques.

....and KCM NAruto can take attacks that are far more penetrating than mokuton spikes, juubi-sized katon required kamui, and obito has never used yin yang release nor the So6P technique via black rods unless you are talking about obito after he stole madara's juubi chakra, then that's a whole different story.

Well no, juubi size Katon doesn't require kamui...

It never did when he used it in the alliance.

A fan made kcm naruto's clone disappear, a wood spike that kills people from the inside out will have no problem.

Obito used Inyouton on Sasuke's arrow and the six path Justus were used on JJ Madara, but he had the rinnegan at that time.

You can't deny the Inyouton, even the 4th databook confirms that he has Inyouton thanks to genetics.

....yet he needed kamui to land the hit on the clone, and KCM clones have incomparably greater attacks than rasengan, and can fire multiple rasengans from different angles via chakra arms.

You mean the chakra arm Obito evaded by jumping, just so he can stop Kakashi from warping gedo's neck off?

Obito also has giant shurikens, wood branches, and rods to counter kcm naruto's rasengan variant. (He'll need his frog sagemode to touch the rods)

That shows that people will just + rep arguments as long as it complies with whatever agendas they have going for them regardless of what logic the arguments utilize.

It just means I use logic and a follow what is being read in the manga.

I want you to literally explain to me why you think an obito with kamui beating a kage level opponent with unknown amounts of difficulty would imply he beats a kage level opponent with neg difficulty without even using kamui.

Because he doesn't use kamui to kill, you don't kill your opponents by warping them into dimensions as a whole.

Look at all his fights he used kamui, he always says that he can't kill you yet because you're important to me.

He said he wasn't going to kill konan because he needs to know where the eyes are

He didn't kill Danzo's guards, he used them for Edo tensei before killing one bare hand.

He didn't kill minato, he was controlling the kyuubi and fight minato so his time was short.

He told bee and naruto that he wasn't going to kill them because he needed their bijuus.

If he wanted to kill a strong opponent seriously, he would use those high level Justus Madara taught him.

Those would easily kill a kage

So what if they aren't anbus? If lowerclass jounins can be the hokage guards, then why in the world would anbu being hokage's guards = they are the highest class of jounin?

Because minato in the scan I showed you noted how high their levels are.

Do you even know the ranking system?

Even Kakashi was an anbu, out of all the jounins he was nominated to be hokage twice.

 

[VongolaX]

Exactly. If their best feat is throwing kunai and holding swords what can you expect.

Itachi throws knives and used swords when he was an anbu.

Look at the massacre he was able to do with those two items.

 

[lanakui8]

Which means one thing, Kiba was already there before naruto tried to blitz towards him.

The Jiba being next to naruto doesn't prove anything either, when naruto was dashing towards Obito, Naruto was the only one in his range.

...except we literally see kiba isn't already there before naruto tried to blitz towards obito...

we have blatant manga scans that show kiba is not even close to naruto when naruto tries to get to obito, then all of a sudden kiba is right next to naruto before naruto can complete a slash. Unless you want to argue that kiba can use hirashin, he moved a much greater distance than naruto did and therefore naruto was not moving anywhere near his fastest.

Because in chapter 606 Madara told Obito:

"This is my will made into a physical form use it when preforming the Justus of six paths."

Since Obito lacks the rinnegan (Nagato has it), Obito's use of sage chakra is through the will Madara gave to him.

He even told him I shall teach you shadow and light style, six paths, and some forbidden uchiha techniques despite both of them not having rinnegan.

if you don't believe it you can read 606, look at blind Madara's absorbing looking exactly like Sasuke's, or take a close look at how relaying sage chakra in the rods gave yahiko's dead body six path techniques.

okay? Relaying sage chakra in the rods is not what gave yahiko's dead body the six path's tech, it was that and the combination of nagato implanting duplicate rinnegans into yahiko's eyes that allowed yahiko to use one of the So6P's techs. IF the techniques could just be channeled through the rods, then all paths of pain would be able to use any of the rinnegan techs.

Plus, madara said to use the black rod with the rikudou no jutsu, he didn't say use the rikudou no jutsu through the black rods and the whole point of that was so that obito would know what to do when he uses the rikudou no jutsu since the black rods are madara's will.

Well no, juubi size Katon doesn't require kamui...

It never did when he used it in the alliance.

sure it did, bakufu ranbu canonically requires kamui. We saw that the first time it was used, and it explains the katons shape the second time it was used. It also explains why obito's katon when he fights kakashi is so tiny compared to that.

A fan made kcm naruto's clone disappear, a wood spike that kills people from the inside out will have no problem.

A fan that casually cut the branches of the shinjuu made kcm naruto's clone disappear. A wood spike's ability to kill people from the inside out has nothing to do with its penetrating power, and KCM naruto's clones are immune to attacks

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Obito used Inyouton on Sasuke's arrow and the six path Justus were used on JJ Madara, but he had the rinnegan at that time.

he fired three black rods at sasuke's arrow. Six path's jutsu against madara? You mean the onmyouton staff?

You can't deny the Inyouton, even the 4th databook confirms that he has Inyouton thanks to genetics.

what exactly is inyouton and when did the fourth db talk about it?

You mean the chakra arm Obito evaded by jumping, just so he can stop Kakashi from warping gedo's neck off?

yep, which he doesn't evade if he has to attack naruto.

Obito also has giant shurikens, wood branches, and rods to counter kcm naruto's rasengan variant. (He'll need his frog sagemode to touch the rods)

... how do any of those things stop naruto's rasengan variants?

Because he doesn't use kamui to kill, you don't kill your opponents by warping them into dimensions as a whole.

Look at all his fights he used kamui, he always says that he can't kill you yet because you're important to me.

He said he wasn't going to kill konan because he needs to know where the eyes are

He didn't kill Danzo's guards, he used them for Edo tensei before killing one bare hand.

He didn't kill minato, he was controlling the kyuubi and fight minato so his time was short.

He told bee and naruto that he wasn't going to kill them because he needed their bijuus.

If he wanted to kill a strong opponent seriously, he would use those high level Justus Madara taught him.

Those would easily kill a kage

...why in the world does obito not using kamui to kill have anything to do with this? Obito w/o kamui =/= Obito w/ kamui except not using it to kill. Obito w/o kamui can't teleport, can't gg people via absorption, he can't fire chakra stakes or shuriken from his eye, can't use intangilibty, and can't even use his giant katons. Now how is that suppose to mean that Obito w/o Kamui can neg a kage level fighter when all you've stated is the obito w/ kamui can beat yagura with unknown difficulty?

Also, as soon as obito made the bijuu do this, he didn't care about killing NAruto or bee. He also has no reason to capture anyone once GM started turning into the juubi yet he still doesn't use any of these mysterious abilities you are trying to give him that madara supposedly taught him.

Because minato in the scan I showed you noted how high their levels are.

...yeah, they were anbu under the direct command of the third. How does that mean they are the highest level of jounin?

Do you even know the ranking system?

Even Kakashi was an anbu, out of all the jounins he was nominated to be hokage twice.

The ranking system has anbu listed separately from the chuunin jounin system, being an anbu and being a jounin says nothing about how you compare to jounins who aren't anbu. It's merely a position.

Gai wasn't an anbu at all, yet is he weaker than jounins who are anbu as well? Asuma wasn't an anbu, is he weaker than all the anbu jounins as well?

 

[Transcendence]

How can you use their Kamui land fight as an argument when Obito later admitted to Madara that the entire purpose of that fight was to get Kakashi to pierce Obito's chest to remove the Puppet Master seal?

OT: Obito wins.

 

[Conspirator.]

I think Obito can take it high diff. With Izanagi, he would low diff Kakashi.

 

[ATD]

How can you use their Kamui land fight as an argument when Obito later admitted to Madara that the entire purpose of that fight was to get Kakashi to pierce Obito's chest to remove the Puppet Master seal?

OT: Obito wins.

Kakashi had the chance to kill obito with a raikiri to the head, but hold back because he still believed in the good values of the old obito.
After that obito placed kakashi under a genjutsu where he led him stab his heart, but before kakashi could have killed him with a blow to the face due to better reflexes when they both arrived in kamui land.
Later he realized he can't change him and stabbed him in the stomach which randomly freed obito from madaras seal, i doubt obito had planned this all the time.

 

[Selan]

Kakashi can troll him anytime with his better reactions, jutsu execution speed/timing and smartness: he can warp his own attacks or send a Kage Bunshin in the right moment, or switch with a Raiton Kage Bunshin when he warps in the other dimension to attack from the other side, and Obito gets a Raikiri in the mouth. But Obito can still come on top with Izanagi or Gedo Mazo to make Kakashi waste his chakra.

 

[Strict]

Obito obviously wins. Kakashi's Kamui is ineffective against Obito. Obito can still slip through physical matter. Not to mention that Obito was already so exhausted at that time, that he couldn't even land on his feet when entering the Kamui dimension. Unlike Kakashi, whose Chakra got replenished by Naruto/Kyuubi several times.

 

[ATD]

Obito obviously wins. Kakashi's Kamui is ineffective against Obito. Obito can still slip through physical matter. Not to mention that Obito was already so exhausted at that time, that he couldn't even land on his feet when entering the Kamui dimension. Unlike Kakashi, whose Chakra got replenished by Naruto/Kyuubi several times.

haha only because kakashi has better reflexes and was able to land cleaner than obito.
Obito wasn't out of chakra, he has hashiramacells and used genjutsu a few seconds after arriving in kamuiland.
Before they kamuied themselves he said "i can read you like an open book kakashi ", but few seconds after that kakashi had the chance to blow his head away with raikiri.
Kakashis chakra got replenished by naruto 2 times when i remember correctly and the kyubi cloak vanished when they arrived in kamui land.
Obito constantly had the hashirama/zetsu cell haxx.

 

[NSUNSR]

I am reposting this, since everyone ignored me.
Even if we assume that they will be equal in a taijutsu battle, Obito can use

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to catch Kakashi by suprize and then stab him with a chakra rod. After Kakashi's chakra has been disrupted, Obito will gain the advantage of the fight, and finish off Kakashi with a

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.

 

[Strict]

@ATD

False. So you want to tell, that Obito's reflexes are so bad that he isn't able to land on his feet when entering the Kamui dimension, but instead falls on the ground? Think about why it's bullshit what you say.

Having Hashirama's cells also doesn't mean that your Chakra is infinite. It also doesn't matter how often his Chakra got replenished. Fact is, it got replenished several times. The cloak vanished, but he nevertheless benefited from the boost and additional Chakra.

In the Kamui land, Kakashi had the clear advantage. That's not the case under normal circumstances. Kakashi's Kamui is ineffective. Obito can still slip though all matter. Simple as that.

 

[VongolaX]

...except we literally see kiba isn't already there before naruto tried to blitz towards obito...

we have blatant manga scans that show kiba is not even close to naruto when naruto tries to get to obito, then all of a sudden kiba is right next to naruto before naruto can complete a slash. Unless you want to argue that kiba can use hirashin, he moved a much greater distance than naruto did and therefore naruto was not moving anywhere near his fastest.

Exactly were are you getting these lies from?

okay? Relaying sage chakra in the rods is not what gave yahiko's dead body the six path's tech, it was that and the combination of nagato implanting duplicate rinnegans into yahiko's eyes that allowed yahiko to use one of the So6P's techs. IF the techniques could just be channeled through the rods, then all paths of pain would be able to use any of the rinnegan techs.

Your telling me that Nagato has six pairs of rinnegan?

There is no such thing as duplicating a rinnegan.

Yes the path can use whatever rinnegan technique that's being transmitted.

That's why deva path was able to use the outerpath.

Plus, madara said to use the black rod with the rikudou no jutsu, he didn't say use the rikudou no jutsu through the black rods and the whole point of that was so that obito would know what to do when he uses the rikudou no jutsu since the black rods are madara's will.

Rikudou no Justu is the six path Justus as stated in Viz

Madara in viz said use my will when Preforming the six path Justus, not with.

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sure it did, bakufu ranbu canonically requires kamui. We saw that the first time it was used, and it explains the katons shape the second time it was used. It also explains why obito's katon when he fights kakashi is so tiny compared to that.

Quite your lying game already, he didn't use it against the alliance period.

A fan that casually cut the branches of the shinjuu made kcm naruto's clone disappear. A wood spike's ability to kill people from the inside out has nothing to do with its penetrating power, and KCM naruto's clones are immune to attacks

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A samurai sword cut through the shinjuu branch too, does that mean it will severe naruto as well?

The wood cutter penetrates the body, destroying it from the inside out.

That thing would rip naruto apart

he fired three black rods at sasuke's arrow. Six path's jutsu against madara? You mean the onmyouton staff?

Three black rods that negated Sasuke's Enton arrow

He absorbed Madara's chakra and ripped out Hachibi/Ichibi chakra

Two paths were used after his omyoudon staff

what exactly is inyouton and when did the fourth db talk about it?

Inyouton is shadow and light release

Inton= yin Youton= yang

Yin yang release=Inyouton

Madara mentioned this to Obito in 606 and that he will teach before dying.

yep, which he doesn't evade if he has to attack naruto.

He evaded his attacks by jumping, what are you getting at here?

... how do any of those things stop naruto's rasengan variants?

Rods negates them

Giant shurikens cut through bee's tentacle, he can use them to stop base rasengan.

Mokuton...We already know it's power of supress chakra

...why in the world does obito not using kamui to kill have anything to do with this? Obito w/o kamui =/= Obito w/ kamui except not using it to kill. Obito w/o kamui can't teleport, can't gg people via absorption, he can't fire chakra stakes or shuriken from his eye, can't use intangilibty, and can't even use his giant katons. Now how is that suppose to mean that Obito w/o Kamui can neg a kage level fighter when all you've stated is the obito w/ kamui can beat yagura with unknown difficulty?

Uses rods from his arm

Juubi size Katon, kamui was not needed as shown CANON.

Mokuton that rapes

And genjustus that GG perfect jinchuuriki's such as yagura.

Also, as soon as obito made the bijuu do this, he didn't care about killing NAruto or bee. He also has no reason to capture anyone once GM started turning into the juubi yet he still doesn't use any of these mysterious abilities you are trying to give him that madara supposedly taught him.

How else would IT progress?

Edo Madara questioned why he didn't kill them already, and Obito replied in teaching him despair.

Unless you completely avoided my scans in the first three pages of this thread, you clearly don't read the manga.

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...yeah, they were anbu under the direct command of the third. How does that mean they are the highest level of jounin?

Because they protect the kages and advisors, something that only the highest jounins should be qualified for.

Itachi and Kakashi are fine examples of this

As soon as he defected he was immediately an S-rank criminal.

The ranking system has anbu listed separately from the chuunin jounin system, being an anbu and being a jounin says nothing about how you compare to jounins who aren't anbu. It's merely a position.

It's a position that act directly under the third, Danzo, use solo missions, and contain secrets information that no other jounin knows.

Gai wasn't an anbu at all, yet is he weaker than jounins who are anbu as well? Asuma wasn't an anbu, is he weaker than all the anbu jounins as well?

Gai and Asuma are jounins

Who are both weaker than Itachi and Kakashi

(Elite anbus who worked directly under the hokage or Danzo)

 

[Benjamin King]

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[Draphsin]

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[Benjamin King]

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Nice try...

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[Draphsin]

Nice try...

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Nice try, doesn't change the fact that he wanted it gone & had no other way of doing it.

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[Strict]

Nice try, doesn't change the fact that he wanted it gone & had no other way of doing it.

If MangaPanda's and ***********'s statements were twisted, he would've posted the MangaPanda scan saying nice try.

 

[Benjamin King]

Nice try, doesn't change the fact that he wanted it gone & had no other way of doing it.

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*********** disagrees and Obito disagrees for saying he would have died in process. Surely he didn't want that.

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[Draphsin]

If MangaPanda's and ***********'s statements were twisted, he would've posted the MangaPanda scan saying nice try.

Probably, but regardless of the translation he wanted to remove it to become the jin, & he couldn't do it because the cursed seal doesn't allow it. Therefore he still let kakashi impale him no matter how you look at it.

*********** disagrees and Obito disagrees for saying he would have died in process. Surely he didn't want that.

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May result in his death, meaning he was willing to take the risk if it meant being free of madara's control.

Reading isn't hard.