【Varrah vs Waltz】: Healthy Itachi vs EMS Sasuke
- Thread starter Waltz
- Start date
Waltz your answer to this question will determine the match.
What do you think is faster in the event Itachi flings some attack to block his brother's vision, Itachi's hand-seals or Sasuke's chidori spear?
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Then with regards to your opening sentiments, acts 2-5 are already in play.
- Itachi, if possible, will do some move intended to block Sasuke's vision.
- Itachi will create a crow clone; this clone will be called "Clone A."
- Clone A will summon three dozen crows and then summon a crow clone, called "Clone B."
- The crows will disperse away from the location.
- Clone A will proceed to fight Sasuke as the crows are dispersing from the area; Clone B will assist Clone A cautiously.
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Princessu Kaaantchan
Active member
King Of Pop
Active member
Seems this guys are not using the firepower route. Debate is based on some strategy shit as I can see.
RustledJimmies
Banned
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Yeah; judges could go ahead with their verdicts.
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A very unique debate. Both of you chose to debate particular topics that you felt where focal points in how the battle would actually play out, rather then just saying "PS gg brahh". Anyways, the most significant aspect that I can judge this debate off of is the debating style each debater chose to undertake.
Whilst Varrah made extremely short arguments, he still effectively baited Waltz by forcing him to answer his question. However, the particular debating style Varrah used limited the potential of his arguments severely. You simply said your points without expanding on them; you showed a lack of knowledge and a lack of ability to expand on one of the most unique and limitless arsenals. Although if you had even tried to counter his tactics, you'd have possibly won (assuming your counter sufficed).
On the other hand, Waltz did a concise but effective debating style. He not only countered your point 4 by using Chidori Senbon as a counter, but effectively countered your point 5 as well by ruining its point 4 build up. He also countered Itachi's deceptive Bunshin>Kamawari by having Aoda sniff out any other Itachi which would be temporarily out of Sasuke's LoS. He also exploited Sasuke's superior chakra reserve by using Amateratsu's potential for spam, ruining any plans Itachi would have wanted to initiate. All in all, he showed greater knowledge on his character, a greater ability to utilise his jutsu, and well-constructed strategy which set-up Sasuke's victory while countering your point 4 simultaneously. I vote for Waltz.
Whilst Varrah made extremely short arguments, he still effectively baited Waltz by forcing him to answer his question. However, the particular debating style Varrah used limited the potential of his arguments severely. You simply said your points without expanding on them; you showed a lack of knowledge and a lack of ability to expand on one of the most unique and limitless arsenals. Although if you had even tried to counter his tactics, you'd have possibly won (assuming your counter sufficed).
On the other hand, Waltz did a concise but effective debating style. He not only countered your point 4 by using Chidori Senbon as a counter, but effectively countered your point 5 as well by ruining its point 4 build up. He also countered Itachi's deceptive Bunshin>Kamawari by having Aoda sniff out any other Itachi which would be temporarily out of Sasuke's LoS. He also exploited Sasuke's superior chakra reserve by using Amateratsu's potential for spam, ruining any plans Itachi would have wanted to initiate. All in all, he showed greater knowledge on his character, a greater ability to utilise his jutsu, and well-constructed strategy which set-up Sasuke's victory while countering your point 4 simultaneously. I vote for Waltz.
Not any counter which would help him against Chidori Senbon. He sort of left it 'as is' despite his point 4 having become null and void after you mentioned it. Given his entire argument centred around those 5 points, I'd think he'd at least try to defend them more extensively.
It should be noted beforehand, that any information Itachi possesses on Orochimaru, Gai, and Shino will spread among the team; thus, Ōnoki and Taiseki, will be informed of the of techniques that Orochimaru, Gai, and Shino hold if possible. TL;DR is included.
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I. Opening
I. Opening
Unless stated otherwise, these actions happen immediately and concurrently: Ōnoki will use both Doton Keijūgan and the Flight Technique on the entire team to lighten himself, Itachi, and Taiseki…enabling increased movement and flight; Itachi, in particular, and in conjunction with the insight of Sharingan, is now capable of responding to any response from the opposition with immense efficiency. Taiseki, during Ōnoki’s bountifulness, will use the Chameleon Jutsu—to which Itachi will copy—and imperceptibly, as he’s invisible, cover a 10m area with kunai; the effects of Doton Keijūgan should drastically increase the swiftness of this process; Taiseki will then return to where Ōnoki and Itachi are. It should be understood that Itachi can now become invisible, and any extension of him becomes invisible as well—Ōnoki will lighten and enable flight to the clones as well.
Ōnoki will have created three Iwa Bunshins; Itachi will have summon’d’ a flock of crows to serve as a warning system and a diversionary tactic, Itachi will created three Karasu Bunshins as well. The team now consists of 9 persons who will separate into three teams;
Ōnoki will have created three Iwa Bunshins; Itachi will have summon’d’ a flock of crows to serve as a warning system and a diversionary tactic, Itachi will created three Karasu Bunshins as well. The team now consists of 9 persons who will separate into three teams;
- Air Team: Utilizing Ōnoki’s Flight Technique, the original Ōnoki, the original Itachi, and a Karasu Bunshin will make an air team.
- Base Team: Two Iwa Bunshins and Taiseki create this team.
- Ground Team: Two Karasu Bunshins and one Iwa Bunshin create this team.
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II. Leverage
II. Leverage
The Base Team and Air Team will act simultaneously while the Ground Team acts immediately after the Base Team finishes their prerequisites. Of the Base Team, both Iwa Bunshins (A&B) will layer the two Karasu Bunshins with Doton Gōremu—after this is done, one Iwa Bunshin (A) will cover Taiseki with the same technique; Taiseki, will then touch both the Iwa Bunshins of his team (A&B) and use the Chameleon Jutsu to turn himself and both Iwa Bunshins invisible. The Iwa Bunshin (C) of the Ground Team will layer itself with the same technique and after a drizzle which serves to hardened the ground, one Iwa Bunshins (A) from the Base Team will manipulate the ground to disrupt the enemy’s footing via Doton Chidōkaku, and the Iwa Bunshin (C) from the Ground Team will aid his team’s horned blitz by using Doton Chidōkaku to collapse and elevate the land continuously creating an effect akin to that of an earthquake which serves to distort the enemy and trap any and kill any miscellaneous objects, e.g. Shino’s insects. The final Iwa Bunshin (B) of the Base Team, who is invisible, will use the drizzled ground Doton Chidōkaku to create emphasized building-like structures within the area. A number of crows from Itachi’s flock will perch themselves among these structures to scout foreign objects that have found their way through the ‘earthquake’ or somehow avoided it entirely, e.g., insects, Orochimaru, and either ‘caw’ to alert invisible allies or attack/blind them. The rest of the crows from the flock will stealthy circle Gai’s vincity and once close, they will form another Karasu Bunshin (C) and it will shunshin either enemy in order to replicate a sensation; Taiseki, a lightened undetectable flyer, will make attempts to assassinate Shino.
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III. Oddities
III. Oddities
The two Karasu Bunshins (A&B) from the Ground Team—which are armored by Doton Chidōkaku—will use the Chameleon Jutsu to become invisible, and then quickly fly using Ōnoki’s benefits; a Karasu Bunshin (A) will use Suiton Suiryūdan on the ground immediately after flying with enough pressure to wither the ground or turn to mud. Iwa Bunshin (B) will create emphasized building-like structures using Karasu Bunshin (A)’s Suiton Suiryūdan as a base. Karasu Bunshin (A)’s will secretly make its way to Shino and dispatch him using a flurry of Shurikenjutsu or Katon Hōsenka Tsumabeni. As Iwa Bunshin (A) is distorting the enemy’s stability, Iwa Bunshin (B) is to assist the original Ōnoki by flying near him and using an additional golem, all the while Karasu Bunshin (B), also an invisible flyer will set atop the building structure and fire several Katon Hōsenka towards the enemy until Ōnoki’s golem unit arrives Iwa Bunshin (D-E) to tactically offset the Earth and assault oncoming enemies—particularly Orochimaru—with Doton Kajūgan and Doton Chōkeijūgan, which will increase the weight of a target itself having it sink and/or decrease the weight of a target itself allowing it to be lifted unto another place. Karasu Bunshin (B), should have quickly dispatched Shino during the golem’s unit if Karasu Bunshin (A) has yet to—think of Karasu Bunshin (B) as the clean-up crew. The original Ōnoki will time his Jinton with the golem’s unit divergence and place Orochimaru out of commissioned. In the intervening time, the air team, Itachi specifically, should have already dispatched Gai, and if Taiseki has yet to dispatch Shino, then him as well.
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IV. Finale
IV. Finale
Of the Base Team ravaging the Earth, and of the Ground team mythical dispersing, the Air Team holds an Itachi and his Bushin that will use the Chameleon Jutsu to become invisible. Itachi and his Bushin will assess the opponent, while the former teams begin their work; then, the Air Team will actually blitz…and blitz competently savagely. Ōnoki during Base and Ground Teams groundwork will fire two golems unto Orochimaru and Gai to ‘slap’ the Earth; during this façade, an additional golem slaps the Earth from Iwa Bunshin (B) specifically aiming to block the enemy’s sight in Iwa Bunshin (B)’s assistance to help Ōnoki. During this assistance, Karasu Bunshin (B), an invisible flyer, sits atop the building structure created by final Iwa Bunshin (B) and fires several Katon Hōsenka. As the Earth is being devastated from Iwa Bunshin (C)’s earthquakes, and distorted from Iwa Bunshins (A)’s manipulation via Doton Chidōkaku, the crows begin to caw signaling enemies. Itachi and his Karasu Bunshin of the Air Team have shunshin through the air closing the distance between them and their opponents looking to slew their first target: Gai. No matter what state Gai may be in, he cannot detect the original Itachi or his Bunshin; they are invisible. Gai should also be harassed by the flock of crows summon’d’ earlier on by Itachi, which are, at this point in time, a clone: Karasu Bunshin (C). Itachi will immediately use Susano’o to impale Gai with the Sword of Totsuka, sealing him. During this interval, or perhaps before, Shino should be dead by Karasu Bunshin (A), Taiseki, or Karasu Bunshin (B), who has come during Ōnoki’s divergence scheme . This leaves only Orochimaru, who is to directly confront by Ōnoki’s scheme and the Base Team. The Base Team, specifically will alter the trajectory and placement of all Orochimaru’s techniques and movement. Itachi of the Air Team will use the Sword of Totsuka to seal Orochimaru…again.
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TL;DR:
Itachi Soloes.
Itachi Soloes.
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My god Apex was right: I need to take the time to proofread things. The ideas are there, but this is just loquacious I have to hold this L.
Itachi still soloes though.
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Itachi still soloes though.
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Unorthodox
Active member
You know I initially thought so too until I realized that it was unnecessary. The problem here is that the majority are only used to debates with the mindset being bloodlusted and the Intent to kill. Hence why you saw this type of discontinuance:
can't wait for itachi fanboys to claim he stands a slight chance of winning.
Restrict PS and legged susano still roflstompsEct...
I don't think anyone understands what took place in the debate; how Varrah countered everything within my post that that his victory was inevitable from the beginning. First off; as written within the stipulations, the mindset here is to capture the opponent, not kill or destroy. Varrah put forth a strategy on how Itachi could capture EMS-Sasuke; I countered his post by either intercepting Itachi at this first point:
or within these phases:
However; Varrah did not need to counter my post in detail if it didn't affect his strategy in anyway. He countered my post by asking a sound question that was the pinnacle (foundation wise) of my entire response; specifically against his first point:
The question forced me to utilize post 2/3 and then made me realize that there actually isn't anything in Sasuke's arsenal that is quicker than Itachi's Handseal speed. So I had one post remaining, no way of intercepting his strategy and thus no way to prove that EMS Sasuke can capture Itachi in response to his strategy. Since Varrah had the first move I cannot change what initially happens in this battle. So Varrah's argument took this structure:
Essentially he gave truth to the initial premise; his 'if' statement which we could call "A" then that in turn gave truth to acts 2-5 which we could call "B" and according to the 'and' truth table: If "A" and "B" is true then "C" is also true. So:
"A" = if Itachi could possibly blind Sasuke with some attack; which was proven true as there is nothing in Sasuke's arsenal that could best Itachi's Hand-seal speed
"B" = and if Acts 2-5 can take place
"C" = ..Then Itachi could strategically capture EMS Sasuke
So, Varrah won the debate. He's probably a magician.
Varrah said:
or within these phases:
Varrah said:
However; Varrah did not need to counter my post in detail if it didn't affect his strategy in anyway. He countered my post by asking a sound question that was the pinnacle (foundation wise) of my entire response; specifically against his first point:
Varrah said:
The question forced me to utilize post 2/3 and then made me realize that there actually isn't anything in Sasuke's arsenal that is quicker than Itachi's Handseal speed. So I had one post remaining, no way of intercepting his strategy and thus no way to prove that EMS Sasuke can capture Itachi in response to his strategy. Since Varrah had the first move I cannot change what initially happens in this battle. So Varrah's argument took this structure:
Essentially he gave truth to the initial premise; his 'if' statement which we could call "A" then that in turn gave truth to acts 2-5 which we could call "B" and according to the 'and' truth table: If "A" and "B" is true then "C" is also true. So:
"A" = if Itachi could possibly blind Sasuke with some attack; which was proven true as there is nothing in Sasuke's arsenal that could best Itachi's Hand-seal speed
"B" = and if Acts 2-5 can take place
"C" = ..Then Itachi could strategically capture EMS Sasuke
So, Varrah won the debate. He's probably a magician.
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