[Discussion] Sasuke will not get PS.

itachi1000 · Jan 20, 2013

I completely agree with this, but Sasuke is going to need some kind of power-up to face Naruto. Also we still have not seen Sasuke use his EMS to its full extent.

BlinkST · Jan 20, 2013

Frikid said:
Hello NB,
Today i am gonna explain you why sasuke will not get Perfect Susano and why it is special and unique to only Madara.

Lets talk about MS. Especially MS of madara,itachi,sasuke.

We know Itachi, Sasuke And Madara got the same abilities from MS, which is amaterasu,tsukiyomi and susano.
But tell me are they really similar?

Lets see the difference,

Itachi = Expert in genjutsu = perfect tsukiyomi.

You must be registered for see images

As you can see in the above image Itachi can control time in his tsukiyomi. Now, even sasuke and madara have tsukiyomi but they cannot do what itachi can. Itachi have mastered Tsukiyomi and hence obtained perfect tsukiyomi in which time can be controlled.
This perfect tsukiyomi is only special to him and no one else can obtain it.
Kishi is a Genius, he gave the three ninjas same abilities yet they are so different.

Sasuke = expert in ninjutsu(katon) = Perfect Amaterasu.

You must be registered for see images

Well as of today, it is safe to say that sasuke is currently the best katon user. He already overpowered itachi in katon .Some might say obito or madara are better but amaterasu being superior flames and since sasuke being the best amaterasu user, it is obvious he should be stated as the best katon user too.

As you saw above ,itachi's specialty is genjutsu and that is why he can use perfect tsukiyomi,
Sasuke's specialty is katon and that is why he obtained perfect amaterasu.

Only And ONLY sasuke can do this :
Sasuke combining amaterasu and susano in ms :-

You must be registered for see images

In EMS :

You must be registered for see images

Now only sasuke can use amaterasu to this extent, Perfect amaterasu is only special to him and nobody will obtain it.

Madara = Perfect Susano

Now i think you will understand what i meant when i said sasuke will not get PS.

Kishi have decided to give each ninja out of these 3 a specialty in certain thing.
If sasuke have perfect amaterasu, itachi have perfect tsukiyomi, then madara gets perfect susano.

Madara's use of susano is way over sasuke's or itachi's .
Sasuke and itachi's susano are no way near madara's.
Even Madara's normal susano have legs and arms, madara can hop over his susano, as if it is a summon.

You must be registered for see images

he just put in more chakra,stabilized it and improved it to this extent :

You must be registered for see images

Summary:

Kishi is a genius.
He has decided to give each guy out of itachi,sasuke and madara a specialty.
Itachi's specialty is tsukiyomi and thats why only he can do it to that extent.
Sasuke's specialty is amaterasu and we have yet to see him using it to his full potential.
Madara's specialty is susano and that is why only he can do the perfect susano.

Hence, sasuke isn't getting perfect susano.

Kishimoto has never referred to Itachi's genjutsu as "Perfect Tsukuyomi" at any point.

You must be registered for see images

There is such a thing called "Infinite Tsukuyomi", which is apparently better than the generic Tsukuyomi, and within the capabilities of Obito and Madara.

You must be registered for see images

And even that is not referred to as "Perfect Tsukuyomi". Guess Kishimoto broke your rule and gave both to Madara huh? Kishimoto has never referred to any application of Amaterasu as "Perfect Amaterasu", either.

So I'm not sure who you're kidding with this incredibly flawed idea.

KidGamer65 · Jan 20, 2013

Nope, its almost set in stone Sasuke will get Perfect Susanoo.

Madara's EMS Final Susanoo (Unstabilized version)

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Sasuke's EMS Final Susanoo (Unstabilized version)

You must be registered for see images

If you look at the two, you can see that they have the exact same characteristics (fluttering chakra, arms, eyes) this indicates that they are the same level of Susanoo. Now what did Madara do to his Perfect Susanoo unstabilized? He stabilized it and it transformed. Sasuke is obviously going to do the same to his Susanoo and it will transform, what it will turn into is unknown for now.

Also, the thing unique about Madara's Susanoo, is its legs, size, and sheer destructive power, this is just you going off an assumption that Sasuke's PS will look anything like Madara's which is obviously false. Perfect Susanoo is merely a term Madara made up for his Susanoo due to how powerful it is, its just Madara's Final Susanoo.

mimihigurashi · Jan 20, 2013

saw2097 said:
Yep we believe that Madara is gonna lose. Naruto will win, you mad Uchiha fanboy.

OT: A very interesting theory. I am curious just how far his Amaterasu control goes.

Of course he will win, he is the main character. He has to win to be a "happy ending".

askater1130 · Jan 20, 2013

Frikid said:
Hello NB,
Today i am gonna explain you why sasuke will not get Perfect Susano and why it is special and unique to only Madara.

Lets talk about MS. Especially MS of madara,itachi,sasuke.

We know Itachi, Sasuke And Madara got the same abilities from MS, which is amaterasu,tsukiyomi and susano.
But tell me are they really similar?

Lets see the difference,

Itachi = Expert in genjutsu = perfect tsukiyomi.

You must be registered for see images

As you can see in the above image Itachi can control time in his tsukiyomi. Now, even sasuke and madara have tsukiyomi but they cannot do what itachi can. Itachi have mastered Tsukiyomi and hence obtained perfect tsukiyomi in which time can be controlled.
This perfect tsukiyomi is only special to him and no one else can obtain it.
Kishi is a Genius, he gave the three ninjas same abilities yet they are so different.

Sasuke = expert in ninjutsu(katon) = Perfect Amaterasu.

You must be registered for see images

Well as of today, it is safe to say that sasuke is currently the best katon user. He already overpowered itachi in katon .Some might say obito or madara are better but amaterasu being superior flames and since sasuke being the best amaterasu user, it is obvious he should be stated as the best katon user too.

As you saw above ,itachi's specialty is genjutsu and that is why he can use perfect tsukiyomi,
Sasuke's specialty is katon and that is why he obtained perfect amaterasu.

Only And ONLY sasuke can do this :
Sasuke combining amaterasu and susano in ms :-

You must be registered for see images

In EMS :

You must be registered for see images

Now only sasuke can use amaterasu to this extent, Perfect amaterasu is only special to him and nobody will obtain it.

Madara = Perfect Susano

Now i think you will understand what i meant when i said sasuke will not get PS.

Kishi have decided to give each ninja out of these 3 a specialty in certain thing.
If sasuke have perfect amaterasu, itachi have perfect tsukiyomi, then madara gets perfect susano.

Madara's use of susano is way over sasuke's or itachi's .
Sasuke and itachi's susano are no way near madara's.
Even Madara's normal susano have legs and arms, madara can hop over his susano, as if it is a summon.

You must be registered for see images

he just put in more chakra,stabilized it and improved it to this extent :

You must be registered for see images

Summary:

Kishi is a genius.
He has decided to give each guy out of itachi,sasuke and madara a specialty.
Itachi's specialty is tsukiyomi and thats why only he can do it to that extent.
Sasuke's specialty is amaterasu and we have yet to see him using it to his full potential.
Madara's specialty is susano and that is why only he can do the perfect susano.

Hence, sasuke isn't getting perfect susano.

i didnt think of that
itachi- genjutsu
sasuke- ninjutsu
madara-taijutsu
type of ability

askater1130 · Jan 20, 2013

BlinkST said:
Kishimoto has never referred to Itachi's genjutsu as "Perfect Tsukuyomi" at any point.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

There is such a thing called "Infinite Tsukuyomi", which is apparently better than the generic Tsukuyomi, and within the capabilities of Obito and Madara.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And even that is not referred to as "Perfect Tsukuyomi". Guess Kishimoto broke your rule and gave both to Madara huh? Kishimoto has never referred to any application of Amaterasu as "Perfect Amaterasu", either.

So I'm not sure who you're kidding with this incredibly flawed idea.

the fact that u need to be the 10 tails jinchiriki means that it is not within their power to use infinite tsukuyomi . they need the 10 tails power and then they will reflect their tsukuyomi off of the moon

iKaras · Jan 21, 2013

Lol have you seen Madara's Katon? Compared to Sasuke's, its like a lighter to a blow torch. Not even close.

BlinkST · Jan 21, 2013

Confusion said:
Lol have you seen Madara's Katon? Compared to Sasuke's, its like a lighter to a blow torch. Not even close.

Lol That's about as misleading as comparing these.

You must be registered for see images

They are different jutsu altogether. Has more to do with the what than the who.

iKaras · Jan 21, 2013

BlinkST said:
Lol That's about as misleading as comparing these.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

They are different jutsu altogether. Has more to do with the what than the who.

Chapter 560. The very first skill he uses is Katon...and it's HUGE.

Frikid · Jan 21, 2013

BlinkST said:
Kishimoto has never referred to Itachi's genjutsu as "Perfect Tsukuyomi" at any point.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

There is such a thing called "Infinite Tsukuyomi", which is apparently better than the generic Tsukuyomi, and within the capabilities of Obito and Madara.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

And even that is not referred to as "Perfect Tsukuyomi". Guess Kishimoto broke your rule and gave both to Madara huh? Kishimoto has never referred to any application of Amaterasu as "Perfect Amaterasu", either.

So I'm not sure who you're kidding with this incredibly flawed idea.

madara doesn't specialize in genjutsu. his specialty is in susano.
and no one except itachi have shown to control time itself in the genjutsu. You blindly thought infinite tsukiyomi is better genjutsu then itachi's tsukiyomi but it isn't.

You must be registered for see images

you can clearly see, madara cannot perform his infinite tsukiyomi without getting connected to gedou mazo.
that is why he needs the juubi to use infinite tsukiyomi.

itachi created this dreamscape without any external help while madara needs the juubi to create the dream world.

You must be registered for see images

So again tell me who is better at tsukiyomi ?

---

KidGamer65 said:
Nope, its almost set in stone Sasuke will get Perfect Susanoo.

Madara's EMS Final Susanoo (Unstabilized version)

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke's EMS Final Susanoo (Unstabilized version)

You must be registered for see images

If you look at the two, you can see that they have the exact same characteristics (fluttering chakra, arms, eyes) this indicates that they are the same level of Susanoo. Now what did Madara do to his Perfect Susanoo unstabilized? He stabilized it and it transformed. Sasuke is obviously going to do the same to his Susanoo and it will transform, what it will turn into is unknown for now.

Also, the thing unique about Madara's Susanoo, is its legs, size, and sheer destructive power, this is just you going off an assumption that Sasuke's PS will look anything like Madara's which is obviously false. Perfect Susanoo is merely a term Madara made up for his Susanoo due to how powerful it is, its just Madara's Final Susanoo.

hehe you made me lol,

There is only one perfect susano and that is of madara's.
there is nothing like sasuke's perfect susano or itachi's perfect susano :sy:
Do i need to tell you the meaning of perfect?

Say for example :

If we rate madara's perfect susano, it should be 10/10.
which means he got a perfect 10.
But if we rate sasuke's unstabilized susano, it would be not more than 6.
After stabilizing it would increase to 7 or 8.
So sasuke's best susano would be 8/10 which is far from perfect.

Hence sasuke wont get perfect susano.

BlinkST said:
Lol That's about as misleading as comparing these.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

They are different jutsu altogether. Has more to do with the what than the who.

^Thanks for clearing it out .

Madara may have shown katon which looks huge and overpowered.
But i strongly believe sasuke have overpowered him in katon.

iKaras · Jan 21, 2013

Sasuke's best Kotan isn't gonna be that big though. And lets say for argument sake that Sasuke and Madara right now were to clash Katon, Sasuke's would overpower Madara? Not saying it would happen...Just saying it didn't happen yet.

P.S. What are Madara's MS abilities? Don't remember seeing them.

Frikid · Jan 21, 2013

Confusion said:
Sasuke's best Kotan isn't gonna be that big though. And lets say for argument sake that Sasuke and Madara right now were to clash Katon, Sasuke's would overpower Madara? Not saying it would happen...Just saying it didn't happen yet.

P.S. What are Madara's MS abilities? Don't remember seeing them.

you missed the susano ?

he can do amaterasu and tsukiyomi as well since they are the prime requirement for susano.

jsavieti · Jan 21, 2013

either sasuke gets a power up... or naruto gets a power down? Good bye kyuubi??

Sage mode vs EMS Sasuke seems pretty even grounds?

EDIT: I like the sound of your post OP!

KidGamer65 · Jan 21, 2013

Frikid said:
---

hehe you made me lol,

There is only one perfect susano and that is of madara's.
there is nothing like sasuke's perfect susano or itachi's perfect susano :sy:
Do i need to tell you the meaning of perfect?

Say for example :

If we rate madara's perfect susano, it should be 10/10.
which means he got a perfect 10.
But if we rate sasuke's unstabilized susano, it would be not more than 6.
After stabilizing it would increase to 7 or 8.
So sasuke's best susano would be 8/10 which is far from perfect.

Hence sasuke wont get perfect susano.
.

Wrong, Perfect Susanoo is simply what Madara calls his Perfect Susanoo. Again, this is you going to the stupid assumption that all Susanoo are the same which is obviously false if you could read the manga, even Sasuke doesn't call his Susanoo Perfect Susanoo, it will still be the same level of Susanoo Madara will have, but it will look different.

Everything is bold just made by wanna slam my face against the desk.....Perfect Susanoo has nothing do with that, first of all no Susanoo as Perfect as they all have their weaknesses. Madara calls it "perfect" because it is so powerful, not because it is literally perfect.

What Madara calls his Perfect Susanoo, is simply a stabilized EMS Susanoo, nothing more. The term "Perfect" has no meaning,

Fantastic Mr Fox · Jan 21, 2013

Technically speaking, all the jutsu's are just manipulations of Chakra (which everyone has) so anyone should be able to use any jutsu with enough practice (if any trolls have a problem with that, drop it. I don't care.)
The Uchicha have 'evolved' to include a 'short cut' to these techniques through their eyes (alright, not sure how that ever made sense, but let's go with it).
Is it more likely that any given Uchiha is capable of perfecting ONLY one MS supermove IF they even get MS?
OR doesn't it make more sense these particular Uchiha are better at certain moves because (as you said) they simply enhanced the areas they were ALREADY good at?
Itachi was good at genjutsu so now he's also good at tsukiyomi.
Saskue was good at ninjutsu so now he's also good at amaretsu.
etc...
Wouldn't it be possible by the same logic that Saskue could perfect tsukiyomi by working on his overall genjutsu?

veggetta13 · Jan 21, 2013

Frikid said:
Hello NB,
Today i am gonna explain you why sasuke will not get Perfect Susano and why it is special and unique to only Madara.

Lets talk about MS. Especially MS of madara,itachi,sasuke.

We know Itachi, Sasuke And Madara got the same abilities from MS, which is amaterasu,tsukiyomi and susano.
But tell me are they really similar?

Lets see the difference,

Itachi = Expert in genjutsu = perfect tsukiyomi.

You must be registered for see images

As you can see in the above image Itachi can control time in his tsukiyomi. Now, even sasuke and madara have tsukiyomi but they cannot do what itachi can. Itachi have mastered Tsukiyomi and hence obtained perfect tsukiyomi in which time can be controlled.
This perfect tsukiyomi is only special to him and no one else can obtain it.
Kishi is a Genius, he gave the three ninjas same abilities yet they are so different.

Sasuke = expert in ninjutsu(katon) = Perfect Amaterasu.

You must be registered for see images

Well as of today, it is safe to say that sasuke is currently the best katon user. He already overpowered itachi in katon .Some might say obito or madara are better but amaterasu being superior flames and since sasuke being the best amaterasu user, it is obvious he should be stated as the best katon user too.

As you saw above ,itachi's specialty is genjutsu and that is why he can use perfect tsukiyomi,
Sasuke's specialty is katon and that is why he obtained perfect amaterasu.

Only And ONLY sasuke can do this :
Sasuke combining amaterasu and susano in ms :-

You must be registered for see images

In EMS :

You must be registered for see images

Now only sasuke can use amaterasu to this extent, Perfect amaterasu is only special to him and nobody will obtain it.

Madara = Perfect Susano

Now i think you will understand what i meant when i said sasuke will not get PS.

Kishi have decided to give each ninja out of these 3 a specialty in certain thing.
If sasuke have perfect amaterasu, itachi have perfect tsukiyomi, then madara gets perfect susano.

Madara's use of susano is way over sasuke's or itachi's .
Sasuke and itachi's susano are no way near madara's.
Even Madara's normal susano have legs and arms, madara can hop over his susano, as if it is a summon.

You must be registered for see images

he just put in more chakra,stabilized it and improved it to this extent :

You must be registered for see images

Summary:

Kishi is a genius.
He has decided to give each guy out of itachi,sasuke and madara a specialty.
Itachi's specialty is tsukiyomi and thats why only he can do it to that extent.
Sasuke's specialty is amaterasu and we have yet to see him using it to his full potential.
Madara's specialty is susano and that is why only he can do the perfect susano.

Hence, sasuke isn't getting perfect susano.

You got valid points, arguments. I´d think they´d become plausible as facts, as long as we don´t get to see Sasuke.

The flaw of this whole theory is we haven´t seen yet Konoha´s avenger, which will probably reintroduce himself with some upgrade due to him obtaining perfect ems. All valid discussions, but most possibly granting him rinnergan if not other doujutsu.

I see where you are going, but if I were to rush on Madara as a fanboy, i would probably sAY:-hey, he´s the best in ninjutsu.

Remember Naruto before doing toad trianing? He´s said to have had a fighting tech not as good as Sasuke. Now, well....

Frikid · Jan 21, 2013

KidGamer65 said:
Wrong, Perfect Susanoo is simply what Madara calls his Perfect Susanoo. Again, this is you going to the stupid assumption that all Susanoo are the same which is obviously false if you could read the manga, even Sasuke doesn't call his Susanoo Perfect Susanoo, it will still be the same level of Susanoo Madara will have, but it will look different.

Everything is bold just made by wanna slam my face against the desk.....Perfect Susanoo has nothing do with that, first of all no Susanoo as Perfect as they all have their weaknesses. Madara calls it "perfect" because it is so powerful, not because it is literally perfect.

What Madara calls his Perfect Susanoo, is simply a stabilized EMS Susanoo, nothing more. The term "Perfect" has no meaning.

madara calls his susano perfect because maybe it is ACTUALLY PERFECT.
Let me tell you one thing, Madara have the best susano in the manga. Itachi and sasuke's susano is no where near madara's susano.
Let's see what madara's USUAL susano have :
LEGS. HUGE SIZE. CAN BE USED AS A SUMMON (which means, he don't need to be covered around it).
Now madara improved it and hence he got a PERFECT SUSANO.
My point is , even after obtaining EMS sasuke's susano is no where near madara's regular susano. SO he would never get the perfect susano madara have.

Now let me tell you where you are getting it wrong,
Let's see what itachi's susano have, totsuka sword and yata mirror. This makes him virtually invincible. But can you consider it as a perfect susano ? NO! absolutely not.
Sasuke would definitely improve his susano, he might get a amaterasu shield/sword and some other susano upgrade, but still it is not going to be considered as perfect.(and anyway covering susano in amaterasu shows his mastery in amaterasu and not in susano )
And still it is going to be far more weaker than madara's perfect susano. Madara perfected susano by getting legs,armor,sword,4 hands,huge size,good looks etc.
Sasuke wont do that because it isn't his specialty , it is amaterasu.
If sasuke is going to improve in anything out of 3 , it would be amaterasu , Because kishi have decided it to be this way.It is the thing he is best in.

Wrong, Perfect Susanoo is simply what Madara calls his Perfect Susanoo. Again, this is you going to the stupid assumption that all Susanoo are the same which is obviously false if you could read the manga

weren't you visually comparing madara and sasuke's susano and saying sasuke's susano looks same as madara's susano ?

Fantastic Mr Fox said:
Technically speaking, all the jutsu's are just manipulations of Chakra (which everyone has) so anyone should be able to use any jutsu with enough practice (if any trolls have a problem with that, drop it. I don't care.)
The Uchicha have 'evolved' to include a 'short cut' to these techniques through their eyes (alright, not sure how that ever made sense, but let's go with it).
Is it more likely that any given Uchiha is capable of perfecting ONLY one MS supermove IF they even get MS?
OR doesn't it make more sense these particular Uchiha are better at certain moves because (as you said) they simply enhanced the areas they were ALREADY good at?
Itachi was good at genjutsu so now he's also good at tsukiyomi.
Saskue was good at ninjutsu so now he's also good at amaretsu.
etc...
Wouldn't it be possible by the same logic that Saskue could perfect tsukiyomi by working on his overall genjutsu?

IF sasuke work more in his genjutsu , still he wont be able to get perfect tsukiyomi, because kishi don't want it this way.
You know sometimes it is born talent. Everyone have their own specialty.
Look hard work sure helps but if something isn't your specialty , you can't do much about it.
Sasuke must have worked hard in genjutsu , that is why, he could defeat itachi's tsukiyomi and obtained tsukiyomi after getting MS.
But Sasuke's specialty is amaterasu, that is why he could not only summon it, but extinguish and control it. He mastered amaterasu.

veggetta13 said:
You got valid points, arguments. I´d think they´d become plausible as facts, as long as we don´t get to see Sasuke.

The flaw of this whole theory is we haven´t seen yet Konoha´s avenger, which will probably reintroduce himself with some upgrade due to him obtaining perfect ems. All valid discussions, but most possibly granting him rinnergan if not other doujutsu.

I see where you are going, but if I were to rush on Madara as a fanboy, i would probably sAY:-hey, he´s the best in ninjutsu.

Remember Naruto before doing toad trianing? He´s said to have had a fighting tech not as good as Sasuke. Now, well....

I think it is pretty obvious now, that sasuke's powerup will be related to amaterasu. Just everytime we see him, he shows his above average talent in amaterasu.
He could create a amaterasu orb which could shoot amaterasu fireballs. He could instantly create a amaterasu wall which stopped kabuto coming near to him and itachi.

KidGamer65 · Jan 21, 2013

Frikid said:
madara calls his susano perfect because maybe it is ACTUALLY PERFECT.
Let me tell you one thing, Madara have the best susano in the manga. Itachi and sasuke's susano is no where near madara's susano.
Let's see what madara's USUAL susano have :
LEGS. HUGE SIZE. CAN BE USED AS A SUMMON (which means, he don't need to be covered around it).
Now madara improved it and hence he got a PERFECT SUSANO.
My point is , even after obtaining EMS sasuke's susano is no where near madara's regular susano. SO he would never get the perfect susano madara have.

Now let me tell you where you are getting it wrong,
Let's see what itachi's susano have, totsuka sword and yata mirror. This makes him virtually invincible. But can you consider it as a perfect susano ? NO! absolutely not.
Sasuke would definitely improve his susano, he might get a amaterasu shield/sword and some other susano upgrade, but still it is not going to be considered as perfect.(and anyway covering susano in amaterasu shows his mastery in amaterasu and not in susano )
And still it is going to be far more weaker than madara's perfect susano. Madara perfected susano by getting legs,armor,sword,4 hands,huge size,good looks etc.
Sasuke wont do that because it isn't his specialty , it is amaterasu.
If sasuke is going to improve in anything out of 3 , it would be amaterasu , Because kishi have decided it to be this way.It is the thing he is best in.

Bold is exactly what I've been saying, it won't be like Madara's. But I see what you're saying....I still think that he will stabilize his Susanoo as his upgrade to match Naruto. An upgrade in Amaterasu (one he just got anyway) won't help against Naruto, as he can dodge it, what he needs is an upgraded Susanoo.

weren't you visually comparing madara and sasuke's susano and saying sasuke's susano looks same as madara's susano ?

Only in certain characteristics, overall they barely look anything alike.

iKaras · Jan 21, 2013

What is Obito best at? Katon? or *Fill in blank*
Can't say kamui since its Obito eye-only.
What is Shisui best at? Katon? or * Fill in blank*
And why the hell is Obito eyes so special?

veggetta13 · Jan 22, 2013

Frikid said:
I think it is pretty obvious now, that sasuke's powerup will be related to amaterasu. Just everytime we see him, he shows his above average talent in amaterasu.
He could create a amaterasu orb which could shoot amaterasu fireballs. He could instantly create a amaterasu wall which stopped kabuto coming near to him and itachi.

Remember the t-shirt OVA, on which Naruto y suppossedly having his last match vs sasuke?
I believe they will actually exchange a lot of punches, i woulkdn´t know how to explain why i think trhat will happen but it´s quite a hunch. kishi sort of respects or shows signs of it towards his fav characters by giving them long punch fight, very taijutsu style

[Discussion] Sasuke will not get PS.

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