Itachi ( without MS ) vs Mei

[Icelerate]

Something like this shouldn't be a debate. Like Blaze said, if the MS was never revealed Itachi wouldn't be grossly underrated like this.

How exactly does Mei win when all of her attacks are slow, linear and straight forward to counter ?

Since when was Itachi ever grossly underrated?

How are Mei's attacks slow when speedsters such as Madara and Sasuke had to use susanoo to counter them? Joki should come here and school you guys.

 

[Negative Knight]

Since when was Itachi ever grossly underrated?

How are Mei's attacks slow when speedsters such as Madara and Sasuke had to use susanoo to counter them? Joki should come here and school you guys.

Every Vs thread where Itachi doesn't have the MS, people assume he's been stripped of his entire moveset. Its a form of underrating.

Nothing in Mei's arsenal implies its fast enough to hit Itachi, let alone put pressure on him. Madara and Sasuke use Susanno recklessly, even when its not required. Comparing their fighting styles is almost irrelevant.

 

[Icelerate]

Every Vs thread where Itachi doesn't have the MS, people assume he's been stripped of his entire moveset. Its a form of underrating.

Nothing in Mei's arsenal implies its fast enough to hit Itachi, let alone put pressure on him. Madara and Sasuke use Susanno recklessly, even when its not required. Comparing their fighting styles is almost irrelevant.

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She executes two attacks one after the other. It was very fast and will be hard to dodge. Also Itachi can't just shunshin forever. Most of his speed comes from shunshin not real speed like Gai and A who actually train their bodies to move fast. Itachi will run out of chakra eventually.

 

[KidGamer65]

Their logic is weird, far off reality. Their believe is supported by the simply thoughts that Mei will outdo someone like Itachi by just creating an acid fog and cover herself with lava. Not to forget that she will be unaffected by Itachis Genjutsus as being aware of him using the Sharingan and cannot be stomped as she has the title of a Kage. This will indeed be a stomp, people just don't like to admit, for which reason they take her title and knowledge of the Sharingan to have Genjutsus as an argument for her that doesn't let her be that helpless. Itachi in fact is Kage level without the MS, as he can beat the most of the current Kage without using his MS.

Onoki, A , and Gaara beat him if he doesn't use MS so no, he can't beat most of the current Kage.

 

[Negative Knight]

Spoiler

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She executes two attacks one after the other. It was very fast and will be hard to dodge. Also Itachi can't just shunshin forever. Most of his speed comes from shunshin not real speed like Gai and A who actually train their bodies to move fast. Itachi will run out of chakra eventually.

Mei's Water Dragon combo is an S-Rank, Shunshin is a D-Rank. Unless she has chakra levels similar to that of Kisame, i see her losing due to chakra exhaustion quicker than Itachi becoming incapable of using Shunshin.

All of this is under the pretense that he doesn't use Genjutsu right off the bat to immobilize much like he did against Deidara and Oro.

 

[fastrthnwind]

Every Vs thread where Itachi doesn't have the MS, people assume he's been stripped of his entire moveset. Its a form of underrating.

Nothing in Mei's arsenal implies its fast enough to hit Itachi, let alone put pressure on him. Madara and Sasuke use Susanno recklessly, even when its not required. Comparing their fighting styles is almost irrelevant.

We didnt say he had nothing did we?

Its just that without MS, he wont be able to attack her without hurting/killing himself and all of his ninjutsu pale in comparison to hers.

She has knowledge of sharigan and its genjutsu and she obviously isnt going to lose to a finger genjutsu.

Most of what itachi has is all countered, leaving him unable to attack while mei can sit there and attack him to wear him out.

 

[Strict]

Onoki, A , and Gaara beat him if he doesn't use MS so no, he can't beat most of the current Kage.

A is debatable. The Sharingan can follow As movements to some extent and as Itachi was able to keep up with KM Naruto and to able to use his techniques with a speed the Sharingan however couldn't keep up with, he can actually handle the situation. Itachis offense without the MS will surely not be enough to leave damage, but he can still use Genjutsus in various forms he can combine with feints to catch him off guard. It can be a matter of seconds where A can fall for one of Itachis Genjutsu, normally it's the case that his opponents are in a Genjuts already in the beginning, without noticing it. Therefore I'm saying that it's debatable.

 

[fastrthnwind]

A is debatable. The Sharingan can follow As movements to some extent and as Itachi was able to keep up with KM Naruto and to able to use his techniques with a speed the Sharingan however couldn't keep up with, he can actually handle the situation. Itachis offense without the MS will surely not be enough to leave damage, but he can still use Genjutsus in various forms he can combine with feints to catch him off guard. It can be a matter of seconds where A can fall for one of Itachis Genjutsu, normally it's the case that his opponents are in a Genjuts already in the beginning, without noticing it. Therefore I'm saying that it's debatable.

Itachi will not be able to keep up with A. Period. Naruto cannot use his super-speed all the time like everyone seems to suggest. A himself said he wont be able to fall for mere sharingan genjutsu and it required madara to physically hold him in place with susanoo and use tsukuyomi on him to actually put him in genjutsu.

 

[fastrthnwind]

Mei's Water Dragon combo is an S-Rank, Shunshin is a D-Rank. Unless she has chakra levels similar to that of Kisame, i see her losing due to chakra exhaustion quicker than Itachi becoming incapable of using Shunshin.

All of this is under the pretense that he doesn't use Genjutsu right off the bat to immobilize much like he did against Deidara and Oro.

She doesnt need to exhaust herself using high chakra taxing jutsu like that. She only does that if itachi tries to attack her with one of his ninjutsu.

Deidara didnt know of the sharingans abilities including its genjutsu, so of course hes gonna be one shotted by it. orochimaru let his guard down because he was confronting a child back then. Mei is a kage level shinobi who is facing an adult itachi and knows of the sharigans genjutsu capabilities. She isnt gonna be one-shotted like Oro and deidara.

 

[KidGamer65]

A is debatable. The Sharingan can follow As movements to some extent and as Itachi was able to keep up with KM Naruto and to able to use his techniques with a speed the Sharingan however couldn't keep up with, he can actually handle the situation. Itachis offense without the MS will surely not be enough to leave damage, but he can still use Genjutsus in various forms he can combine with feints to catch him off guard. It can be a matter of seconds where A can fall for one of Itachis Genjutsu, normally it's the case that his opponents are in a Genjuts already in the beginning, without noticing it. Therefore I'm saying that it's debatable.

Naruto and A use their speed in different ways. Sharingan could follow A until he used his V2 Shunshin, as Sasuke was looking around for A when he used his V2 Raiton Armor combined with Shunshin to dodge Amaterasu. When Naruto fought Itachi, he didn't use Shunshin once so that isn't a valid example. A has knowledge on Sharingan Genjutsu and he has the speed to escape the Sharingan's vision, if Itachi can't see him once he uses Shunshin then he can't catch him in Genjutsu.

 

[Blaze Release]

I know Itachi has a ton of feats but just listing them doesn't automatically means he wins against an opponent with less screen time. This also goes for Strict, Owarij or anyone else supporting Itachi. He does have a good chance at victory but I think Mei's chances are probably higher.

Okay then.
All of mei's technique involves raising her head and looking at her opponent.

May i also that people usually say well an opponent will not look into itachi's eyes.
Erm, the opponent doesn't have to look in his eyes, itachi has to look into the opponents eyes. Something to note also is that, how many ninja's in the manga do we know of who can still fight at 100% without eye contact.

So far, we have gai and kabuto and to an extent kakashi who isn't as good as gai.
Now if you have never used such a strategy before, surely implementing a new strategy in the heat of a fight will put you at a disadvantage because you are not used to fighting this way.

Not looking into's an opponent's eyes is something that mei will have to adjust to whilst fighting itachi and in the end it may very well be that, it would be her down fall. She would think too much about not looking into his eyes to avoid genjutsu but as we all know when you have bunshin and one that can explode at any time it would cause her trouble.

Mei it seems has a rather large reserve and can produce water. Now itachi is also a suiton user, he would use this very water that mei produces to his advantages for his very own water techniques. If it comes down to it, mei isn't keeping up with itachi's ninjutsu execution whilst maintaining her stance, a stance she has to adopt just to evade genjutsu and funny enough its itachi doesn't only have dojutsu based genjutsu under his sleeve.

Mei new strategy she has to adopt will put her at a disadvantage and as sakura said herself here [

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], its not easy. Her mind would constantly be on maintaining this strategy, forgetting that itachi isn't all genjutsu. She has to keep her mind occupied on genjutsu and at the same time itachi's ninjutsu execution, er no

 

[Bogard]

Naruto and A use their speed in different ways. Sharingan could follow A until he used his V2 Shunshin, as Sasuke was looking around for A when he used his V2 Raiton Armor combined with Shunshin to dodge Amaterasu. When Naruto fought Itachi, he didn't use Shunshin once so that isn't a valid example. A has knowledge on Sharingan Genjutsu and he has the speed to escape the Sharingan's vision, if Itachi can't see him once he uses Shunshin then he can't catch him in Genjutsu.

I believe that either Naruto doesn't control his speed, or Kishi only uses it when he feels the need. It's obvious that when we see Naruto fighting, he uses his shunshin speed really rarely, and that was the case against Itachi as well(probably because he only wanted to talk though). There are even some moments where he was surpassed in speed by V2 Jinchurikis and with a comparison you could think that Kakashi and Gai were faster. This pic is an example of that

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He had difficulties to keep up with V2 along with Hachibi, yet Kakashi and Gai were handling them. So either Naruto's shunshin is only random, or Kishi simply uses it randomly

 

[KidGamer65]

I believe that either Naruto doesn't control his speed, or Kishi only uses it when he feels the need. It's obvious that when we see Naruto fighting, he uses his shunshin speed really rarely, and that was the case against Itachi as well(probably because he only wanted to talk though). There are even some moments where he was surpassed in speed by V2 Jinchurikis and with a comparison you could think that Kakashi and Gai were faster. This pic is an example of that

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He had difficulties to keep up with V2 along with Hachibi, yet Kakashi and Gai were handling them. So either Naruto's shunshin is only random, or Kishi simply uses it randomly

Yeah, I agree. It also seems like he only uses it when he wants to cover large distances.

(Deflecting Bijuu Dama, Saving Kakashi and Bee from Obito and Madara.)

 

[fastrthnwind]

Okay then.
All of mei's technique involves raising her head and looking at her opponent.

May i also that people usually say well an opponent will not look into itachi's eyes.
Erm, the opponent doesn't have to look in his eyes, itachi has to look into the opponents eyes. Something to note also is that, how many ninja's in the manga do we know of who can still fight at 100% without eye contact.

So far, we have gai and kabuto and to an extent kakashi who isn't as good as gai.
Now if you have never used such a strategy before, surely implementing a new strategy in the heat of a fight will put you at a disadvantage because you are not used to fighting this way.

Not looking into's an opponent's eyes is something that mei will have to adjust to whilst fighting itachi and in the end it may very well be that, it would be her down fall. She would think too much about not looking into his eyes to escape genjutsu but as well know when you have bunshin and one that can explode at any time it would cause her trouble.

Mei it seems has a rather large reserve and can produce water. Now itachi is also a suiton user, he would use this very water that mei produces to his advantages for his very own water techniques. If it comes down to it, mei isn't keeping up with itachi's ninjutsu execution whilst maintaining her stance, a stance she has to adopt just to evade genjutsu and funny enough its itachi doesn't only have dojutsu based genjutsu under his sleeve

She may need to look at Itachi, but not necesssarily his eyes to know his position.

Its not that either opponent has to look into each others eyes. All that is required is that eye contact is made, no matter who is the first to do so willlingly or unwillingly.

Again, her acid mist and lava jutsu will render her virtually untouchable, so itachi has no choice but to attack her physically because her ninjutsu is far more powerful than his. She could probably use hidden mist justu to hide her and change the acidity to make it much more deadly to even try to enter.

Making a shadow clone to overwhelm her will be fruitless and only serve to cut itachi's already below-average chakra levels(at least in comparison to Mei herself) in half because she can use many wide range elemental ninjutsu consisting of lava release, boil release, water release, fire release, and earth release that she can us to aid her.

 

[Blaze Release]

She may need to look at Itachi, but not necesssarily his eyes to know his position.

Its not that either opponent has to look into each others eyes. All that is required is that eye contact is made, no matter who is the first to do so willlingly or unwillingly.

Obviously she can look at him, but not above the neck or else risks alot. Looking at him btw even if it isn't above the neck is dangerous because then its itachi who need to make sure that their eyes meet. All im saying is that a ninja adjusting to a strategy they have never used before will undoubtedly put them at a greater disadvantage and when you are fighting itachi, giving him the advantage doesn't help your case

Again, her acid mist and lava jutsu will render her virtually untouchable because itachi has no choice but to attack her physically because her ninjutsu is far more powerful than his. Making a shadow clone to overwhelm her will be fruitless and only serve to cut itachi's already below-average chakra levels(at least in comparison to Mei herself) in half because she can use many wide range elemental ninjutsu consisting of lava release, boil release, water release, fire release, and earth release that she can us to aid her.

Explain the blod part. I havent seen mei use either as a form of defence like how sasuke uses amaterasu or naruto has his chakra cloak. Btw karasu bunshin's take very little chakra and that can serve the same purpose. Mei hasn't shown any doton or katon jutsu's at least not that im aware off. Besides some of what they demonstrates can be anticipated and copied

 

[fastrthnwind]

Obviously she can look at him, but not above the neck or else risks alot. Looking at him btw even if it isn't above the neck is dangerous because then its itachi who need to make sure that their eyes meet. All im saying is that a ninja adjusting to a strategy they have never used before will undoubtedly put them at a greater disadvantage and when you are fighting itachi, giving him the advantage doesn't help your case

Totally understandable, but the mizukage is able to use hidden mist jutsu, meaning that she is more than likely able to use silent killing techniques of some sort and could use hearing to locate itachi's position from within the mist, effectively negating all forms of eye contact necessary to cast a genjutsu upon her.

Explain the blod part. I havent seen mei use either as a form of defence like how sasuke uses amaterasu or naruto has his chakra cloak. Btw karasu bunshin's take very little chakra and that can serve the same purpose. Mei hasn't shown any doton or katon jutsu's at least not that im aware off. Besides some of what they demonstrates can be anticipated and copied

As I mentioned earlier, she could use the hidden mist jutsu to hide herself and use her boil release to change the acidity so that itachi wont be able to enter. The lava release has been used as a defence before as a very pliable rubber wall, though a lava moat around her could be useful as well since we dont know if she can use it like deadai did with naruto. It is known that being able to use elemental KKG requires her to use both elemental releases in unison, meaning that she is capable of using the other elemenal jutsus like any other person. Her proficiency with each is to be determined with the exception of her water release.

Itachi may be able to anticipate the jutsu being used because of the different color of elemental chakra that the sharingan can see and avoid it accordingly, but copying it will not prove to be very useful considering that many of her techniques requier a significant amount of chakra, something that Itachi will need to conserve if he wants to stay alive in this fight,

 

[fayeon]

i think the fight would be so sexy lol they are good together anyway i think mei will win

 

[Blaze Release]

Totally understandable, but the mizukage is able to use hidden mist jutsu, meaning that she is more than likely able to use silent killing techniques of some sort and could use hearing to locate itachi's position from within the mist, effectively negating all forms of eye contact necessary to cast a genjutsu upon her.

See i said i was going to watch from the side lines and somehow ive been involved :T_T:. Mei can use the kirigakure no jutsu however she doesn't practice silent killing, not sure where you got that from unless you can upload a scan. If lets say she can use silent killing, she wouldnt be as effective as zabuza who's main fighting style is based around this. The jutsu would be used as a defensive measure for genjutsu since it blocks the sharingan rather than for offensive measure because as i said she isn't silent killing.

However this jutsu could be used against her because itachi isn't a sensor however he seems to be incredibly aware of his surroundings and as the manga states he seems to have a sixth sense when it comes to reading opponents. Secondly he was in konoha's anbu assassination squad, surely this technique would best suit somebody of his skills more so than mei if it comes to swift killing

As I mentioned earlier, she could use the hidden mist jutsu to hide herself and use her boil release to change the acidity so that itachi wont be able to enter. The lava release has been used as a defence before as a very pliable rubber wall, though a lava moat around her could be useful as well since we dont know if she can use it like deadai did with naruto. It is known that being able to use elemental KKG requires her to use both elemental releases in unison, meaning that she is capable of using the other elemenal jutsus like any other person. Her proficiency with each is to be determined with the exception of her water release.

Nice but wouldnt the acidity possible change affect the kirigakure technique. Might either cause the mist to disperse or will act similar to something like this, buy giving the mist 'colour'. [

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] Sure in that case itachi obviously wouldn't enter, but she isn't staying like that forever. Also noye the location is amegakure, its constantly raining this might affect the ph level of the mist. I do know that she has a kg which means that she can possible use doton, katon and what not however in a vs thread only cannon techniques are used. Ill need to analyse a technique and if she hasn't shown a technique how am i analysis it. Cannon techniques used by the character and that only is what i do when i get into a vs thread

Itachi may be able to anticipate the jutsu being used because of the different color of elemental chakra that the sharingan can see and avoid it accordingly, but copying it will not prove to be very useful considering that many of her techniques requier a significant amount of chakra, something that Itachi will need to conserve if he wants to stay alive in this fight,

Again the location may play apart though its vague because amegakure is vast. However rain is still imminent which might cause her lava release some trouble along with the ph levels of her boil release.
Rain might possible cause puddles and again, this could be used to conserve his reserves and use the water around him. Also apart from copying techniques the sharigan allows the user to anticipate an attack and mei's hanseal speed is no where near fast enough that itachi's sharingan cannot read it. Damn im rusty

 

[Prince Charles]

Mei would pose a threat but in the end i see itachi winning.

 

[fastrthnwind]

See i said i was going to watch from the side lines and somehow ive been involved :T_T:. Mei can use the kirigakure no jutsu however she doesn't practice silent killing, not sure where you got that from unless you can upload a scan. If lets say she can use silent killing, she wouldnt be as effective as zabuza who's main fighting style is based around this. The jutsu would be used as a defensive measure for genjutsu since it blocks the sharingan rather than for offensive measure because as i said she isn't silent killing.

However this jutsu could be used against her because itachi isn't a sensor however he seems to be incredibly aware of his surroundings and as the manga states he seems to have a sixth sense when it comes to reading opponents. Secondly he was in konoha's anbu assassination squad, surely this technique would best suit somebody of his skills more so than mei if it comes to swift killing

MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Everything is going to according to plan :zonder:

*Ahem* Anyways, it is possible that before she became hokage that she had been a Hunter-nin or a part of a Kirigakura ANBU squad before she became mizukage. It would make sense because there is little point in learning an assassination technique such as the hidden mist jutsu and not being able to use it to its fullest potential through the art of silent killing. Again this is mostly speculation, but it is valid since she does have this jutsu in her arsenal, so it isn't exactly out of the question either.

For someone who relies very heavily on the use of his eyes to defeat his opponents, I find it very hard for someone to be able to effectively counter this jutsu in order to 'read' his opponent. Itachi may have been part of an assasination squad for a little while and it could help him to find his way, but he first has to be able to enter it due to the acidity.

Nice but wouldnt the acidity possible change affect the kirigakure technique. Might either cause the mist to disperse or will act similar to something like this, buy giving the mist 'colour'. [

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] Sure in that case itachi obviously wouldn't enter, but she isn't staying like that forever. Also noye the location is amegakure, its constantly raining this might affect the ph level of the mist. I do know that she has a kg which means that she can possible use doton, katon and what not however in a vs thread only cannon techniques are used. Ill need to analyse a technique and if she hasn't shown a technique how am i analysis it. Cannon techniques used by the character and that only is what i do when i get into a vs thread

The mist would be colored with her chakra anyways. It would just change it to a new color instead. You are right in that the rain could affect the ph of the mist, but its not like it is alway raining in amegakure. Remember that one of the reasons why it rained so much is because Nagato was using it as a sensory tool to sense for any infiltrators. Without someone like Nagato to keep it constantly raining, it is possible that there are times when it is much drier. This is something that we might have to confirm with the OP to be sure.

I can also understand your want of discussing only canon techniques so that it can be analyzed properly to make a decent rebuttal. I was merely pointing out that as a KKG user that she has several elemental affinities that she can use to her advantage, which is much greater than what itachi has shown.

Again the location may play apart though its vague because amegakure is vast. However rain is still imminent which might cause her lava release some trouble along with the ph levels of her boil release.
Rain might possible cause puddles and again, this could be used to conserve his reserves and use the water around him. Also apart from copying techniques the sharigan allows the user to anticipate an attack and mei's hanseal speed is no where near fast enough that itachi's sharingan cannot read it. Damn im rusty

As I mentioned earlier, we may have to confirm this with the OP about the rain because it will definitely play an important factor as to whether it will hinder Mei or not. The rain/puddles will give a greater advantage to Mei, being a natural water user and demonstrating superior level water techniques. Using existing water will help her to conserve chakra even more so than itachi.

Itachi has to see the handseals in order to read and copy the technique, which is nullified with the hidden jutsu. The only technique he will be able to see initially is the first one she makes for the hidden mist jutsu. Not only that, but actually replicating her jutsu would be pointless because the scale of the jutsu is so large and Itachi will only be able to recreate an inferior version due to his lower-than average chakra reserves and because he doesnt have a natural affinity to water like Mei.

Dont worry, keep debating with me and you'll be back in business in no time