Hashirama and "Prime" Hiruzen. Shedding light on both fandoms
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PureSkillz
Active member
KamuiShiryu
Member
Hiruzen feat= sealing the 2nd and 1st hokage and orochimarus arms, " could call it a tie"
hashirama feat = deafting madara and the ninetails " we dont know how mito help all we know is she helped nor do we have anything to compare a EMS madara power lvl"
It's about time someone cleared this up. I think that Hashirama, as seen defeating Madara Uchiha on multiple occasions, is stronger than the 3rd. Sure Hiruzen beat many kage, but Madara accomplished that handily during the war and is equipped with Susano'o and EMS. Alongside with Madara being able to control the 9-Tails during his fights with Hashirama, I believe that Hashirama is stronger just by beating a better enemy. And Hashirama established a village and is Hiruzens teacher. But I could be wrong.
KamuiShiryu
Member
not sure if ur joking or just dumb.... u do know hashirama never beat the madara we are seeing right now in the war right? go read the manga again then come back
The Valley of the End (終末の谷, Shūmatsu no Tani; English TV "Final Valley") is located close to the border of the Land of Fire and the Land of Sound.[1] Shortly after the foundation of Konoha, Hashirama Senju and Madara Uchiha fought for control of the village. Hashirama emerged victorious and Madara was believed to have died. (All thanks to Naruto.wikia.com)
Not sure if your just joking or just dumb. how about go read the manga, then come back
KamuiShiryu
Member
o wow..... hashirama beat EMS madara he never went up against... an edo madara with unlimited charka, Senju DNA, ability to use mokuton, and Rinnegan do u understand now or are u still blind......
edgarmagician
Member
The problems with this statement are:
1. The hype Madara is giving Hashi does not matter since Madara never fought prime Hiruzen. If they would have fought then you can take this in consideration.
2. We have seen a lot of Hashi Techs that Madara is using. We only saw a few in an old Hiruzen fight. Still he was able to fight the first, secon, and orochimaru without being obliterated in a second like many people believe.
3. Hiruzen was Hashi's student which menas that he knew all his techniques.
4. Hashi and Tobirama died at some point between the 1st and 2nd Ninja Wars were Hiruzen fought, as a kid, and survived. That should tell you something. Lets say that the 1st and the 2nd died protecting Hiruzen (don't believe it really happened); Hiruzen was still able to fight the rast of the war and in all of them without a loss.
As far as we know, aside from the tsuchikage (oonoki) no other Kage, including Hashirama, lived as long as Hiruzen. Even thou there is no proof in the manga, it can be deducted that Hiruzen was one of the strongest characters in the Naruto world thus being stronger than Hasirama.
That's not what I meant. But did orochimaru ever use his true form against Hiruzen either. I meant that what Madara has now, who also states that if Hashirama was reanimated, the allied forces would have lost. Which is also why I believe that Hashirama could still beat madara with all the power ups. but remember, Hashirama also went up against the kyuubi at the same time during the valley of the end.
finish to my second sentence: I meant that with what Madara has now, who also states that if hashirama was reanimated to his full potential, the allied forces would have lost, thus making hashirama better in Madara's eyes.
If you can prove to me that what I have said was wrong, than I will admit defeat. but not if you don't use pages or text from websites with links. Also on a hiruzen note, it is stated in the data books that Hiruzen has a 34, which is the highest possible. No shinobi has that high of a rank
The Alchemist
Active member
Actually they used more than just two jutsu each, you forget water dragon bullets and deep forest emergence. Also Orochimaru wanted to have them toy with Hiruzen to make the defeat more humiliating and he failed because Hiruzen used his arrogance to defeat them all. Yes he defeated Orochimaru by at least taking away the most precious thing to him, i.e; his ability to use his jutsu. Hiruzen stopped Orochimaru's plans for destroying the leaf and that is of course what the will of fire is all about, to protect those most precious to you. For Hiruzen that was the entire leaf village.
Hashirama defeated EMS MAdara(defeat doesn't mean death, it also means stopping your opponents aims) who possessed his fan and the Kyuubi. Get over it dude. These two were the greatest Hokages that can't be denied, and they both fulfilled their duties as Hokages.
Hashirama defeated EMS MAdara(defeat doesn't mean death, it also means stopping your opponents aims) who possessed his fan and the Kyuubi. Get over it dude. These two were the greatest Hokages that can't be denied, and they both fulfilled their duties as Hokages.
tracytracy22
Member
Rank has nothing to do with power. Its to do with the difficulty of performing a technique.
Knights Saotome
Member
while i have no doubts about the 3rds power, i also believe people dont understand how the fight with oro went down.
1. if you notice hashi never really "tries" in the fight, also recovers easily from every attack (in more or less the same way he would alive. while tobriama looked like he was serious, and caught off guard and knocked down.
2. As op said, oro wasnt useing them for their jutsu, all he wanted them to do was exhaust the 3rd.
3. 3rd ended it before it was over anyway, he knew he couldnt win and so resorted to the RDS.
4. oro didnt master edo Tensei, so the 1st and 2nds power wasnt at full power.
The only thing i dont understand about that fight, is if oro let them fight on their own why didnt the creator of the edo Tensei use the release and turn the whole tide of battle then and there? like if his arch-rival clan leader knows it how dose he not as it creator?
1. if you notice hashi never really "tries" in the fight, also recovers easily from every attack (in more or less the same way he would alive. while tobriama looked like he was serious, and caught off guard and knocked down.
2. As op said, oro wasnt useing them for their jutsu, all he wanted them to do was exhaust the 3rd.
3. 3rd ended it before it was over anyway, he knew he couldnt win and so resorted to the RDS.
4. oro didnt master edo Tensei, so the 1st and 2nds power wasnt at full power.
The only thing i dont understand about that fight, is if oro let them fight on their own why didnt the creator of the edo Tensei use the release and turn the whole tide of battle then and there? like if his arch-rival clan leader knows it how dose he not as it creator?
lucian011707
Member
there are a couple things wrong with the whole debate. The problem is that it shouldnt even be one. We all read the same manga. So that means we all see the same pictures and read the same words. Kishi (The creator and god of the naruto universe) said that the third is the strongest of all the hokages, or that fact kages period. You cant argue with the creator.
And for those who say he knew the techniques in the leaf but couldnt use it. look back at the technique he used to find the 1st and 2nd in the genjutsu. He smelled them out. Sound familiar. Of course it is the same ability used by Kiba's clan. that proves he did know clan specific tech.
Please stop throwing madara into the this saying that only hashirama can defeat him. Do you all think Hashirama is going to appear and stop madara now. No he will lose to another shinobi beside hashirama so that will void that whole arguement. also the fact that the third made the fight a draw. To my memory hashirama didnt kill madara either. so what does that mean?
Last you people don't realize the magnitude of that fight. Show me where a living breathing character fought 3 kage level shinobi at one time and still stop them in the entire naruto manga. Thats right there isnt any.
And for those who say he knew the techniques in the leaf but couldnt use it. look back at the technique he used to find the 1st and 2nd in the genjutsu. He smelled them out. Sound familiar. Of course it is the same ability used by Kiba's clan. that proves he did know clan specific tech.
Please stop throwing madara into the this saying that only hashirama can defeat him. Do you all think Hashirama is going to appear and stop madara now. No he will lose to another shinobi beside hashirama so that will void that whole arguement. also the fact that the third made the fight a draw. To my memory hashirama didnt kill madara either. so what does that mean?
Last you people don't realize the magnitude of that fight. Show me where a living breathing character fought 3 kage level shinobi at one time and still stop them in the entire naruto manga. Thats right there isnt any.
Knights Saotome
Member
and truth is hashi is so strong that madrara ADMITS the ONLY person how could stop him is the first hokage. that means hashi has the power, or maybe the knowhow (like why madrara didnt want to release the contract in the first place?) to stop CURRENT madrara, edo with rinnigan and ps. hashi is considered a fairy tale because the tales told of him lost their creditability when hashi was no longer around to prove them and do them. also i wonder how he died?
EDIT: i think hashi would win in a fight, and in terms of power is stronger. but the 3rd knows more tech, even tech hashi would never be allowed to learn. also the 3rd is nicknamed "the professor" so its safe to say hes at least as smart as shikaku. both would be able to hold off/defeat/seal a Tailed beast, but not the only chars to be called "gods". pain was called "god" by many but could he defeat hashi? no for the same reason, his healing ability is superhuman, faster then tusnade's and forever lasting and able to regen organs and limbs. its almost like fighting an edo.
EDIT: i think hashi would win in a fight, and in terms of power is stronger. but the 3rd knows more tech, even tech hashi would never be allowed to learn. also the 3rd is nicknamed "the professor" so its safe to say hes at least as smart as shikaku. both would be able to hold off/defeat/seal a Tailed beast, but not the only chars to be called "gods". pain was called "god" by many but could he defeat hashi? no for the same reason, his healing ability is superhuman, faster then tusnade's and forever lasting and able to regen organs and limbs. its almost like fighting an edo.
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Nice logic, I halfway agree with you that there shouldn't be an argument. But it's a dispute between teacher and student. I think both are pretty damn amazing at being shinobi (along with the Hokage always being the strongest Kage). But someone defeating Madara hasn't happened yet, so until then, the argument is still valid. I'm guessing the person to take down Madara will be Naruto.
PrimeOfTheSixPaths
Active member
By what Kishi says, with my opinion:
Hashirama
Hiruzen
Minato
Tobirama
Tsunade
On who is the strongest Hokages, although I believe Minato couldve at least surpassed Hiruzen had he lived longer.
Hashirama
Hiruzen
Minato
Tobirama
Tsunade
On who is the strongest Hokages, although I believe Minato couldve at least surpassed Hiruzen had he lived longer.
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