Kurama's Ability

[Thundercles]

First off. The Yin part is sealed in Minato, who is sealed by the death reaper..

2nd, no TBB doesn't require yin + yang. We have seen other shinobi using only yin or only yang to create / use ninjutsu. 2nd mizukage is a good example..

EDIT: Also Bee seemed to be very surprised about Narutos rasengan. I doubt it has anything to with yin or yang. Bee would know.. So it has probably nothing to do with yin and yang.

Also Kurama never used a TBB, when he took over Naruto? That one against Oro was just pure chakra I think. And he swallowed it. So it's probably not the same. But inside Naruto, when he fought Kurama to gain control over the chakra, he did try to use a TBB. So that kind of bashes it, doesn't it? I mean Kurama couldn't possibly use Narutos chakra there? Though I didn't check if he really did. I just think I remember it? xd

You make some very good points, but here goes:
#1 Death Reaper/Minato, doesn't matter. My point is: Kurama doen't have it.
#2 Before I can retort, please give me an example of your ref to the Mizukage. I would like to see some of these "jutsu" that don't require Yin/Yang.
#3 Kurama being inside Naruto does mean he can access Naruto's Yin chakra. They have a symbiotic relationship. They are one and the same, pretty much. Naruto feels Kurama some of his chakra and Kurama does the same. So, if Kurama could have spurts of influencing/controlling Naruto, why do you think he couldn't have some access to Naruto's Yin chakra?

Let me know what ya think.

 

[thegame]

You make some very good points, but here goes:
#1 Death Reaper/Minato, doesn't matter. My point is: Kurama doen't have it.
#2 Before I can retort, please give me an example of your ref to the Mizukage. I would like to see some of these "jutsu" that don't require Yin/Yang.
#3 Kurama being inside Naruto does mean he can access Naruto's Yin chakra. They have a symbiotic relationship. They are one and the same, pretty much. Naruto feels Kurama some of his chakra and Kurama does the same. So, if Kurama could have spurts of influencing/controlling Naruto, why do you think he couldn't have some access to Naruto's Yin chakra?

Let me know what ya think.

#1 yeah, I just think it's of more importance that it's in Minato,
#2 well it's my belief and many others that he uses only yin release. Fact is, you don't need both to do something. Yin release is the spiritual energy that forms imagination.
yang is physical energy, which forms "real" things.

So you need to both to create things that you imagine.

Here is the explanation:

Spoiler

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What 2nd Mizukage did, was to create a mirage. Obviously he was just creating an illusion, which wasn't a genjutsu. So obviously it must be yin release. So he had no yang release.

I doubtfully think there is either yin or yang in Narutos TBB. To me it just seems like adding the kuybis chakra to the rasengan instead of Narutos own win manipulating chakra. Thus it looks different. So Naruto basically already mastered the TBB before he learned it. As Bee noted. Rasengan was taught to Naruto for that sole purpose.

#3 Again I don't agree here, since this was Naruto vs the fox. Fighting for each others chakra. It didn't mix as I interpret it.

 

[ROSH2]

As we know, Kurama had half of his chakra stored in the shinigami (Yin) and the other half in Naruto (Yang). Now, Yin is creation from nothingness, the imagination part. It gives the form of a technique. Yang is putting life in that form. It is similar from Orochimaru's comparison of blue and yellow making green. Why am I explaining this? Well something stuck out from a few chapters ago and it came up yet again:

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Looks kinda familiar? It is the very same thing Naruto does when he gathers natural energy. Now we know that natural energy is different from how normal chakra is used, as normal chakra comes from within and natural is from the environment. Now why would Kurama be gathering natural energy? Well he is a giant form of energy/chakra. So it would make sense that he can generate energy/chakra.

So we know that he can gather/generate chakra. But what is the other part of it? Well, Kurama lacks Yin chakra, therefore, he can't technically form a jutsu or tech like TBB on his own. He needs Naruto for that. You might ask, "Why, then, did we see him use a TBB in Naruto's subconscious?" Well, I believe that is due to his/Naruto's relationship. It is symbiotic relationship. Kurama can completely form a tech due to Naruto, since he has Yin chakra. You see this when Naruto goes BM. He is using Kurama's chakra (Yang) to enhance his abilities. But when Kurama takes over, he is able to do TBB since Naruto has Yin.

Summary: Kurama can gather and provide (Yang) chakra (which fuels BM) and can, in turn, perform TBB due to Naruto's Yin charka. Since their relationship is symbiotic and they benefit from each other.

Hope you enjoyed the read. Have a good day!

PS: This would also mean that Kurama would not be able to use genjutsu (if Tailed Beasts could), as according to the 2nd Mizukage, genjutsu falls under Yin release.

also naruto yin chakra reserve is big because he is a half uzumaki

 

[Thundercles]

#1 yeah, I just think it's of more importance that it's in Minato,
#2 well it's my belief and many others that he uses only yin release. Fact is, you don't need both to do something. Yin release is the spiritual energy that forms imagination.
yang is physical energy, which forms "real" things.

So you need to both to create things that you imagine.

Here is the explanation:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

What 2nd Mizukage did, was to create a mirage. Obviously he was just creating an illusion, which wasn't a genjutsu. So obviously it must be yin release. So he had no yang release.

I doubtfully think there is either yin or yang in Narutos TBB. To me it just seems like adding the kuybis chakra to the rasengan instead of Narutos own win manipulating chakra. Thus it looks different. So Naruto basically already mastered the TBB before he learned it. As Bee noted. Rasengan was taught to Naruto for that sole purpose.

#3 Again I don't agree here, since this was Naruto vs the fox. Fighting for each others chakra. It didn't mix as I interpret it.

#2 I checked the classification of his Mirage. It is a genjutsu as well as just a Yin release tech.
#3 That might have been true if it wasn't done in the subconscious. It wasn't an actual physical fight as much as mental. Like, while Naruto is fighting the Kyuubi, it is just his mind, while his physical body was in the room with Bee. Also, if Kurama could influence Naruto, behind the seal/cage, then why wouldn't he be able to draw from Naruto with the seal removed, as it was when Naruto battled him?

 

[thegame]

#2 I checked the classification of his Mirage. It is a genjutsu as well as just a Yin release tech.
#3 That might have been true if it wasn't done in the subconscious. It wasn't an actual physical fight as much as mental. Like, while Naruto is fighting the Kyuubi, it is just his mind, while his physical body was in the room with Bee. Also, if Kurama could influence Naruto, behind the seal/cage, then why wouldn't he be able to draw from Naruto with the seal removed, as it was when Naruto battled him?

#2 Well all genjutsu is not the due to yin release. I don't think every shinobi has yin or yang it release. It is more rare. But std genjutsu as for instance Kurenai uses, is not done with yin release. It is simply by manipulating ones mind.

Yin release can turn your genjutsu into something "real", though it still has no physical form. But it will still not be a genjutsu affecting your enemies brain, but their eye sight. This is waay different, since no one can stop it, like they can stop a normal genjutsu.

#3 Well you do have a point, but as I already stated, I don't think he needs yin release to do it.

1. It doesn't make sense. The TBB is not something he creates with his imagination. Like Izanagi. You actually die, but using your imagination, you can make yourself stay alive (yin). And using chakra you can give that imagination physical form (yang).

The TBB is just made from Naruto manipulating physical chakra. If he needed yin release (which I BTW, am pretty sure that Naruto hasn't, since he is Uzumaki, and they are descendants of the senju, who was given yang powers as Hashirama wood element, and Tsunades super healing techs).
In general it's likely that it's created with yang chakra from the kuybi, but it's unlikely that there is any yin in it. I just don't see the evidence for it.
I can see your point as to, why the tailed beast needs yin and yang release to form the TBB (after giving it more thought), but that totally explains why Naruto was taught the rasengan. Jiraya was aware that only the yang part was sealed. He even gave it a lot of thought, when he discussed with the key frog. Minato did everything for a reason. So in general, if Naruto went berserk in a young age, I doubt the fox could've used TBB, but only with Narutos knowledge of the rasengan. This could explain it, at least. Also it would prove what Jiraya thought. Since why else would he teach Naruto the rasengan? To give him the possibility to create the TBB. But if Kurama was released, he couldn't do it anymore.

 

[Thundercles]

#2 Well all genjutsu is not the due to yin release. I don't think every shinobi has yin or yang it release. It is more rare. But std genjutsu as for instance Kurenai uses, is not done with yin release. It is simply by manipulating ones mind.

Yin release can turn your genjutsu into something "real", though it still has no physical form. But it will still not be a genjutsu affecting your enemies brain, but their eye sight. This is waay different, since no one can stop it, like they can stop a normal genjutsu.

#3 Well you do have a point, but as I already stated, I don't think he needs yin release to do it.

1. It doesn't make sense. The TBB is not something he creates with his imagination. Like Izanagi. You actually die, but using your imagination, you can make yourself stay alive (yin). And using chakra you can give that imagination physical form (yang).

The TBB is just made from Naruto manipulating physical chakra. If he needed yin release (which I BTW, am pretty sure that Naruto hasn't, since he is Uzumaki, and they are descendants of the senju, who was given yang powers as Hashirama wood element, and Tsunades super healing techs).
In general it's likely that it's created with yang chakra from the kuybi, but it's unlikely that there is any yin in it. I just don't see the evidence for it.
I can see your point as to, why the tailed beast needs yin and yang release to form the TBB (after giving it more thought), but that totally explains why Naruto was taught the rasengan. Jiraya was aware that only the yang part was sealed. He even gave it a lot of thought, when he discussed with the key frog. Minato did everything for a reason. So in general, if Naruto went berserk in a young age, I doubt the fox could've used TBB, but only with Narutos knowledge of the rasengan. This could explain it, at least. Also it would prove what Jiraya thought. Since why else would he teach Naruto the rasengan? To give him the possibility to create the TBB. But if Kurama was released, he couldn't do it anymore.

#2 The Mizukage even states that genjutsu is Yin release

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And remember how Itachi's Tsukuyomi affected Kakashi mentally and physically? To affect the brain, affects the body.

#3 Good points. I need to dwell on this. Good job on stumping me.

Edit: I disagree about Uzumaki not being able to use Yin. More to come on that.

 

[thegame]

#2 The Mizukage even states that genjutsu is Yin release

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And remember how Itachi's Tsukuyomi affected Kakashi mentally and physically? To affect the brain, affects the body.

#3 Good points. I need to dwell on this. Good job on stumping me.

Edit: I disagree about Uzumaki not being able to use Yin. More to come on that.

#2 Yeah I can't really disagree with the manga xd but I do think it's a bad translation on this part. Not all genjutsu is due to yin release. But obviously yin release goes under the genjutsu genre. But this will be explained in the 4th databook. I think I will look for the viz translation on this chapter. Anyway, I didn't really notice him actually mentioning yin release, so thanks at least

Itachis Tsukuyomi is different. I have tried to explain this before in a thread, but it's quite a complex and long explanation. Also look in the 3rd databook. Tsukuyomi is actually labelled as a ninjutsu. This said, it is a genjutsu combined with a ninjutsu.

In short, I believe that his MS ability is the power to manipulate space and time of his own jutsu. That being a genjutsu or a ninjutsu doesn't matter. So he uses a ninjutsu to manipulate his genjutsu.
Sasuke obviously has used a genjutsu with his right eye that was a MS technique, since it dealt damage to his right eye (in his fight with Bee). He later used the same eye to stop amaterasu. Also he used that jutsu to manipulate amaterasu and form, what is known as blaze release. All obviously MS abilities. But having more than one MS ability in one eye doesn't really fit my idea of the sharingan. So I think all of them is due to the same function of manipulating time and shape of the jutsu. Thus Sasuke speeds up amaterasu, and it vanishes. Why else is it said that it only burns for 7 days and nights? Well this is just a theory of mine..

#3 Well, you too. Hadn't realized it without this discussion.

 

[Thundercles]

#2 Yeah I can't really disagree with the manga xd but I do think it's a bad translation on this part. Not all genjutsu is due to yin release. But obviously yin release goes under the genjutsu genre. But this will be explained in the 4th databook. I think I will look for the viz translation on this chapter. Anyway, I didn't really notice him actually mentioning yin release, so thanks at least

Itachis Tsukuyomi is different. I have tried to explain this before in a thread, but it's quite a complex and long explanation. Also look in the 3rd databook. Tsukuyomi is actually labelled as a ninjutsu. This said, it is a genjutsu combined with a ninjutsu.

In short, I believe that his MS ability is the power to manipulate space and time of his own jutsu. That being a genjutsu or a ninjutsu doesn't matter. So he uses a ninjutsu to manipulate his genjutsu.
Sasuke obviously has used a genjutsu with his right eye that was a MS technique, since it dealt damage to his right eye (in his fight with Bee). He later used the same eye to stop amaterasu. Also he used that jutsu to manipulate amaterasu and form, what is known as blaze release. All obviously MS abilities. But having more than one MS ability in one eye doesn't really fit my idea of the sharingan. So I think all of them is due to the same function of manipulating time and shape of the jutsu. Thus Sasuke speeds up amaterasu, and it vanishes. Why else is it said that it only burns for 7 days and nights? Well this is just a theory of mine..

#3 Well, you too. Hadn't realized it without this discussion.

Yeah, it is difficult for me to find an Uzumaki that can use Genjutsu to support my opinion lol. *Stares at Naruto*

 

[NarutoIndra]

Yin is within Naruto as well, which is somewhat demonstrated in the manga.

Spoiler

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It says it's sealed by the use of shiki fujin, and it is most likely it is behind the seal and not in reaper death's belly. That's why there is two seals on Naruto's stomach, to be exact two four symbol seals, which form the eight triagrams seal. Minato knew what he was doing, so he would definitely not take away the yin from 9 tails. The key which was used was was supposed to open the seal slightly, to let some of yin out; which Kurama is in control of. I also can provide some evidence from your post that shows TBB isn't using Naruto's chakra. There is no way that when Kurama was creating the TBB against the other 5 bijuu's or the multi-tbb against the juubi that naruto had enough yin to make a 2:8 with Kurama's yang whether he is an uzumaki or a senju, no shinobi can do that.

 

[thegame]

Yin is within Naruto as well, which is somewhat demonstrated in the manga.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

It says it's sealed by the use of shiki fujin, and it is most likely it is behind the seal and not in reaper death's belly. That's why there is two seals on Naruto's stomach, to be exact two four symbol seals, which form the eight triagrams seal. Minato knew what he was doing, so he would definitely not take away the yin from 9 tails. The key which was used was was supposed to open the seal slightly, to let some of yin out; which Kurama is in control of. I also can provide some evidence from your post that shows TBB isn't using Naruto's chakra. There is no way that when Kurama was creating the TBB against the other 5 bijuu's or the multi-tbb against the juubi that naruto had enough yin to make a 2:8 with Kurama's yang whether he is an uzumaki or a senju, no shinobi can do that.

About the yin part. Minato sealed inside himself. Then he sealed some of his own chakra inside Naruto, as a "shield" to prevent the Kuybi from taking over, but we can't tell if any of the kuybis yin chakra was part of this. I doubt it though. And also that chakra has already been used up. So there is no more yin chakra with Naruto, if there ever was any.

Yeah, it is difficult for me to find an Uzumaki that can use Genjutsu to support my opinion lol. *Stares at Naruto*

Hehe, yes I thought so too.

 

[thegame]

Lol thought a bit about, henge no jutsu is probably Narutos closest answer to being yin release xd

Anyway, in general it doesn't seem like any Uzumaki is composed of yin release. I mean Nagato had a pretty strong life force for using rinnengan so long. Karin is a sensory type, and senses the spiritual energy from others. Kushina seemed to have a strong will. Mito had the same forehead seal as Tsunade. Every case seems to point towards yang release.

Fuinjutsu are also pretty physical stuff, though it is not specified to any yin or yang IMO. Fuinjutsu is also quite physical, and is the 3rd classification for jutsu. Ninjutsu (yang), genjutsu (yin), but what is Fuinjutsu then? A combination? Doubtful, but not unlikely. If the so6p was an Uzumaki, it is possible. But he probably gained yin and yang release from the Juubi. So it's quite hard to decipher anythings at the moment.

 

[Thundercles]

About the yin part. Minato sealed inside himself. Then he sealed some of his own chakra inside Naruto, as a "shield" to prevent the Kuybi from taking over, but we can't tell if any of the kuybis yin chakra was part of this. I doubt it though. And also that chakra has already been used up. So there is no more yin chakra with Naruto, if there ever was any.

Hehe, yes I thought so too.

Well, Jiraiya did say it was Yin.

 

[Thundercles]

Lol thought a bit about, henge no jutsu is probably Narutos closest answer to being yin release xd

Anyway, in general it doesn't seem like any Uzumaki is composed of yin release. I mean Nagato had a pretty strong life force for using rinnengan so long. Karin is a sensory type, and senses the spiritual energy from others. Kushina seemed to have a strong will. Mito had the same forehead seal as Tsunade. Every case seems to point towards yang release.

Fuinjutsu are also pretty physical stuff, though it is not specified to any yin or yang IMO. Fuinjutsu is also quite physical, and is the 3rd classification for jutsu. Ninjutsu (yang), genjutsu (yin), but what is Fuinjutsu then? A combination? Doubtful, but not unlikely. If the so6p was an Uzumaki, it is possible. But he probably gained yin and yang release from the Juubi. So it's quite hard to decipher anythings at the moment.

I think Yin and Yang are in everyone, but it varies on the amount per person.

 

[thegame]

I think Yin and Yang are in everyone, but it varies on the amount per person.

Well as I think you realized, I disagree on this part. Or it may just be it's very hard to use, and thus only a few persons know how to do it.

Anyway, already made that clear, however, my reason to write in this thread again, is that something came to mind a short time ago, while I was making another thread.

What if Minato took the yin part away, to guard Kurama from being controlled by the sharingan genjutsu again? Could there be some connection, which Minato realized, and thus he could give Naruto a way to fight sharingan users, who could enter his mind (like Sasuke did it). Perhaps it could even protect him, from having Kurama extracted by a sharingan user, since this was all Minato knew about at the time. Some way to protect him against Madara.

This probably wouldn't be answered till the Naruto vs Sasuke fight though, but it is weird that he didn't show Madara or Obito entering Narutos mind. So it's proably nothing, lol.

 

[Thundercles]

Well as I think you realized, I disagree on this part. Or it may just be it's very hard to use, and thus only a few persons know how to do it.

Anyway, already made that clear, however, my reason to write in this thread again, is that something came to mind a short time ago, while I was making another thread.

What if Minato took the yin part away, to guard Kurama from being controlled by the sharingan genjutsu again? Could there be some connection, which Minato realized, and thus he could give Naruto a way to fight sharingan users, who could enter his mind (like Sasuke did it). Perhaps it could even protect him, from having Kurama extracted by a sharingan user, since this was all Minato knew about at the time. Some way to protect him against Madara.

This probably wouldn't be answered till the Naruto vs Sasuke fight though, but it is weird that he didn't show Madara or Obito entering Narutos mind. So it's proably nothing, lol.

Hmm that is a very good point. I didnt think of that.