The real truth about the Sage's Sons and the 6 Paths! (Logic)

[Owarij]

Nice read, very plausible theory... I have thought about the sage's parents being uzumaki in the past

 

[Ndlovu]

Hmm.. 1st.. I would like to commend you on the time and effort you put into this theory.. Its no easy feat.. 2nd will take it from the bothers and the mix up between the two.. Which was quite interesting I might add.. It lead me to ask myself the question then.. What about.. The will of fire..? That has been passed down from generations.. Apparently Hashirama had it, Hiruzen did and now Naruto add Konohamru.. Sarutobi clan is not what I am getting at.. Just trying to get the connections right... Because if Senju was might and Uchiha was love. Then it would mean the will of fire is not a pure thing..? But many cases shows that it is a selfless thing.. Just kind of throwing some thoughts on this theory and stirring up the pot if you know what I mean... 3rd.. The theory of the 6 children.. It would explain alot.. I figure the body inheritance: Senju, Uzumaki and I suppose.. Ginkaku and Kinkaku's clan? The eyes.. Uchiha , Hyuuga the other I have no idea on..? What traits would they have..? This getting a bit too long .. Will cut it short.. Seriously nice thread and it was creativity mixed with logic.. There are quite a few gaps but that is why it is a theory.. Plus the story needs to play out.. Was worth reading.. Thanks.. What are the other gaping questions you still have going on in your mind..?

 

[ROSH2]

The Elder and Younger brother might have been the other way around.

no manga proof

 

[~Puppet Master~]

Pretty nice theory, haven't heard something like this in a while.
But there's one thing, if you say that the sage had six sons, two of them being the Uchiha and Senju, and potentially the Hyuga and Uzumaki. But how do these sons represent the six paths? Because Kishi likes to connect everything, everything represents and symbolizes everything. There's the six paths of Buhddism that Kishi based it on, and the Uchiha and Senju have nothing to do with this...

 

[ReZ]

This is long but it's worth reading, I tried to break it as much as I could so please do not give up half way through!

So I was wondering...

What do we know for a fact that can be reliable on?

1st - The Sage had two sons.

2nd - One was born with the eyes of the sage and his powerful chakra, the Elder, the other was born with the sage's body and physical life force, the Younger.

3rd - The Elder brother gave birth to the Uchiha and their powerful chakra and Sharingan. The Younger brother gave birth to the Senju and their large amount of chakra and strong bodies.

These are facts!...

Or are they?

Let's deconstruct these facts form the bottom up, and analyse them with the info given to us by the very same person who was the source to all we know of the two brothers.

As the last is always the first let's start with the third and the second.

The Juubi and his Jinchuriki:
The Sage in order to control the Juubi had to seal the beast inside of himself, therefore becoming (supposedly as this was never actually confirmed) the very first Jinchuriki.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Later, when he was older, the sage divided the Juubi's chakra into Nine newly created forms. That little resemblance had with the Juubi. But his form was like the scan below shows:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

If we pay attention we will see that the tomoes that compose the famous Sharingans are displayed in the Juubi's eye.

So far so good, but then it get's tricky...
The Sage sealed the Juubi inside himself, and we can assume that just like the later Jinchurikis, chakra from the sealed beast must have leaked into the Sage's own chakra. Giving him physical treats of the beast. These treats are thought to have been passed down to one of his sons, hence why later on the Uchiha's ended up with a dojutso that was extremely similar to the Juubi's eye.
Yet as one son received these treats inevitably passed down by the Juubi via the Sage, the other seem to have been untouched by the Juubi's influence.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This would represent no problem unless!... Gods be good!! it was the older son that was affected and the younger that born untethered. What an odd thing to happen, did the Sage unsealed the Juubi from within himself between the birth of the two brothers? But that's impossible! He only did that when he was very old and close to his death!

The answer is simple, the so called Younger brother is actually the Elder brother! Hence why Hashirama wanted to enforce the Hidden Villages System which relayed on Power to maintain the peace, as of Madara he wants to create a world where there is no war, no suffer only love, where everybody is a winner and no one needs leaders and is free to be happy.

There was an error in the story Tobi/Obito told us, the two brothers were misplaced. Probably the Elder brother (Father to the Senju) tried to hide the truth by twisting the answers and hence taking the title of heir to the Sage of Six Paths to himself. And the Younger brother (Father to the Uchiha) was labelled as a Hater and an enemy of peace. The resemblance of his eyes with the eyes of the Juubi probably took a big role on making the people believing the Elder brother, as they maybe still remember the sight of the Juubi and mistrusted the eyes of the Younger brother.

Now with that clear let's move on to the final and first point.

We know that this Younger and Elder brother were sons of the Sage, but why do we say they are the sons of the Sage? Why would ther only be two? In fact Tobi/Obito hints that this is not the case at all.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Here he says that the Senju and the Uchiha were once one and the same, and that the Sage was the two boodlines in one. But unlike many here in the base like to state as a dogma, Tobi/Obito does not state that Senju and Uchiha in a single blood line were all that the Sage was.

He actually implies quite otherwise that Senju and Uchiha (Elder and Younger) merely and only part of what the Sage was. The two clans are only two of the 6! Each clan a Path, the Senju and the Uchiha are two of the Paths.
Manga Proof:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This means that the Sage had more sons, sons who must have inherited some of the Sage's prodigeous powers and probably some of the Juubi's too. Sons that could have had treats from both the Elder and Younger or even different ones. One of these 6 sons must have been the Father (or Mother) to the Uzumaki.

With the life force of the Senju and the ability to control the Rinnegan, it's a mix without being neither!

So this is my theory about the sons of the Sage, the 6 Paths!

Hashirama captured and divided the tailed beasts so that they can be equal in power,that shows that he wasen't a power hungry like the elder was.Instead Madara took his brothers eyes in order to be more powerful.You're theory is pretty good but tobi did not twist the story about the two sons.

 

[YowYan]

You state that Madara wanted a world where love was the sole governing agency, but to achieve that, Madara pursued what was stated in the manga page 'might'..which discredits your theory of Madara being the youngest son. Madara wanted to achieve his goal with power/force, not love.

About the s06p dividing the jyuubi in 9 beasts..I think the purpose of that was to let each tailed beast bond with his jinchuuriki so they're able to grow together with their host, making them more humane. You can see that up-close when Naruto was meeting up with several tailed beasts, they where all shocked that Naruto actually cared for their name and wanted to socialize.

 

[Sasunarufan13]

So if I understand it well, instead of only two sons, there were actually six sons, each one representing a path.

Your argumentation is actually plausible. As far as I can remember, nobody in the manga ever stated with 100% certainty that there were only two sons.
It still makes me wonder why only two sons were shown during the flashback, but it's one of the most plausible and logical theories I've encountered so far on the base with regards to this particular subject.

 

[Salad]

This is long but it's worth reading, I tried to break it as much as I could so please do not give up half way through!

So I was wondering...

What do we know for a fact that can be reliable on?

1st - The Sage had two sons.

2nd - One was born with the eyes of the sage and his powerful chakra, the Elder, the other was born with the sage's body and physical life force, the Younger.

3rd - The Elder brother gave birth to the Uchiha and their powerful chakra and Sharingan. The Younger brother gave birth to the Senju and their large amount of chakra and strong bodies.

These are facts!...

Or are they?

Let's deconstruct these facts form the bottom up, and analyse them with the info given to us by the very same person who was the source to all we know of the two brothers.

As the last is always the first let's start with the third and the second.

The Juubi and his Jinchuriki:
The Sage in order to control the Juubi had to seal the beast inside of himself, therefore becoming (supposedly as this was never actually confirmed) the very first Jinchuriki.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Later, when he was older, the sage divided the Juubi's chakra into Nine newly created forms. That little resemblance had with the Juubi. But his form was like the scan below shows:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

If we pay attention we will see that the tomoes that compose the famous Sharingans are displayed in the Juubi's eye.

So far so good, but then it get's tricky...
The Sage sealed the Juubi inside himself, and we can assume that just like the later Jinchurikis, chakra from the sealed beast must have leaked into the Sage's own chakra. Giving him physical treats of the beast. These treats are thought to have been passed down to one of his sons, hence why later on the Uchiha's ended up with a dojutso that was extremely similar to the Juubi's eye.
Yet as one son received these treats inevitably passed down by the Juubi via the Sage, the other seem to have been untouched by the Juubi's influence.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This would represent no problem unless!... Gods be good!! it was the older son that was affected and the younger that born untethered. What an odd thing to happen, did the Sage unsealed the Juubi from within himself between the birth of the two brothers? But that's impossible! He only did that when he was very old and close to his death!

The answer is simple, the so called Younger brother is actually the Elder brother! Hence why Hashirama wanted to enforce the Hidden Villages System which relayed on Power to maintain the peace, as of Madara he wants to create a world where there is no war, no suffer only love, where everybody is a winner and no one needs leaders and is free to be happy.

There was an error in the story Tobi/Obito told us, the two brothers were misplaced. Probably the Elder brother (Father to the Senju) tried to hide the truth by twisting the answers and hence taking the title of heir to the Sage of Six Paths to himself. And the Younger brother (Father to the Uchiha) was labelled as a Hater and an enemy of peace. The resemblance of his eyes with the eyes of the Juubi probably took a big role on making the people believing the Elder brother, as they maybe still remember the sight of the Juubi and mistrusted the eyes of the Younger brother.

Now with that clear let's move on to the final and first point.

We know that this Younger and Elder brother were sons of the Sage, but why do we say they are the sons of the Sage? Why would ther only be two? In fact Tobi/Obito hints that this is not the case at all.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Here he says that the Senju and the Uchiha were once one and the same, and that the Sage was the two boodlines in one. But unlike many here in the base like to state as a dogma, Tobi/Obito does not state that Senju and Uchiha in a single blood line were all that the Sage was.

He actually implies quite otherwise that Senju and Uchiha (Elder and Younger) merely and only part of what the Sage was. The two clans are only two of the 6! Each clan a Path, the Senju and the Uchiha are two of the Paths.
Manga Proof:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This means that the Sage had more sons, sons who must have inherited some of the Sage's prodigeous powers and probably some of the Juubi's too. Sons that could have had treats from both the Elder and Younger or even different ones. One of these 6 sons must have been the Father (or Mother) to the Uzumaki.

With the life force of the Senju and the ability to control the Rinnegan, it's a mix without being neither!

So this is my theory about the sons of the Sage, the 6 Paths!

Very informative and a great theory imo. I think Naruto will somehow unlock sage's powers and seal the juubi

 

[Amaterasuice]

Nice theory.

Here's what the six clans might be, if your theory is true:

Uchiha, Senju, Uzumaki, Hyuuga (duh choices)

Other:
Haruno (Kishi might pull that one lol)
Namikaze (be kind of cool I guess)
Jugo's clan

But I think it's Kimimaro's clan: as he has a strong body, and Kind of uses a somehwat similar jutsu to the asura path

 

[ImNoOne]

I'll link you to a good theory if you wish

Please do , and thanks!

I think the switched sons idea is a little bizarre honestly and the 6 in one is not entirely accurate either in my opinion.

Sage is made up of

Rinnegan(eyes)- wood release(body)- Sacred tools- Senjutsu-Juubi- and immense chakra

he gaves his eyes to one son, body to the other. Scattered his sacred tools, sealed the juubi, passed on senjutsu to his summons (frogs, slugs, snakes) and the immense chakra he split between his sons.

That's an over simplistic approach to the Sage of Six Paths character, he was much, much more than that. Simplifying the Sage that much is the same as saying Naruto character is simply the Jinchuriki of Kurama and the son of the 4th Hokage, while he is obviously much more than that.

Naruto is also the personification of friendship, loyalty and perseverance!

Describing the Sage you have to analyse what he was beyond what was obvious.

-He was a preacher who, like all who preachers, believe in education of the minds. A teacher per se! One who believed that a well structured and knowledge person is a better person. Which in itself might be a path, the Path of Logic where Education and Logic are the keys to Peace. Weighting the pros and cons of war a Logical and Educated person will see that Peace is the best way and not war.

-He had also the instinct of service, altruistic and selfless. He could have lived his life in peace and safe, taken from all his power he surely was above danger had he chosen to. Yet not only he saved the world from the Juubi, he made his life quest to preach peace and Ninjutso to the people of the world in order to bring peace to the world. That in itself might also be a Path, the path of Selfness and Sacrifice.

-He was also a studious and searcher for Knowlage and understanding believing that understanding and knowledge of all that concerned chakra and Ninjutso were important pieces for Peace. This might also be one Path, the Path of Knowledge and Understanding. You'll find it curious to find that the 3rd Hokage from the Sarutobi Clan followed this Path, becoming the God of Shinobi and the Teacher.

The information about the Sage is little but we could derive even more Paths, like for example forgiveness and faith as he gave the Juubi a second chance when he devided it's chakra and created the 9 bijuus...

I find it interesting what you said that the clans represent the paths and the uchiha and senju are only two of the six. But if this is true surely they would e of been introduced by now.plus if they were real they probably were really strong,but as a clan of the sage of six paths they should have atleast one famous ninja that has strength comparable to hashi and madara.over good theory + rep

Kishi had already revealed Tobi's true identity and yet we still didn't think it was Obito. The plot is strong and there is much to link as it is. Who are we to say that these paths haven't been introduced yet?

no manga proof

No, that one was proven by logic, but it's not the focus point of the theory, so if you don't agree with my logic you may disregard it.

Pretty nice theory, haven't heard something like this in a while.
But there's one thing, if you say that the sage had six sons, two of them being the Uchiha and Senju, and potentially the Hyuga and Uzumaki. But how do these sons represent the six paths? Because Kishi likes to connect everything, everything represents and symbolizes everything. There's the six paths of Buhddism that Kishi based it on, and the Uchiha and Senju have nothing to do with this...

I explained this above. Love and Power are not the only answers possible to achieve Peace.

Hashirama captured and divided the tailed beasts so that they can be equal in power,that shows that he wasen't a power hungry like the elder was.Instead Madara took his brothers eyes in order to be more powerful.You're theory is pretty good but tobi did not twist the story about the two sons.

Hashirama captured and divided the tailed beasts in order to maintain the balance of Power! It's still an answer based on power rather than on love.

 

[TheCCV]

It's possible.

 

[Igneel]

Nice theory,I made one similar to this^^
Good job ^_^

 

[Meowazziel]

Well lets start with complimenting the effort you have put in your thread.
Thanks, like and rep .

Scans:
I thought there have been different scanlations about this ''2 of the six paths are now one being'' thing.
I thought it said something like ''i am the second comming of rikudo'' and that Obito called nagato the third comming rikudo. This was because of having Uchiha + Senju power(making someone a rikudo).
But seeing that those scanlations seems to have turned into these ones everywhere, ill conclude that the pages you provided, are the correct ones.

Paths:
It would be interesting for sure, if there are 6 paths and the Senju and Uchiha were 2 of the 6.
I was under the impression that the 6 paths were those buddhist paths. Asura realm, human ghost realm, animal realm etc. However maybe this is not correct or maybe there are different 6 paths (senju uchiha etc.). That would be a lot more interesting than it being those boring buddhist baths imo .

Which are the six paths? Which one do you think?
Senju clan, Uchiha clan, Uzumaki clan, Hyuuga clan, Kaguya (Kimimaro) clan and Juugo clan?
It would only leave the ''how did some shinobi manage to use elemental kekkei genkai, without being related to the sage'' part, but that might be a (distant) senju trait, and dormant in many (the ability to combine two elements into a new one). We know little about the senju and their powers after all (or where they went to at all, cause, where the fuk are they xd). This could mean that people like Muu, Onoki, Mei, Darui and some others, are related to the sage and/or Juubi as well.

So the Juubi might have Byakugan, Kaguya bone jutsus as well.
The Juugo clan ability to absorb nature energy and Kurama's comments about the Juubi and Nature energy are fitting as well.

I agree fully with stuff like the younger son having inherited Mokuton AND mokuton being part of the Juubi's power. The whole Juubi seems to be from wood and zetsu goo like material after all.
Uchiha having inherited the Juubi's dojutsu is clear.

I never thought about the younger son, having been the older and the older the younger.
Its an interesting thought.
The Senju their way of ruling is for quite a large bit based on power indeed (whole ninja village system, bijou power balance etc.), but that would make the whole will of fire a fat lie right? That seems to be pushing it a bit.
The uchiha and love, i dunno. Sasuke has always searched for power and he tryed to break all bonds of love.
If you want to see the senju as the ones that rule with love, you can (dependable on from which perspective you look) and if you wan to see the uchiha to be the ones that rule with power you can as well and the other way around for both.
I am not sure about this part.

Sage is?
So from where do you believe the sage came from?
From the Uzumaki clan? From some unknown group/clan?
A god like figure before he sealed the Juubi inside him?
Something else?

 

[BlkMagk]

Great theory man

Plausibility level=Over 9000

 

[ImNoOne]

You state that Madara wanted a world where love was the sole governing agency, but to achieve that, Madara pursued what was stated in the manga page 'might'..which discredits your theory of Madara being the youngest son. Madara wanted to achieve his goal with power/force, not love.

About the s06p dividing the jyuubi in 9 beasts..I think the purpose of that was to let each tailed beast bond with his jinchuuriki so they're able to grow together with their host, making them more humane. You can see that up-close when Naruto was meeting up with several tailed beasts, they where all shocked that Naruto actually cared for their name and wanted to socialize.

The question the Sage asked was what was the key for world peace. Madara is searching for Power in order to provide Love as the tool for world peace. For himself he sicks power but for the world he sicks love as the key to peace.

As for Hashirama, his actions were in order to maintain the balance of power. He scattered the tailed beasts to give the villages a balance of power. That is sicking Peace via Power!! Not love. In fact his actions gave birth to wars and not peace. Villages attacking each other for the Bijuus and eventually lead to two Great Ninja Wars.
Rendering the action of giving out the Bijuus to other villages as an act of love is pure madness.

So if I understand it well, instead of only two sons, there were actually six sons, each one representing a path.

Your argumentation is actually plausible. As far as I can remember, nobody in the manga ever stated with 100% certainty that there were only two sons.
It still makes me wonder why only two sons were shown during the flashback, but it's one of the most plausible and logical theories I've encountered so far on the base with regards to this particular subject.

The reason Tobi didn't speak about the other paths was simply because that would have not helped him on planting in Naruto's mind that the conflict with Sasuke was inevitable.

Tobi wanted Naruto and Sasuke to believe that killing eachother is an inevitable outcome. Adding extra points of view would have been counter producing.

 

[Henchman24]

I really enjoyed this theory. Very well thought out and imaginative. + to you.

 

[Griffith]

Much respect on the thread. rep. The only thing i disagree with is the notion that the elder son is actually the younger son...maybe i misread it.. but among the points that u made the one that i feel is the most CRUCIAL to the plotline of future arcs, and that is the Six Paths manifested in people (such as Madara and Hashirama) and also this:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Senju, Uchiha, Uzumaki, Hyuuga are the prime candidates for these six paths manifestations. I made a post a few days ago and one of the tenets it contains is the possibility of Rikudou Sennins wife being Hyuuga.

You must be registered for see links

I feel as if the reason why Orochimaru is the ultimate villain in the series is because the intel he has regarding these six paths and this is the reason why he constructed such extensive research and held so many subjects hostage.

Great theory.

 

[uzimaki tosin]

+ rep for effort, but I lost interest when it said the Senju relied on power and the Uchiha believed in love:|

the uchicha clan has been anythin but peaceful. this is shown by the killings among the uchiha clan by madara and his younger brother.

You must be registered for see links

 

[Narutohokage7]

Nice theory, great ideas.

 

[Baka Sennin]

interesting theory, but the tobi part is based off a mistranslation... the correct translation is that madara is the second sage of the six paths, and nagato the third. referring to people who possessed both senju dna and the rinnegan