(Necro) Ending the debates. Common Knowledge 2.0

[The Necromancer]

Hmm overall you seem to bring mere facts that most know, and that are only discussed by none-knowing idiotis that use "anime filler" evidence (yeah I meet those a lot...), anyway I must point out the thing about Sasuke having Tsukuyomi.

Now I don't know, where exactly you have your translation from, and whether it is more valid than others, but I have seen some that suggest you only need either amaterasu or tsukuyomi to awaken Susanoo, but that Itachi was so skilled that he mastered both, but it depends on how you interpret it.

Also there is a certain genjutsu called "sharingan genjutsu" (if I recall correctly) in the 3rd databook. This genjutsu is labelled to be usable by both itachi and sasuke, and it is described exactly, how the effects of the genjutsu sasuke used on Killer Bee was.

However, Tsukuyomi is also in the databook, but it is only said to be usable by Itachi. Another thing is, Tsukuyomi is a combination of genjutsu and ninjutsu. Some guy once made a thread about Tsukuyomi being a space time jutsu, I honestly don't think he used this as evidence, but it had probably helped his case very much..

Nonetheless, Tsukuyomi doesn't just mean you are an expert of genjutsu. Being an expert of genjutsu means that you are extremely skilled at keeping your opponent from escaping your genjutsu. So given that Sasuke just isn't skilled at it, it explains why Danzo easily escaped Sasukes genjutsu, and we will just have to believe that the one time he used tsukuyomi, was back then, and that he just called it something else, cause it wasn't powerful enough, or he didn't understand how to compile a ninjutsu inside a genjutsu.

But as I said with my initial case, I am not sure I will deem this discussion over, as you do. Since there are several translations of the databooks (especially the 3rd one), and you can easily find some, where you can interpret it differently.


And for the case regarding Hiruzen, Kishi has said in an interview that he was the strongest along with Minato (of all hokages).

Yeah. I agree, it's a touchy subject that will probably never be settled, but I just like to think that Itachi=Genjutsu, Sasuke=Amaterasu, and Madara=Susano'o, and the fact that Itachi was introduced first means his "base" tsukuyomi wasn't named. Think about if Sasuke's MS was introduced first, we might say that the three he has are Blaze Release, Susano'o and whatever they may have named the base form of Tsukuyomi. Just my opinion.

 

[Drakengard]

I doubt it, but i don't believe he could access their powers without Sage Mode. Idk, but it doesn't seem like it would be possible to materialize clone bodies of real people out of your own body without some sort of Sage mode or something. Plus if that power was just due to Sakon and Ukon's KG, then they are the most idiotic shinobi ever because they could have been SOOOOOO OP.

Well I say that it's their technique because he pulled them out of his body but they didn't use any jutsu for offense or defense unlike the rest of them.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

"Demon twins Sakon technique*

 

[Lightbringer]

The only thing I disagree with is Kabuto losing all his abilities. Sasuke corrected Suigetsu in saying that Oro only took his chakra back and Kabuto still maintains all his abilties. We don't know the full detail of how important Oro's chakra was to becoming sage mode since Kabuto learned it on his own just like naruto and jiraiya.

It's mostly speculation and not enough info with that section.

Kabuto also says in the panel you posted "I trained myself and gained that ability" he didn't mention Oro's chakra aiding him in the whole fight with Sasuke/Itachi. He explained all his abilities and why he had them already, with Oro's I believe he said it helped him do Edo Tensei when he told Obito about Anko.

 

[The Necromancer]

Well I say that it's their technique because he pulled them out of his body but they didn't use any jutsu for offense or defense unlike the rest of them.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

"Demon twins Sakon technique*

True. And it does look like Sakon's face turns into Jirobo's. But it looks like something out of Orochimaru's repertoire, used in conjunction with Sage Mode. It's a mystery and will never have a definite answer, but as you know, Naruto's Rasenshuriken was impossible to use as a thrown weapon without Sage Mode chakra encasing it, maybe the same sort of thing applies here. :shrug:

 

[thegame]

Yeah. I agree, it's a touchy subject that will probably never be settled, but I just like to think that Itachi=Genjutsu, Sasuke=Amaterasu, and Madara=Susano'o, and the fact that Itachi was introduced first means his "base" tsukuyomi wasn't named. Think about if Sasuke's MS was introduced first, we might say that the three he has are Blaze Release, Susano'o and whatever they may have named the base form of Tsukuyomi. Just my opinion.

That is just very weird, because Kishi has used some ancient Japanese mythology to name all 3 of them, amaterasu, tsukuyomi and susanoo, even itachis susanoo weapons come from this mythology, so it wouldn't make much sense to suddenly change the names. Anyway it's not something I dwell much with, cause it doesn't bother me. IMO Sasuke does not have "Tsukuyomi" like Itachi had it, but he has whatever he needs to use Susanoo, and whether it's just a very weak tuskuyomi or not, well that doesn't bother me, I'd rather discuss something else, so point of your thread is still great

 

[The Necromancer]

That is just very weird, because Kishi has used some ancient Japanese mythology to name all 3 of them, amaterasu, tsukuyomi and susanoo, even itachis susanoo weapons come from this mythology, so it wouldn't make much sense to suddenly change the names. Anyway it's not something I dwell much with, cause it doesn't bother me. IMO Sasuke does not have "Tsukuyomi" like Itachi had it, but he has whatever he needs to use Susanoo, and whether it's just a very weak tuskuyomi or not, well that doesn't bother me, I'd rather discuss something else, so point of your thread is still great

Thanks man!

 

[Lana Del Taka]

I read all the points, Awesome thread!

 

[~Sovereign~]

good thread overall

 

[The Necromancer]

good thread overall

Thanks, man.

 

[Arcaneos510X]

Hahaha. Ok. Then, thank you!



I doubt it, but i don't believe he could access their powers without Sage Mode. Idk, but it doesn't seem like it would be possible to materialize clone bodies of real people out of your own body without some sort of Sage mode or something. Plus if that power was just due to Sakon and Ukon's KG, then they are the most idiotic shinobi ever because they could have been SOOOOOO OP.

your welcome !

 

[phantomlord22]

I agree all
but Not #3

 

[Sasuke2]

Everything except Kabuto losing abilities/powers is more or less correct, finally a good thread on this forums.