100% proof(manga pages) edo hashirama was complete and perfect

[kakashi owns all]

i know i just felt like saying it maybe i should have said so does this mean hiruzen can ko 8 gates lee or Gai?

no, naruto is not dragon ball z where who ever makes the bigger blast wins, people have weekness and streaths, ex kakashi and the 3rd have a advatige in a nin battle. The 3rd may be week vs super speed and give gai the edge ect A>B>C does not work in naruto

 

[Punk Hazard]

These are solid facts(manga>your opinion) although I actually chuckled when you said orochimaru restricted them from using all their techniques. Please show me the manga pages lol where it says that he restricted their abilities lololol

Your final point of Hiruzen>Hashirama isn't a solid fact, it's a theory.

And according to Kabuto, Orochimaru completely binded them, since Oro doesn't know all their moves, he couldn't make them use them.

Not every single thing comes from the manga, you have to put together info and use logic and common sense. If you expect everything to just outrightly be there, you don't belong in a Naruto discussion.

 

[Unbiased]

no, naruto is not dragon ball z where who ever makes the bigger blast wins, people have weekness and streaths, ex kakashi and the 3rd have a advatige in a nin battle. The 3rd may be week vs super speed and give gai the edge ect A>B>C does not work in naruto

That is very plausible. For example Gai could pose a threat and even any of the 5 kages and Non edo madara at the cost of his life. Its plausible however not factual since it never happened.

 

[Unbiased]

Your final point of Hiruzen>Hashirama isn't a solid fact, it's a theory.

And according to Kabuto, Orochimaru completely binded them, since Oro doesn't all their moves, he couldn't make them use them.

Not every single thing comes from the manga, you have to put together info and use logic and common sense. If you expect everything to just outrightly be there, you don't belong in a Naruto discussion.

Where does it say that the user needs to know all their moves? It clearly states the Edo Tensei can use all their moves not "the user needs to know their moves". I'm sure Kabuto never learned shinra tensei or chibaku tensei lol. Also Hiruzen > Hashirama is a fact since he sealed them and thus beat them. Its in the manga.

 

[kakashi owns all]

Your final point of Hiruzen>Hashirama isn't a solid fact, it's a theory.

And according to Kabuto, Orochimaru completely binded them, since Oro doesn't all their moves, he couldn't make them use them.

Not every single thing comes from the manga, you have to put together info and use logic and common sense. If you expect everything to just outrightly be there, you don't belong in a Naruto discussion.

not really last time a read the manga the 3rd sealed the 1st, nagato was also binded and he was op as ever. also we can interpreat things but the things the manga does state > that we we come up with, with out logic

 

[Summer]

Pretty sure it is called manga writer law when the writer fully contradicts himself and we smack our heads.

 

[Unbiased]

Pretty sure it is called manga writer law when the writer fully contradicts himself and we smack our heads.

Where is the contradiction? I do agree with you that kishi is a very inconsistent writer but I don't see any inconsistencies in this part.

 

[kakashi owns all]

Pretty sure it is called manga writer law when the writer fully contradicts himself and we smack our heads.

can u be more specific

 

[Retsu]

Kishi stated through kakashi that the sharingan came from byakugan in part 1, yet uchiha are lauded as the elder sons descendants in part 2, kishi contradicts himself constantly, and small parts of part 1 get retconned without warning. He was not thinking of how strong he'd have to make hashirama when he made statements about hiruzen, but hiruzen has been left in the dust like byakugan, no one refers to his strength at all.

 

[ROSH2]

Hiruzen (battle experience+will of fire) > 1 hokage

 

[Unbiased]

Kishi stated through kakashi that the sharingan came from byakugan in part 1, yet uchiha are lauded as the elder sons descendants in part 2, kishi contradicts himself constantly, and small parts of part 1 get retconned without warning. He was not thinking of how strong he'd have to make hashirama when he made statements about hiruzen, but hiruzen has been left in the dust like byakugan, no one refers to his strength at all.

I agree with you 100%. What people don't understand is that anything that hypes up hashirama only makes hiruzen look better. Hashirama could create pollen flowers, regenerate, and control multiple bijuu but was beaten by an old 69 year old man with low chakra reserves. Also something to consider is that hiruzen never had a skill that set him apart, he used the main shinobi aspects of deception, taijutsu, ninjutsu, smelling ect to beat his opponents. He did have a dangerous fire style attack but that's nothing to write home about.

 

[Retsu]

I agree with you 100%. What people don't understand is that anything that hypes up hashirama only makes hiruzen look better. Hashirama could create pollen flowers, regenerate, and control multiple bijuu but was beaten by an old 69 year old man with low chakra reserves. Also something to consider is that hiruzen never had a skill that set him apart, he used the main shinobi aspects of deception, taijutsu, ninjutsu, smelling ect to beat his opponents. He did have a dangerous fire style attack but that's nothing to write home about.

I think kishi in the beginning intended for his story to be more flexible than it is, but after part 2, it was all senju dna and EMS, but I do think he wanted ppl other than senju and Uchiha to have bigger parts in the story, like the hyuuga and such, plot was warped possibly due to time constraints though.

 

[Unbiased]

I think kishi in the beginning intended for his story to be more flexible than it is, but after part 2, it was all senju dna and EMS, but I do think he wanted ppl other than senju and Uchiha to have bigger parts in the story, like the hyuuga and such, plot was warped possibly due to time constraints though.

I agree, he dug himself in a hole and there is not many ways out. He does have saving grace by having notions like like hard work will beat a true genius so that could be another thing he was pulling off as well but we all missed it since naruto hasn't really had applied hard training to anything and succeeded since rasen shurriken. TBB doesn't count since Kurama was needed and naruto alone could not do it.

 

[Retsu]

I agree, he dug himself in a hole and there is not many ways out. He does have saving grace by having notions like like hard work will beat a true genius so that could be another thing he was pulling off as well but we all missed it since naruto hasn't really had applied hard training to anything and succeeded since rasen shurriken. TBB doesn't count since Kurama was needed and naruto alone could not do it.

I read somewhere around a year ago that kishi said he's tired of naruto and wants to work on other projects. it only makes sense that he's rushing the plot along now.

 

[Unbiased]

I read somewhere around a year ago that kishi said he's tired of naruto and wants to work on other projects. it only makes sense that he's rushing the plot along now.

I've heard that rumor circulate around the base as well. Makes sense as the inconsistencies are ridiculous in terms of Obito, the databooks, and the hidden mist.

 

[cptenn94]

i didnt read much just skimmed and the thread was as i thought....if you are simply stateing that hashi and tobirama were 100% perfect complete edos you are right and wrong....oro is supposed to have perfected edo tensei beyond tobirama, and make it nearly perfect, while kabuto is said to have taken oros edo tensei and make it more perfect.

So tobiramas edo tensei<oros edo tensei<kabutos edo tensei

tobiramas i think was laking perfection and completeness, oros was complete , and kabutos was perfect and complete.

edo hashi had full edo capabilities such as infinite chakra , regenerative abilities and im sure was full strength.....however knowing this i say

.so i say that oro was simply toying with hiruzen (and that is why we didnt see hashi or tobi fight all out)
so hiruzen was down power wise and with oro toying with hiruzen the edo kages were down power wise....

 

[Unbiased]

i didnt read much just skimmed and the thread was as i thought....if you are simply stateing that hashi and tobirama were 100% perfect complete edos you are right and wrong....oro is supposed to have perfected edo tensei beyond tobirama, and make it nearly perfect, while kabuto is said to have taken oros edo tensei and make it more perfect.

So tobiramas edo tensei<oros edo tensei<kabutos edo tensei

tobiramas i think was laking perfection and completeness, oros was complete , and kabutos was perfect and complete.

edo hashi had full edo capabilities such as infinite chakra , regenerative abilities and im sure was full strength.....however knowing this i say

.so i say that oro was simply toying with hiruzen (and that is why we didnt see hashi or tobi fight all out)
so hiruzen was down power wise and with oro toying with hiruzen the edo kages were down power wise....

Kabuto clearly states orochimaru perfected the jutsu. It also states the revived can use any of their original jutsu's. Once something is perfect is cannot be taken above that state of perfection.

 

[dirklyn]

Its whatever mehn, Shodai suck without his scrolls

 

[Expulso]

Kishi changed his mind midway through the manga. Hashirama is obviously the strongest Hokage..

 

[Unbiased]

Kishi changed his mind midway through the manga. Hashirama is obviously the strongest Hokage..

Nope he didn't explicitly rebuke his statement in stating that hiruzen was. Nor has he said anything about hashirama being inferior when he fought hiruzen. Manga facts/databooks > all opinions that we come up with no matter how illogical it may seem.