This is not a personal attack at you, but at your logic. Puking logic is not even an attempt at argumentation, what are you getting at with it? 5 posts forward, I am still quite lost.
Okay, let's see if I can make my statement clear enough for you:
Sasuke was unimpressive in the fight against Orochimaru. He was initially effortlessly incapacitated and though he displayed sound judgement in wanting to escape a superior opponent he had no idea how to go through with that when his ploy with the scrolls failed. He was able to beat a single summon of little consequence (and displayed less than stellar situational awareness in the process) and dodge some projectiles, but that is literally everything he accomplished against Orochimaru's far from serious attacks.
Naruto displayed both a better understanding of the situation (that there was no guarantee Orochimaru would let them go even if they gave him the scroll) and better combat abilities (fending off a GIANT summon even after Orochimaru gave it permission to eat him, and even assisted it in combat with a wind tech) before being taken out by Orochi's tounge/seal combo. During this engagement Sasuke is either still so fearful that he won't move to assist his teammate, or makes the poor strategic decision of waiting to begin fighting only AFTER Naruto is taken out.
It seems more likely that it's purely fear which keeps him rooted, as it takes a motivational speech from Sakura of all people before he begins moving again. Once he's out he fights well enough, for a genin, but all he accomplishes is baring a fraction of Oro's face with no other noticeable effect.
Stop assuming things, please, no one is attacking you. So he exhausted all his resources and yet, Sasuke was a second grade vessel? Thank you for proving my point, if nothing else. The rest of the tell-tale doesn't matter and is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
You are, however, denying my reasoning through nothing but insisting my logic is poor.
Sasuke posesses naturally awakened Sharingan. There is literally no other bloodline limit in the world that is more compatible with Orochimaru's single greatest desire: To master ninjutsu totally. Even the Rinnegan (which Oro knows little if anything about) is less effective in the sheer volume of ninjutsu it naturally picks up. Sasuke is the ONLY option. No matter how capable he might or might not be, the simple fact that he has awakened the Sharingan makes him INVALUABLE to Orochimaru.
My assertion that he is a second-rate vessel has to do with Orochimaru picking him only after selecting (at least) two other, more powerful potential candidates. He requires a vast amount of grooming before he is powerful enough to be a fitting vessel.
Now, Naruto shows more potential (at least in pure power growth) than Sasuke pre-Timeskip. He nearly matches Sasuke in their traditional jutsu-clash even after taking a Chidori to the chest, while using either one or two tails, I can't remember. In any case that leaves at least seven more tails of demonic chakra, an insane amount of power. Naruto was more capable than Sasuke both in the Forest of Death (which Orochimaru witnessed) and against Gaara (which he didn't, but as it was a large-scale engagement in the middle of Oro's invasion it would be strange to think he didn't know the results of it), why didn't Orochimaru pick Naruto?
Naruto is both less controllable, more risky and less compatible with Oro's ultimate goal.
Less controllable through the risky buisness of applying yet another seal to a Jinchuuriki's body (wouldn't want to unleash the Kyuubi), but also because he is far harder to manipulate than our dear Uchiha.
More risky through the possibility of Kyuubi tearing itself free, but also the amount of power available to Naruto and him alone should he and Kurama reach any kind of accord. It wouldn't do for the vessel to become
too powerful, so again Sasuke is a better choice.
He is less compatible with Orochimaru's ultimate goal because he can't automatically process and store ninjutsu information. The Sharingan, again, is the
perfect Kekkei Genkai for a person of Orochimaru's views.
Most of your post(s) is(are) made up of prominent 'it seems so', 'my best guess is', 'it doesn't quite mean that' lines. This isn't putting more credibility on your points, it only degrades your logic. More Chakra concentration is not related to better chakra control at all, but better control over the technique itself and advancing it up a notch. Several ninjas have shown this feat, yet the manga still follows those same rules for effective chakra control resulting it an effective usage of the said technique. Kakashi holding it out longer and taking out a few clones is not a feat, in fact it looks quite pathetic compared to Gaara's absolute defense, which was quite raved through out the manga back in those days.
Using more moderate language shouldn't in any way diminish my credibility. Continually stating things that leave no room for doubt, yet are demonstratably wrong is a far worse path. Using assertions such as 'this is how it is', 'it's obviously like this' and 'you are wrong' aren't superior debating tactics if they are ever discovered not to be the case.
Being able to concentrate more chakra in a technique without anything going wrong can't NOT be related to chakra control. Remember Naruto's third lesson in Rasengan training? Sasuke burning his own hand while trying to use the Chidori on his brother demontrates either poor control (not controlling the direction of the power properly) or poor judgement (why on earth would he need more chakra to pierce Itachi than to pierce both Gaara's fabled absolute defense AND the boy himself), or possibly both.
You are repeatedly ignoring all those basic links I posted on Chakra and Stamina usage and are deliberately calling me out on the silly notion that I am in some sort of humble denial. Perhaps you should kindly point this arrow at yourself, as all of your posts have no links to back up any of your points about Kakashi's chidori being superior, his speed being a general factor in his jounin rank - or it being significantly more than Sasuke's - or his rank problem which is quite the lark by the way, as Itachi was never a jounin and yet look at his impressive feats. He put Kakashi, Kuranei, and Asuma to shame, and yet, all of them were jounins at that point. 13 years after that fateful day when he got his precious eyeball poked at, he got beaten so badly along with his posse that I laughed. Where does that lead you to in that whole 'rank' debate? No where, I suppose.
The manga is full to bursting of people praising Sasuke's performance in almost everything he even tries. The same applies to Itachi. This is a concious choice by the author to elaborate on exactly what can be expected of people of their age, and in Sasuke's case to set him up as a decent antagonist for Naruto (in Itachi's case as a decent antagonist for anyone at all). Just because the author moved away from this style when he'd established what most people's levels of ability were to a reasonable degree doesn't mean a genius introduced after this style of exposition was toned down is in any way inferior (especially not if their opponents are mostly superior to anything introduced as antagonists throughout part 1).
If Kakashi Gaiden (which in addition to Obito Gaiden [not a good source] are the only sources we have on kid Kakashi's level of ability) was set earlier in the manga, we could expect thought-bubbles of the 'This kid! What is he?', 'Is this the power of the Hatake clan?' and 'His speed! Impossible!' variety.
There it's again, your guess work. Completely and on purpose ignoring the full elaboration of the said comment by Gai, and picking your side of the logic to win an argument. Common sense most certainly is useful; we should all fully utilize it.
Explaining how some of the character's assertions may not be
completely impartial
at all times shouldn't be considered logic-pickery. These characters
are (supposed to represent) people too, not impartial skill analyzing machines.
Was it too subtle for anyone here?
Obviously.
Now, to tell you the truth, I am growing tired of going around in circles. Either bring out actual manga pages to support your guess work, or don't try to be creative with it? Cool advise? This isn't me being subtle, by the way. Happy Manga digging.
Refer to Kakashi Gaiden as the only source available for Kakashi's abilities as a kid, refer to issue 47 and beyond for Sasuke's performance against Orochimaru.
I feel I have to explain something. There is just not much material available to demonstrate kid Kakashi's capabilities, so unlike Sasuke's case it just isn't a reasonable thing to do to dig around for clues. However we KNOW kid Kakashi can do more than is shown in his extremely brief battles, so what is a more reasonable thing to do?
Attempt to figure out what abilities and ability levels he lies at?
Or restrict him to exclusively use the four things he has proven to use in the manga: Fists, shruiken, sword and Chidori?
