1: The puke comment is a logic winner. Great job for bringing it up over and over again. It puts a lot of weight on your logic.
Personal insults also work pretty well, as you've obviously discovered. The reason I brought it up is to illustrate how Sasuke's performance against Orochimaru was quite simply poor, but you continue to deny it without adequate reasons.
2: Your opinions? In all manga progression since the point Orochimaru set his sights on Sasuke, it's never mentioned that he was a second rate Vessel. Second best choice after Itachi? Yes. But after seeing Sasuke's progress, I'm pretty sure he was fully content with his choice, as he was literally delirious for his body alone. Your argument of second-rate vessel holds no weight here at all as the manga doesn't support this argument.
Sasuke was Orochimaru's third choice for a subject. Sasuke was the only available natural Sharingan owner left in the world, and the sharingan as a bloodline ties in neatly with Orochimaru's proclaimed life ambition: To master every ninjutsu in the world. To think Sasuke was picked purely or even mostly on the basis of his potential as a shinobi is naive.
Just because something isn't directly stated in the manga doesn't mean it isn't true if there is supporting evidence.
Intent to kill? No offense, but at least interpret the posts right. Orochimaru was going at him at 'a little or some' intent to kill as he desired to measure his worth. Had Sasuke died, do you think Orochimaru would've cared? The man was testing him to be his future body, and yet according to you, that puke point and humour is far more interesting and compelling logic.
No offense is an interesting phrase, because it is invariably followed by something offensive. Personal insults again. Humor isn't a bad thing even in a serious text, as it in general makes it more readable, as long as it isn't completely off-topic and doesn't detract from the main point.
Orochimaru would definitely bemoan the loss of the Sharingan. He was willing to sacrifice 4 capable soldiers (instrumental in the killing of Hiruzen Sarutobi) all of whom had learnt one of the more powerful barrier techs in the series, soldiers he apparently was unable to replace even in two years. But that's the least of it.
He was willing to reveal his current location (if an Inuzuka or Kakashi himself had followed Sasuke his base would have been wide open for a Konoha attack), a rough estimate of his resources (as the leader of Hidden Sound) and basically offer an invite for Konoha to attack him. Even for Orochimaru, that is a serious risk. Imagine if say Shizune had been dispatched alongside Kakashi for the Naruto retrieval. She heals Naruto, Kakashi marks the base, Kakashi informs the council, council summons Jiraiya, Tsunade, all available ANBU and Jounin (and Root. Danzou does not suffer traitors, especially not those who threaten Konoha and even kill his oldest "friend"). This force is sent on a lightning raid, Orochimaru is killed and the Sound dissolved, though not without losses.
This didn't happen, but Orochimaru had no way of knowing it wouldn't. Even if he was certain of his own survival, he basically risked the ENTIRETY of his operation in Rice Country to get at Sasuke.
The reason he ruthlessly used the Curse seal was to have an element of control (one he inexplicably failed to use) and not least an incentive for Sasuke to join him. It also furthered his own immortality, as recently shown.
3: Your surprise is not a factor in Manga's development. The Manga has made a big deal out of absolute defense and Sasuke breaching it alone puts his chidori's strength above Kaksshi's at that age, and that is made even more so by addition of Sharingen being his KG. Your points about adult Kakashi are of no value in this discussion. Maybe I should bring out 17 year old EMS Sasuke points here as well then, since we are steering in that direction.
Again you state that Sasuke breaking Gaara's defense makes his Chidori stronger than Kakashi's. It doesn't. It suggests it, but as we have no evidence for Kakashi's Chidori being weaker it just isn't a reasonable belief. The reason I mentioned the Raikiri and Kakuzu's defense was that you specifically asked for similar feats from Kakashi to Sasuke and Gaara's sand (it also shows the effects of Chidori-style jutsu on earth-style defenses, supporting my point about how Gaara's shield being broken wasn't a miraculous feat), and proof that his Chidori was more potent, seeing as he shortly later developed it into a more concentrated and powerful version.
Now, from Narutopedia: The Raikiri is an enhanced and concentrated form of the Chidori with the same effects and drawbacks. (...)Because the Chidori is already powerful on its own, the Lightning Cutter requires better chakra control(...)
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This proves my point about the effect of chakra control on the potency of ninjutsu, something you repeatedly denied. Kakashi maintaining Chidori for longer suggests superior chakra control, which suggests superior ninjutsu.
In addition, Sasuke has only just learned Chidori when it is first used on-panel against Gaara's shield. Something he has recently learned probably isn't an exceptionally powerful version of said move, as you keep insisting.
4: So Lee's logic is false, yet Gai's logic is correct - in your humble opinion - as the whole point of Lee's inferiority resulting him to take a risky surgery later first triggered at this point; Sasuke making it to his level in just a month, and yet it took him years to develop it? A fact he keeps repeating in various forms pointing out Sasuke's heritage and what not? Making sense again is your interpretation, as the manga started on Sasuke's speed by giving Gai's view and then elaborated on it with Lee's. But it's somehow related to common sense of interpretations?
Inferiority can be triggered by false assumptions, but my point was that Gai's statement was likely more impartial of the two. Lee has never witnessed himself run flat out unweighted, Gai has, therefore he is the superior source. Lee being envious of Sasuke's heritage is a given(not least because he appears to be an orphan), but again something which could colour his views of an accurate assessment of Sasuke's skill level.
Gai's statement is, again, he's about as fast as Lee, which could easily (and more logically) mean that he is just not
quite as fast.
Common sense is a useful thing for most situations, are you really disparaging it?
5: You have nothing to back up your claims under than guesses. The manga has a clear cut explanation for Sasuke's speed being at Lee's level. Just because you believe so otherwise doesn't make it right, nor does your assumption about Kakashi having higher speed has any underlying manga support at all. Gaara is literately a stationary fighter yet he's at kage level. This proves that speed is not even a deciding factor in climbing ranks.
Guesses may not always be wrong, and mine are more than reasonable. Something that does not having any direct manga panel referencing it as a character's opinion may yet be correct, especially if there's no compelling evidence otherwise.
Gaara is now a Kage-rank shinobi, and it is indeed true that speed isn't
the deciding factor in climbing ranks. However, for cartain combat styles, it definitely is. Kakashi pre-Sharingan is one of those fighters. He has a limited (and mostly unknown) jutsu arsenal, probably exclusively Raiton, perhaps some simple Doton and Suiton mixed in. However, he is not a ninjutsu specialist. He has only recently gained enough chakra that this can be a valid option in further development, and as Kakashi at this point has minor or no skills in genjutsu, his specialization IS AND CAN ONLY BE TAIJUTSU AND WEAPONRY. This what a genius surpassing Itachi's potential has trained for 7-8 years almost exclusively. Even with the Sharingan, Sasuke can't match him.
P.s: Don't bring grammar or any corrections into this, as I can't edit my posts due to some internet troubles nor do I re-read them. This forum or my posts are not an illustration of my English abilities. Keep the discussion where it's meant to be kept.
I was making a point (and a pun) on stubbornness and idioms.
