Dragon Ball & Dragon Ball Z Yotube Review.

TurrinB

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
1,351
Reaction score
72
My thoughts on this flagship series of Shonen:

[video=youtube;SpCK7JLtObw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpCK7JLtObw[/video]


In case those don't work:

Do you agree that Dragon Ball had better plot than Dragon Ball Z? Do you agree looking back that Dragon Ball Z had a-lot of plot holes? Do you agree that in retrospect Goku and Piccolo being aliens was random plot twist designed to extend the series past where it was originally intended to end?
 

TurrinB

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
1,351
Reaction score
72
Dragon Ball Z Review

[video=youtube;QpI3uKg-vx8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpI3uKg-vx8[/video]​
 

origin29

Member
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
489
Reaction score
20
DB did have better plot, but i dont care about DBZ's plot, i have naruto and bleach for that, mainly naruto. I love DBZ for the explosions and pure power.
 

kmrasengan

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
5,766
Reaction score
648
I think we knew goku was alien since he transformed to a monkey and picollo, well he just looked like one, but yeah i think DB had a better plot
 

Yusuke Urameshi

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
8,146
Reaction score
710
Idk. Never watched plain DB, only DBZ, GT, and Kai. xd
 

ziggyZ

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
7,387
Reaction score
593
DBZ IS THE GREATEST, fact. Period.
 

-Yard-

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
25,264
Reaction score
1,349
It's Dr. Gero, not Dr. Monroe.
If animal people bother you, it's an anime. No one complained about bugs bunny, it's there to entertain.
Goku is the main protagonist in DB. But in Z the Z fighters were all the main protagonist. Frieza Saga, it started out with Gohan, then krillin, then piccolo, then Vegeta being main protagonists at different parts. Just because Goku is a main character doesn't make him a main protagonist because it switches during Sagas. Like During android saga it was trunks, then the cell games it was gohan, majin buu saga it switched back to goku, then gohan, then back to goku.
Goku started out in DB wanting to be the greatest martial artist but it changed in Z as it was his new goal to defend the earth and become stronger. He already achieved being the greatest martial artist.
The villains are actually connected. Frieza had minions take over planets and sell them etc. So his minions were puppets.
Dr. Gero created androids which were his puppets and his background story is from dragon ball.
Naruto has arcs as well as dragon ball/z,
Zabuza, sand village war/chuunin exam arc, which tied into the Oro Arc, then the sasuke arc etc
Same thing happened with DBZ, all the villains (besides the movies) are a progression of something that happened before.
Piccolo isn't a namek, he's a Namekian.
Goku being an alien ruined the series? It put the missing piece in the puzzle. At the begining of dragonball you just have a kid that spawned out of no where which makes you wonder where the hell he's from. He didn't have a mother or father and in Z it makes it badass because you learn about the saiyan race and that someone who was a saiyan reject was sent to another planet to wipe it out but instead he's defending it and becomes more powerful than any saiyan in history.
In naruto, they fight Zabuza, you learn how strong he is then, they show the akatsuki which is a group of people that are stronger than them. Similar to piccolo and the saiyan race.

_____
DBZ Review
_____


Goku being an alien isn't a plot hole.
Shenron can't wish anyone dead because Shenron cannot grant a wish that exceeds the creators power Kami.
As for tails growing back, all Saiyans have the ability for their tail to grow back, unless it is permanently removed. Like trimming your finger-nails.
Vegeta can't turn Ozaru (Monkey form) on Namek because Namek does not have a moon, just 3 suns.
Frieza would have also just cut his tail off. He knows about saiyan techniques, he enslaved them, and blew up their planet.
Also, Goku is always using kaioken in fighting. It was said by king kai. Even if it's not visible or he doesn't announce it, it is still there. He powered it up one time when fighting pikkon. But it still puts a lot of strain if he was to push it further.
Naruto has transformations, Naruto has 9. Frieza has 5.
Raditz went to earth because Frieza sent him.
Saying that villains attack earth because of goku is like blaming a rape victim for what she was wearing.
 
Last edited:

Howard

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
33,078
Reaction score
1,326
It's Dr. Gero, not Dr. Monroe.
If animal people bother you, it's an anime. No one complained about bugs bunny, it's there to entertain.
Goku is the main protagonist in DB. But in Z the Z fighters were all the main protagonist. Frieza Saga, it started out with Gohan, then krillin, then piccolo, then Vegeta being main protagonists at different parts. Just because Goku is a main character doesn't make him a main protagonist because it switches during Sagas. Like During android saga it was trunks, then the cell games it was gohan, majin buu saga it switched back to goku, then gohan, then back to goku.
Goku started out in DB wanting to be the greatest martial artist but it changed in Z as it was his new goal to defend the earth and become stronger. He already achieved being the greatest martial artist.
The villains are actually connected. Frieza had minions take over planets and sell them etc. So his minions were puppets.
Dr. Gero created androids which were his puppets and his background story s from dragon ball.
Naruto has arcs as well as dragon ball/z,
Zabuza, sand village war/chuunin exam arc, which tied into the Oro Arc, then the sasuke arc etc
Same thing happened with DBZ, all the villains (besides the movies) are a progression of something that happened before.
Piccolo isn't a namek, he's a Namekian.
Goku being an alien ruined the series? It put the missing piece in the puzzle. At the begining of dragonball you just have a kid that spawned out of no where which makes you wonder where the hell he's from. He didn't have a mother or father and in Z it makes it badass because you learn about the saiyan race and that someone who was a saiyan reject was sent to another planet to wipe it out but instead he's defending it and becomes more powerful than any saiyan in history.
In naruto, they fight Zabuza, you learn how strong he is then, they show the akatsuki which is a group of people that are stronger than them. Similar to piccolo and the saiyan race.

_____
DBZ Review
_____


Goku being an alien isn't a plot hole.
Shenron can't whish anyone dead because Shenron cannot grant a wish that exceeds the creators power Kami.
As for tails growing back, all Saiyans have the ability for their tail to grow back, unless it is permanently removed. Like trimming your finger-nails.
Vegeta can't turn Ozaru (Monkey form) on Namek because Namek does not have a moon, just 3 suns.
Frieza would have also just cut his tail off. He knows about saiyan techniques, he enslaved them, and blew up their planet.
Also, Goku is always using kaioken in fighting. It was said by king kai. Even if it's not visible or he doesn't announce it, it is still there. He powered it up one time when fighting piccon. But it still puts a lot of strain if he was to push it further.
Naruto has transformations, Naruto has 9. Frieza has 5.
Raditz went to earth because Frieza sent him.
Saying that villains attack earth because of goku is like blaming a rape victim for what she was wearing.

Agreed on all points. O_O Honestly I was saying "what the hell" throughout the whole video. At one point he said "the fact that Goku was an alien ruined the series it completely destroyed the series" but then he said "it was great" if the Great Wall of China was destroyed or ruined would it have been Great?

Also the series progressed, Raditz was Frieza's henchman, Goku fights him. Vegeta and Nappa were Frieza's henchmen Goku fought them. Thhhhhen we go to the source and he fights Frieza. How is that different from Naruto fighting Nagato, then Obito then Madara? Nagato was Madara's henchman, Obito was Madara's henchman ._.'

Another point, he said what would a flash do to a villain. o_O it would blind them giving you a chance to attack or run. This was shown multiple times it was used against Frieza and Cell I believe I'm not sure it's been a while since I've re-watched Dbz and Db.

Now lets go to this. "They could simply wish the villain dead" :| they tried, the dragon balls can't do something which is beyond the power of the creator. Now lets clarify that. Kami couldn't kill the Saiyans but we saw him go with Goku to King Yama meaning he could travel to spirit world/the spirit realm meaning he could in essence go there himself to get Goku but doing it the Dragon ball route was faster. Also the Saiyans came for the Dragon balls not because Goku killed Raditz. So that isn't a plot hole. Also lets throw this out, Goku didn't kill Raditz, Piccolo did.

Nooow Frieza, first off he didn't just fight Goku right off the bat. First it was Vegeta he didn't need full power, then it was Gohan, Vegeta and Krillin for this one he needed more power thus the transformation. Then he fought Piccolo wherein he needed more power thus another power up. When Goku finally showed up he didn't go all out at first and when Frieza did begin to push him he had to get the power up. When he got the power up he was to strong for Frieza and Frieza had to power up to his max.

 
Last edited:

TurrinB

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
1,351
Reaction score
72
It's Dr. Gero, not Dr. Monroe.
If animal people bother you, it's an anime. No one complained about bugs bunny, it's there to entertain.
Goku is the main protagonist in DB. But in Z the Z fighters were all the main protagonist. Frieza Saga, it started out with Gohan, then krillin, then piccolo, then Vegeta being main protagonists at different parts. Just because Goku is a main character doesn't make him a main protagonist because it switches during Sagas. Like During android saga it was trunks, then the cell games it was gohan, majin buu saga it switched back to goku, then gohan, then back to goku.
Goku started out in DB wanting to be the greatest martial artist but it changed in Z as it was his new goal to defend the earth and become stronger. He already achieved being the greatest martial artist.
The villains are actually connected. Frieza had minions take over planets and sell them etc. So his minions were puppets.
Dr. Gero created androids which were his puppets and his background story is from dragon ball.
Naruto has arcs as well as dragon ball/z,
Zabuza, sand village war/chuunin exam arc, which tied into the Oro Arc, then the sasuke arc etc
Same thing happened with DBZ, all the villains (besides the movies) are a progression of something that happened before.
Piccolo isn't a namek, he's a Namekian.
Goku being an alien ruined the series? It put the missing piece in the puzzle. At the begining of dragonball you just have a kid that spawned out of no where which makes you wonder where the hell he's from. He didn't have a mother or father and in Z it makes it badass because you learn about the saiyan race and that someone who was a saiyan reject was sent to another planet to wipe it out but instead he's defending it and becomes more powerful than any saiyan in history.
In naruto, they fight Zabuza, you learn how strong he is then, they show the akatsuki which is a group of people that are stronger than them. Similar to piccolo and the saiyan race.

1. No its Dr. Moreau. I was referencing a famous novel;
2. True it's there to entertain, but entertainment is subjective. What entertains someone, may bother someone else. Keep in mind the Animal people thing is just my personal preference.
3. I believe I called Goku the main protagonist of Dragon Ball, not Z. Nevertheless Goku is the main protagonist of the series overall.
4. I cited Goku's goals in Z to be; get stronger and defend the Earth. I personally find those goals to be lacking in depth though.

5. It's episodic in the sense that the main villains are not typically connected and ultimately the final villain is not connected to any previous villains. The only real instance in the series where a main villain is defeated and then the next main villain was tied to that one was Vegeta - Frieza (My favorite part of DBZ Saiyan & Namek arc BTW). All the rest ether lack ties to each other or are completely removed from each other in sequential order & only have loose ties.

6. If him being an alien works for you, that's fine. To me it would have been better if Goku's origins were explained via fantasy elements rather than SCIFI, since DB was primarily Fantasy Genre up to that point. When I say it ruined the series I mean that it fundamentally changed a very well developed story (Dragon Ball) into a complete different & less well developed story stylistically (I explained why in the Review).

7. Akatsuki aren't a new race or from space. The equivalent in Naruto terms would be like if the whole Naruto series played out; Naruto became the strongest in history, hokage, etc... Than suddenly a space craft landed & someone with Rinnegan stepped out and said Rikudo was an alien from another planet & the Uzamaki/Uchiha are part alien. Than Jutsu, Ninja System, etc... all disappeared over the course of a few arc, and Naruto + Some other characters just became alien fighters in space. Such a change would destroy the story that had been established up until that point.

Goku being an alien isn't a plot hole.
Shenron can't wish anyone dead because Shenron cannot grant a wish that exceeds the creators power Kami.
As for tails growing back, all Saiyans have the ability for their tail to grow back, unless it is permanently removed. Like trimming your finger-nails.
Vegeta can't turn Ozaru (Monkey form) on Namek because Namek does not have a moon, just 3 suns.
Frieza would have also just cut his tail off. He knows about saiyan techniques, he enslaved them, and blew up their planet.
Also, Goku is always using kaioken in fighting. It was said by king kai. Even if it's not visible or he doesn't announce it, it is still there. He powered it up one time when fighting pikkon. But it still puts a lot of strain if he was to push it further.
Naruto has transformations, Naruto has 9. Frieza has 5.
Raditz went to earth because Frieza sent him.
Saying that villains attack earth because of goku is like blaming a rape victim for what she was wearing.

1. I'm pretty sure I said it was a poor plot device (not a plot hole).
2. People have already corrected me on this and I appreciated it. I was actually hoping some people would explain the "plot holes" I saw to me.
3. Explain the Tail thing more. I'm not sure I get what your saying.
4. Wasn't Pikkon Filler? It was never mentioned again after Frieza Arc.
5. Sure Naruto has transformations, but he is 1 character. DB spammed the transformation plot device like nobodies business. Also the power jumps with transformations in Naruto are not nearly as absurd.
6. Alright problem solved with Radditz
7. Don't compare Goku to a rape victim. Goku enjoys fighting, that shit is consensual.

Bottom line though, your free to have you opinion. I personally didn't think DBZ was good at all in terms of "plot". But i'm not going to say anyones wrong or stupid for thinking otherwise. We all enjoy different things for different reasons. Also keep in mind these are editorial pieces of mine, I.E. just my opinion.

Agreed on all points. O_O Honestly I was saying "what the hell" throughout the whole video. At one point he said "the fact that Goku was an alien ruined the series it completely destroyed the series" but then he said "it was great" if the Great Wall of China was destroyed or ruined would it have been Great?
I think I covered most of the other things that needed to be said in my response to the other poster, but i'll address this in a bit more detail:

When I say it ruined the series I mean that it fundamentally changed a very well developed story (Dragon Ball) into a complete different & less well developed story stylistically (I explained why in the Review). However this is just in relation to the plot.

Now the reasons I consider DBZ great, which I said in the review but will try and make it more clear to prevent any confusion, is for 2 reasons.

1. Plot is not the only thing that makes a work of fiction enjoyable, especially when talking about the Anime. There is also action, music, animation to consider. DBZ revolutionized these elements in many ways which made the series extremely enjoyable & it deserves to be mentioned as a great series for that reason alone.

2. DBZ was a revolutionary Anime historically, in the sense that it spread awareness of Anime and brought it to a new high of popularity. I probably would not even be into Anime if not for DBZ, and I would guess the same is true for thousands of people. I think it's great for that reason.
 
Last edited:

Howard

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
33,078
Reaction score
1,326
3. Explain the Tail thing more. I'm not sure I get what your saying.

Simply put a Saiyan's tail can grow back just like certain Lizard's limbs or a human's finger nails. It's shown when Gohan's Tail grows back while being hit around by Turles.


Most of the Saiyans in the anime get their tails removed, but on some occasions, they grow back. The Daizenshuu description is that the tail will often suddenly grow back if the Saiyan is in danger.

Saying that villains attack earth because of goku is like blaming a rape victim for what she was wearing.

7. Don't compare Goku to a rape victim. Goku enjoys fighting, that shit is consensual.

In that scenario Goku would be the clothes not the rape victim. The rape victim would be the Earth since Goku was on Earth and you said that's what brought the villains there. Hence what he meant by "saying that villains attack earth because of Goku is like blaming a rape victim for what she's wearing."
 
Last edited:

TurrinB

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
1,351
Reaction score
72
Simply put a Saiyan's tail can grow back just like certain Lizard's limbs or a human's finger nails. It's shown when Gohan's Tail grows back while being hit around by Turles.


Most of the Saiyans in the anime get their tails removed, but on some occasions, they grow back. The Daizenshuu description is that the tail will often suddenly grow back if the Saiyan is in danger.
I got that part, but what I mean was, is there ever a reason given for why they never grow their tale back later in DBZ, despite being in danger many times?

In that scenario Goku would be the clothes not the rape victim. The rape victim would be the Earth since Goku was on Earth and you said that's what brought the villains there. Hence what he meant by "saying that villains attack earth because of Goku is like blaming a rape victim for what she's wearing."
But i'm not blaming Earth, who is the rape victim in this scenario right?
 

Howard

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
33,078
Reaction score
1,326
I got that part, but what I mean was, is there ever a reason given for why they never grow their tale back later in DBZ, despite being in danger many times?


But i'm not blaming Earth, who is the rape victim in this scenario right?

If you remove something enough times xd it's most likely going to stay gone? At least that's how I looked at it. As a child Goku's tail would grow back but as he grew up he began removing it same with Gohan. Basically to me it seemed like as they got older the tail simply quit growing back. If you take Gt into account which I usually don't (I watched it cause I was hooked on Db and Dbz as a kid and wanted a way to keep the feeling going xd) when Goku reverted to his child form his tail reappeared.



You were blaming Goku (the clothes) for the villain (rapist) attacking the Earth (rape victim). That's what he meant.
 
Last edited:

-Ibrahim-

Leaf Village Regular 🍃
Regular
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
967
Reaction score
43
DBZ is the best. Dragonball is really good, it shows Goku's childhood. But DBZ is the best.

Honestly, i have no idea why it got split up. The whole show should have been called Dragonball just like the manga. Splitting it up causes people to completely skip the first one. The timeskip shouldn't have been a reason to make a whole new show. (Naruto)

Look at One Piece for example. Just because it was a time-skip, they didn't split the show, which was smart. Anyway, DBZ has alot of epic moments. I'd pick DBZ over DB anyday.
 
Top