The truth behind the Uchiha Massacre

[Xaviour]

Tsukyomi can be broken by those who have the same eyes. Let's say you are an Uchiha would you go willingly to an eternal sleep? Or would you fight the Genjutso? Now multiply that by the whole Uchiha Clan....

What I'm trying to say is that it's sort of obvious why the Uchiha Clan had to go in order for the Moon Eye Plan to be achievable and permanent. Otherwise Madara/Obito would have to deal with I don't know how many Uchiha's who are bound to have sharingans and bound to be blood related to either one of them, be it more closely or further apart.

Taking out the Uchiha Clan was the logical way to ensure that any major threat to the MEP was eliminated. As we know Sasuke's survival was not intended by no one apart from Itachi, who misteriously became so ill he had to resort to heavy medicine in order to live up to the age of 25 or something. Coincidence? I don't think so.

If you pay attention Obito only marches forward with his plans after Itachi is dead and he had always hoped for one to kill the other. Fortunately for him, Itachi let his brother live, which proved in handy as Nagato had died.

But all summed up it's pretty obvious that the goal was always to eliminate any Uchiha that might attempt to frustrate the MEP.

That's one less needing explanation.

Seems legit, but I'm also wondering why he kept saying that he had a vendetta against the Uchiha himself when he just said "I don't care anymore"

Perhaps it was just him carrying out Madara's will?

 

[ImNoOne]

Seems legit, but I'm also wondering why he kept saying that he had a vendetta against the Uchiha himself when he just said "I don't care anymore"

Perhaps it was just him carrying out Madara's will?

Well Madara did have a grudge but my theory is built upon the necessity of taking out the Uchiha Clan. The fact that Obito did not care for anything makes it all the more plausible and more acceptable that he would be willing to kill his kinsmen despite of not having any grudge against them. He might not have wanted to bring Madara back to life but he surely was planing on launching the MEP. So grudge or not the Uchiha had to go.

You can say that both Obito and Madara would have wanted the Uchiha dead. The difference is that Obito wanted them dead simply because they were a threat to his plans as for Madara wanted them dead not only for said reason but also because he had a personal grudge and vendetta.


Another thing I've been thinking is about the all Obito still wants to revive Rin no matter what. I find this unlikely to be true.

Kishi has made Naruto with some very unique characteristics in an anime. In general all characters can be characterised by action of evolving. Not only physically like in DBZ but mentally as well. Characters mature up, find new goals in life, anger turns to hate and love turns into compassion. The cycles of evolutions are present nearly in every chapters. There are no characters that have maintained the same way of looking at things for the entire series. Example, the fission that lead to Madara to go against the alliance with the Senju and the election of a Senju to be their leader was the fact that his brother died as a result of that "war" and to stop the war and ally with the enemy was throwing to the ground his flesh and blood sacrifices. This was ultimately the reason behind the events up to the valley of the end and yet years after the grudge against his kinsmen seems to have dissipated to the extent that he would go out of his hiding in order to help someone from the leaf, which he later finds out to be an Uchiha. Yet he does not try to have his eye. He helps him to a certain extent.
He is no longer obsessed with his brothers death. In fact he cares so much about that that he let not only 1 but 2 and 3 others become Hokages. He's purpose has evolved. He knows that the root of the evil that was don to him and his brothers is not to be blamed entirely on the Senju, nor on the Uchiha. Not even on the Younger and Elder Brothers. The root of all evil is the balance that bound to exist in the real world.

So being that characters evolve, become more mature, crystallise more close motives into wider ones. Why would Obito be any different? As far as we know Obito might be sicking the exact same thing as Madara. Rin might be a bonus, his primordial motive but most likely is nothing now but a motive no longer an objective.

 

['Nāpalm]

infinite tsukuyomi cannot be dispelled

 

[ImNoOne]

infinite tsukuyomi cannot be dispelled

And why is that? Where as that ever been stated? I thought Itachi said that all jutsus have a weakness...

 

[shelke]

I don't agree with your first point. I seriously doubt anyone would be able to break free of the Eternal Tsukiyomi given that it involves the usage of 10 tails to cast the illusion, not even uchiha. In my opinion, Tobi just massacred the clan to make his Madara disguise more believable, as Nagato pretty much told him to buzz off when he said he was Madara. We know that Uchiha betrayed Madara when he lost everything to fight for them. Such a man would only resent them.

He attacked the village by controlling the Kyuubi like Madara did which hashirama, and then help Itachi massacre the clan. Because of the similarity in patterns and the hate for the clan even being an Uchiha, he fooled Itachi even, making him believe he was the real Madara.

I agree with this point 100% though:

Another thing that has been bugging me is that Obito needed Sasuke to sync with the Gedo Mazo.

If memory strikes me right Rinne Tensei is an ability bound within the Rinnegan, meaning it has nothing to do with the Jubbi. For a while I thought otherwise, but ever since it has been confirmed that the Gedo is nothing else than the empty shell of the Jubbi I strated asking my self why would Obito need Sasuke to sync with the Mazo? Surely wasn't to bring Madara back to life, for that all he needed was someone with the Rinnegan willing to give an incredible amount of chakra for the task. Then why?

The answer then stroke me. During the battle with Minato, Obito never tried to use Genjutso. I thought that had to be just plot no jutso, but then I realised that the feat of having controled the 4th Mizukage was Madara's and not Obito's as the Ninja who attacked Kakashi and Rin were already claiming to be from the "Bloody Mist", which we know (via Kisame's flash backs) to have been Madara/Obito's doing. Obviously it wasn't Obito and that leaves us Madara.

From here we can take that Obito doesn't have a single feat of Genjutso, never mind strong ones like Tsukiyomi. He never showed to be able to use other techniques like Amaterasu or Susano'O. So what I'm thinking is that maybe Obito does not have a strong aptitude for these feats of the MS. His abilities seem to be of a totally different breed. In which case how would he launch the MEP even if became the Jubbi's Jinchuriki?

The answer is simple. That's why he needed to sync Sasuke with the Gedo Mazo. He wasn't talking about the Mazo but the Jubbi! He wanted Sasuke to pull out that feat. He never intended to bring Madara back to life, why would he? As long as Madara was out of the picture he would be the one calling the shots, and a brain washed Sasuke would be easy to control.

As for giving Sasuke to Kabuto I don't think he ever wanted to go through with his part of the deal. And as for Kabuto I think all he wanted was to bring havoc and possibly survive the MEP and then capture Sasuke. I think it's important to recall that DSM Kabuto has proven to be quite effective shielding him self against visual Genjutsus and the Eternal Tsukiyomi is basically a wider version of a strong visual Genjutsu, the eternal part is simply because of the boost that the Jubbi chakra gives, but it's basically a Tsukiyomi.

 

[ImNoOne]

I don't agree with your first point. I seriously doubt anyone would be able to break free of the Eternal Tsukiyomi given that it involves the usage of 10 tails to cast the illusion, not even uchiha. In my opinion, Tobi just massacred the clan to make his Madara disguise more believable, as Nagato pretty much told him to buzz off when he said he was Madara. We know that Uchiha betrayed Madara when he lost everything to fight for them. Such a man would only resent them.

He attacked the village by controlling the Kyuubi like Madara did which hashirama, and then help Itachi massacre the clan. Because of the similarity in patterns and the hate for the clan even being an Uchiha, he fooled Itachi even, making him believe he was the real Madara.

I agree with this point 100% though:

How come you agree with that post but you don't think Eternal Tsukiyomi can be broken?

I'll explain why I think it can be broken by an Uchiha. The info we've been fed so far about Tsukiyomi said only that is a very powerful Genjutso were the user has total control over the reality the target is perceiving. In other words is a genjutsu where all aspects can be manipulated.

Itachi's Tsukiyomi is by far the strongest, Itachi was able to stretch the experience up to 72h AND his Tsukiyomi could only be broken by an Uchiha eyes, a close related one. As for the brother bullshit it's purely fanboyism. All we have is close related, which mean that could have been a father or maybe an uncle or cousin... We don't know how close related it would have to be. I'll admit that in the case of Itachi's it might have been needed either the brother or the father.

But no where else is it stated that Tsukiyomi can't be broken, actually we've seen Bee breaking Sasuke's Tsukiyomi fairly easy and that goes to prove that not everybody has a Tsukiyomi as strong as Itachi, and frankly not even Madara as been counted for as a master of Genjutsu. :/

Now as for why the "Eternal" part does not deny Tsukiyomi's downfall. The reason why the Juubi is needed for the MEP is because Madara and Obito intend it to be eternal, Itachi bared a huge chakra toll each time he used Tsukiyomi and the farthest he pushed it the greater the toll.
Now Itachi only used Tsukiyomi one person at a time and one person was a job large enough so that we could estimate that 3 Tsukiyomi's a day would be like reaching close to all he had to give.

Bare with me a little longer, imagine the toll it would take on the user, chakra wise, if the user wanted to cast Tsukiyomi for 144h to three persons at a time. The chakra toll this would represent would be 2 times as much as Itachi could bare before going 0 chakra.

Madara and Obito want to cast an ever lasting Tsukiyomi on everybody!! The cheer chakra toll alone demands infinite chakra supplies!
Putting it in simple math you'll need millions times infinite amounts of chakra. This is why the Juubi is needed because of the cheer amount of chakra needed to cast the technique.

Now all of this does not imply that the Tsukiyomi it self would be any stronger.. in fact the Eternal Tsukiyomi it's remains, although eternal, only a Tsukiyomi.

There.

 

[shelke]

That is a valid point. Perhaps it's because of massive chakra reserves and nothing more. Well, let's wait and find out. I still believe that my side of the argument is not entirely without weight. Obito needed a convincing ruse to brand himself Madara, as no one would believe him. He couldn't have put this plan into action without more members and they wouldn't have followed him out of fear that he was Madara until he convinced them. That's why he went for the massacre and the Kyuubi attack. Anyhow, let's see what happens. Great points regardless. + rep.

 

[ImNoOne]

Thanks. And yeah a theory is just as good as it comes true, I may have logic on my side but Kishi has proven my logics wrong before so I might as well be wrong.