Why would people consider 3rd hokage for top 10?

[Bijuu13]

Nothing .. Nothing that he has would put him in top 10

 

[Minator93]

The Feat of SOLO-ing Edo Hashirama + Edo Tobirama + Prime Orochimaru is still the greatest.

No other Shinobi has a feat that Rivals his and remember that was old Hiruzen. In his Prime he was way OP and that's why he was known as the GOD OF ALL SHINOBIS

 

[Drakengard]

5 in taijutsu, ninjutsu, genjutsu, and intelligence isn't that bad! Especially with Enma since he can transform into deadly forms of defense and offense. If we based Hashirama or Tobirama on their ET performance they wouldn't look as flashy as they do now.

 

[6pathofpain]

The Feat of SOLO-ing Edo Hashirama + Edo Tobirama + Prime Orochimaru is still the greatest.

No other Shinobi has a feat that Rivals his and remember that was old Hiruzen. In his Prime he was way OP and that's why he was known as the GOD OF ALL SHINOBIS

Oh you mean the fight where it was stated that they were just playing with him, and he had to kill himself to beat a brain dead 1st and 2nd hokage, but still ultimately lost oro becase he died and oro lived?

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

if you consider hashirama top 10 shouldnt you also consider the man who "beat" him and his bro at the same time?

 

[6pathofpain]

5 in taijutsu, ninjutsu, genjutsu, and intelligence isn't that bad! Especially with Enma since he can transform into deadly forms of defense and offense. If we based Hashirama or Tobirama on their ET performance they wouldn't look as flashy as they do now.

Whats the 3rd defense against Flower world? What can he do against Bringer of darkness but use death reaper seal and kill himself? How does he get through any of the raikage's lightning sheilds? How does he beat suasnoo or itachi genjutsu? How does he even touch minato, BM naruto or obito?what does he do against madara's suasnoo? What does he do against planetary devastation?What does he do against kakashi's mutiple elements and sharingan which give him to power to easily counter all hiruzen jutsu's, and counter him in taijutsu, or kamui? How does he get passed Gaara's defense and escape all his sand or catch him in the air? What does he do against dust release?

Should i keep goin?

 

[6pathofpain]

if you consider hashirama top 10 shouldnt you also consider the man who "beat" him and his bro at the same time?

You mean the man who killed himself to beat to brain dead ninja who were playing with him the whole fight(stated by oro during if you read the manga)? No, actually i dont...

 

[Invsblphntm]

Let me tell you exactly why:

> Beat Orochimaru, Hashirama, and Tobirama AT THE SAME TIME WHILE ****ING OLD AS HELL

> God of Shinobi, people always talk about how Hashirama was a "myth" like the SO6P, Hiruzen is a God of Shinobi like the SO6P

> Called the strongest Hokage by the guy who said Hashirama was unmatched in current shinobi -after Hiruzen's death-

> 5 in every single databook stat that wouldn't be affected by his age

 

[ForbiddenUzumaki]

if you consider hashirama top 10 shouldnt you also consider the man who "beat" him and his bro at the same time?

Orochimaru impure world resurrection wasn't that good, he didn't manipulate them at their full potential thus they were a lot weaker. Hashi can solo Hiruzen while drinking some Tea.

 

[cLang cLang]

No no, Hiruzen is better then Sasuke and defeated the 1st and 2nd, he's definantly top 10 material U_U He's top 1 material.

''Hello, Hiruzen."

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[6pathofpain]

Let me tell you exactly why:

> Beat Orochimaru, Hashirama, and Tobirama AT THE SAME TIME WHILE ****ING OLD AS HELL

> God of Shinobi, people always talk about how Hashirama was a "myth" like the SO6P, Hiruzen is a God of Shinobi like the SO6P

> Called the strongest Hokage by the guy who said Hashirama was unmatched in current shinobi -after Hiruzen's death-

> 5 in every single databook stat that wouldn't be affected by his age

Whats the 3rd defense against Flower world? What can he do against Bringer of darkness but use death reaper seal and kill himself? How does he get through any of the raikage's lightning sheilds? How does he beat suasnoo or itachi genjutsu? How does he even touch minato, BM naruto or obito?what does he do against madara's suasnoo? What does he do against planetary devastation?What does he do against kakashi's mutiple elements and sharingan which give him to power to easily counter all hiruzen jutsu's, and counter him in taijutsu, or kamui? How does he get passed Gaara's defense and escape all his sand or catch him in the air? What does he do against dust release?

Should i keep goin?

 

[Prime Rib]

He holds the title GOD OF SHINOBI

 

[6pathofpain]

Hiruzen is a jack-of-all-trades. He is good at everything, but doesn't have a special talent. He's the idealic shinobi. You don't need Kekkei Genkai to be powerful (although Part II is trying to change that statement). In contrast to your argument, do you know all of his jutsu? He knew all of Konoha's existing jutsu at one point in time, with 1000 genjutsu alone. You can't say "He doesn't have a counter for this" when we haven't really seen **** from him. People speculate a lot because:
A. We'll probably never see him in his prime
B. He had a 5 in everything save for the skills that are reduced with age.

Also, other than stopping the Edo Tensei technique itself, Shiki Fujin is the only known jutsu that is known to completely seal the Edos. And only two people in the world are confirmed to have known of the technique.



Well, let's talk about the fact that Orochimaru waited until Hiruzen was 68 to enact his plan to kill him. Even stating in this same manga that if he were 10 years younger, Hiruzen would defeat him. Honestly, people do overrate Hiruzen a lot, but the majority downplay that fight in the worst way possible. A 68 year old man from Part I defeating two top-class shinobi, be it by any means, is undoubtedly impressive. And if you really think what he did was nothing, then you're one of those people who will always believe their argument against Hiruzen is right and can't be countered. Fact is, BOTH sides can counter each argument. I've been on both sides, I used to hate Hiruzen. To me, he was just an old geezer who didn't have any sort of feats. But that's the catch. He doesn't have any shown feats, therefore any Konoha jutsu you see for the most part is implied to have been known to Hiruzen.



Damn. Got me there.

Everything you said is cool in all but it doesnt disprove that hiruzen is not top 10

Just ansewer this...

Whats the 3rd defense against Flower world? What can he do against Bringer of darkness but use death reaper seal and kill himself? How does he get through any of the raikage's lightning sheilds? How does he beat suasnoo or itachi genjutsu? How does he even touch minato, BM naruto or obito?what does he do against madara's suasnoo? What does he do against planetary devastation?What does he do against kakashi's mutiple elements and sharingan which give him to power to easily counter all hiruzen jutsu's, and counter him in taijutsu, or kamui? How does he get passed Gaara's defense and escape all his sand or catch him in the air? What does he do against dust release?

 

[6pathofpain]

I will say this. Much of Hiruzen's counters are only based on speculation since we don't know the majority of his techniques, leaving it up to the reader's imagination. However, I believe the counters are fair since they are based on assumptions we already have.

1. He's mastered every element, there should be a wind technique he knows that's powerful enough to blow the pollen away.

2. In the manga, when he was caught in Bringer Of Darkness, he used his sense of smell to find Hashirama and Tobirama.

3. The 4th Raikage's Lightning Release Armor isn't a shield, it increases his reflexes in order to make him faster.

3.5 The Sandaime Raikage is a tank, but as I said before, he most likely has a plethora of wind techniques. If not, Enma is diamon fortified.



4. I'll give you that for now. I can't think of anything to defeat Susanoo at the moment. However, Hiruzen seems to be a genjutsu master. It'd be interesting to see how he'd try to break out of Itachi's genjutsu.

5. Speed is another thing that seems to be hard for Hirzuen to counter as of now. However, he has high intelligence. If nothing else, he could figure out everything that Kakashi has figured out about Obito's jutsu.

6. As Itachi stated, you have to use your strongest jutsu on the core of the Chibaku Tensei in order to destroy it. Whatever that may be, I don't think Hiruzen would have a hard time figuring out what to do and using his strongest technique. As of now, his strongest shown would have to be Dragon Flame Bomb, which was so intense it turned white hot.

7. Hiruzen is basically an older Kakashi without the Sharingan. The Sharingan is what gives Kakashi his talent, and Hiruzen's Sarutobi lineage is what gives Hiruzen his natural talent. I'd say they're both about equal. However, unless Hiruzen can instantaneously use a substitution jutsu, I don't see him really escaping Kamui at the moment. It all depends on what age Hiruzen is.

8. Enma is going to play a huge factor in defeating Gaara. The strongest shield vs the strongest mineral-enriched staff. Once again, it all depends on his age. Keep in mind Gaara is strong, but he's young and inexperienced. If Hiruzen's younger, he could defeat Gaara as long as his stamina holds out.

9. Dust Release's main catch is it's element of surprise. Seeing as how Hiruzen and Onoki were the longest serving Kages, it would be strange to think they never fought before. If Hiruzen has fought him and survived before, he's certainly been able to escape the technique. Anyone shinobi with the basic Shushin no Jutsu should be able to escape the cubed version before it activates as long as they know how the technique works.

So, Hiruzen is 7 - 4, with age playing a huge factor in most of his fights. I'm not saying Old Hiruzen is top 10, but in his prime, he should definitely be in the top 10 if not number 10 at least.

Speculation...exactly, why do people say he can beat people when they know nothing about them. It was said that with rinnegan Nagato can use every ninjutsu, but i doubt people would use that as a arguement if nagato was put against someone.

An when was it said Hiruzen could use every element? let alone a master, last time i check he could only use fire and earth

 

[6pathofpain]

He knew every existing justu at a certain point. That would require the mastery, if not the use of each element. He's only been shown using fire and earth, however.

Credit goes to Owarij for his post, Hiruzen Strength Completely Analyzed:



EDIT: Found the Databook page

[SPOILERS]

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[/SPOILERS]

Well if you look up hiruzen's stats youll see that he only has earth and fire, and his mastery of the other elements it 1000% speculation and theres no evidence he knows the elements

 

[EveNU]

Because Kishi says so.

 

[6pathofpain]

Because Kishi says so.

Yea the same kishi that said itachi's invincible, pains invincible, hashirama power was that of a fairytale an only comparable to SO6P(the strongest ninja ever, and hiruzen has never had such praise) and said minato was a ninja never to be surpassed.

Go be close minded somewhere else...

 

[jmnaruto12]

3rd Hokage lol... hell even Iruka could beat the 1st and 2nd with Reaper Death Seal... Hiruzen lost that fight to oro.. cmon man, oro hands got unsealed by in the next arc then did Piss No Jutsu on Hiruzens grave toooo many people stronger than him to be top 10

 

[steeldracula]

lol the 3rd hokage was the strongest hokage in his prime as he was stated to be the god of hokage. Furthermore, his summon enma can be transformed into a staff which was close to diamond tough capable of defending nearly every attack... he has known over 1000 jutsu's and you people think that he doesn't have any jutsu's to attack??? what are people thinking? he is in the top 10. dont make up useless threads like this! even look at his databook.

 

[Exaar]

My take on Hiruzen.

Let me just say this:

Hiruzen was a master of over 1000 Genjutsu's, he Also has a 5 in Genjutsu

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He was known as "the professor" for Knowing and being able to use all known (Non Kg) Jutsu's in the leaf at one Point in time.
He has shown Fire and earth, I would say it's safe to assume he can also use Water, Possibly Wind aswell.
Also having a 5 in Ninjutsu

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Even in his old age he was said to be the strongest of the 5 current kages.
Kabuto has been a Spy from a Very young age, He has spied in every village since a child , and knows things others don't know.

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Hiruzen also has Mostly all 5's in his Databook Stats. Only lacking Speed/Strength/Stamina because of his Old age.

Proof os his Weakening in his old age. hiruzen was suprised how heavy Enma felt in his pole form

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Proof of his stamina weakening. One of the Anbu stats his chara has declined.

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Enma asked what was wrong with him and stated that he wasn't fighting like he normaly does.
Yet he was still able to hold his ground against two Kages.

Even in his old age, it was said he was Equal to Oro, when the manga had stated many times he is far weaker than his prime.

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Even Though Hiruzen was "Slacking" and Lacking his normal fighting prowess, He still was able to Compete with both Hashirama's and Tobirama's Taijutsu while planting Tags of them.
Even oro didn't notice.

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Enma has already Proved to be able to Counter Hashirama's wood style.

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He has already Countered bringer of darkness.

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Note: Look at the Page, and you see "Sniff", So hirzens sense of Smell must be quite good to be able to find Hashirama and Tobirama while he is blind.

Thats all i can be bothered to do at this point in timeU_U.