[Theory] The Details of the Set-Up

[sageadvice]

As I mentioned before, I do think that Madara had something to do with Rin's death, using it as a tool to turn Obito. However, if this is the event that does it, and it seems it is, then we are missing part of the equation. Why are Kakashi and Rin there?

So, let's see... Someone at Konoha wanted to learn all jutsu, and maybe bumped into a Zetsu working on behalf of Madara. This fellow, we'll call him Orochimaru, learns a few things from this Zetsu, like how to mix DNAs to make a better entity. Someone else at Konoha wants the power to protect Konoha and surpass the God of Shinobi, Sarutobi. We'll call him.... I dunno... Danzo. Danzo sees some of the cool stuff Orochimaru learned and wants Orochimaru to give him a power-up. So, now, Danzo wants Orochimaru to give him more power, and Orochimaru wants more power from Madara via Zetsu, and Madara needs Obito to abandon all hope except the hope that, this very chapter, Zetsu put into him that people can be resurrected via this massive genjutsu, which we'll call.... the Moon's Eye Plan.

So, a deal is struck between Zetsu, on behalf of Madara, and Orochimaru, that Madara will teach Orochimaru more, but only if he can get Kakashi and Rin to a certain spot at a designated time. And another deal is struck between Orochimaru and Danzo, that Orochimaru will work to make Danzo stronger than he could imagine, but only if Danzo orders two specific ANBU to a certain spot at a certain time. Because he feels it is for the greater good, he does exactly this and sends.... Kakashi and Rin, as requested.

Meanwhile, Madara, via a Zetsu clone using Madara's chakra, is puppeteering Yagura and has Mist shinobi deploy to a certain spot at a certain time....

Things work out predictably, and Madara, via Zetsu, teaches more to Orochimaru, who, using that knowledge and Sharingan later provided to him by Zetsu furthers his research to an unprecedented level and makes himself and Danzo way stronger, and, meanwhile, Obito sees Rin die and buys into Moon's Eye as a means to resurrect her, as Zetsu promised.

 

[Whiteknight]

As I mentioned before, I do think that Madara had something to do with Rin's death, using it as a tool to turn Obito. However, if this is the event that does it, and it seems it is, then we are missing part of the equation. Why are Kakashi and Rin there?

So, let's see... Someone at Konoha wanted to learn all jutsu, and maybe bumped into a Zetsu working on behalf of Madara. This fellow, we'll call him Orochimaru, learns a few things from this Zetsu, like how to mix DNAs to make a better entity. Someone else at Konoha wants the power to protect Konoha and surpass the God of Shinobi, Sarutobi. We'll call him.... I dunno... Danzo. Danzo sees some of the cool stuff Orochimaru learned and wants Orochimaru to give him a power-up. So, now, Danzo wants Orochimaru to give him more power, and Orochimaru wants more power from Madara via Zetsu, and Madara needs Obito to abandon all hope except the hope that, this very chapter, Zetsu put into him that people can be resurrected via this massive genjutsu, which we'll call.... the Moon's Eye Plan.

So, a deal is struck between Zetsu, on behalf of Madara, and Orochimaru, that Madara will teach Orochimaru more, but only if he can get Kakashi and Rin to a certain spot at a designated time. And another deal is struck between Orochimaru and Danzo, that Orochimaru will work to make Danzo stronger than he could imagine, but only if Danzo orders two specific ANBU to a certain spot at a certain time. Because he feels it is for the greater good, he does exactly this and sends.... Kakashi and Rin, as requested.

Meanwhile, Madara, via a Zetsu clone using Madara's chakra, is puppeteering Yagura and has Mist shinobi deploy to a certain spot at a certain time....

Things work out predictably, and Madara, via Zetsu, teaches more to Orochimaru, who, using that knowledge and Sharingan later provided to him by Zetsu furthers his research to an unprecedented level and makes himself and Danzo way stronger, and, meanwhile, Obito sees Rin die and buys into Moon's Eye as a means to resurrect her, as Zetsu promised.

Sure, this is a good enough theory. We know that Orochimaru and Danzo cooperated together long after Orochimaru apparently defected from Konoha as a missing-nin. It's possible that Orochimaru is still, in some capacity, "loyal" to Konoha. I wonder if he knows that Danzo has been killed yet or not? Orochimaru's cursed seal was not present during that fight for Orochimaru to witness from.

In any case, there are lots of ways that this could happen. Maybe it is a legitimate part of war: Kakashi and Rin get into trouble and Rin dies of her own accord. Maybe it is a setup, with Orochimaru and Danzo. Or maybe Madara was using his powerful genjutsu to control an unwitting person to getting them into position. Or maybe the "sleep" is some sort of ruse, and madara himself is out on the battlefield (as some kind of disguised clone or hologram projection like what Pain used). There are lots of options.

If it indeed was Orochimaru's involvement, that sets up the manga for some extremely interesting reveals later, since Orochimaru and Sasuke are, eventually, going to get involved in the final battle somehow. They show up to the field, and Kakashi and Obito are fighting each other. Obito says something about letting Rin die, and Orochimaru joins in with "Oh, an old man with a sickle paid me to send her to her death". Suddenly, Obito realizes he's been played and it becomes obvious that Orochimaru isn't a complete enemy. That would make for an amazing climax to the story.

I personally believe that Orochimaru isn't a "bad guy" completely. I think he's still loyal to Konoha and Danzo to some extent, and he is doing the same thing as Itachi was: protecting Konoha from the shadows like a true shinobi. Since we know Danzo was responsible for the slaughter of the Uchiha, it does make some sense that Danzo might be responsible for the death of Hiruzen too, if he thought it was in the best interests of the village. That and killing the kazekage and leading the hidden sand village into a battle that it would have no chance to win, weakened that enemy and turned them into a humble ally.

Like I said, there are lots of possibilities here and I think it's very possible that Kishi could unload some real twists in the coming chapters. Orochimaru was brought back, and there's probably a good reason for that.

 

[sageadvice]

Butttt.... Orochimaru was the guy that created the Hidden Sound Village and involved them and Sunagakure in a plot to destroy Konoha?

 

[thegame]

You got many things wrong though, you provide no evidence and is basicly telling a story that everyone has heard before.. Do you have a point with this or not?

It could be very likely that Orochimarou made a deal with madara, so that he got some of Hashis DNA (possibly Tobiramas DNA too), in order to do some things for him, lets say oro did something that made Yahiko create Akatsuki, as a favor for Madara, which would be very likely, since Madara probably couldn't do it..

"Meanwhile, Madara, via a Zetsu clone using Madara's chakra, is puppeteering Yagura and has Mist shinobi deploy to a certain spot at a certain time...."

I don't think Yagura was Mizukage at this point in time, since he's so young the first time we see him, which is probably 8 years after the 9 tails attack, so it is about 9 years, from when Obito meets Madara.

And yes I can prove this, go read the chapter of Kisames memory, then "see" the chapter showing us Obito at the chunin exam, look for Ibiki in both, and do the math.

 

[Uchiha Villians]

Very good theory, very possible, but we'll have to wait and see what happens.

 

[thegame]

I personally believe that Orochimaru isn't a "bad guy" completely. I think he's still loyal to Konoha and Danzo to some extent, and he is doing the same thing as Itachi was: protecting Konoha from the shadows like a true shinobi. Since we know Danzo was responsible for the slaughter of the Uchiha, it does make some sense that Danzo might be responsible for the death of Hiruzen too, if he thought it was in the best interests of the village. That and killing the kazekage and leading the hidden sand village into a battle that it would have no chance to win, weakened that enemy and turned them into a humble ally.

Like I said, there are lots of possibilities here and I think it's very possible that Kishi could unload some real twists in the coming chapters. Orochimaru was brought back, and there's probably a good reason for that.

I don't think Oro is a good guy, and I can't see where you got that from.. Danzo had Shisuis eye, we don't know when he got the implants in his arm though, but he could just have used the eye to force Oro if he wanted to...

Danzo always wanted to protect Konoha, but he never hated Hiruzen, Danzo never wanted Hiruzen to die, and I can't see anything that would implicate that he would. His final memory showed us that he was always running after Hiruzen. They both loved Konoha, and Hiruzen gave Danzo a lot of influence and power in Konoha. It proves that Hiruzen trusted Danzo. Judging from when Danzo got all his sharingans, it is likely that Oro made a deal with Danzo at the time of his attack on Konoha.

He probably gave made a deal to give Danzo some of Hashiramas DNA, and in return Danzo didn't interfere with Oros attack. This doesn't mean Danzo wanted Hiruzen to die. He knew Konoha wouldn't be beaten that easy. Besides he has always been protecting Konohas interests. Just see when he made a deal with Hanzo to stop Akatsuki in the 3rd war, when Yahiko was killed. This was all Danzos plan, and he knew already at this time that the Akatsuki was an organization that needed to be destroyed, however, it partly failed, and Nagatos hate grew even more, and he used his rinnengan to reach new hights. Danzo also benifitted from this, since it resulted in the death of Hanzo. He is a vice a man.

 

[sageadvice]

And yes I can prove this, go read the chapter of Kisames memory, then "see" the chapter showing us Obito at the chunin exam, look for Ibiki in both, and do the math.

That would be a great measure of time! Do you happen to have the chapters?

 

[thegame]

That would be a great measure of time! Do you happen to have the chapters?

Jo go to mangareader.net I'm not sure about the numbers, but since the chapters are named it's easy to find where Kisame is defeated by Gai, it happens right after that. The one with obito is just few chapters old, and named obito uchiha i think.

 

[sageadvice]

Jo go to mangareader.net I'm not sure about the numbers, but since the chapters are named it's easy to find where Kisame is defeated by Gai, it happens right after that. The one with obito is just few chapters old, and named obito uchiha i think.

It seems to me that Ibiki is the same age when he interrogates Kisame, right before Kisame meets Tobi/Madara, as when he proctors the Chunin exam for Obito. That makes it likely that Yagura was a kage when Obito was in Chunin Exams, and it was only a couple years after that when Obito meets Madara.

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