Tsukuyomi and why Tsunade can break it

[TrueNarutoFan3000]

Its like they don't think or something... X_X if tsukuyomi was just a 1 hit k.o move Madara would've won easily. X_X but there are ways to get out of it. People just can't realize this for some reason.

YUP

 

[Koha]

1. you can break Tsukuyomi by altering your chakra.. its normal genjutsu nothing big. Same shit applies.

2. Senju have shown to be Genjutsu experts

3. IF noone besides the uchiha can get of it.... i wonder how Hashirama did

It's already known not to be just a regular Genjutsu, since the user (well only Itachi's shown mastery) is the one that alters your very perception of time, leaving your body unable to respond since the results are near instantaneous, leaving you physically unable to break it. By time you're able to stabilize both your mind and body in such a way you can use a break technique the Jutsu itself is over and damage has been done. Your mind is pretty much ripped from confusion from being in two different states of times. You gotta use a little bit of physics for that scenario..

Which Senju have shown to be Genjutsu experts? Well... Any Shinobi can be a Genjutsu expert. Look at Kurenai.

And I don't understand your last statement?


Edit: Ohhhh, I understand your last statement now... Your grammar lost me, but how do you know he used Tsukuyomi? We've only seen slight instances of their fight...... So, you can't say anything about that until Kishi reveals the battle between the two.

 

[Koha]

Its like they don't think or something... X_X if tsukuyomi was just a 1 hit k.o move Madara would've won easily. X_X but there are ways to get out of it. People just can't realize this for some reason.

Well looking at Madara's style of fighting, he'd rather not use Tsukuyomi. Madara likes to flaunt his power and use OVERWHELMING force.

 

[TrueNarutoFan3000]

I'm glad you aren't upset , lolz


Thank you <3 I just +rep you for this. I appreciate it!

No problem, I just love to see people with insight, logics and great debating skills

 

[Slug Princess Tsunade]

Yeah, I think the same.

- she doesnt have sharingan
- she isnt an Uchiha,

but:

- she is a Senju- she has Senju DNA (!!!)
- she is the best medical nin
- she has the best chakra controll
- she has strong willpower ( able to fight with 2 susanno swords in her abdomen, able to talk and summon while she is cut in half, etc)
- she is intelligent
- she can cure the affects of Tsukuyomi


And Hashirama fought with Madara. And I bet he used Tsukuyomi. And still, Hashirama outmatched him. How? He had perfect chakra controll and strong willpower just like her granddaughter.

 

[KingHashirama]

It's already known not to be just a regular Genjutsu, since the user (well only Itachi's shown mastery) is the one that alters your very perception of time, leaving your body unable to respond since the results are near instantaneous, leaving you physically unable to break it. By time you're able to stabilize both your mind and body in such a way you can use a break technique the Jutsu itself is over and damage has been done. Your mind is pretty much ripped from confusion from being in two different states of times. You gotta use a little bit of physics for that scenario..

Which Senju have shown to be Genjutsu experts? Well... Any Shinobi can be a Genjutsu expert. Look at Kurenai.

And I don't understand your last statement?


Edit: Ohhhh, I understand your last statement now... Your grammar lost me, but how do you know he used Tsukuyomi? We've only seen slight instances of their fight...... So, you can't say anything about that until Kishi reveals the battle between the two.

How are you gonna talk about tsukuyomi when you don't know how its obtained.. smh. ANYONE with a susano'o automatically has Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu.

It is still a genjutsu... it can be stopped with the chakra flow disruption. Yes it is a complicated one.. but the concept is the same.

Looking at how desperate Madara was to win that fight..... he had to use it. He was a underdog in that fight.. He didn't have overwhelming force.....The one with OW force would be Hashirama in that fight.

 

[TrueNarutoFan3000]

How are you gonna talk about tsukuyomi when you don't know how its obtained.. smh. ANYONE with a susano'o automatically has Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu.

It is still a genjutsu... it can be stopped with the chakra flow disruption. Yes it is a complicated one.. but the concept is the same.

Looking at how desperate Madara was to win that fight..... he had to use it. He was a underdog in that fight.. He didn't have overwhelming force.....The one with OW force would be Hashirama in that fight.

If I knew how to rep I would

 

[Koha]

How are you gonna talk about tsukuyomi when you don't know how its obtained.. smh. ANYONE with a susano'o automatically has Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu.

It is still a genjutsu... it can be stopped with the chakra flow disruption. Yes it is a complicated one.. but the concept is the same.

Looking at how desperate Madara was to win that fight..... he had to use it. He was a underdog in that fight.. He didn't have overwhelming force.....The one with OW force would be Hashirama in that fight.

What are you talking about? ... Just follow the Japanese myth about Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi along with Susano'o. (Those three are connected so of course) Don't make assumptions on what I know. Because I follow the story as well..

Of course that rule applies but it's still far too instantaneous for the body to react to it before it's over in real time.... I'm not saying it can't be broken, I'm saying the Jutsu is executed and completed before the break technique can be executed.

And now, you're just assuming... Yes, we know Hashirama won. But that's why Madara used Kurama.. He probably didn't use it, I'm not gonna say he used it because it seemed like what he should do, since there's many things people in the Narutoverse COULD'VE done, but didn't. When I see a release of the manga where Hashirama vs. Madara, where Madara is using Tsukuyomi THEN we'll talk about that. Until then, back it up with fact, not speculation.

 

[Koha]

If I knew how to rep I would

The bottom, where the star is under their reply I believe.

 

[AnbuSasuke]

1. you can break Tsukuyomi by altering your chakra.. its normal genjutsu nothing big. Same shit applies.

2. Senju have shown to be Genjutsu experts

3. IF noone besides the uchiha can get of it.... i wonder how Hashirama did

True,true but is the question whether or not tsukuyomi can be broken because if it is we know that it can as sasukes own has been broken multiple times. But if the question is whether or not itachis tsukuyomi can be broken then that is another story as we know that his is on another level being instantaneous and all. remember the key is being able to manipulate ones perception of time. Further more no one really witnessed the fight b/w madara and hashi so you can't really assume hashi broke it. For all we know he may have just have healed himself of the effects after the fact and was able to go on and win the battle. Its even possible madara didn't use tsukuyomi at all. any scenario is possible so its pointless to speculate.

 

[Chatte]

But did actually someone tried to understand how Tsunade's techniques worked so you can understand why, even if she's caught by genjutsu, it won't affect her?

 

[SashaUchiha]

Tsunade can actually break any genjutsu not by medical terms but by chackra control. I'm sure you all know the only way to break Tsukuyomi (Stated by Jiraiya himself) is either by not making eye contact with the sharingan user or by perfect chakra control. Therefore Tsunade would be able to get out of it since she is the only character left in the series with absolute perfect chakra control. The later is proved since she's the only one to control a Yin seal which is a forgotten talent of the Uzumaki clan just like the sharingan is an innate talent for Uchihas. Tsunade's chakra levels are monstrous levels. She can control huge amounts of chakra and release a PURE chakra nature Seal which would destroy any other user without the ability of controlling a chakra based seal which was only possible for Uzumakis.

So yes, theoretically Tsunade can break it. She healed Kakashi anad Sasuke of Itachi's Tsukuyomi mental effects. Also, we saw how orochimaru cut his hand to get out of genjutsu.You can always bite your own tongue. Bleeding or any real pain stops genjutsu.
Tsunade takes this.

I hope @Chatte comes to support this point sooner rather than later.

Agree.

Ok let's see here
-She doesn't have Uchiha blood/DNA
-She doesn't have a sharingan

Based on that alone your theory is invalid,but rep +1 for trying

Think about your points when making them.

You avoid Tsukuyomi in many ways but once you've been trapped by it you can understand time distortion by being aware that you are in a genjutsu and through perfect chakra control counter the effects in your head. Tsunade is an strong-willed woman who never gives up. The way she have to get out of Tsukuyomy is easy: Just outlast enough time to understand it or release her Yin seal so that she surpasses the amount of chakra the sharingan user is using in the genjutsu, therefore making it impossible for Itachi to control her mind.
I'm just saying, it can go either way,,, but Tsunade have the best chances to get out of it. Itachi's words "every single jutsu have a weakness"
..... so, why do you Uchiha fans go against the genious Uchiha's words? Why don't you just accept it is jus another jutsu and that therefore it can be countered? ... Itachi is not the only great shinobi yo know? Not all the rest are fodders just because he has Tsukuyomi and Amaterassu. Any fight can go either way, just depends on the passion either fighter puts in.
Just keep that in mind... the fanboysm is not letting you be fair, honest and think clearly about this debates.

:y

How would it not affect her at all? Tsukuyomi specializes in mental damage... Show me a scan where it has been stated or seen that tsunade can heal mental damage in an instant rendering tsukuyomi useless.

I can see where you are coming from, because of her excellent chakra control and her outside source of chakra theoretically she can break out of most genjutsus... But not tsukuyomi, a genjutsu that last only one second real time while dealing days.of torture in the illusion itself. Only a sharingan user can fight the mental effects.of the illusion.

How does a Sharingan user fight the mental effects? And a Senju can't do that?

Guys. guys. Tsukyomi works given the extent of the chakra flow that the user does it in the enemy system. On someone normal who doesn't have Sharingan and who doesn't possess the skills that Tsunade has, it works, but given her mastery in the human body, it won't.
Let me explain you why.

What does Tsukuyomi do? It takes your chakra which flow throught the tubes that are connected to your cells and through shock waves it sends different commands to your brain.
Mind is working dependable on how the brain works. If your shock waves dictate you to jump in one feet in your mind you jump in one feet, because these are the signals your brain is receiving.

Genjutsu (generally speaking, meaning it includes them all, even Tsukuyomi) is created when a ninja extends their chakra flow through the cerebral nervous system of their opponent to control their minds chakra, thereby affecting their five senses. Genjutsu techniques manipulate the flow of chakra in the victim's brain, thus causing a disruption in their senses.

Who has been showed to fix these irregularities if not Tsunade, as I said up there? Given her technique, any type of damage done to her brain in order to do damage to the body, given the techique it would be impossible because it would counter it. Basically any damage that comes, either mental or pshysical, the jutsu will make it ineffective. It's a link between the jutsu and the body. As in the technique is programmed to heal/resolve any irregularities that it feels in connection to the body.

Perfectly put... just read this, the people who are still arguing about it. It isn't so difficult to understand...

I agree with the Jiraiya statement, taijutsu with 1 hit knock out power is diffrent from taijutsu with multiply taijutsu's incorporated into it. For instances can Tsuande pick up a nunchuck and best Guy with it no, can she pick up Lee's Tonfa and best him with it no.
Tsuande incorporates strength into her taijutsu, Guy and Lee incorporates speed into theirs but overall they're better because they are well rounded, Guy has tremendous strength too but not like Tsunade, each of them has been praised as masters of taijutsu's too.
Totally agreed

I disagree. Yes she doesn't have Uchiha DNA but she is both Senju and Uzimaki, and the Uzimaki's share both clans ( Uchiha/Senju) DNA so she has a diluted amount. But she also is able to control her chakra on a level that in itself is godlike being able to use the yin seal which no one else can because they lack the ability. It's okay to be a fan of the Uchiha but be more subjective and use rationale, tsukuyomi isn't the ultimate genjutsu so as Itachi said it has it's weaknesses, a medical nin like tsunade could exploit those weaknesses because she's seen what it does and how it affects you; do you honestly think she wouldn't come up with a way to combat that tech after treating Kakashi and the emo kid for it?

Leave him alone!

1. you can break Tsukuyomi by altering your chakra.. its normal genjutsu nothing big. Same shit applies.

2. Senju have shown to be Genjutsu experts

3. IF noone besides the uchiha can get of it.... i wonder how Hashirama did

Point

 

[TrueNarutoFan3000]

The bottom, where the star is under their reply I believe.

I don't think I'm at that level yet in order to rep

 

[Slug Princess Tsunade]

I don't think I'm at that level yet in order to rep

If you cant rep, I'll rep you

 

[TrueNarutoFan3000]

If you cant rep, I'll rep you

Ook, I love debating so we should have another sometime

 

[ITACHItheINVINCIBLE7]

no one can break out of tsukuyomi apart from of the same bloodline.tsunade wont even last a sec if itachi tortures as he can make torture to a new level.or uses amaterasu in reality while tsunade in tsukuyomi and he can even use totsuka.
so tsunade or anyone who is not an uchiha can break tsukuyomi not even perfect jinchuriki.

 

[Slug Princess]

didn't read
obvious hater is obvious
tsukoyomi>>>all sanins

itachi>>>minato

???

 

[iSpeak]

Tsukuyomi (Itachi's atleast) is instant on the outside world. The only way of breaking it is breaking the illusion within the illusion itself which only the Sharingan can do, and you need to be a true Uchiha to see through Itachi's Tsukuyomi. Tsunade doesn't have a Sharingan and isn't from the Uchiha clan.

 

[Chatte]

Perfectly put... just read this, the people who are still arguing about it. It isn't so difficult to understand...

Aaah, they won't, lol.
Thanks, anyway. You know and for what too.

 

[Gooner4life]

She could break the vast majority of genjutsu through her great chakra control, but not Tsukuyomi only because of the short time span it takes place under, I think that time is something only a sharingan can counter, healing the after effects of genjutsu is different, I think she could recover from Tsukuyomi without too much trouble.