[Theory] Madara didn't give his eyes to Nagato + much more

thegame

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This is gonna be a bit long, but if you make it to the end, I will promise you an ice cream :D

And yes you might wanna read it before you flame. Although this may seem a bit far fetched, I'm getting tired of those people posting theories with 3 senteces about some eye issue that has been discussed a year ago, just because what everybody believe has been "confirmed". Or so we think, however, this theory wont be one of those.

So where to start. Yes I'm gonna start with a debate that is far from new. Edo Madara has rinnengan. Although we don't know for sure how Edo tensei works, there is most evidence that the state a person is awakaned in, is the state before his death. For now lets assume this is how it is, cause if not, my theory is rubbish, lol.

So the first thing I will be looking for is some way to explain how Madara was awakened with his own eyes, and how Nagato could get rinnengan. First lets look back in time, sadly I'm too borred to look it up in the manga, but we all probably remember Nagatos flashback from when he was a child and his parrents were killed by Konoha shinobi. They said something like: "Oups they were just regular people", well it's here:
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This must mean Nagatos parrents were not Uzumaki, and thus probably not Nagatos real parrents. It could be very likely that his parrents knew war was coming, and therefore send him away from the village to save his life. However, I don't think so.

Now most of this is guessing, but it could be possible that Madara had something to with it. We've heard little about the destruction of Uzushiogakure, but the final destruction was probably shortly after Kushina came to Konoha, but we also heard there was war and enemies against Uzushiogakure all the time.

Now this is where it becomes really far fetched, but a lot of people has somewhat accepted that Madara was the 3rd Mizukage, or somehow controlling the Kirigakure through someone else or civil war maybe. At least it is what most "approved" pages say. Now let's take a look at a map of the Naruto world:

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We see the Whirlpool country to the right of Konoha and further to the right we see the Water country, which of course harbors Uzushiogakure (Whirlpool country) and Kirigakure (Water country). So the most obvious enemy for Uzushiogakure could very well have been Kirigakure. Also we know very little of Kirigakures participation in any of the great wars, but clearly they must be one of the 5 great villages for a reason (not only cause they had a tailed beast), so they must have done something. And 2 islands being in war without the others noticing (due to their own wars) could be likely. All we know is that Mū and him killed eachother, and that was probably during the 1st great war.

Well I said too much, but my point is, if Madara had something to do with Kirigakures political affairs, and thus provoked wars against Uzushiogakure, he might have grasped the chance to steal a child with a strong chakra from Uzushiogakure. He may also just have done it outside of war, I don't know, but for his current master plan to work the destruction of Uzushiogakure wouldn't be bad either.

So lets just assume Nagato was abducted by Madara, he was placed in some kind of care, Madara may have paid some regular people off to take care of him, used clones, illusion, whatever, it's not really important, but now the interesting part will come (finally). We already saw many hints and pointers in the manga indicating a connection between the Uzumaki clan and the SO6P, which could mean the Uzumaki clan is close related to the SO6P, and hereby I mean their sealing techniques are the same, and so is their life span, and great chakra. Lets assume Madara knew this.

I think the SO6P didn't want anybody else to obtain his powerful eyes, so he made it so that it would be "impossible", or so he thought, but he must have made some sort of "protection" to prevent people like Madara from trying. My suggestion is that it would either cost you your life, or it would make you blind - kind of like Izanagi, which would make it pointless to try.

Also we have seen Nagato switching from rinnengan to normal eyes as a child. I believe this is possible because he had it in both his eyes. If you've noticed Obito now with just 1 eye in Madaras cave hasn't removed his sharingan yet, even though he is so damaged that he shouldn't have any chakra left. This goes for many other examples as well. Like the scene where shisui wants itachi to have his remaining eye, and kakashi as well is a good example. Here is shisui seen with 1 eye:
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But we also never saw Nagato use sharingan, so there is a chance for another theory, where Madara never gave his eyes to Nagato. He knew what it would take for a person to obtain the rinnengan. He also knew that it was possible for an Uzumaki to revive them with a certain amount of help, lets say the uzumaki has close bonds to senju, so if Madara were to give some of his "power" to Nagato it would become possible to awaken the rinnengan, maybe the same way as with MS, by feeling the loss of someone close to him (hint: his "parremts" death).

So Madara did this, and then he awakened the rinnengan in his own eyes as well, however, it would make him blind. So in order to avoid this, he had to "kill" himself. This way he figured that if he was revived in this state of his "death" he could obtain the rinnengan and endless power to rule the world. He gave Nagato the power of the rinnengan only. But Madara isn't dead now, why is that? Well the life giving powers of Hashirama that he stole is what keeps him alive right now. So his body is probably dead, but his soul can't leave because the plant keeps pouring chakra into it. It may even be an artificial body, however, that isn't important right now.

So this last part was a bit too much I guess, it's hard for myself to believe it actually, but it's just a theory, lol. Anyway I got some more to support it. For this we need to go back and look at the map. Let's say he actually was gonna go blind, and that he had to kill himself before that would happen. He would need a place very close to Nagatos house. Lets go back to the map of the Naruto world. Actually the Kannabi bridge where Obito fell through the rocks and ended up in Madaras cave, is in the grass country, which is placed next to Ame which is where Nagato lived. So this could support it a bit. Although I know it's still a long shot, but it's been a while since I came with any theories.

In general we can point out some main factors:

  • Madara was involved with Kirigakure possibly as the 3rd Mizukage.
  • Kirigakure was involved with the destruction of Uzushiogakure.
  • Madara abducted Nagato, and staged the death scene of his parrents after making the awakening of rinnengan possible.
  • Madara turned blind from awakening rinnengan in himself, but killed himself to make revival with rinnengan possible.
  • Nagato lived close to the Kannabi bridge.
Now if I were going to complete it entirely I should somehow find argument for how Madara would make Nagato revive him. To do this Madara obviously had to stay alive after giving the rinnengan to Nagato, which is also why he would need new sharingans in his eyes. These he probably collected some time ago. It may also be possible he had someone else helping him before Obito, but this is impossible to argue for at the moment. So I wont think too deep into it. If I were to give a qualified guess, it would be that Madara created Zetsu to keep an eye on Nagato, and to make sure of his revival that way, but he realised Obito would be better for the job, after he manipulated him correctly.

Anyway if you made it this far, it must have been a bit interesting, which is all I wanted. Have a good day. :ice:

Oh yeah btw, if all this was true, I would like to see Narutos reaction when Madara tells him that Nagatos entire life is a lie, doesn't matter how much chakra he used, he'd turn to boss mode :cool:

PS. I have no idea how awakening him with rinnei tensei could actually work, but there might just be a way, so don't use that argument to break down my theory, I already know U_U but there is many other ways to do it ;)
 
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OnPoint

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Your initial premise that Edo Tensei definately brings you back how you died is false; Sasori was brought back in his real body, Itachi was not brought back blind etc. I also don't understand how you've deduced that Nagato's parents were not Uzumaki - all it said was that they were not shinobi :/
 

thegame

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Your initial premise that Edo Tensei definately brings you back how you died is false; Sasori was brought back in his real body, Itachi was not brought back blind etc. I also don't understand how you've deduced that Nagato's parents were not Uzumaki - all it said was that they were not shinobi :/
Well none the less it wouldn't matter much, but you could ask yourself the question, why would they run around in the hidden rain country searching for food, when the Fire country is much closer to their original birth place, and they would be much safer there, since the hidden rain country was mainly a war place. And how many shinobi with the strength of Nagatos level has regular parrents? You're right, none that we know of.
 

Simple Math

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well it haven't been confirmed that he gave them to nagato - but people say that because its the most likely theory...
i cant think of anyone else myself.. but anything can happend in kishi's world

you came up with good points tho
 

Negative Knight

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As a whole i don't think you're entire theory will come to fruition but certain elements of it are extremely interesting including Kirigakure's involvement in the destruction of the Uzumakis, Nagato being kidnapped by Madara and etc.

However there are times where you go to far fetched including Nagato's parents not being his real ones.

Nonetheless, +Rep
 
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really... like really??! after this chapter.. last week chapter. where madara says to obito. why did you revive me in this state.. where is nagato... madara saying gave his real eyes to someone. tobi saying while using the name of madara said he ''gave'' nagato the rinnegan.. after soo much chapters you made this thread saying other wise wow... just wow
 

iSpeak

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Nagato has never switched from Rinnegan to normal eyes as far as im aware. Cool theory anyway, though I disagree with it.
 
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OnPoint

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Well none the less it wouldn't matter much, but you could ask yourself the question, why would they run around in the hidden rain country searching for food, when the Fire country is much closer to their original birth place, and they would be much safer there, since the hidden rain country was mainly a war place. And how many shinobi with the strength of Nagatos level has regular parrents? You're right, none that we know of.
Who were Madara's parents? Or Hashirama's? I don't recall them being born to god-like parents. Having regular parents does not limit your ability; this would be especially true here since it's very likely Nagato was just given his eyes (which was practically the source of all his power). He had the Uzumaki longevity but the Rinnegan was what made him truely powerful - so saying it's unlikely those were his real parents because he was so strong is quite irrelevant really.

There's nothing which indicates their motives behind moving to Amegakure. In truth, everything points towards nagato having transplanted eyes.
  • (through Muu) that the is the natural progression of the Sharingan, and Nagato failed to show any Sharingan techniques
  • Therefore, claiming Nagato awakened the Rinnegan is like saying someone can awaken the Mangekyou Sharingan without obtaining the 3 tomoe first
  • Nagato did not show the ability to switch his dojutsu off, even after his
 

9tailsJinchuuriki

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I have learned that we should take all theories into account( well not the dumb stuff), even if it seems unlikely. There may be some truth in this theory, some seem possible. So I'll give you +rep
 

thegame

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Who were Madara's parents? Or Hashirama's? I don't recall them being born to god-like parents. Having regular parents does not limit your ability; this would be especially true here since it's very likely Nagato was just given his eyes (which was practically the source of all his power). He had the Uzumaki longevity but the Rinnegan was what made him truely powerful - so saying it's unlikely those were his real parents because he was so strong is quite irrelevant really.

There's nothing which indicates their motives behind moving to Amegakure. In truth, everything points towards nagato having transplanted eyes.
  • (through Muu) that the is the natural progression of the Sharingan, and Nagato failed to show any Sharingan techniques
  • Therefore, claiming Nagato awakened the Rinnegan is like saying someone can awaken the Mangekyou Sharingan without obtaining the 3 tomoe first
  • Nagato did not show the ability to switch his dojutsu off, even after his
Still you can only lose the discussion about his parrents. Those whoms parrents we know nothing about, we can only assume they were shinobi as well. I never said the parrents had to be god-like shinobis, but at least they should be shinobi. From what we know Nagatos "parrents" weren't. That is why I question it. Most people belonging to a clan are all shinobi, or at least one of the genders are. Take the Akimichi for instance, which is the oldest shinobi clan in Konoha. There is definitly something to this. Not knowing about thier motives to go to rain, well who the **** would go there with a child during war. That is why I believe they aren't his real parrents.
 

thegame

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really... like really??! after this chapter.. last week chapter. where madara says to obito. why did you revive me in this state.. where is nagato... madara saying gave his real eyes to someone. tobi saying while using the name of madara said he ''gave'' nagato the rinnegan.. after soo much chapters you made this thread saying other wise wow... just wow
I know this very well, which is why I said myself I don't quite believe everything in the theory, but Madara also said he died shortly after awakening them, and even Obito said he "gave" Nagato the eyes. Kishi may just want to troll us again, which is why I needed something extraordinary in this theory.
And besides, Madara said he entrusted his original eyes with someone else. Even if it's highly unlikely he may just mean that Nagato is supposed to revive him with his original eyes when the right time comes. Recently we learned that Kishi wants to make an unpredictable story line, which means we have to predict the most unpredictable happenings, and this surely would be. Don't get me wrong though, I just think it is too obvious that Madara should have implanted his eyes into Nagato, but it's so obvious that if it was really the case Kishi would just have told us right away, but yet he keeps some mysteriious aura around it, and I asked myself: why?
 
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