[Theory] Madara didn't give his eyes to Nagato + much more

InGyeong

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Overall good job! :)
convincing arguments in many points,
like that you refer to facts like geographics,
would explain Kisame-Madara connection and much more.

I read it all and I did not think " :sy: " for even a second.

Still I dont approve to your plot construction in total
because of the same things others already pointed out
and I especially
miss (in)visible connections to Oro/Kabuto, Tobi, Sasuke&Itachi and the goal of Tsukuyomi.

(But this I miss for almost all eyes exchange theories. :shrug: )
 

thegame

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Overall good job! :)
convincing arguments in many points,
like that you refer to facts like geographics,
would explain Kisame-Madara connection and much more.

I read it all and I did not think " :sy: " for even a second.

Still I dont approve to your plot construction in total
because of the same things others already pointed out
and I especially
miss (in)visible connections to Oro/Kabuto, Tobi, Sasuke&Itachi and the goal of Tsukuyomi.

(But this I miss for almost all eyes exchange theories. :shrug: )
Well you are actually right I missed connection to Oro/Kabuto, although Kabuto was born too late to have any influence with Madara, imo.
However, it's widely known that Oro did some work regarding Kirigakure, for instance regarding Kimimaru, but it was also at some island close to Kiri he had a lab if I remember correctly from Ankos flash back I think (not sure though, and too borred to find it.)

As for the rest, I mainly focused this theory on Nagato, and how he aquired the rinnengan - as well as what happened to Madara at the time, which is why I left out Itachi / Oro, but I'm pretty sure Oro knew about Obito, but I doubt Itachi did, since he even refered to him as Madara when they met, but yet he was more determined to stop the edo tensei when he found out the truth, so it's hard to tell.

Anyway when I sum it all up, one other question comes to my mind, why don't Obito just use the rinnengan revive Madara? I guess he got a bit selfish, and didn't wanna lose his own life for it. Maybe he wants to use Sasuke to complete the Tsukuyomi instead, I don't know, but it would be a completely different theory :)
 

InGyeong

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Yes, I think the same: Obito has no direct intent to help Madara with anything.
As I posted in another thread since yesterday I took into consideration that Obito wants to use the Rinnegan for Rin.
And since this morning I even started thinking that Rin could be the one who knows everything, which Oro and Sasuke are now looking for.
We have no hint on her current whereabouts, right? And there are not many persons left who could know something.
As you said, I am pretty sure also: Oro knew about Madara - Tobi, because Kabutomaru recognized Tobi as a fake Madara in an instant (or even knew before).
And for Madara-Nagato connection I think:
Nagato really was just the only person left who was born with the Rinnegan.
(In the poetic/prosa way that would also be in a smoother correlation with the impression Jiraiya first had of Nagato: the special child and blabla…)
Maybe Oro or Madara or both just found it out and where observing him, just waiting for the right opportunity.
This is highly supported by the geographical circumstances you pointed out.
However we still do not know: What was the Uchiha massacre really about? For Itachi its clear, but Madara or Tobi, one must have helped Itachi. For what reason?

Now I have some questions about details which I think are important for further discussing, and I do not like to open a thread for this so I ask it here:
1. Who is older Nagato or Obito?
2. At the moment : who is possessing which and whose eyes? And these eyes for what can they be used and for what not? I am totally confused.
Does somebody has a good overview of this? Maybe an excel tablet… hahaha 
 

thegame

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Yes, I think the same: Obito has no direct intent to help Madara with anything.
As I posted in another thread since yesterday I took into consideration that Obito wants to use the Rinnegan for Rin.
And since this morning I even started thinking that Rin could be the one who knows everything, which Oro and Sasuke are now looking for.
We have no hint on her current whereabouts, right? And there are not many persons left who could know something.
As you said, I am pretty sure also: Oro knew about Madara - Tobi, because Kabutomaru recognized Tobi as a fake Madara in an instant (or even knew before).
And for Madara-Nagato connection I think:
Nagato really was just the only person left who was born with the Rinnegan.
(In the poetic/prosa way that would also be in a smoother correlation with the impression Jiraiya first had of Nagato: the special child and blabla…)
Maybe Oro or Madara or both just found it out and where observing him, just waiting for the right opportunity.
This is highly supported by the geographical circumstances you pointed out.
However we still do not know: What was the Uchiha massacre really about? For Itachi its clear, but Madara or Tobi, one must have helped Itachi. For what reason?

Now I have some questions about details which I think are important for further discussing, and I do not like to open a thread for this so I ask it here:
1. Who is older Nagato or Obito?
2. At the moment : who is possessing which and whose eyes? And these eyes for what can they be used and for what not? I am totally confused.
Does somebody has a good overview of this? Maybe an excel tablet… hahaha 
Yes I like the part about Rin, though I doubt it's the one Sasuke is looking for, to be honest I think that would make an entirely different debate, but I still think we need another hint from Kishi on this.
It would be awsome if Obito somehow turned to Narutos side, and Sasuke went with Madara. That would one unpredictable fight, but again unlikely. But Sasuke joining the fight is almost certain - I hope :) About Oro I can't predict what he will do next, but he might stay out of the war, as he said.

Regarding your question, Nagato is much older than Obito, or well he is same age as Minato. Since his parents were killed in the 2nd war, and he was starting akatsuki before the 3rd war (with Yahiko). And we know Obito fell to Madaras cave in the 3rd war. Also Minato was trained by Jiraya at about the same age as when he left Nagato, yahiko, konan.

About the eyes, yes that would indeed be good to summarize it up, lol, specially since so much debate about has been going. Some even say Itachi has Madaras eyes, which seems unlogical to me though.. Nonetheless I think there is only 1 set of Rinnengans, but they don't seem to have Madaras sharingan powers, cause if they had why wouldn't Obito use susanoo etc? The rinnengans from the other paths of pain - I believe they just appear through the chakra stakes.

And there are just too many sharingans to count xd

Besides I made a small discussion on the connection between Madara and Yahiko, since Obito could never have known Yahiko. It's here:
I have some strange feeling that oro was involved with Madara and the beginning of akatsuki, but who knows :)
 

shri3kbat

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Your initial premise that Edo Tensei definately brings you back how you died is false; Sasori was brought back in his real body, Itachi was not brought back blind etc. I also don't understand how you've deduced that Nagato's parents were not Uzumaki - all it said was that they were not shinobi :/
But Sasori was dead. His puppet with his heart in wasn't really Sasori.
And it's not a far stretch to say Itachi's recently turned blind eyes could see because he was an edo which might have healed him
 
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InGyeong

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:rolleyes:
Hey, if Nagato was so much older than Obito this will bring some turnings into some theories.
:ghehe::
However the moment I have time I will check the databooks here and look for more info on all the eyes. xd

And now: I just recognized something.
I am such an idiot!!! :sy:
Of course Oro knew Nagato (and the other 2) all the time because he met them with Jiraiya and Tsunade!!!:kagutsuchi:
 

thegame

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Yes it's interesting that Obito said he was the one who made Yahiko start Akatsuki - claiming it was his organization to begin with. But he wasn't alive at the time, so he must've been talking for Madara. But Madara couldn't have been in any condition to do that, so who did he use, and how? Most likely Orochimaru. It would explain how Oro got Hashis DNA as well. They probably made a deal, since Madara had Hashiramas DNA, he just wanted a favor in return.
 

Draxus

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Man... why do a bunch of people keep posting Nagato switch from regular eyes to Ren-eyes. This has never been shown in the manga!
 

InGyeong

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I never did understand that theory "Madara gave his eyes to Nagato" either.
Why can he just not be born with it?

And besides:

You must be registered for see images

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Sorry I am a big fan of him and can't stop! :ghehe:

Well seriously: why was this "Madara gave the Rinnegan to Nagato" - theory even created?
 
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