Tobi/ObitoTheories: What, why and how and then some

[Koha]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Which part of ' the latest chapter proves kishi doesnt gaf about the databooks' dont you understand? Is this really too much for your tiny cranium to process? Lol and now your butthurt enough to neg rep me as well.

Smh... If he didn't care about the Databook he would never had put it into production in the first place.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

Anybody notice the panels with Minato and one panel of a power line with what appears to be transformer but may actually be a scroll. Two panels of Minato with his special FTG kunai, another of Minato and Hiruzen in front of two oversized televisions connected to one another. Causes me to recall how when Akatsuki commune, it comes across as poor television reception. Also causes me to notice Tobito's war fan looks like a big antenna. Clues? Trollbait? Who knows?

 

[Downforwardx]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

I see people just don't want to burst out of the delusion that Tobi is someone else than Obito. Well this is to help you face your denial, Tobi is Obito and here's a few of your claimed "plotholes" debunked.


"Obito was 14 during the Konoha attack"
I'm yet to see any true evidence about him being 14 during the Konoha attack, and I really don't see where the hell people pulled this crap out of. Anti-Obito theorists just made this up to have the whole timeline plot hole, so I don't see it as a valid argument.

"Obito could not have fought Minato with his combat experience"
Obito did not defeat Minato, he got his ass kicked hard. He didn't even manage to land a blow on Minato. So don't talk as if they were on the same levels.

"Obito could not have summoned the Kyuubi at his age"
Again, there's no evidence about him being 14, but let's assume your nonsense is true and he was 14, so what? Naruto has been cheating his way out of fights with the Kyuubi ever since he was 13. And at 16 he's mastered it to a whole different level than Obito could ever have. When you're a Uchiha and know the right jutsu to do it, what's stopping you from doing so?

"Obito could not have manipulated the Mizukage"
We have very, very little information about this, and everyone's been jumping into the conclusion that the Mizukage was under a genjutsu. But last I checked the only person in the entire shinobi world capable of manipulating people to such an extent is Uchiha Shisui, and his eyes ended up in Itachi and Danzo's possession, not Obito's. What if Obito simply had him blackmailed? We don't know anything about this so this shouldn't even be an argument for any side.

"Obito could not have given Rinnegan to Nagato"
It wasn't Obito who gave him Rinnegan, it was Madara himself before he died.

"Obito could not have helped Yahiko start the Akatsuki"
People think Tobi started the Akatsuki with Yahiko because they believe he's Madara's secret assistant. Well sorry to burst your bubble but Madara's almost certainly been referring to Zetsu as his assistant all this time. We know Madara got his hands on Hashirama DNA, and it's easy to assume he just somehow got Zetsu made out of it. Zetsu got entrusted the mission of recruiting members and finding someone like Obito to take over later on.

"Obito would not have turned evil"
Because "turning" evil isn't a part of these series, I mean Sasuke, Nagato, Konan, and a few others didn't just decide to have their justice done against Konoha. Unless you watch this through Kishimoto's eyes where Naruto is the ultimate form of justice, there's no good and evil in these series, Konohagakure are also jerks who've been abusing of plot no jutsu since the dawn of time to dictate their rules over others, including a clan of their own, the Uchiha. There's plenty of reasons to "turn evil".

"Obito was dead"
Well clearly he's not so dead given he's walking around right now. Orochimaru got killed and then sealed for eternity in a sword that can never be recovered again (due to Itachi being dead), yet he just walked back into the series as if it were is daily routine. So why are you surprised that Obito somehow survived that boulder?

"Obito was unskilled"
So was Naruto and how he's completely overpowered.

... if you got any more ideas bring them in, getting bored now.

EDIT: Here's some more

Obito could not know about Hashirama and Madara
Why the hell not? Everyone who's curious enough does. Besides, he just got all he needed to know from Zetsu. Everything Madara knew, Zetsu knows. Everything Zetsu knows, Obito knows. It's that simple.

kakshi gaiden. find out how old kakashi is then find out how long ago the kyubi attack was.

Plus you dont give answers you just say that there is no plot holes. This post is a failure.

 

[Koha]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Obito connects with sasuke because he once loved and ended up carrying hatred because of his love in the end.
He connects with naruto because they shared similar traits paths and dreams as children, but obito's path is the flipsise to naruto's
He connects with kakashi for deep friendship and emotional reasons and is also the man who changed his life
He grew up with gai asuma shikaku chouza Rin kurenai anko etc.
He relates to Sakura for being the black sheep of his team and feeling useless at times
He feels like he gave his life for his comrades which was in vein since they didn't keep their promises anyway ( which he mentioned to naruto at the land of iron ) and breeds a hatred of konoha, feeling them being responsible for his twist of fate and has been manipulated by madara and his pain into obtaining a sick kind of peace.

He connects deeply with the main characters and the ideas displayed in shippuden overall, you're ignorant to miss this. He is the ultimate 180, flipside when pure becomes tainted, to change lives for the better yet put pasin and suffering in them, to love and hate, and most importantly to want to be a protector of peace but become a harbinger of war. He is the best choice hands down explain to me if izuna would offer all of this. Sure izuna and shish were powerful interesting and we're all curious but they don't bring what obito does plot wise.

+Rep. Thanks for bringing that into light. Respected.

 

[Knights Saotome]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Thank you.

The OP is very ignorant and has provided no explanations, just his own theorys/plotholes to cover up the many he mentioned above. Almost no facts relating to the actual manga. "All plotholes explained...with my own theories"

I'm not counting out Obito, but he died saving his friends life, so I don't see why he wants to kill him now. If he is starting all this for a girls death he is an idiot like almost all uchiha, blowing things out of proportion and crying about how bad there life is. The only positive I see him being Obito is his is like a combination of Sasuke and Naruto who are obviously the main 2 of the story. He's played the good guy and bad guy, I like that. I don't think anyone can get that strong that quick though, and I just can't get over that. Plus, the way he pulls some Kakarot shit is ridiculous, gets crushed by rock, becomes 10 times stronger.

didnt you also notice that the blacks chars that were supposed to be in dbz appear in the wrong manga? i swear their like black sayins powering up with lighting and crap.

 

[Koha]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

They are both underachievers.
Both are a disgrace. Naruto being a jinchuriki and Obito being a weak Uchiha.
However, both took the opposite paths.
Naruto has Senju's/Uzumaki's/Konoha's will of fire, and he strive to be the best, making him overpowered as we know him now. However, Obito has the Uchiha's curse of hatred.
Unlike the ALL the other villains who are described to be inborn geniuses and have amazing skill since there were fetuses, Obito is once an utter failure.
Obito is the mirror villain of Naruto, which would make him perfect as the bad guy.

Obito took on the will of fire... Which doesn't add to the power of the Uchiha. To his dying breath he embraced the will of fire, & we all know aside from Itachi, the power of the Uchiha is borne out of pain and hatred. Can't really compare Naruto & Obito aside from personality since he was just a fodder ninja. And Naruto was a Jinchuuriki, even untalented the Fox's power is what makes him unstoppable and feared by the unknowing. There's still no plausible explanation for Obito's survival, everyone's saying Madara saved him, but before Obito was born he transplanted his Rinnegan to Nagato meaning he knew he was dying. Other's say he activated the MS due to trauma which makes NO SENSE whatsoever, he unlocked the Sharingan for the first time and out of nowhere mastered the first stage and unlocked MS all at the same moment? ... Highly, highly unlucky. And blah, blah, blah..... .___.

 

[Knights Saotome]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

1. His age c'mon it's simple math, nuff said!

2. When kurama is extracted he recognizes "Tobis" chakra, now how exactly could he do that if kurama was transferred from jinchuriki to jinchuriki dating all the way back to the time of mito hashiramas wife?

3. If Madara awakened the Rennigan shortly before his death, and nagato would be around 40 or so than how could Tobi/Obito have given him Madaras eyes? And if that's the case how would Obito have even met Madara seeing as he would have been dead at least 10 years or so before Obito was even born...

Plot holes galore!!!!

....I'm not even getting on the whole him being Izuna thing!!!

when madrara trained obito he had a diffrent set of eyes, thats why he can switch between ems and rinniegan, or the madrara now is a path, or maybe tobi is madraras path? who knows.
also it mean he didnt die when he gave nagato rinniegan, but had transplated eyes or was blind for ten years, meybe zetsu real first puprose was to be his eyes.

 

[Supreme x Uchiha]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Obviously there is some unknown force controlling Obito's body. There is no motivation for him to turn that evil, whileas with Sasuke and Nagato there was.

Anyone who says Rin was Obito's motivation deserves a slap.
Naruto liked Sakura and she didn't like him, did he ever go berserk?

In Kakashi Chronicles, Obito was preaching to Kakashi about never leaving friends behind, and that you're scum if you do. So why would Obito just blatantly do so?

I know that there is some force or someones soul just using Obito's body as a vessel. I'm just going to wait for Chapter 600 for the explanation of this.

 

[Knights Saotome]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Obito took on the will of fire... Which doesn't add to the power of the Uchiha. To his dying breath he embraced the will of fire, & we all know aside from Itachi, the power of the Uchiha is borne out of pain and hatred. Can't really compare Naruto & Obito aside from personality since he was just a fodder ninja. And Naruto was a Jinchuuriki, even untalented the Fox's power is what makes him unstoppable and feared by the unknowing. There's still no plausible explanation for Obito's survival, everyone's saying Madara saved him, but before Obito was born he transplanted his Rinnegan to Nagato meaning he knew he was dying. Other's say he activated the MS due to trauma which makes NO SENSE whatsoever, he unlocked the Sharingan for the first time and out of nowhere mastered the first stage and unlocked MS all at the same moment? ... Highly, highly unlucky. And blah, blah, blah..... .___.

obtios shairragan is special, un like most its three tome has a power, to send his body into the other dimension. what really happened is out of instinct he used his three tome to his parts of his body, such as his lungs and s*** into the other dimension. and untill he learned how to use it he would of been stuck that way unable to die to be trap in 2 dimension, unless someone killed he wouldnt die i should say.

 

[OnPoint]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

Explain

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[Koha]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

obtios shairragan is special, un like most its three tome has a power, to send his body into the other dimension. what really happened is out of instinct he used his three tome to his parts of his body, such as his lungs and s*** into the other dimension. and untill he learned how to use it he would of been stuck that way unable to die to be trap in 2 dimension, unless someone killed he wouldnt die i should say.

Still no....
He only just activated a two tomoe Sharingan. There's no possible way he can just blow through three advances in a few hours....

The fans would go NUTS if Sasuke were to do that.

 

[Bloodytaste]

whether it rinne tensei or edo tensei if madara lost his eyes before death he will be revived without them so i assume his eyes were taken after his death just like itachi

No Edo Tensei revives every part of u like a clone back, but Rinne Tensei only brings your life back to your original body.

If Madara thought he was braught back by Rinne Tensei, he would instantly knew that it cant be Rinne Tensei, cuz he has his still his Eyes, this means he died with his eyes, without giving them away!
Or can anyone explain me now, how Madara is such a fool, if he knew he gave away his eyes?

 

[Mr PLATINUM]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

just another way of looking at the tobi/obito thing.

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[Amelius]

No Edo Tensei revives every part of u like a clone back, but Rinne Tensei only brings your life back to your original body.

If Madara thought he was braught back by Rinne Tensei, he would instantly knew that it cant be Rinne Tensei, cuz he has his still his Eyes, this means he died with his eyes, without giving them away!
Or can anyone explain me now, how Madara is such a fool, if he knew he gave away his eyes?

Can we not have another drawn out debate on how Edo Tensei works, this has been done countless times.

As for Rinne Tensei, We dont know much about it. While the only time it was used, yes, they all went back to their original body. But if you recall, Nagato stated he couldnt bring back jiraiya! could there be a limit to how long the person could remain dead before the jutsu is ineffective? if this is true, why did Madara expect to be brought back with it, when he died years ago. Or could it be that if you are reviving many people, there is a limit to how far back you can go, which would mean if you are only reviving one person( madara) then you potentially go back far enough to just rez him? or was it simply becuase jiraiya was so far down in the sea that bringing him back would only result in his death again? or could it simply be because nagato is not the true successor of the rinnegan therefore he cant us it to its full extent, in the same way kakashi cant use kamui to its full potential.

Now if you go with your theory that rinne brings you back to you original body, why would madara want to go to a decomposed corpse? Does Rinne Tensei repair the body to its original state? who knows? all we know about the jutsu is that the body of the soul becomes like an anchor and pulls the soul back in, thats it really and that there is some sort of limit to it that was not explained in great detail!

 

[Gyakusetsu]

No Edo Tensei revives every part of u like a clone back, but Rinne Tensei only brings your life back to your original body.

If Madara thought he was braught back by Rinne Tensei, he would instantly knew that it cant be Rinne Tensei, cuz he has his still his Eyes, this means he died with his eyes, without giving them away!
Or can anyone explain me now, how Madara is such a fool, if he knew he gave away his eyes?

Same could be said of Tobirama. Why didn't he just release himself before Orochimaru took full control? Took the Kages a while to adjust also. Appears to be some moments slight disorientation when first becoming an Edo.

I see where you are going with this, but I already explained this in another thread. Nagato doesn't have natural rinnegan due to being Madara's son. They were always on which is a sign of transplant. Two Rinnegans cheapens things considerably (3 if you include Madaras ET rinnegan) and would start to become like Hashiramas DNA (how is this possible? Hashirama DNA). We know Tobi and Madara know one another. Wouldn't it have been easier for Tobi to be using Madaras eyes this whole time, if he knew there was another available? Tobi has some claim to the eyes. The list goes on.

Random thought resurfacing. Why doesn't Madara recognize Tsunade if he lived so long? He recognized Onooki right away despite his appearance. Onooki calls her Princess acknowledging her lineage (or deriding it knowing that old fart) so clearly she was famous outside the leaf village. Madara has no clue who she is despite it being the granddaughter of his rival. He had to ask if she's a descendant.

 

[yondaimeminato]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

When someone is proven to be wrong, they tend to blame on the proven fact. These are the "I can't be wrong" people. These anti-obito people are so locked inside their boxes that will not open to any logical explanations. They get so fixed to age, height, appearances etc etc. Even in real world impossible things happen. Things that contradict science and common sense.

 

[EYES OF ITACHI]

Re: Obito : All plotholes explained

on some view ponits your right but the one about him controlling the mizukage is the one that gets me....i doubt this once unskillful ninja was able to control someone of kage level to easily with a genjutsu.....not only that but convince other powerful shonbi like kisame to side with him

 

[sarkul93]

When Tobi was introduced in Shippuden or say Manga after Gaiden,his voice and behaviour seemed CHILDISH!!.Running after Deidara like a little child.So I believe with some doubt in mind that Tobi/Obito has a multiple identity or one can say multiple consciousness.One can safely assume that his half body that was crushed under the stone was ressurected by implanting the Madaras consciousness and body same as Madara had implanted Hashis Dna in himself.This can be a possible explanation why Tobi got chakra comparable to a Kage to summon Kurama when he attacked Konoha

 

[MMTwister]

<div class="bbWrapper"><b>Tobi is Obito? Maybe</b><br /> <br /> First of all, before you read this 100th thread about &quot;Tobi's true identity&quot; we should all take a deep breath and <u>stay rational</u>. In this thread I will repeat what I've already said in a few other posts: Tobi can still be somebody (or <i>something</i>!?) else! Why and how? Here are a few possibilities:<br /> <br /> 1) we only <i>know</i> that Tobi <i>uses</i> Obito's body, just like he has his eye. in other words, whoever or whatever Tobi is, he found Obito's body and took it over (maybe with the help of someone, f.ex. Zetsu!?) <br /> -&gt; Tobi = ? with Obito's body<br /> <br /> 2) Zetsu himself can change his shape and looks by absorbing the DNA of someone. being capable to move freely through the ground, it would be easy for him (them?) to get access to Obito's body<br /> -&gt; Tobi = (one/a?) Zetsu<br /> <br /> ?) If Tobi is Obito... who is this guy?<br /> <br /> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div><br /> <br /> is that Obito? possible. he just let his hair grow and cut it later. is that Madara? possible. he was the &quot;original&quot; Tobi (Masked Man!?), hiding his identity, and when he died Obito (his student?) took over. someone else? we don't know yet!<br /> <br /> ___________<br /> <br /> In other words, if Tobi is really Obito, so be it, but i won't believe it until we hear it from himself. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" data-shortname=":p" /> There are still many (other) possibilities.<br /> <br /> If he's Obito, Madara (with the help of Zetsu? or someone else?) could've found him. He/They could've manipulated and convinced him to help with the Eye of the Moon Plan.<br /> <br /> The main thing I ask with this thread: don't jump too fast to conclusions. It's still not 100% certain yet who he is. Kishi is a high ranked troll as everyone should know already. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" /><br /> <br /> <u>Edit:</u> good thread with similar arguments:<br /> <div class="messageHide messageHide--link"> You must be registered for see links </div><br /> <br /> <u>Edit 2:</u> here's a good post with similar arguments<br /> <blockquote class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=0" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-0">Bigfoot34501 said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent"> Alright I'm gonna go on a rant, I'm going to try and justify who Tobi really is, and why he got such a powerboost so quickly after his supposed death. I'm going to talk about Orochimaru, Living Corpse Reincarnaion, Izuna, Rinne Tensei, and Obito. For anyone to lazy to read, there will be a summary at the bottom of the page <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite11" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes :rolleyes:" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /><br /> <br /> <b><span style="font-size: 22px">Orochimaru and Living Corpse Reincarnation:</span></b><br /> <br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">First of all, what's Living Corpse Reincarnation? If you remember, it's the technique that Oro used to prolong his life. Here's the description of it from Naruto Wikia:<br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">The Living Corpse Reincarnation is a technique that was developed by Orochimaru that allows him to transfer his soul to someone else's body.<br /> <br /> If periodically repeated, it grants the user immortality as long as they can find new host bodies and keep them alive. Orochimaru can only perform this technique once every three years. It also seems that when the three years are almost over, he is forced to move into another host, as the previous one begins to weaken and reject him <br /> <br /> Presumably, if he had a proper container, he could stay in the host for a full lifetime. The fact that he wanted to prepare Sasuke Uchiha as well as several others for the transfer before performing it seems to reinforce this.</div> </div> </div> </div>Oro wanted Sasuke as his &quot;long-term&quot; body, and after Kabuto revealed to Madara that he and Oro were researching the Rinnegan, we can assume that they wanted Oro to take Sasuke's body, they wanted him to get MS, they would then kill Itachi for EMS, and then they would somehow unlock the Rinnegan <br /> Obviously this must have sounded easier in theory, because they failed miserably at doing it.:sy: But it's important to note that Oro was quite literally minutes away from getting Sasuke's body:<br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div></div> </div> </div> </div>But it didn't work, and he ended up with this fodder's body:<br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div></div> </div> </div> </div>Oro also used another fodder body when he fought the Third Hokage, it was this woman:<br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div></div> </div> </div> </div>Both this woman and that guy were used by Oro, and with those bodies, he was able to take on people like Hiruzen and Four Tailed Naruto, and survive<br /> <br /> Could these two fodder have taken on Hiruzen and Naruto themselves and survived? F*ck no, it was Oro taking over their bodies which gave them a <b>major power boost</b> that allowed them to take on a Kage and a tailed beast<br /> <br /> Also whenever Oro wanted to, he could take on the appearance of any of the bodies he had possessed before, although it seemed like he preferred having his own face on the bodies he used<br /> <br /> But remember who else seems to have changed his appearance often?<br /> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler"> <button type="button" class="bbCodeSpoiler-button button" data-xf-click="toggle" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to reveal or hide spoiler"><span class="button-text"> <span>Spoiler</span> </span></button> <div class="bbCodeSpoiler-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--spoiler"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="messageHide messageHide--image"> You must be registered for see images </div></div> </div> </div> </div></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink"><a>Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote></div>

 

[Amelius]

Random thought resurfacing. Why doesn't Madara recognize Tsunade if he lived so long? He recognized Onooki right away despite his appearance. Onooki calls her Princess acknowledging her lineage (or deriding it knowing that old fart) so clearly she was famous outside the leaf village. Madara has no clue who she is despite it being the granddaughter of his rival. He had to ask if she's a descendant.

That is indeed a good observation, My best guess would be that because of the many clashes between Onooki and Madara, that Madara would remember him, and judging from what was shown of those, they were before he left the village and perhaps she wasnt born until after Madara desertion? But you would think he would still keep tabs on the village... does arise certain interesting questions!