[Theory] Possible Explanation of The Timeline

[NarutoKage2]

The fact that the masked man and Madara knew each other seems to make the recent revelation of his identity as Obito seem illogical. I agreed with this timeline discrepancy, until a thought just struck me. So here's the theory:

Madara knew Nagato and called him a 'brat'. After surviving his battle at the valley of the end, the former probably retained his EMS, but i think that was it. He probably went to the Hidden rain, and possibly kept his identity secret from the world. Contrary to what we think, Nagato awoke his rinnegan on his own. Madara saw this, and either used a mask or zetsu to approach him and Yahiko some years later and instigated him to start Akatsuki. Madara kept tabs on Nagato because of the rinnegan and likely gained an interest in those eyes.

Many years later, Obito survived the boulders falling on him by either activating Kamuui or being ressuscitated by Zetsu and then he was introduced to the real Madara. The latter brainwashed him, much as Obito would himself do to Sasuke years later. This is when Tobi got all the info on the history of the Uchiha clan and knowledge from the Uchiha stone tablets from one of the founders of Konoha himself. Afterward, Madara awoke the rinnegan and died shortly afterward, but before dying he entrusted his plan to Obito along with instructions on Nagato, the Akatsuki and the plan to use the fox to attack Konoha. So, in reality Madara's eyes were never removed from his body and Nagato's eyes were his own.

Tobi was always a liar, and he lied to Konan about giving Nagato the rinnegan.

So this way some sense can be made of the timeline, at least. The points are:

-Madara knew Nagato, true. But he never gave him the rinnegan.
-Madara knew the masked man....also true, but years after he met Nagato, thus conforming with the timeline.
-Madara died shortly after awakening the rinnegan...yes, but this event happened AFTER he both met Nagato, and many years later Obito and his death was probably just before the 9 tails attack on Konoha.


Hope Tobi being Obito at least somewhat fits with the timeline now. Key points are that Tobi lied to Konan, and that Madara awoke his rinnegan after meeting Obito.And Nagato awoke his rinnegan on his own. So Madara died much later than we all thought initially. That's my theory.

 

[Infinum Octal]

It is quite a good theory. The best I have heard in a while that fits the situation.

 

[Legendary Broly]

Nice timeline rep+
But I am still confused as to how Nagato could of unlocked rinnegan :shrug:
I mean wasn't it confirmed that rinnegan is an evolution of the sharingan ?
I guess we can only wait and see ? :shrug:

 

[Koha]

+rep. I respect your theory, I don't totally agree but I respect it to the fullest, it makes so much more sense than what people are putting on here. -.-

 

[odieSO6P]

I think so., because if madara gave his eyes to nagato I think madara don't have eyes right now.

 

[odieSO6P]

Nice timeline rep+
But I am still confused as to how Nagato could of unlocked rinnegan :shrug:
I mean wasn't it confirmed that rinnegan is an evolution of the sharingan ?
I guess we can only wait and see ? :shrug:

Because he kill yahiko in his own hands, that's y he activated the rinnegan.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Nice timeline rep+
But I am still confused as to how Nagato could of unlocked rinnegan :shrug:
I mean wasn't it confirmed that rinnegan is an evolution of the sharingan ?
I guess we can only wait and see ? :shrug:

Good point. But it was confirmed that the rinbegan comes from the sharingan, it was NOT confirmed that there wasnt any other way as well. Nagato awakening the rinnegan on his own is the only way the timeline can make sense, so lets see what kishi does.

 

[EternalMangekyouRinnegan]

The fact that the masked man and Madara knew each other seems to make the recent revelation of his identity as Obito seem illogical. I agreed with this timeline discrepancy, until a thought just struck me. So here's the theory:

Madara knew Nagato and called him a 'brat'. After surviving his battle at the valley of the end, the former probably retained his EMS, but i think that was it. He probably went to the Hidden rain, and possibly kept his identity secret from the world. Contrary to what we think, Nagato awoke his rinnegan on his own. Madara saw this, and either used a mask or zetsu to approach him and Yahiko some years later and instigated him to start Akatsuki. Madara kept tabs on Nagato because of the rinnegan and likely gained an interest in those eyes.

Many years later, Obito survived the boulders falling on him by either activating Kamuui or being ressuscitated by Zetsu and then he was introduced to the real Madara. The latter brainwashed him, much as Obito would himself do to Sasuke years later. This is when Tobi got all the info on the history of the Uchiha clan and knowledge from the Uchiha stone tablets from one of the founders of Konoha himself. Afterward, Madara awoke the rinnegan and died shortly afterward, but before dying he entrusted his plan to Obito along with instructions on Nagato, the Akatsuki and the plan to use the fox to attack Konoha. So, in reality Madara's eyes were never removed from his body and Nagato's eyes were his own.

Tobi was always a liar, and he lied to Konan about giving Nagato the rinnegan.

So this way some sense can be made of the timeline, at least. The points are:

-Madara knew Nagato, true. But he never gave him the rinnegan.
-Madara knew the masked man....also true, but years after he met Nagato, thus conforming with the timeline.
-Madara died shortly after awakening the rinnegan...yes, but this event happened AFTER he both met Nagato, and many years later Obito and his death was probably just before the 9 tails attack on Konoha.


Hope Tobi being Obito at least somewhat fits with the timeline now. Key points are that Tobi lied to Konan, and that Madara awoke his rinnegan after meeting Obito.And Nagato awoke his rinnegan on his own. So Madara died much later than we all thought initially. That's my theory.

1) Nagato awakening Rinnegan on his own is like Naruto awakening Byakugan on his own. It doesn't make sense and is completely out of place. Kabuto said rinnegan is a natural progression for Sharingan.Tobi claimed he gave the rinnegan to Nagato. There's no mention of Uzumaki clan members having rinnegan, nor have we ever seen one with rinnegan, bar Nagato.

All the evidence we have points to the fact that Nagato was using Madara's set of eyes.

2) He only lied when it suited him, not because he is a natural liar. Why would Tobi lie to someone who is about to die? That's like lying to a dog or your own reflection in mirror.

 

[supino]

I think so., because if madara gave his eyes to nagato I think madara don't have eyes right now.

not if they were removed after his death.

Because he kill yahiko in his own hands, that's y he activated the rinnegan.

he already had the rinnegan at the time.

nevertheless, this is a good theory, pretty much consistent with what we know, +rep. we will have to wait and see if someone can awaken the rinnegan without having a sharingan because as of now the idea is that the sharingan was a mutation of the original dojutsu of the so6p and that under special circumstances it can revert to its original form.

 

[konoha s beautiful beast]

rep for the affort

 

[NarutoKage2]

1) Nagato awakening Rinnegan on his own is like Naruto awakening Byakugan on his own. It doesn't make sense and is completely out of place. Kabuto said rinnegan is a natural progression for Sharingan.Tobi claimed he gave the rinnegan to Nagato. There's no mention of Uzumaki clan members having rinnegan, nor have we ever seen one with rinnegan, bar Nagato.

All the evidence we have points to the fact that Nagato was using Madara's set of eyes.

2) He only lied when it suited him, not because he is a natural liar. Why would Tobi lie to someone who is about to die? That's like lying to a dog or your own reflection in mirror.

1.Kabuto is not infallible and can be wrong or at least partially right. What you ignore is the fact that there was also only ever one Uchiha namely Madara who has ever been known to have awoken the rinnegan, thus there just being one Uzumaki namely Nagato is not illogical as the odds are the same here.

2. Tobi also told(implied) Konan when she was about to die that he was Madara, you calling that the truth? If your opponent is likely to die it does'nt mean you tell them the truth. You are taking everything Tobi says at face value and not scrutinising his authenticity enough. The real reason Obito said that to Konan, and much earlier when he told Kushnina that he waited a long time, was to demoralize his opponents by making it seem as if he were some larger than life figure who could destroy them. 'I gave Nagato the rinnegan', 'do you have any idea how long i have waited for this' are both boast-ful ways of making your enemies cower. It was part and parcel of Tobi's deception, he did'nt just claim to be a legend like Madara, he acted like it as well. It had to seem believable, plus it increased his odds of a quick kill by using the scare tactic.

not if they were removed after his death.



he already had the rinnegan at the time.

nevertheless, this is a good theory, pretty much consistent with what we know, +rep. we will have to wait and see if someone can awaken the rinnegan without having a sharingan because as of now the idea is that the sharingan was a mutation of the original dojutsu of the so6p and that under special circumstances it can revert to its original form.

It is a mutation, but its unknown if it can't be arrived at by other means as well.

rep for the affort

Thanks.

 

[Floydical]

Great thread.

I was thinking about the same thing, the only way for the timeline to make sense is if Nagato's rinnegans were not actually Madara's rinnegans. I only say it like that because I honestly feel that Nagato did not awaken the Rinnegan by himself, Madara must have had a hand in it.

I guess one possible explanation is that Madara actually gave Nagato his old eyes, meaning his original eyes. Meaning the ones he discarded when he took Izuna's eyes and achieved EMS. But if you believe the idea that it takes 2 pairs of MS to create one EMS, than this possibility is, well, impossible.

Anyway, I guess we do have to wait for Kishi to explain this, but I get the feeling if he actually does get around to explaining the whole timeline, it will take several chapters, possibly dozens of chapters depending on how the battles transition in the coming chapters themselves.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Great thread.

I was thinking about the same thing, the only way for the timeline to make sense is if Nagato's rinnegans were not actually Madara's rinnegans. I only say it like that because I honestly feel that Nagato did not awaken the Rinnegan by himself, Madara must have had a hand in it.

I guess one possible explanation is that Madara actually gave Nagato his old eyes, meaning his original eyes. Meaning the ones he discarded when he took Izuna's eyes and achieved EMS. But if you believe the idea that it takes 2 pairs of MS to create one EMS, than this possibility is, well, impossible.

Anyway, I guess we do have to wait for Kishi to explain this, but I get the feeling if he actually does get around to explaining the whole timeline, it will take several chapters, possibly dozens of chapters depending on how the battles transition in the coming chapters themselves.

Thanks. Yeah, i figured that maybe if some of what we thought about past events was different, the pieces of the timeline puzzle would fit and make sense. The story seems to be heading towards its end, so i don't know how many chapters it does take but i do hope we get some explanation for the plot holes in the story.

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

I agree mostly. (Actually I truly dont believe there's a logical way kishi can fix this mess he created...SMH) Anyway, this is probably the only reasonable direction his explanation can take.

Ironically, all this Tobi=Obito crap actually validates a number of my theories. E.g. I've always believed that Tobi's S/T jutsu was Kamui...and that he has a MS...etc.

Your timeline makes space for another theory I've had. Tobito called "dead Nagato" the 3rd Sage of the six paths. And he was basically speaking to himself when he called Nagato by that title. So there's absolutely no reason for him to lie. Who was he trying to deceive? Dead-Nagato? This obviously implies that Tobito truly believed that Nagato was the third person to acquire the Rinnegan.

In your timeline Nagato acquires his Rinnegan long before Madara activates his own. This reasoning is the only way to explain how Madara could possibly become acquainted with Obito AND activate his Rinnegan just before dying. Which means that Madara can only be the 4th Sage of the Six Paths seeing as he got his Rinnegan after Nagato. (Still wanna know how on God's green earth Nagato managed to evolve his eyes into Rinngans? I've always had this hunch that his father was an Uchiha or something)

Now the question obviously is...Who the heck is/was the 2nd Sage of the Six Paths? The Elder Son? He did, after all, inherit the Rikidou's Eyes.

 

[NarutoKage2]

I agree mostly. (Actually I truly dont believe there's a logical way kishi can fix this mess he created...SMH) Anyway, this is probably the only reasonable direction his explanation can take.

Ironically, all this Tobi=Obito crap actually validates a number of my theories. E.g. I've always believed that Tobi's S/T jutsu was Kamui...and that he has a MS...etc.

Your timeline makes space for another theory I've had. Tobito called "dead Nagato" the 3rd Sage of the six paths. And he was basically speaking to himself when he called Nagato by that title. So there's absolutely no reason for him to lie. Who was he trying to deceive? Dead-Nagato? This obviously implies that Tobito truly believed that Nagato was the third person to acquire the Rinnegan.

In your timeline Nagato acquires his Rinnegan long before Madara activates his own. This reasoning is the only way to explain how Madara could possibly become acquainted with Obito AND activate his Rinnegan just before dying. Which means that Madara can only be the 4th Sage of the Six Paths seeing as he got his Rinnegan after Nagato. (Still wanna know how on God's green earth Nagato managed to evolve his eyes into Rinngans? I've always had this hunch that his father was an Uchiha or something)

Now the question obviously is...Who the heck is/was the 2nd Sage of the Six Paths? The Elder Son? He did, after all, inherit the Rikidou's Eyes.

Possibly. I also believe this is likely seeing as how Tobito(lol at the name) was the one who told us about the Elder son in the first place. And Nagato awakening the rinnegan is not really that much of a stretch by manga standards. I mean, apart from Kabuto's research there is'nt any contradicting evidence, recall that as i said earlier in this thread Nagato was the only Uzumaki to have those eyes but Madara was also the only known Uchiha to awaken them as well. It is possible as pointed out by Floydical that Madara used his original eyes, the ones he discarded when he took Izuna's and had an experiment with Nagato, who as an Uzumaki might have somehow reacted to those eyes to acquire the rinnegan. Its also possible Madara used some sort of a jutsu to do this as the process might have been dangerous, perhaps this was why madara died when his turn to awaken the rinnegan came about.

At any rate, overall this has been one hell of a manga and i'd be sorely disappointed to see it fall apart due to logical fallacies, still hoping kishi can be somewhat consistent with what has been previously shown.

 

[Lambi]

It's definitely Madara's rinnegan. But it doesn't have to be his own eyes... just like Nagato could create the 6 pains with 6 rinnegans, surely Madara could make another set of rinnegan eyes and give to Nagato?

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

Possibly. I also believe this is likely seeing as how Tobito(lol at the name) was the one who told us about the Elder son in the first place. And Nagato awakening the rinnegan is not really that much of a stretch by manga standards. I mean, apart from Kabuto's research there is'nt any contradicting evidence, recall that as i said earlier in this thread Nagato was the only Uzumaki to have those eyes but Madara was also the only known Uchiha to awaken them as well. It is possible as pointed out by Floydical that Madara used his original eyes, the ones he discarded when he took Izuna's and had an experiment with Nagato, who as an Uzumaki might have somehow reacted to those eyes to acquire the rinnegan. Its also possible Madara used some sort of a jutsu to do this as the process might have been dangerous, perhaps this was why madara died when his turn to awaken the rinnegan came about.

At any rate, overall this has been one hell of a manga and i'd be sorely disappointed to see it fall apart due to logical fallacies, still hoping kishi can be somewhat consistent with what has been previously shown.

Interesting theory by Floydical. My wild theory on Madara's death is that he resurrected Izuna's soul into Obito's reconstructed body and Madara died in the process.

Deep down, I know that Kishi's got things figured out. But!...there's just too many discrepancies that comes with this sudden creation of "Tobito". Everyone knows the list is long. E.g. Obito presumably died at the age of 13 and a year later, at the age of 14 attacked Konoha. We know it was him, and not Madara, because of his Kamui he used to battle Minato. I find it truly hard to believe that the same Obito Kakashi knew was transformed into the masked villain we call Tobi within the space of a year or two. And he has the audacity to say things like "Do you have any idea how long Ive waited for this moment?" (whilst freeing the Kyuubi from kushina). lol..Does he have any idea how long I waited for him to remove his mask?

Or maybe he was "evil" from the start. It could explain why he was always late. Madara could have been corrupting the little fella way before he presumably died.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

One year before he fought Minato
​

 

[Ibrahimsanni]

With ur theory it is proven that jman was wright about the rinnegan being natural(i mean popping out randomly only in times of war to destroy or restore the world) and its also usefull in powerscaling of the older son of the sage theory in the sense that it would take extreme measures to acquire such power if u know about it and ends up leading to you using it in an unjust way.
While it would be used in a just and true way if seen randomly with assistance and tutorship of someone.i agree to ur theory

 

[shri3kbat]

1) Nagato awakening Rinnegan on his own is like Naruto awakening Byakugan on his own. It doesn't make sense and is completely out of place. Kabuto said rinnegan is a natural progression for Sharingan.Tobi claimed he gave the rinnegan to Nagato. There's no mention of Uzumaki clan members having rinnegan, nor have we ever seen one with rinnegan, bar Nagato.

No it does make sense. It would mean he was born with Rinnegan. Rinnegan was the dojutsu of the sage and the elder son was born with it. Uzumaki are related to senju and Nagato's dad was likely Uchiha so it makes sense that Nagato could be born with Rinnegan.
Evolving sharingan to rinnegan is more weird than being born with sharingan but it's Naruto logic after all

And Tobi can't have lied. It would be utterly pointless. However what exactly he means is something else.

 

[Simple Math]

Good theory