[Discussion] Possible explanation as to how Tobi has so much knowledge

Floydical

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First off, this thread has become significantly longer than I intended so I'm going to include a synopsis at the end, but please take the time to read the whole thing if you can. I've included manga scans and thrown in a little humor to try to keep your guys' attention :).

Now I think it has been made clear recently that Tobi has all of Obito's memories, or at least has all of his memories since becoming a part of team Minato. He seems to know about Obito and Kakashi's relationship before their final mission together, indicated by his seeded resentment towards Kakashi. He also obviously knows about Obito's death and the mission connected to it. Not to mention he knows everything about Obito's MS which means he must have taken the eye immediately after the boy's death and on top of that, knows a lot about the Uchiha clan's family history. The bottom line I'm getting at here is that Tobi not only seems to have Obito's memories, but also the memories of more seasoned Uchiha clan members.

To be more specific, from what I can gather from the manga, Tobi also has all of Madara's memories, or at a minimum, his brother Izuna's. I mean one of the key factors that kept the Madara theory around for so long was that Tobi had such in depth knowledge of Madara and the history of the Uchiha clan that it was pretty ridiculous to think he could be anyone other than Madara, or perhaps his brother Izuna. The bottom line is that Tobi has memories of someone greater than or equal to the age of Madara/ Izuna, or was drilled on the subject very intensely by someone with the same level of experience, over a long period of time.

So on top of seemingly being a 110 year old grandpa, Tobi also shows indications of a 30 some year old man who might be using the body of a 12 year old nobody....... The real point I'm getting at here is that there must be a key factor connecting these vast reserves of knowledge to the person we know as Tobi. I think that anyone could have become Tobi considering there has to be an outside source informing / feeding information to him.

Now I'm sure a ton of you are screaming that the connection between the two has got to be Zetsu. I mean we know that Tobi is largely comprised of Zetsu material / Hashirama DNA, whichever you prefer, and everyone knows that IF Obito did survive his life threatening experience, or if his body was salvaged from the scene, it was because of Zetsu. But there is a huge hole in this Zetsu idea that was revealed to us recently:

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We know for a fact that if Zetsu clones a person by touching them and storing their genetic information, he CANNOT copy their memories. If Zetsu could copy/ clone a person's memories, he would have known that Ton Ton was a pig when he cloned Neji. Basically what I'm saying is that If Tobi does have memories from more than one person, it could not logically be because he is some form of Zetsu clone.

Buuuuuut, we do know that Zetsu can in fact SHARE MEMORIES with Tobi:

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This topic has always been very important to me and I feel that discovering the secrets behind Tobi viewing Zetsu's 'recordings' has always been a key to figuring out Tobi's past. Now I consider these 'recordings' simply memories; or at least memories of a being created or designed for the purpose of passing them to someone else. Now this part is not new at all, but perhaps Black Zetsu is comprised of DNA comparable to Tobi's, perhaps strictly Uchiha DNA, and perhaps since Tobi is comprised of so much Zetsu DNA that he can essentially meld or attach to Zetsu in order to share these 'recordings'.

Now I know that Tobi and Zetsu 'melding together' is not a pleasant thought, but how else could he share those recordings? I doubt black zetsu can project the images from his 'golden byakugan' onto a projector screen while tobi has some popcorn and relaxes. I really don't see any other explanation other than them forming some sort of physical contact.

From all this, I can only begin to conclude that Tobi is someone between the age of Izuna and Obito who was manipulated or perhaps forced into service by Madara to serve him. I think Zetsu has perhaps been 'sharing memories' with Tobi for as long as he has been Madara's servant. I also feel that Zetsu must have been keeping tabs of Minato and his team in addition to infiltrating the area that Obito died. I think that is why Tobi knows so much about Obito, because Zetsu shared those memories with him. I also think that Zetsu may have preserved a number of bodies to help keep Tobi alive. Among these, I think both Obito and Madara's bodies were preserved and perhaps have been used or are being used by Tobi along with Hashirama's DNA.

One final note before I make the synopsis:

I feel that since Zetsu was almost certainly created after Madara lost to Hashirama at VOTE, that the evidence does in fact point to Izuna as being the top candidate for Tobi. Considering Tobi knows a lot about Madara and Izuna's past BEFORE Madara lost to Hashirama and because Zetsu would not have been able to share memories of a person BEFORE he was created... just a thought.

Phew! Anyway, thank you guys for reading! This topic has really got me excited for the next few weeks of the manga! Feel free to discuss and point out mistakes or flaws in my post, and for all you lazy people, here is the synopsis I promised :cool::

SYNOPSIS:

1. Tobi seems to have the memories of both Obito and Madara and possibly those of many other people, Izuna included.

2. Zetsu cannot copy a person's memories along with their appearance, making me believe that Tobi is not a full on Zetsu clone with someone else's DNA spliced in.

3. Considering Tobi can 'view' Zetsu's 'recordings' and considering Tobi is comprised largely of Zetsu material, I'm under the impression that Tobi can 'meld' with zetsu and share his 'memories'. This would theoretically enable Tobi to have knowledge of everything Zetsu does, as far back as Zetsu's creation.

4. I feel that Zetsu was watching Minato, and consequently, Obito during their training and missions. I also feel that Zetsu harvested Obito's sharingan from the scene and has perhaps been using people's body's, like Obito's or perhaps even Madara's, to keep Tobi alive longer.
 

R4mbl3

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Does everyone here know that when you take A sharingan from someone, That person sharingan being taken, has all there memories burned into it. So when you get that eye, you get their memories as well. This happened when Sasuke got Itachi's eyes, Sasuke was able to see all of his memories.
 

Phoenix Wright

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Does everyone here know that when you take A sharingan from someone, That person sharingan being taken, has all there memories burned into it. So when you get that eye, you get their memories as well. This happened when Sasuke got Itachi's eyes, Sasuke was able to see all of his memories.
What the hell? Of course he didn't, otherwise Itachi wouldn't need to show him the past before disappearing after Edo Tensei's cancellation.
 

Floydical

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Does everyone here know that when you take A sharingan from someone, That person sharingan being taken, has all there memories burned into it. So when you get that eye, you get their memories as well. This happened when Sasuke got Itachi's eyes, Sasuke was able to see all of his memories.
Well wouldn't that be convenient, but unfortunately that is not true.

If implanting another's sharingan gives you their memories, than Sasuke would have known everything Itachi did after he transplanted his eyes. Sasuke still had questions for Itachi when Itachi was an edo and was surprised to see Itachi's memory of Shisui giving him his eye. Considering Sasuke had Itachi's eyes implanted at that time means he did not get all his memories from them.
 

p0002q

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I like this post and it puts a new spin on things which I also like :)

I'll try to do a quick general breakdown of what I believe:

Madara, after "losing" to Hashirama salvaged the DNA he could.
Madara tried to revive his brother in secret using the DNA of Hashi.
It failed, but he created Zetsu. The black and white half combined version.
The black half was Izuna's body being "re-animated" in a sense.
The white half as we know is a living version (alter ego as Sakara states) of Hashirama.
The black half may have picked up the "recording" ability because of being created from Izuna's corpse.

So where does Tobi come from?

I believe Madara used Izanagi or the creation of all things technique to create Tobi.
I believe Tobi was created from multiple components (possibly).
We know from the sage, that to use the creation of all things tech, you need to "imagine" a creation - and then provide that creation with life.
Well - Madara imagines a "mysterious" entity and provides life to his creation via Zetsu and who knows what else.

This version of Madara creating Tobi accounts for most of the knowledge that Tobi has in regaurds to the Leaf, Uchiha history, legendary items, the powers of the 9 tails host (like the 1st's wife being able to sense evil intent), etc. etc.

It gets a little iffy for me when it comes to Tobi acting as if he is Obito, but one thing seems unique to me.
Tobi knows that Kakashi regrets the whole Obito death thing - but Tobi speaks from the standpoint of installing more negative emotion into Kakashi.

For example, Tobi says "You live a life of regret"
Not, " I can't believe you let that happen to me"

All in all, I think between the decades of intel gathering and Zetsu's unique hide\record abilities - it's rather easy for Tobi to try to mess with Kakashi in the manner he does with the only Obito connection being they each have one of his eyes.


Bottom line:

I <3'd ur read and it got my brain churning on my own belief as to how Tobi came about.

I just wanted to share my 2 cents and maybe return the favor to get ur brain thinking more theory :)

Also, if there are any proven flaws in my ideas, please let me know cuz i <3 to fine tune my concept cuz I do believe Madara created Tobi in the same manner the sage created the tailed beasts :)
 

Floydical

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I like this post and it puts a new spin on things which I also like :)

I'll try to do a quick general breakdown of what I believe:

Madara, after "losing" to Hashirama salvaged the DNA he could.
Madara tried to revive his brother in secret using the DNA of Hashi.
It failed, but he created Zetsu. The black and white half combined version.
The black half was Izuna's body being "re-animated" in a sense.
The white half as we know is a living version (alter ego as Sakara states) of Hashirama.
The black half may have picked up the "recording" ability because of being created from Izuna's corpse.

So where does Tobi come from?

I believe Madara used Izanagi or the creation of all things technique to create Tobi.
I believe Tobi was created from multiple components (possibly).
We know from the sage, that to use the creation of all things tech, you need to "imagine" a creation - and then provide that creation with life.
Well - Madara imagines a "mysterious" entity and provides life to his creation via Zetsu and who knows what else.

This version of Madara creating Tobi accounts for most of the knowledge that Tobi has in regaurds to the Leaf, Uchiha history, legendary items, the powers of the 9 tails host (like the 1st's wife being able to sense evil intent), etc. etc.

It gets a little iffy for me when it comes to Tobi acting as if he is Obito, but one thing seems unique to me.
Tobi knows that Kakashi regrets the whole Obito death thing - but Tobi speaks from the standpoint of installing more negative emotion into Kakashi.

For example, Tobi says "You live a life of regret"
Not, " I can't believe you let that happen to me"

All in all, I think between the decades of intel gathering and Zetsu's unique hide\record abilities - it's rather easy for Tobi to try to mess with Kakashi in the manner he does with the only Obito connection being they each have one of his eyes.


Bottom line:

I <3'd ur read and it got my brain churning on my own belief as to how Tobi came about.

I just wanted to share my 2 cents and maybe return the favor to get ur brain thinking more theory :)

Also, if there are any proven flaws in my ideas, please let me know cuz i <3 to fine tune my concept cuz I do believe Madara created Tobi in the same manner the sage created the tailed beasts :)

Someone actually responded in regard to the actual topic!

But seriously I like your theory but black Zetsu being a sort-of reanimation of Izuna? Idk about that, and Tobi being a creation of Madara's? Now that is more of a widely accepted theory, but I also doubt it.

Keep in mind that we can't give Madara too much credit in the brains department, he's not like Orochimaru. Now Oro may have helped him later on, but Tobi and Zetsu got their start before Orochimaru even came into the picture, imo. I feel that Tobi must be a meld of Zetsu and possibly more than one person. I can't really argue it too much either way, but I also think Zetsu's recordings are the key to his memories, perhaps how he could be someone like Kagami and have both Madara and Obito's memories. Again, I think its possible that Tobi can be anyone between the age of Izuna and Obito.
 

p0002q

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Someone actually responded in regard to the actual topic!

But seriously I like your theory but black Zetsu being a sort-of reanimation of Izuna? Idk about that, and Tobi being a creation of Madara's? Now that is more of a widely accepted theory, but I also doubt it.

Keep in mind that we can't give Madara too much credit in the brains department, he's not like Orochimaru. Now Oro may have helped him later on, but Tobi and Zetsu got their start before Orochimaru even came into the picture, imo. I feel that Tobi must be a meld of Zetsu and possibly more than one person. I can't really argue it too much either way, but I also think Zetsu's recordings are the key to his memories, perhaps how he could be someone like Kagami and have both Madara and Obito's memories. Again, I think its possible that Tobi can be anyone between the age of Izuna and Obito.
As far as the brains goes, what you said supports my idea :) He failed @ reviving Izuna and created Zetsu. I do believe that Madara sat in the shadows for years and was not as good as Maru by any means or else there'd be way more stuff from Madara (just my take)

I definitely know this: when Danzou and Sasuke fought, Tobi saw Danzou's izanagi arm and said "Dam you Maru, you kept meeting with Danzou". That to me has been a critical piece of info.

I started this idea of mine in 2011, so no matter how good someone else's is - i still hold onto mine as being "right" lol... but don't get me wrong - I enjoy reading ideas!

But as I always say, right until proven wrong :p

-It's just nice to have some legit posts still floating around this place.
 

dwest151

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Does everyone here know that when you take A sharingan from someone, That person sharingan being taken, has all there memories burned into it. So when you get that eye, you get their memories as well. This happened when Sasuke got Itachi's eyes, Sasuke was able to see all of his memories.
What the **** are you talking about? Sasuke was not able to see itachis memories because if that was the case, sasuke would not have needed itachi to tell him about the past beacause he would already know what happened.
 
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