Do you believe in God?

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  • I Believe In God

    Votes: 375 67.3%
  • I Am An Agnostic

    Votes: 55 9.9%
  • I Am An Atheist

    Votes: 127 22.8%

  • Total voters
    557

Rot

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Ha Ha, Have Ever Even Researched The Facts?? No?? Didn't Think So, So, You Can Believe A Wiki As Absolute Truth, I Can't Change Your Mind About That, And, I'll Believe Something More Factual, :)

..Its pretty well accepted that the Earth is approx. 4.6 Billion years old..you know..we have these things called volcanic fossils, and they have this stuff called carbon in them..and that carbon stuffs age can be dated with radioactivity..and the oldest ones we found point to about 4.6 Billion years..

Believe what you want, but I think I will go with "facts" then a 2,000 year old book
 

Pretium

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..Its pretty well accepted that the Earth is approx. 4.6 Billion years old..you know..we have these things called volcanic fossils, and they have this stuff called carbon in them..and that carbon stuffs age can be dated with radioactivity..and the oldest ones we found point to about 4.6 Billion years..

Believe what you want, but I think I will go with "facts" then a 2,000 year old book

1.* Receding Moon:**
The gravitational pull between the Earth and Moon causes the Earth’s oceans to have tides.* The tidal friction* between the Earth’s terrestrial surface and the water moving over it causes energy to be added* to the Moon.* This*results in a constant yearly increase in the distance between the Earth and Moon."1* This tidal friction also causes the Earth’s rotation to slow down, but* more importantly,* the energy added to the Moon causes it to recede from* the* Earth.1,2** The rate* of recession was measured at four centimeters per year in 1981; 3* however, according to Physicist Donald DeYoung:**

"One cannot extrapolate the present 4 cm/year separation rate back into history. It has that value today, but was more rapid in the past because of tidal effects.* In fact, the separation rate depends on the distance to the 6th power, a very strong dependence ... the rate ... was perhaps 20 m/year ‘long’ ago, and the average is 1.2 m/year. 1

Because of this, the Moon must be less than 750 million years old -- or 20% of the supposed 4.5 billion-year age of the Earth-Moon system.4
Note: Even though the maximum age obtained from this method is more than 10,000 years, it is nevertheless much younger than the alleged 4.5 billion year age for the Earth-Moon system proposed by evolutionists. Note also that nobody knows how the Moon got to be in its present orbit. All of the proposed theories as to where it came from have serious problems.* It is a complete mystery — unless it was designed that way from the beginning.

Hmmm, Any Other "Facts"??
 

toothpaste

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It's the mankind who created disease. Tell me why the Aids/HIV didnt came into existence centuries ago? God didnt created it but we did it. We did it and we spread it. People having sexual intercourse despite they were not married. God say no adultery. But we against it, and see what happened? God say take care of our hygiene, consume food that hygienic and clean. But what happened? People during the Third Crusade mostly neglected their hygiene. That's how the black plague came about.

But even if the disease is from God. That's not because he wanted to kill the mankind. But he wanted us to be united and do something about it. Do some measures on how this can be prevented? So that we wont take for granted. Example: Rain is form of a blessing. But when too much rain, it caused flooding. This is because God want us to be more prepared by building a drainage system.

i want to know which god you speak of and how you know this.
how many excuses must you make for this god!?

your god knows it will kill innocent children. but your god lets it happen.
why would your god create us such a way that allows for violence?
 

Avani 🥉

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1.* Receding Moon:**
The gravitational pull between the Earth and Moon causes the Earth’s oceans to have tides.* The tidal friction* between the Earth’s terrestrial surface and the water moving over it causes energy to be added* to the Moon.* This*results in a constant yearly increase in the distance between the Earth and Moon."1* This tidal friction also causes the Earth’s rotation to slow down, but* more importantly,* the energy added to the Moon causes it to recede from* the* Earth.1,2** The rate* of recession was measured at four centimeters per year in 1981; 3* however, according to Physicist Donald DeYoung:**

"One cannot extrapolate the present 4 cm/year separation rate back into history. It has that value today, but was more rapid in the past because of tidal effects.* In fact, the separation rate depends on the distance to the 6th power, a very strong dependence ... the rate ... was perhaps 20 m/year ‘long’ ago, and the average is 1.2 m/year. 1

Because of this, the Moon must be less than 750 million years old -- or 20% of the supposed 4.5 billion-year age of the Earth-Moon system.4
Note: Even though the maximum age obtained from this method is more than 10,000 years, it is nevertheless much younger than the alleged 4.5 billion year age for the Earth-Moon system proposed by evolutionists. Note also that nobody knows how the Moon got to be in its present orbit. All of the proposed theories as to where it came from have serious problems.* It is a complete mystery — unless it was designed that way from the beginning.

Hmmm, Any Other "Facts"??


Nah just that it shows complete ignorance or lack of understanding of methods used for dating the age of the Earth.
 

Shunsin no Shisui

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I believe in God for obvious reasons. It would be stupid to think that this world was just in existance and never created. Facts are backed up by evidence. There is clear evidence that God exists. This evidence is in the form of signs such as inside the human body, plants, the moon, stars and planets as well as death and life. Someone has to be there to give life and someone has to be there to take life. The one who is behind controlling everything in existance has to be God. Therefore it is a fact that God exists! Atm, i'm researching about different religions. My interest is currently in Islam though..
 
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Avani 🥉

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What Shows That?? Please, Explain

Not going to bother even. It is off topic for this thread. If you are interested just check out the threads about evolution and age of the Earth in this very section of NB or use internet search engines.

Just so you know scientist do not use a single criteria to determine age of the rocks.

Source: Geology was one of my main subjects in the university.

I believe in god - or that there is probably some thing out there. I love the symbolism and myths and tales from that era and like to read the philosophical thought process. But I refuse to close my eyes what is in front of me because ancient people who didnt have modern tech to support them, didn`t know better when writing those religious books.

Stagnant water is not good for our health. Same goes for Religion. No point in keeping it outdate and stale.
 
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Ofcourse God exist...did you just appear here and made yourself think of the evil you have in your head now...don't be all so stupid.
 

Pretium

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Seriously man, both the believers AND non-believers on this thread need to realize that they both are trying to prove their side of the debate. Religious people are NOT the only ones who need to have evidence to support their claims. I believe God exists, so I need to let others know why. You don't believe he exists, so you ALSO need to let others know why.

Also, if matter and energy have always been present, what's stopping religious people from making the same claim about God?
True, However, Even Atheists Are Believers, In Fact, I Think A Lot Of Them Have More Faith Than Religious People, Faith To Believe There Is No Creator
 

toothpaste

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Sasuke had a death penalty sentenced on him, for going against the village, betraying his comrades, and attacking high authorities. The equivalent to someone leaving Islam within Islamic grounds, slandering and badmouthing it after warnings, and insulting religious rulers and God.

apostasy is the disaffiliation of a religion by a person. if you feel insulted enough to sentence one to death, there is something wrong.

Death for apostasy is a traditional concept rather than religious. I personally don't agree with the death penalty unless its a highly extreme case, where people are being abused, and only more harm than good will come out of the person living. Like the recent Batman Massacre Trial.

apostasy being traditional or religious is irrelevant. it does not detract what happens to apostates.

Islam is a peaceful religion, but it does hold its ground. People who want to do what they want have the right to go against the rules somewhere else, but not in a strict religious area. See the difference?

that's oppression. location is irrelevant. it still happens. if something cannot stand criticism there is something wrong. what is it afraid of?
unfortunately, children simply being born in the area do not have the luxury to leave and are bound by these "laws."

If someone wants to live on Islamic territory they abide by islamic laws. If someone wants to live in a multicultural nation they abide by the government's laws, etc.

one does not blindly follow government laws. laws have to make sense. the penalty for apostasy does not. leaving islam is grounds for death? simply because i do not agree with you, i should die? if you wish to worship some 7th century preacher, go ahead. however no one else is obliged to take it seriously.

It's like going to visit a cultural ground as a tourist, abusing their rules and then expecting to get off scotch free. The world has rules, every religion and culture is different, and thus freely "criticising" won't help a situation.

if something or someone cannot stand criticism there is something wrong.

Harming can come in more ways than one. You're referring to physical abuse, of course that's wrong. Harming another soul is immoral on its own. Nonetheless you can harm people verbally as well. Openly "criticising" needs to be taken into consideration. Words can sometimes be more powerful than actions.

if you feel insulted by criticism, so what?

Islam is not only a religion, but a way of life. So as something that benefits a person's well being and chance in the hereafter - I say yes.

islam is a way of life. however, if you leave it you will be punished..
it may well be true that religion can benefit a person's well being. however, it does not mean the religion itself is true nor does it mean there is an afterlife.

That does not mean I get a big head and shove Islam down people's throats. If people want to take it up, be my guest. If not, it's down to the person's personality and actions with how they want to be treated. Treat me kindly, you receive kindness in return. Act ignorant, and recieve no response.:)

i criticize but simply doing so with religion, people somehow "feel" insulted, as though "feeling" insulted means anything. i have not shoved anything down anyone's throat. i'm conversing with people and criticizing their ideas. people are free to do the same. if you feel insulted by my criticism, so what? defend your views. don't whine.

And no one is obliged to show you respect, if you do not respect other people's beliefs

i have too much respect for humanity to respect religion or any other superstition. respect is and should be earned.
 
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toothpaste

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I believe in God for obvious reasons. It would be stupid to think that this world was just in existance and never created. Facts are backed up by evidence. There is clear evidence that God exists. This evidence is in the form of signs such as inside the human body, plants, the moon, stars and planets as well as death and life. Someone has to be there to give life and someone has to be there to take life. The one who is behind controlling everything in existance has to be God. Therefore it is a fact that God exists! Atm, i'm researching about different religions. My interest is currently in Islam though..

"Someone has to be there to give life and someone has to be there to take life."

then who created your god? and the one before that?
and which one is it? Zeus? Thor? Ra? Flying Spaghetti Monster?

by your logic, disease, famine, torture, everything that is "bad" is created by your god.

if god did not, then god does nothing to prevent them. and god knows it too.

that is not a loving god. that is an abusive god who toys with us.
 
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Anorien16

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Ha Ha, Have Ever Even Researched The Facts?? No?? Didn't Think So, So, You Can Believe A Wiki As Absolute Truth, I Can't Change Your Mind About That, And, I'll Believe Something More Factual, :)

Like what by counting how many grass out there? or reading from a book that said Sun revolves around the Earth?

The data you presented was declared obsolete years ago.

Here you go read this book for facts:

Dalrymple, G. Brent (1994-02-01). The Age of the Earth. Stanford University Press. ISBN 0-8047-2331-1.

Carbon Dating

Radiocarbon dating (usually referred to as simply carbon dating) is a radiometric dating method that uses the naturally occurring radioisotope carbon-14 (14C) to estimate the age of carbon-bearing materials up to about 58,000 to 62,000 years.[1] Raw, i.e., uncalibrated, radiocarbon ages are usually reported in radiocarbon years "Before Present" (BP), with "present" defined as AD 1950. Such raw ages can be calibrated to give calendar dates. One of the most frequent uses of radiocarbon dating is to estimate the age of organic remains from archaeological sites. When plants fix atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) into organic matter during photosynthesis they incorporate a quantity of 14C that approximately matches the level of this isotope in the atmosphere (a small difference occurs because of isotope fractionation, but this is corrected after laboratory analysis[citation needed]). After plants die or they are consumed by other organisms (for example, by humans or other animals), the accumulation of 14C fraction stops and the material declines at a fixed exponential rate due to the radioactive decay of 14C. Comparing the remaining 14C fraction of a sample to that expected from atmospheric 14C allows the age of the sample to be estimated.

The technique of radiocarbon dating was developed by Willard Libby and his colleagues at the University of Chicago in 1949. Emilio Segrè asserted in his autobiography that Enrico Fermi suggested the concept to Libby at a seminar in Chicago that year. Libby estimated that the steady state radioactivity concentration of exchangeable carbon-14 would be about 14 disintegrations per minute (dpm) per gram. In 1960, he was awarded the Nobel Prize in chemistry for this work. He demonstrated the accuracy of radiocarbon dating by accurately estimating the age of wood from a series of samples for which the age was known, including an ancient Egyptian royal barge of 1850 BC.[2][3]

Using this process:

An age of 4.55 ± 1.5% billion years, very close to today's accepted age, was determined by C.C. Patterson using uranium-lead isotope dating (specifically lead-lead dating) on several meteorites including the Canyon Diablo meteorite and published in 1956.[25]
Lead isotope isochron diagram showing data used by Patterson to determine the age of the Earth in 1956.

The quoted age of Earth is derived, in part, from the Canyon Diablo meteorite for several important reasons and is built upon a modern understanding of cosmochemistry built up over decades of research.

Most geological samples from Earth are unable to give a direct date of the formation of Earth from the solar nebula because Earth has undergone differentiation into the core, mantle, and crust, and this has then undergone a long history of mixing and unmixing of these sample reservoirs by plate tectonics, weathering and hydrothermal circulation.

All of these processes may adversely affect isotopic dating mechanisms because the sample cannot always be assumed to have remained as a closed system, by which it is meant that either the parent or daughter nuclide (a species of atom characterised by the number of neutrons and protons an atom contains) or an intermediate daughter nuclide may have been partially removed from the sample, which will skew the resulting isotopic date. To mitigate this effect it is usual to date several minerals in the same sample, to provide an isochron. Alternatively, more than one dating system may be used on a sample to check the date.

Some meteorites are furthermore considered to represent the primitive material from which the accreting solar disk was formed.[26] Some have behaved as closed systems (for some isotopic systems) soon after the solar disk and the planets formed. To date, these assumptions are supported by much scientific observation and repeated isotopic dates, and it is certainly a more robust hypothesis than that which assumes a terrestrial rock has retained its original composition.

Nevertheless, ancient Archaean lead ores of galena have been used to date the formation of Earth as these represent the earliest formed lead-only minerals on the planet and record the earliest homogeneous lead-lead isotope systems on the planet. These have returned age dates of 4.54 billion years with a precision of as little as 1% margin for error.[27]

Statistics for several meteorites that have undergone isochron dating are as follows:[28]

St. Severin (ordinary chondrite)
Pb-Pb isochron - 4.543 +/- 0.019 GY
Sm-Nd isochron - 4.55 +/- 0.33 GY
Rb-Sr isochron - 4.51 +/- 0.15 GY
Re-Os isochron - 4.68 +/- 0.15 GY
Juvinas (basaltic achondrite)
Pb-Pb isochron ..... 4.556 +/- 0.012 GY
Pb-Pb isochron ..... 4.540 +/- 0.001 GY
Sm-Nd isochron ..... 4.56 +/- 0.08 GY
Rb-Sr isochron ..... 4.50 +/- 0.07 GY
Allende (carbonaceous chondrite)
Pb-Pb isochron ..... 4.553 +/- 0.004 GY
Ar-Ar age spectrum ..... 4.52 +/- 0.02 GY
Ar-Ar age spectrum ..... 4.55 +/- 0.03 GY
Ar-Ar age spectrum ..... 4.56 +/- 0.05 GY

Helioseismic verification

The radiometric date of meteorites can be verified with studies of the Sun. The Sun can be dated using helioseismic methods that strongly agree with the radiometric dates found for the oldest meteorites.



Also other facts:

Amino acid racemization

Amino acid racemization dating is a technique that is used to date fossilized objects up to several millions of years in age. The naturally occurring amino acid molecules usually possess a carbon centre with four different groups joining it; a hydrogen atom, the amino group, the acid group (hence the name of the class of molecule) and a side chain, which is what distinguishes amino acids. In three dimensional space, such a molecular topology can occupy one of two configurations; D (right), or L (left), which are referred to as stereoisomers and are essentially mirror images of each other. The ratio of these two isomers is initially unequal (with only one exception, naturally occurring amino acids used in polypeptide synthesis are in the L form) but over time this will decay to a more balanced state in a process called racemization, where the ratio between L and D stereoisomers will be equal. Measuring the degree of racemization and other known quantities can give you an estimated age of the sample. By measuring the racemization of the amino acid isoleucine, for example, objects can be dated up to several million years old.[2] While it is true that there can be great variability on the rate at which amino acids undergo racemization, the changes in humidity, temperature, and acidity required to make the oldest known samples conform to a young earth (under 6000 years) view are completely unreasonable.
[edit] Baptistina asteroid family

The Baptistina asteroid family is a cluster of asteroids with similar orbits. This group was produced by a collision of an asteroid 60 kilometers in diameter with an asteroid 170 kilometers in diameter. Researchers from the Southwest Research Institute (SwRI) and the University of Prague have traced the orbits of these asteroids back from their current locations and estimated that the original collision happened 160 (±20) million years ago.[3] 2011 data from the Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer has revised the collision date to 80 million years ago.[4]
[edit] Continental drift
Fossil areas across landmasses.

Based on the continuity of fossil deposits and other geological formations between the South American and African tectonic plates, there is much evidence that at some point in history the two continents were part of the same landmass. Because tectonic drift is an incredibly slow process, the separation of the two landmasses would have taken millions of years. With modern technology, this can be accurately quantified. Satellite data has shown that the two continents are moving at a rate of roughly 2 cm per year (roughly the speed of fingernail growth), which means that for these diverging continents to have been together at some point in history, as all the evidence shows, the drift must have been going on for at least 200 million years.[5]
[edit] Coral

Corals are marine organisms that slowly deposit and grow upon the residues of their calcareous remains. These corals and residues gradually become structures known as coral reefs. This process of growth and deposition is extremely slow, and some of the larger reefs have been "growing" for hundreds of thousands of years. The Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority estimates that corals have been growing on the Great Barrier Reef for 25 million years, and that coral reef structures have existed on the Great Barrier Reef for at least 600,000 years.[6]
[edit] Cosmogenic nuclide dating

The influx of cosmic rays onto the earth continually produces a stream of cosmogenic nuclides in the atmosphere that will fall to the ground. By measuring the build-up of these nuclides on terrestrial surfaces, the length of time for which the surface has been exposed can be inferred. This technique can be used to date objects over millions of years old.[7]


[edit] Dendrochronology
Clearly defined tree rings.

Dendrochronology is a method of scientific dating which is based on annual tree growth patterns called tree rings. The rings are the result of changes in the tree's growth speed over the year (since trees grow faster in the summer and slower in the winter). The age of a tree can be found by counting the rings and is the only method on this list that can date events precisely to a single year.

Now, any date derived from one individual tree is not in itself contradictory to the recent creation doctrine, since even the longest lived types of tree do not live longer than 5,000 years or so. However, it is possible to extend the chronology back over many different trees. Because the thickness of tree rings varies with the climate, a sequence of thick ring, thin ring, thin ring, thick ring, thick ring, thick ring, thin ring, thick ring is strong evidence that the corresponding rings formed at the same time. By observing and analyzing the rings of many different trees from the same area, including fossil trees, the tree ring chronology has been pushed back in some areas as far as 11,000 years.[8]


[edit] Distant starlight
See the main article on this topic: Starlight problem

The fact that distant starlight can be seen on earth has always been a major problem for the young earth idea. Because the speed of light is finite, when you look at an object, what you are actually seeing is an image of that object from the past. On Earth, the delay caused by this phenomenon is incredibly minor — when you look at an object a mile away, you are seeing it as it was five microseconds ago. When you look at the sun, you are seeing it as it was 8.3 minutes ago.[9]

But on the cosmic scale of things, this delay is far from minor. When astronomers look at the closest star to Earth (Alpha Centauri), which is roughly four light years away, they are seeing the star as it was four years ago. When astronomers look at objects in the region of space known as the "Hubble ultra deep field", they are seeing the stars there as they were over ten billion years ago.

Therein lies the problem for young earth creationism; if the universe is only 6,000 years old, how can objects billions of light years away — and therefore billions of years old — be seen?

(Beware: Creationists will often retort with the following cop-out "if God can create the Earth and the stars, he can create the light between the two", implying that stars really don't have to be billions of years old for the light to reach Earth. They also like time dilation fields and changing the speed of light.)
[edit] Erosion

Many places on Earth show evidence of erosion taking place over very long time periods. The Grand Canyon, for instance, would have taken millions of years to form using the normal rate of erosion seen in water.[10] Nevertheless, Young Earthers insist it was cut in a few years following the Great Flood - but in order for this to happen the rocks of the Kaibab Plateau would have needed to have the solubility of granulated sugar, rather than the more solid stone that it's made of.[11] VenomFangX of YouTube claimed that the Grand Canyon would have formed in about "5 minutes", which at the very least would require the water to travel 5-6 times the speed of sound.[12]

In the case of the Yakima River in Washington State between Ellensburg and Yakima, the river meanders with many oxbows typical of a slow-moving river on a plain, yet it is set within a deep canyon with visible layers of erosion. The only possible explanation is that the pre-existing river maintained its original bed as slow tectonic forces caused the surrounding land to rise underneath and around it.
[edit] Fission track dating

Fission track dating is a radiometric dating technique that can be used to determine the age of crystalline materials that contain uranium. As uranium decays, it sends out atomic fragments, which leave scars or "fission tracks" in crystalline structures. Because decaying uranium emits fragments at a constant rate, the number of fission tracks correlates to the age of the object.[13] This method is generally held to be accurate, as it shows a high degree of concordance with other methods such as potassium-argon dating.[14]
[edit] Geomagnetic reversals

A geomagnetic reversal is a change in the polarity of the Earth's magnetic field. The frequency at which these reversals occur varies greatly, but they usually happen once every 50,000 to 800,000 years, and generally take thousands of years.[15] This fact is obviously inconsistent with the young earth idea; around 171 reversals are geologically documented, which would make the earth at least several millions of years old.[5]
[edit] Helioseismology

The composition of the sun changes as it ages. The differing composition changes the way sound waves behave inside the sun. Using helioseismic methods (models of pressure waves in the sun), the age of the sun can be inferred. Using this method, an Italian team came up with an age of 4.57 +/- 0.11 billion years.[16]
[edit] Human Y-chromosomal ancestry

The Y-chromosome, unlike most DNA, is inherited only from the father, which means that all DNA on the human Y chromosome comes from a single person. This does not mean that there was only one person alive at that time, but that a single man's Y-chromosomal DNA has out-competed the other strains and is now - not taking into account smaller and less drastic mutations - the only one left. Because the only factor affecting the makeup of the DNA on the chromosome is mutation, measuring mutation rates and extrapolating them backwards can tell you when this man lived. Calculations by the geneticist Spencer Wells have shown that this man lived around 60,000 years ago.[17] Other calculations put the time of Y-Adam as far back as 142,000 years ago[18], over twice that of Wells' date.
[edit] Ice layering
A section of an ice core with clearly defined annual layers.

Ice layering is a phenomenon that is almost universally observed in ice sheets and glaciers where the average temperature does not rise above freezing.

Annual differences in temperature and irradiation cause ice to form differently from year to year, and this generates alternating layers of light and dark ice. This method is considered a relatively accurate way to measure the age of an ice sheet, as only one layer will form per year. While there have been a few cases where several layers have formed per year, these incidents do not challenge the ability of ice layering to provide a minimum age, as these false layers can be discerned from the real thing upon close inspection.

Currently, the greatest number of layers found in a single ice sheet is over 700,000, which clearly contradicts the idea of an earth less than 10,000 years old. Even if one were to assume an absurdly high average of ten layers per year, the age demonstrated by this method would still be far greater than that suggested by young earth creationists.[19]

Nevertheless, the minimum age of the earth identified by these means is 160,000 years. (+/- 15,000 years.)
[edit] Impact craters

The number of impact craters can provide a probable lower limit on the age of the Earth. Asteroid strikes that can produce craters on the order of kilometers across are extremely infrequent occurrences; the chance of an asteroid with an Earth-crossing orbit actually striking the planet has been estimated at 2.5 x 10−9 yr−1, and when multiplied by the estimated number of Earth-crossing asteroids this approximates about one collision for every 3.2 million years.[20] If this frequency is correct, the number of impact craters on Earth were it only a few thousand years old should be very few. The most logical number of observable >1km impact craters for a young earth would in fact be something like zero — a number that is completely at odds with the observable evidence, since over one hundred such craters have been discovered .[21]
A crater 1,200 meters in diameter.

Even if creationists were to present some scenario in which many dozens of large asteroids could hit the earth in less than 6000 years, there are still tremendous problems with this idea. The largest asteroid impacts are some of the most catastrophic events the world has ever seen. In Antarctica there is a crater 500 km in diameter which is believed to have been caused by an asteroid 48 km in diameter roughly 250 million years ago.[22] How the life we see today could have survived such an incident (if it had occurred in the last 6000 years) is a serious problem for YECs; an asteroid impact that big would have led to the extinction of all medium to large size species, an event that — given the creationist model; short time frame, no evolution — the world would have never recovered from.
[edit] Iron-manganese nodule growth
An iron-manganese nodule

Beryllium-10 (10Be) produced by cosmic rays shows that iron-manganese nodule growth is one of the slowest geological phenomena. It takes several million years to form one centimeter (and some are the size of potatoes).[23] Cosmic ray produced 10Be is produced by the interactions of protons and neutrons with nitrogen and oxygen. It then reaches the earth via snow or rain. Since it is reactive, it gets absorbed by detritus material, within a timespan of about 300 years- very short compared to its half-life. Thusly, 10Be is excellent for use in dating marine sediment.
[edit] Lack of DNA in fossils

Deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA), the universal carrier of genetic information, is present in all organisms while they are alive. When they die, their DNA begins to decay under the influence of hydrolysis and oxidation. The speed of this decay varies on a number of factors. Sometimes, the DNA will be gone within one century, and in other conditions, it will persist for as many as one million years. The average amount of time detectable DNA will persist though is somewhere in the middle; given physiological salt concentrations, neutral pH, and a temperature of 15 °C, it would take around 100,000 years for all the DNA in a sample to decay to undetectable levels.[24]

If fossils of the dinosaurs were less than 6,000 years old, detectable fragments of DNA should be present in a sizable percent of dinosaur fossils, especially in the Arctic and Antarctic regions where the decay of DNA can be slowed down 10-25 fold. A claim that soft tissues in a Tyrannosaurus fossil had been recovered in 2005[25] have since been shown to be mistaken,[26] supporting the idea that dinosaur fossils are extremely old.[27]
[edit] Length of the prehistoric day

Work by John W. Wells of Cornell University, New York has shown that certain pieces of extremely old coral show evidence of a growth rate which reflects a time when a year had 400 days of 22 hours each.[28] Because the rate of change of the rotation of the earth is relatively predictable—about 0.005 seconds per year—one can calculate the last time a year had 400 days, which was about 370 million years ago (which is also about the same as radiometric dating of the coral).[29]
[edit] Lunar retreat

South African rocks studied by geologist Ken Eriksson contain ancient tidal deposits indicating that at some point in the past, the moon orbited "25-percent closer to Earth than it does today."[30] The distance between the earth and the moon is 384,403 kilometers, so for Ken Eriksson's work to fit with a YEC timescale the earth would have to have been receding at a speed greater than 15 kilometers per year. However, the moon is currently receding from the earth at a speed of 3.8 centimeters per year.[31]
[edit] Naica megacrystals

The Naica Mine of Chihuahua, Mexico is the home of some of the largest gypsum crystals on earth. Specimens in the area have been found to exceed 11 meters in length and 1 meter in width. Based on classical crystal growth theory, these crystals are older than one million years.[32]
[edit] Nitrogen impurities in natural diamonds

Nitrogen is the most common impurity in natural diamonds, sometimes by as much as 1% by mass. Recently formed diamonds, however, have very little nitrogen content. A major way synthetic diamonds are distinguished from natural ones is on the basis of nitrogen permeation. It takes long periods and high pressures for the nitrogen atoms to be squeezed into the diamond lattice. Research on the kinetics of the of the nitrogen aggregation at the University of Reading have suggested that a certain type of diamond, Ia diamonds, spend 200-2000 million years in the upper mantle.[33]
[edit] Oxidizable Carbon Ratio dating

Oxidizable Carbon Ratio dating is a method for determining the absolute age of charcoal samples with relative accuracy. This dating method works by measuring the ratio of oxidizable carbon to organic carbon. When the sample is freshly burned, there will be no oxidizable carbon because it has been removed by the combustion process. Over time this will change and the amount of organic carbon will decrease to be replaced by oxidizable carbon at a linear rate. By measuring the ratio of these two allotropes, one can determine ages of over 20,000 years ago with a standard error under 3%.[34]
[edit] Permafrost

The formation of permafrost (frozen ground) is a slow process. To be consistent with the young earth creationist model, which states that all sediment was deposited by the global flood, there would have to be absolutely no permafrost present at the end of the flood, because any permafrost that was present at the moment of creation would have been melted during the flood.

Because earth is a good insulator and permafrost forms downward from the surface, it would have taken much more than the few thousand years allotted by creation theory to produce some of the deepest permafrost. In the Prudhoe Bay oil fields of Alaska, the permafrost which extends over 600 meters into the ground is believed to have taken over 225,000 years to reach present depth.[35]
[edit] Petrified wood
See the main article on this topic: petrified forest

The process in which wood is preserved by permineralization, commonly known as petrification, takes extensive amounts of time. Gerald E. Teachout from the South Dakota Department of Game has written that "the mineral replacement process is very slow, probably taking millions of years".[36]

It is true that in the laboratory petrification can be achieved in a matter of months, but petrification is far slower in natural conditions.
[edit] Radioactive decay

Radioactive decay is the constant predictable decay of unstable atoms into more stable isotopes or elements. Measurements of atomic decay are generally considered one of the most accurate ways of measuring the age of an object, and these measurements form the basis for the scientifically accepted age of the Earth. There are many different variations of the radiometric dating technique such as radiocarbon, argon-argon, iodine-xenon, lanthanum-barium, lead-lead, lutetium-hafnium, neon-neon, potassium-argon, rhenium-osmium, rubidium-strontium, samarium-neodymium, uranium-lead, uranium-lead-helium, uranium-thorium, and uranium-uranium, of which every single one will date objects far older than 10,000 years.[37]

Because radiometric dating is one of the most commonly used methods of determining age, these techniques are under constant attack from young earth supporters. A few creationists, armed with only a cursory knowledge and a desire to think that they're better than scientific "experts", may misunderstand the process of radiometric decay and just not believe it works. This is often accompanied by ignoring the high concordance of radiometric methods.

However, the most frequently used method of attack is to give examples of objects of known ages that were dated incorrectly. These instances are by far the exception rather than the rule and are usually due to unforeseen contamination or other errors that can be quickly identified and compensated for. This is not "cheating" and forcing results to confirm to expectations as many young earth creationists may claim, it is making the data as accurate and precise as possible (if it is "cheating" then cleaning your camera lens to get a better and clearer picture is also cheating).
[edit] Relativistic jets
A drawing of quasar GB1508 and its relativistic jet

A relativistic jet is a jet of plasma that is ejected from some quasars and galaxy centers that have powerful magnetic fields. It is conjectured that the jets are driven by the twisting of magnetic fields in an accretion disk (the plate-like cloud of matter) found encircling many celestial objects. In super-massive bodies, immensely strong magnetic fields force plasma from the accretion disk into a jet that shoots away perpendicular to the face of the disk. In some cases, these columns of plasma have been found to extend far enough to refute the idea of a young universe.

For example, the quasar PKS 1127-145 has a relativistic jet exceeding one million light years in length.[38] Because the speed of light cannot be exceeded by any known form of matter, this column must be over one million years old. Moreover, these jets are generally billions of light years from Earth, meaning they were at least a million years old several billion years ago due, again, to the speed of light.
[edit] Rock varnish

Rock varnish is a coating that will form on exposed surface rocks. The varnish is formed as airborne dust accumulates on rock surfaces. This process is extremely slow; between 4 μm and 40 μm of material forms on the rock every thousand years, and instances of 40 μm of accumulation are very rare.[39] Because the rate of accumulation is generally constant, measuring the depth of the varnish can provide dates for objects up to 250,000 years old.[40]
[edit] Seabed plankton layering

Fossils of dead plankton that layer on the ocean floor is used to gauge temperatures from the past, based on the chemical changes of Crenarchaeota, a primitive phylum of microbe. Much like ice layering and dendrochronology, researchers drill through the ocean floor to extract samples which indicate annual temperature fluctuations in the plankton fossils, or "chemical rings" as it were. A 2004 pioneering expedition to the Arctic Ocean near the North Pole collected samples dating back to over 56 million years of temperature dating.[41]
[edit] Sedimentary varves

Varves are laminated layers of sedimentary rock that are most commonly laid down in glacial lakes. In the summer, light colored coarse sediment is laid down, while in the winter, as the water freezes and calms, fine dark silt is laid down. This cycle produces alternating bands of dark and light which are clearly discernible and represent, as a pair, one full year. As is consistent with the old earth view, many millions of varves have been found in some places. The Green River formation in eastern Utah is home to an estimated twenty million years worth of sedimentary layers.

The creationist response is that, instead of once per year, these varves formed many hundreds of times per year. There is, however, much evidence against accelerated formation of varves.

Pollen in varves is much more concentrated in the upper part of the dark layer, which is thought to represent spring. This is what would be expected if varves formed only once per year because pollen is much more common at this time.[42]
In Lake Suigetsu, Japan, there is a seasonal die-off of diatoms (calcareous algae) that will form layers in the bottom of the lake along with the sedimentary varves. If the 29 thousand varves in the lake formed more than once per year, there should be several sediment layers for every layer of deceased algae. However, for every one white layer of algae in Lake Suigetsu, there is only one varve.[43]
The varve thickness in the Green River formation correlates with both the 11 year sunspot cycle and the 21 thousand year orbital cycle of the earth.[44]

[edit] Space weathering

Space weathering is an effect that is observed on most asteroids. Extraterrestrial objects tend to develop a red tint as they age due to the effects of cosmic radiation and micrometeor impacts on their surfaces. Because this process proceeds at a constant rate, observing the color of an object can provide the basis for a generally reliable estimate. The ages provided by this dating technique exceed millions of years.[45]
[edit] Stalactites
A stalactite

A stalactite is a mineral deposit that is usually - though not exclusively - found in limestone caves. They are formed on the ceilings of caverns by the slow deposition of calcium carbonate and other minerals as they drip, in solution, over the stalactite. These formations take extremely lengthy periods to form; the average growth rate is not much more than 0.1 mm per year (10 centimetres (4 inches!) per thousand years). With such a slow rate of formation, if the earth was less than ten thousand years old we would expect to see the largest stalactites being not much longer than one metre.[29] In fact stalactites frequently reach from the ceiling to the floor of large caverns.

It is true that cases of accelerated growth have been observed in some stalactites, but rapid growths are only temporary, as the rapidly growing stalactites quickly deplete the surrounding limestone.[29]
[edit] Thermoluminescence dating

Thermoluminescence dating is a method for determining the age of objects containing crystalline minerals, such as ceramics or lava. These materials contain electrons that have been released from their atoms by ambient radiation, but have become trapped by imperfections in the mineral's structure. When one of these minerals is heated, the trapped electrons are discharged and produce light, and that light can be measured and compared with the level of surrounding radiation to establish the amount of time that has passed since the material was last heated (and its trapped electrons were last released).

Although this technique can date objects up to approximately 230,000 years ago, is only accurate on objects 300 to 10,000 years in age. This is, however, still over 4,000 years older than the creationist figure for the age of the earth.[46][47]
[edit] Weathering rinds

Weathering rinds are layers of weathered material that develop on glacial rocks. The weathering is caused by the oxidation of magnesium and iron rich minerals, and the thickness of this layer correlates with the age of a sample. Certain weathering rinds on basalt and andesite rocks in the eastern United States are believed to have taken over 300,000 years to form.[48]


Also read :

All viruses need enzymes from RNA so it can mutate and infect more animal groups and possibly in time humans. Viruses do not evolve since they require a external source of information to mutate into. It is not just mutating and then it can infect humans. It needs the information first which would mean a human would need to come in contact with the virus so the virus can get the information needed to mutate.

African people eat chimps as food u know . . . so the virus could have gotten in them and kept mutating until it changed to HIV.
 
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toothpaste

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that was sarcasm. not criticism. did you like it?

it was terrible and exactly what you did not want me to do. ironically, i never did anything like that.

i don't know how to say this nicely. you are ill-informed on natural selection.
 

Pretium

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Anorien16, Sorry, Everyone Makes Excuses About Having To Leave, And, I Respect That You Took Time To Put So Much Effort Into This Debate, I Cannot, However, Read Your Post At This Time, I Have To Go Work, Good By
 

Anorien16

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Anorien16, Sorry, Everyone Makes Excuses About Having To Leave, And, I Respect That You Took Time To Put So Much Effort Into This Debate, I Cannot, However, Read Your Post At This Time, I Have To Go Work, Good By

Oh ok, travel safe . . . u cld have just VMed me . . .
 

DimLord Urza

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"Someone has to be there to give life and someone has to be there to take life."

then who created your god? and the one before that?
and which one is it? Zeus? Thor? Ra? Flying Spaghetti Monster?

by your logic, disease, famine, torture, everything that is "bad" is created by your god.

if god did not, then god does nothing to prevent them. and god knows it too.

that is not a loving god. that is an abusive god who toys with us.

Before I make an attempt to address you, let me clarify that I am agnostic. I simply cannot say a God does or doesn't exist. I don't know. The concept of creation is very interesting. But, let's take into consideration a few of your points.

"If a God does exist, who created it? Who created the person who created God?" - Very simply, if a creator does exist, they are not bound to our physical natures. We like to prompt this question because it applies to us. We were born from our mother, who was born from their mother, and so on. This is simply how we look at creation, because of our experience with it. However, you can't ask a question like that about something that transcends everything we know of. It's simply a malformed question.

"Which God do you believe in? Zeus? Thor? Ra? The Flying Spaghetti Monster?" - These Gods are all terribly unlikely to be the speculated God that created everything. If we investigate God, we have to understand that there is absolutely no evidence of his existence in our realm of existence. Therefore, labeling him as Zeus, Thor, Ra, or The Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't make sense. He most likely carries little to no physical traits like these mentioned Gods here, since he has never existed physically.

"By your logic, disease, famine, torture, everything that is "bad" is created by your god.

if god did not, then god does nothing to prevent them. and god knows it too.

that is not a loving god. that is an abusive god who toys with us."

Who ever said that it was God's choice to bring us into this harsh reality? I would think that if such a God did exist, he would never force us into this world. If anything, we would have done it ourselves. The people who were burned, the people who were tortured, is it so hard to believe that they may have decided to experience that before they were born? Consciousness is a mysterious thing. Why is our consciousness suddenly tied with our physical existence when we are born?
You may ask: Why would somebody want to be tortured or burned?
I cannot speak the answer to that since the mere concept of what I'm talking about is beyond our understanding. I can give you a speculated answer though.
Perhaps the experience of torture, or being burned, is necessary on our path. Perhaps we exist for the experience of life, and continue on our path. The people who are brave enough to experience the life of torture or anything of the sort are true heroes. It all would have to tie in with the other reality, which I will not label heaven because I have no idea about it.
 

TeddyBoom

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I believe in God. Tho I must admit that I have doubted the existence of God too. But by the time flies I have come to understand that everything has a start and the one who starts it is God.

I was once told. "You can't see God or anything. If it exists then prove it to us. Show God to us."
I asked:"Do you have intellect/sanity? If you do show it to me. You believe in your intellect even if you don't see it."

You dont always have to see to believe. Though u have alot of evidence of Gods existence by just looking around. The sky, the sun, the earth, starts, mountains, humans, animals, plants and on. I can't get myself to believe that this world for example has always been existing without never being created. Or that it just popped here with all these details and unique things by an explosion. Same goes for humans.

I find Darwin's theory rather interesting yet it seems that there are alot of holes in it. It says that humans envolved from monkeys, but then how did monkeys come to earth or the single-celled organism we all came from long time ago? I dont think they popped out of nowhere. If humans evolved from monkeys long time ago how come there are still monkeys? Where are all the half-evolved animals? Science can't explain everything and no matter how much progress it makes there will always be things that science won't be able to explain.

Well yeah. This is just my way of thinking it. Everybody has his own beliefs and ways of thinking and we should respect them all. :D
 
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Uzamki Seerar

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religion without science is blind science without religion is lame. albert einstein
who has science and religoun = islam hands down
 
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