My interpretation is that God had faith that Adam n Eve being close to him n seeing his works and love would have faith in his will and listen to him. He believed faith was enough.
Also idk how to add more quotes on a mobile phone but in the Bible it is said that anyone who comes after me is a false prophet. Even in the Koran (how do u spell it correctly) its said that.
I juz can't believe that purely by chance the big bang happened n the moon appeared in the exact location n size to allow the earth to become habitable not to mention the location of the earth which again Is perfectly located.
Well, if our world hadn't developed the way it did now we couldn't be able to debate about it...maybe the mathematical chances seem to be low but it actually did happen and it cannot be denied. Winning the lottery (5 numbers out of 90) has a probability of about 1:43000000 . But if someone wins it you cannot say that "I dont believe it because its too unprobable." Besides in universe which is so huge chances work differently though I'm not a mathematician nor a physicist. And different life forms can develop under different circumstances so this 'perfect location' thing is just our thinking . I dont think that these parameters of our planet are the only ones which allow life to develop.
As expected of u sir, a much more satisfactory answer. So basically all of us follows the same god with just with different names. (Water is still just H2O in whatever language u call it) Let me assure u even Hinduism is monotheist in core untill it was corrupted. The veda tells us about the a great entity who is the root of all, the hindu gods are nothing but followers to him. The deities the hindu people worship are actually symbolic representations, they in truth represent the various aspects of the true God's prefectness and his creation, Swaraswati represents his knowledge, Kali his rage and power etc they represent the one True god viewed form different angles. The rites with fire, incense, flowers etc too have symbolic meaning if u know what the chanter is saying.... the priest worships these materials basically states in the chant: 'Oh great god who have ganted us this wonderful world with the sun and the moon and all the natural things we thank you for this gift and offer what u have given us in gratitude' where the fire represents the sun and moon, the incense stars and the sensual things, the fruits and flower the gifts of the natural world. But naturally with course of time all these system were corrupted and twisted to serve the needs of the ruling class and priests.
Also i agree with most of your view, u are like my Muslim friend Allahma Abul Kalam Azad . . . he too said similar things. People actually misinterpret Islamic principles because of the extremists, its actually a wonderful religion in the core with great explanation to the need of both war and peace. Once I heard of a Muslim sect in Pakistan: They once welcomed a Hindu guest in their home, but he was illegal immigrant and was arrested but strangely enough the head of the household went to jail with him just because he took him under his protection and it was the law of his sect to keep his word. I dont think anyone can beat this feat..... learn from this world learn, cos its absolutely true and u can see it in the either discovery or National Geography on the show 'Jailed Abroad' or something.
But i will still say the interpretations can be faulty at a times, u dont know which parts are original and which part are additions by others. For example Earth is not like a coin or the Sun does not revolve around the earth or the Heaven with angels is not above in the clouds . . . . these are proven untrue, all religions teaches us about love, peace and harmony at the core , it does not matter where is heaven? or the earth rotates on its axis or there are 100 sextillion stars in the universe and any one can have life on it. Every prophet taught us to love and care for each other but stupid humanity are always at each others throats.
Well, if our world hadn't developed the way it did now we couldn't be able to debate about it...maybe the mathematical chances seem to be low but it actually did happen and it cannot be denied. Winning the lottery (5 numbers out of 90) has a probability of about 1:43000000 . But if someone wins it you cannot say that "I dont believe it because its too unprobable." Besides in universe which is so huge chances work differently though I'm not a mathematician nor a physicist. And different life forms can develop under different circumstances so this 'perfect location' thing is just our thinking . I dont think that these parameters of our planet are the only ones which allow life to develop.
I'm only speaking on terms if we were closer to the sun we couldn't live here for it would b too hot. Same as if we further away it would b too cold/too great of a temperature difference from day to nite.
Also if the moon was any different because of earths rotation the earths crust that we live on most likely wouldn't have formed.
That right there is a lot of chance.
The lottery is man made so someone can win. Its highly unlikely due to # of numbers and the variations therein. But its made to b won.
Fine points you make though.
Random Quote I heard "no matter how much u argue politics/religion they will leave the conversation with the same thought as when they started"
I'm a mathematician n I knew a lil about the physics/math and the statical probabilities of everything happening juz perfectly.
I Believe In God = I Am An Atheist = me
I Am An Agnostic = not me
Atheist means you believe in a higher power, God or what ever you name it but its the same thing the belief in God is Atheist. People of religious groups tend to separated the 2 because in their mind if you don't believe what they believe then what ever you believe is just a fairy tale to them. So I can only guess with out reading any more your one of the main religions groups.
And what if i believe the Gilgamesh epos and say that Um-napisti was the one who built that ark... But seriously. You believe that about 3000-3500 years ago only 8 people survived a worldwide deluge and all animals (millions of species, 2 -or 7? the Bible is quite contradictory- of every species) had enough place in an ark of 40x20x30 meters (if my memory serves) and there was enough food for them for months and that civilization and culture and languages spread only in 1-2 hundred years (from 8 people)
The bible says all kinds of animals were on the ark not every species. Even then the ark could fit millions of different species of animals if you take the size and the average of all animals.
Well, if our world hadn't developed the way it did now we couldn't be able to debate about it...maybe the mathematical chances seem to be low but it actually did happen and it cannot be denied. Winning the lottery (5 numbers out of 90) has a probability of about 1:43000000 . But if someone wins it you cannot say that "I dont believe it because its too unprobable." Besides in universe which is so huge chances work differently though I'm not a mathematician nor a physicist. And different life forms can develop under different circumstances so this 'perfect location' thing is just our thinking . I dont think that these parameters of our planet are the only ones which allow life to develop.
Yes, but even the Big Bang theory in it of itself is still just that. The odds of it having actually happened are the same as those of every organized religion in the world. And while I also believe that the Earth can't possibly be the ONLY place in the universe to support life, whose to say that that life just appeared on its own? Science has proven many things over the years, but nobody has managed to find the formula for life in that time. Until scientists are able to make living cells out of non-living material, it's a secret known only to God in my opinion.
As expected of u sir, a much more satisfactory answer. So basically all of us follows the same god with just with different names. (Water is still just H2O in whatever language u call it) Let me assure u even Hinduism is monotheist in core untill it was corrupted. The veda tells us about the a great entity who is the root of all, the hindu gods are nothing but followers to him. The deities the hindu people worship are actually symbolic representations, they in truth represent the various aspects of the true God's prefectness and his creation, Swaraswati represents his knowledge, Kali his rage and power etc they represent the one True god viewed form different angles. The rites with fire, incense, flowers etc too have symbolic meaning if u know what the chanter is saying.... the priest worships these materials basically states in the chant: 'Oh great god who have ganted us this wonderful world with the sun and the moon and all the natural things we thank you for this gift and offer what u have given us in gratitude' where the fire represents the sun and moon, the incense stars and the sensual things, the fruits and flower the gifts of the natural world. But naturally with course of time all these system were corrupted and twisted to serve the needs of the ruling class and priests.
Also i agree with most of your view, u are like my Muslim friend Allahma Abul Kalam Azad . . . he too said similar things. People actually misinterpret Islamic principles because of the extremists, its actually a wonderful religion in the core with great explanation to the need of both war and peace. Once I heard of a Muslim sect in Pakistan: They once welcomed a Hindu guest in their home, but he was illegal immigrant and was arrested but strangely enough the head of the household went to jail with him just because he took him under his protection and it was the law of his sect to keep his word. I dont think anyone can beat this feat..... learn from this world learn, cos its absolutely true and u can see it in the either discovery or National Geography on the show 'Jailed Abroad' or something.
But i will still say the interpretations can be faulty at a times, u dont know which parts are original and which part are additions by others. For example Earth is not like a coin or the Sun does not revolve around the earth or the Heaven with angels is not above in the clouds . . . . these are proven untrue, all religions teaches us about love, peace and harmony at the core , it does not matter where is heaven? or the earth rotates on its axis or there are 100 sextillion stars in the universe and any one can have life on it. Every prophet taught us to love and care for each other but stupid humanity are always at each others throats.
I agree. we must believe in God. All this war, nowadays, religion is just pushed into politics, and it is made the excuse to inflame the masses to fight. You being Hindu and Indian, I can pretty much understand.(we being arch enemies since partition I'm from Pakistan )
I'm only speaking on terms if we were closer to the sun we couldn't live here for it would b too hot. Same as if we further away it would b too cold/too great of a temperature difference from day to nite.
Also if the moon was any different because of earths rotation the earths crust that we live on most likely wouldn't have formed.
That right there is a lot of chance.
The lottery is man made so someone can win. Its highly unlikely due to # of numbers and the variations therein. But its made to b won.
Fine points you make though.
Random Quote I heard "no matter how much u argue politics/religion they will leave the conversation with the same thought as when they started"
I'm a mathematician n I knew a lil about the physics/math and the statical probabilities of everything happening juz perfectly.
Ah very interesting I'm just reading a book of Mérő László (maybe you know him) about game theory and it has interesting and valid points saying for example that Nature and evolution uses mixed strategies so probability and chances have a huge role in our world. But if you are a scholar then you would beat me to the ground if I engaged into a scientific debate so I humbly give up arguing...we couldnt convince each other anyways. But nature and evoulution strives for higher-organised states of existence so if it realizes by chance that our so called life is more viable then no wonder things are this way . :shrug:
I don't believe in the Bible, the Church, or any other man-made institutions or objects. I won't go back and forth proving that science is right, or religion is right. In my opinion, the argue between and atheist and a christian/muslim/etc is one of the most destructive and idiotic conversations you will ever hear.
You cannot convince a religious man he is wrong, or viceversa. I just choose to shut up in this situation. Have fun.
I agree. we must believe in God. All this war, nowadays, religion is just pushed into politics, and it is made the excuse to inflame the masses to fight. You being Hindu and Indian, I can pretty much understand.(we being arch enemies since partition I'm from Pakistan )
I dont consider u guys arch nemesis, just mislead like us . . . people use religion to inflame not for peace and love witch is its original purpose. Damn i even had a super duper ultra omega crush on a Muslim girl named Salma Farhana Aman . . . . we are all humans, we all want peace and companionship. But people instead of concentrating on our similarities, concentrate on our differences . . . to them a slight word or action or the very existence of a difference justifies slaughter of children, rape, murder etc
By the way i m not a true Hindu if it is not true Hinduism. I m more of a deist.
I am agnostic the reason why i don't "believe in god' is because it sounds to coincident that the god HAS to care about your or love you in some way or when people don't know something they use the phrase "obviously it was god" until it is scientifically proven then they still say that God created these thing(s).
Words of the most Muslims are to me the words of the people who came to our lands, slaughtered our ancestors, destroyed our kingdom and still trying to blow us up etc so I will need a little convincing. As for books and prophets, i read the deeds and saying of Jesus . . . also researched about Buddhism and a talked to one Buddhist . . . . . what makes you special from them?
As for other questions:
how will be the people who were born before Jesus or Mohemmad (praise they be) will be judged? They didnt actually get the massage. Also how many generations of Chinese, Japanese, Australian, Native American, Indian etc people had to wait till they got the massage? Its not fair and equal treatment is it?
and u dont knw why they did so.... like i said, u need to learn history...^^
and yea there was not even a single nation to which message of One God ALLAH was not send.....
124000 Prophets were send...^^
so on the Day of Judgement, u cant say that the message of One God Allah wasnt send to u...
I'm only speaking on terms if we were closer to the sun we couldn't live here for it would b too hot. Same as if we further away it would b too cold/too great of a temperature difference from day to nite.
Also if the moon was any different because of earths rotation the earths crust that we live on most likely wouldn't have formed.
That right there is a lot of chance.
The lottery is man made so someone can win. Its highly unlikely due to # of numbers and the variations therein. But its made to b won.
Fine points you make though.
Random Quote I heard "no matter how much u argue politics/religion they will leave the conversation with the same thought as when they started"
I'm a mathematician n I knew a lil about the physics/math and the statical probabilities of everything happening juz perfectly.
Well i m no scholar there is also the possibility that things did went wrong, we are just the result of an accident. But no, we humans who are just a spot on the sextrillions of planets has to have a greater meaning and has to be important, isnt that ego speaking there? There are about 10000000000000000000000 estimated stars which wld mean there are basically 80000000000000000000000 planets out of which a recently discovered planet seems to have earth like qualities, so there are a lot of things that can happen between that number. What was the possibilty of Newton's apple incident? Very little. But every man who sat beneath any fruit tree had the chance of discovering Gravity, but no it happened to Newton and thats why he is famous today. U can call that accident or fate or God's plan etc but can u prove anything?
I don't believe in the Bible, the Church, or any other man-made institutions or objects. I won't go back and forth proving that science is right, or religion is right. In my opinion, the argue between and atheist and a christian/muslim/etc is one of the most destructive and idiotic conversations you will ever hear.
You cannot convince a religious man he is wrong, or viceversa. I just choose to shut up in this situation. Have fun.
Perhaps on an internet forum it is. But in real life, over 20 thousand convert to Islam yearly in the US alone, All because of conversations such as these.
LOL just LOL . . . african, native american tribals didnt have a proper written language let alone records, also how can Noah's children have so many different languages when they originate from the same person? Dont say devil came and did his hocus phocus and volia everything changed in an instant . . . . also if God cared why didnt he prevent them?
Another thing:
Adam and Eve: Ok our entire poplulation of humans from the first two humans or the noah couple .... granting that can anyone explain how Adam and Eve or the Noah portrayed as a white couple is also the ancestors of blacks, Chinese, native American etc. Adam and Eve cld not have been multicolored so that their children had such a wide variety of characteristics. Also how come some of their children built ships and travelled to the continent of America and Australia (a place they had no knowledge about until the AD 1400s) yet no one remembered. Also if Adam and eve ate the fruit of knowledge and recived tru knowledge, how come they cldnt build super computers in their time or found out that earth rotated around the Sun or that eclipse was a natural phenomena?
Much more wonderful, my country men had children, infants even . . . the British came and forced so much taxes upon them that their wives and children had to starve while the British lived in luxury, ur gods shows his wrath against victims and while the culprits enjoy wealth? Wonderful justice system u have up there. I wld have rather died at 7 if your God saved all those that died then.
Dont pretend, Americans were actually British colonists, so not only the Americans are responsible. So your answer to converting non believers is to torture and enslave them?
Wonderful, then its coverting them using force and fear. The africans who became great are great because they were talented not because they were Christians.
As far as i know in Christianity there is saying: "repent and you shall be forgiven" ...... is disobeying a command so great a crime? As u say they were pure of heart, and pure hearted people cant do evil, and God should have known that. I dont think Adam and Eve didnt want to repent, so why wasnt they forgiven instead his entire innocent blood line condemned to suffer. Is having knowledge is so dangerous that it brought about such a heavy punishment? If murders can be forgiven by repentance why a simple innocent mistake, which was caused by God's strongest archangel is unforgivable?
1.At the tower of Babel that was when many languages came to being instead of just one language for all. At Noah's time there was only one language.
2.Just because anyone in the Bible is drawn, painted, etc... as a white person does not mean they were white.
3.Adam and Eve would need to have all the DNA information for all of the different kinds of people on earth. Tigers and Lions though they look very different are closely related. So much so that they can breed with each other. Showing that at one point there was a cat that they both came from which had the DNA that was capable of having that big difference in cats. Same goes with canines as proven with the many different breeds.
4.The fruit of knowledge gave you the knowledge of good and evil not the knowledge to build a supercomputer. Even if it did they would still have to get all of the materials to make one, obtain a power source, etc... The many things that we use to make a computer within their lifetime which you could not possibly say that they could do that.
5.Repentance of your sins is only possible because God died for your sins. Before Jesus died you had to make a sacrifice. Many times they used a lamb which is why Jesus is many times referred to as the Lamb of God.
I know this explanation and it just says that practically god is playing a game or experimenting with us and its not fun- at least not for me and for millions of people suffering...So morally this whole Christian theory is unacceptable. And you worship a god like this...
My interpretation is that God had faith that Adam n Eve being close to him n seeing his works and love would have faith in his will and listen to him. He believed faith was enough.
Also idk how to add more quotes on a mobile phone but in the Bible it is said that anyone who comes after me is a false prophet. Even in the Koran (how do u spell it correctly) its said that.
I juz can't believe that purely by chance the big bang happened n the moon appeared in the exact location n size to allow the earth to become habitable not to mention the location of the earth which again Is perfectly located.
Well i m no scholar there is also the possibility that things did went wrong, we are just the result of an accident. But no, we humans who are just a spot on the sextrillions of planets has to have a greater meaning and has to be important, isnt that ego speaking there? There are about 10000000000000000000000 estimated stars which wld mean there are basically 80000000000000000000000 planets out of which a recently discovered planet seems to have earth like qualities, so there are a lot of things that can happen between that number.
I find it funny how people believe in a creator who has been existing for eternity for no reason and once the idea to create other beings occured to him.
1.At the tower of Babel that was when many languages came to being instead of just one language for all. At Noah's time there was only one language.
2.Just because anyone in the Bible is drawn, painted, etc... as a white person does not mean they were white.
3.Adam and Eve would need to have all the DNA information for all of the different kinds of people on earth. Tigers and Lions though they look very different are closely related. So much so that they can breed with each other. Showing that at one point there was a cat that they both came from which had the DNA that was capable of having that big difference in cats. Same goes with canines as proven with the many different breeds.
4.The fruit of knowledge gave you the knowledge of good and evil not the knowledge to build a supercomputer. Even if it did they would still have to get all of the materials to make one, obtain a power source, etc... The many things that we use to make a computer within their lifetime which you could not possibly say that they could do that.
5.Repentance of your sins is only possible because God died for your sins. Before Jesus died you had to make a sacrifice. Many times they used a lamb which is why Jesus is many times referred to as the Lamb of God.
Well u dont seem to know anything about a lot of things:
1. LOL, if there was only one language why was there the need of changing it to different sects? There is no real logic behind it. Also all languages didnt just come into being, damn Native Austalians dont have a written language. Also is all languages have common ancestry why is Arabic, Chinese, Japanese written in a different manner? Also wont the word of God propagted better if there was one language only? Also why isnt this fact recorded in other languages and culture? Also why does the Bible dont give reference to America or Australia?
Hebrew died before the time of the Roman Occupation (the Jews in Jesus's times actually spoke Aramaic -- not Hebrew), and the Hebrew language became revived in the Zionist Movement of the late 19th Century, so it's not the "oldest spoken language" in the world.
Sanskrit also died a few thousand years ago. But most of the major languages of India & Pakistan derive from Sanskrit ... much like Latin died and no one speaks Latin anymore, but French, Spanish, Italian came from Latin.
A language is considered "dead" when it has no more native speakers. Langauges evolve and change over time. English for example sound and looks completely different than it did just 100 years ago.
The Basque are probably a pocket of people who speak a really old *continuous* language directly linked to one of humans earliest language systems. Most scholars think they are pre-Indo-European peoples in Europe.
I'd think some of the languages in Iraq or Iran might be some of the oldest *continuous* languages spoken (esp. Assyrian or "Neo-Aramaic" in Iraq since they can be traced back in writting almost 5,000 years). But since these languages can trace themsleves back to older parent languages, they are proably no more than a few thousand years old.
2. The Bible said the earth was flat, the Sun revolved around the Earth (Poor Galelio, Copernicus), Strange stories behind the Eclipse, Heavens are up in the cloud etc but guess what all that was wrong. Also i understand Adam and Eve having *** to have children, but whith whom did children of Adam and Eve have *** with? (I will ignore the nuber of children they said to have reproduced, adam said to have lived 930 year, LOL) Surely brothers had *** with their sisters, that makes incest lawful right?
3. Be careful ur giving credit evolution theory. LOL perhaps u dont know that black people can give birth only to black children, chinese only to keeds with smaller eyes etc or if ur assumption was correct we would see a white Chinese among the african blacks , a white black (black people have a distingushed facial feature) among the Chinese and a poodle among the bull dogs. If they had common DNA materials they wld have multitude of variations.
4. Well copper, iron, silicon etc existed from the very begining. How come they discover aluminium only few hundred years ago. Its not even hard to find some mineral grains and make fire works? Its even easier to make bricks and use mortar, its not even hard to make a wind mill or make a kite to fly. This can go on.
Also how can punishing some one who didnt have sense of good or bad is appropriate? They are like innocent children.
5. Cant really argue with that, but a lot of people are already in hell for that delay. That is not really fair treatment.
and u dont knw why they did so.... like i said, u need to learn history...^^
and yea there was not even a single nation to which message of One God ALLAH was not send.....
124000 Prophets were send...^^
so on the Day of Judgement, u cant say that the message of One God Allah wasnt send to u...
Well then Basically all the old religions of the world was started by those 124000 prophets . . . then basically all -ists are actually worshiping the same god in different form and interpretations. Great there is no problems i guess.
Also u think that the Muslim Invaders came to convert us to Islam? wonderful, but is killing people and taking aways their land etc is the best way to convert people?, u may not know but killing your parents, uncles and relatives makes you angry. Also i think its stated in the Islamic laws that none should convert to Islam except for the love of Allah (praise be upon him) . . . So is killing people off a great way to convert according to Islam it self? At least the Sufi saints and Pirs like Hazrat Khawaja Muin Uddin Chisti (praise be upon him) have better sense and did a better job (Did u hear Carla Bruni and Sarkozy visted his Dargha and have his prayers answered, thats the way to convert).
I'm from Pakistan 
