Confused on Uchiha vs. Senju

[hwrdprkns]

So, Kishi has said throughout the manga that Senju Hashirama and Uchiha Madara were equals and battled equally. Thus, Uchiha and Senju were "equal" but with opposite ideologies.

However, has there been any evidence of that fact? Without the Nine Tails, Naruto (Senju heir or whatever lineage he is) would be nothing against Sauske.

Itachi, Edo Madara, Sauske (can I include Tobi in this list) have been shown to be vastly more powerful than their adversaries.

I don't need to explain how OP Itachi is, that's clear.

Edo Madara, I'm convinced, would be able to own the 5 Kage with/without the Senju "help" that he's getting.

Sauske has shown time and time again that he is far beyond all the other shinobi in his age group, not to mention that he caught Hachibi.

Assuming Tobi is an Uchiha, it's taking 2 of the Leaf's most valuable shinobi to even put a crack in his mask. Had Naruto not been there, I'm sure Guy and Hatake would have been gone a long time ago.


So, what do you think? Am I missing something here, or is there a valid argument that shows the consistency of what Kishi says throughout the manga?

 

[~MC117~]

So, Kishi has said throughout the manga that Senju Hashirama and Uchiha Madara were equals and battled equally. Thus, Uchiha and Senju were "equal" but with opposite ideologies.

However, has there been any evidence of that fact? Without the Nine Tails, Naruto (Senju heir or whatever lineage he is) would be nothing against Sauske.

Itachi, Edo Madara, Sauske (can I include Tobi in this list) have been shown to be vastly more powerful than their adversaries.

I don't need to explain how OP Itachi is, that's clear.

Edo Madara, I'm convinced, would be able to own the 5 Kage with/without the Senju "help" that he's getting.

Sauske has shown time and time again that he is far beyond all the other shinobi in his age group, not to mention that he caught Hachibi.

Assuming Tobi is an Uchiha, it's taking 2 of the Leaf's most valuable shinobi to even put a crack in his mask. Had Naruto not been there, I'm sure Guy and Hatake would have been gone a long time ago.


So, what do you think? Am I missing something here, or is there a valid argument that shows the consistency of what Kishi says throughout the manga?

We haven't seen enough from them and when the hell did sasuke caught the hachibi? :sy:
Also Naruto isn't 100% senju and we don't know if tsunade is 100% senju either

 

[ninjastormgenaration33]

1.Naruto is Uzamaki
2.Tsunade is the only Senju member left
3.Uchiha>Senju

 

[AP2k]

So naruto doesnt get the fox, but sasuke gets oros powers and itachis eyes? Seems legit.

 

[itachifan7]

1.Naruto is Uzamaki
2.Tsunade is the only Senju member left
3.Uchiha>Senju

wow that is logicxd

 

[Netsui]

1. Sasuke didn't catch the Hachibi. He caught a tentacle.
2. Naruto isn't a Senju, he is an Uzumaki. Uzumaki are distantly related to Senju, I think.
3. Tsunade is the only Senju left.
4. If Naruto didn't have Kurama he would practice more with SM.

 

[saaaaaadpanda]

1. We don't know what Naruto is or would have been capable of without Kurama. You can't use that as an argument. It's like saying Sasuke would be nothing without Sharingan.

2. While you've listed a number of powerful Uchiha who are indeed amongst the most powerful ninja, very few Senju have been so heavily covered. Therefore we can't make an accurate comparison.

3. If Kishi says they're equal, they are. Get over it, fanboy.

 

[Ressurected Crow]

Take the Sharingan from the Uchiha, if you want to take Kurama from Naruto. It's a double standard if you don't.

 

[Champ]

Yea the 5 Uchiha's we know about Madara, Tobi, Sasuke, Itachi & Shisui would own NU

 

[El Batman]

Without the fox Naruto won't have so spend a chunk of his chakra trying to supress it from taking over. So his chakra will be immense. Also don't underestimate sage mode. Increased speed, stength and stamina to the point where he can take on the 6 paths of pain (and remember Naruto also has summons like Gamabunta). The fact that he is an Uzumaki just allows him to take more of a brutal beating that Sasuke. Naruto could outlast Sasuke any day, even without kurama.

 

[sharingan17]

Ur clearly an uchiha fanboy, take kurama from naruto and sharingan from sasuke Naruto>>>>>>>>>>>>sasuke like that. Ur trying to make other clans look bad. Hashirama is superior to madara, don't u think hashi defeated both madara and kyuubi for a reason, tthe power of madara conbined with the strongest tail beast besides juubi both defeated by a single man, name hashirama senju.

 

[hwrdprkns]

Ur clearly an uchiha fanboy, take kurama from naruto and sharingan from sasuke Naruto>>>>>>>>>>>>sasuke like that. Ur trying to make other clans look bad. Hashirama is superior to madara, don't u think hashi defeated both madara and kyuubi for a reason, tthe power of madara conbined with the strongest tail beast besides juubi both defeated by a single man, name hashirama senju.

Everyone seems to be using this argument against me.

To say "take Kurama from Naruto is like taking Sharingan from Sauske" is dumb. Naruto was given Kurama, not born with it. Take Orochimaru from Sauske -- and he still has Susanoo, Amaterasu, Genjutsu. GLHF Sennin mode Naruto.

I'm not an Uchiha fanboy, or a fanboy period. I'm just saying that the Uchiha seem vastly more powerful than any other single bloodline/clan at the most basic level.

The Tsunade argument is one that I hadn't considered, but it's hard for me to believe that she could beat a Tobi/Itachi/Madara.

 

[icedonkey]

Naruto's a Uzumaki.
We can't judge Naruto without Kurama because he built his fighting style around having HUGE amounts of chakra(Kurama)

no doubt he PROBABLY would be weaker without Kurama we can't say for sure.



P.S. Tsunade is the only confirmed person (still alive) to have direct Senju blood.
The Senju unlike the Uchiha don't have defining looks or abilities, so therefor there are probably many Senju blood relatives that are still alive
their blood is just probably deluded because they don't share common characteristics to keep them together.

at least that's what the Naruto wiki said.

 

[Like I Care]

rivals at the best

 

[SilverSlick]

Dude, you talkin about Senju or are you talkin about Uzumaki's?

 

[psukkar]

what does naruto, gai and kahashi got to do with the senju?


1) naruto is an uzumaki, which have different strengths from the senju clan. They are distant blood relatives, thats fact.
2) Tsuade is part senju and part uzumaki as either her mother or father is only half senju and half uzumaki.

3) Any one saying uchiha > senju is just under the affects of genjutsu, someone needs to slap them out of it.

The sole reason madara is powerful now is because he took hasihrama dna. Did i meantion the greatest of the uchiha became hasihrama's bitch.

 

[D3A]

Just becuase the leaders were equal doesnt mean the clans are. more importantly, Hashirama was way above Madara. Taking down his EMS, Perfect Susanoo, AND Kyuubi WITH all of its chakra.

To take away Kyuubi from Naruto is to take away Sasukes Sharingan. So lets see how that plays out...

Sasuke w/o sharingan: NO Amaterasu, powerful genjutsu, or EMS. Nothing but taijutsu and firestyle (chidori requires sharingan to be able to react to opponents movements, though he could still use it)

Naruto w/o Kyuubi: NO Kyuubi, BUT he has SM, making him pretty much unbeatable for a while. Frog Katas, Natural energy, a 1 hit KO attack that he can spam out the ass. SUMMONINGS, unbelievably high chakra reserves(Uzumaki trait), and uzumaki longevity making him last much longer than Sasuke.

No Kyuubi vs No Sharingan: Naruto wins

Its the same when they both have those powerups too.
Bijuu Mode = Susanoo (Bijuu mode is stronger though)
KCM = MS/EMS (KCM speed advantage)
not to mention how Naruto doesnt get exhausted in those modes since he never actually uses his own chakra.

Face it, Naruto is a tank that can pretty much never tire out. Can he beat Sasuke, hell yes, will the fight be an easy one, of course not. But Naruto wins either way

 

[hwrdprkns]

Just becuase the leaders were equal doesnt mean the clans are. more importantly, Hashirama was way above Madara. Taking down his EMS, Perfect Susanoo, AND Kyuubi WITH all of its chakra.

To take away Kyuubi from Naruto is to take away Sasukes Sharingan. So lets see how that plays out...

Sasuke w/o sharingan: NO Amaterasu, powerful genjutsu, or EMS. Nothing but taijutsu and firestyle (chidori requires sharingan to be able to react to opponents movements, though he could still use it)

Naruto w/o Kyuubi: NO Kyuubi, BUT he has SM, making him pretty much unbeatable for a while. Frog Katas, Natural energy, a 1 hit KO attack that he can spam out the ass. SUMMONINGS, unbelievably high chakra reserves(Uzumaki trait), and uzumaki longevity making him last much longer than Sasuke.

No Kyuubi vs No Sharingan: Naruto wins

Its the same when they both have those powerups too.
Bijuu Mode = Susanoo (Bijuu mode is stronger though)
KCM = MS/EMS (KCM speed advantage)
not to mention how Naruto doesnt get exhausted in those modes since he never actually uses his own chakra.

Face it, Naruto is a tank that can pretty much never tire out. Can he beat Sasuke, hell yes, will the fight be an easy one, of course not. But Naruto wins either way

Read my previous post. Why would you take away Sauske's Sharingan? He was born with that -- was Naruto born with Kyuubi?

Also, am I wrong or has it been pretty much said that Sauske and Naruto are just like Madara and Hashirama. They are continuing the age-old battle of the Sage's sons.

 

[sharingan17]

Everyone seems to be using this argument against me.

To say "take Kurama from Naruto is like taking Sharingan from Sauske" is dumb. Naruto was given Kurama, not born with it. Take Orochimaru from Sauske -- and he still has Susanoo, Amaterasu, Genjutsu. GLHF Sennin mode Naruto.

I'm not an Uchiha fanboy, or a fanboy period. I'm just saying that the Uchiha seem vastly more powerful than any other single bloodline/clan at the most basic level.

The Tsunade argument is one that I hadn't considered, but it's hard for me to believe that she could beat a Tobi/Itachi/Madara.

Ok kurama was given to naruto. Itachi gave ms to sasuke, so if it wasn't for itachi he would still have normal sharingan, wats more even when he had ms tobi stated naruto is stronger than u,

 

[Champ]

Ok kurama was given to naruto. Itachi gave ms to sasuke, so if it wasn't for itachi he would still have normal sharingan, wats more even when he had ms tobi stated naruto is stronger than u,

Itachi didn't give Sasuke MS he awaken them, and provide a manga scan of when tobi said that