Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside)

raju22

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Well I think that Kisame can start the battle against the two of them and with Thousand shark feeding while the Mizukage uses his Illusion Genjutsu.

Kisame Should immediately take control of the Battle field with thousand sharks feeding to obliterate the Majority of the Hearts if Kakuza releases them in their creature form.


His follow up should be Water release great exploding waves to take control of the terrain, mean while the Mizukage will act as bait for Muu (He will be a more viable target for the Muu as he won't be using distracting and overwhelming attacks) to lure him out of hiding with an attack that won't work (since the Mizukage that Muu attacks won't be the real one).

As Shown Here

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It might be assumed that the Muu should be able to detect the Mizukage, but the Mizukage is using a Genjutsu, and the Illusion of him is out in the open, so Muu may not even try and uses extensive senor techs.


Immediately after Exploding waves Shark Dance Water Prison should be used followed by fusion & Great shark bullet.

Kisames destroys Kakuza with Great Shark bullet as Kakuza lacks the Tai or Kenjutsu range to disrupt it.

Meanwhile since Muu was drawn into the range of Shark Dance Water Prison by the Mizukages Illusion Genjutsu, he will also be trapped unable to escape from the prison he is now in range of both Kisames and the Mizukages attacks.

He won't be able to escape due to the strength of the prison as well as this ability to move as it's contents move.

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The Mizukage can end the fight by using his exploding body clone within the prison multiple times.

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The explosion should be contained efficiently due to the strength of the Water Prisons barriers, this means Muu will be exposed to an onslaught of power explosions.


Using electrocution while in the prison will expose Muu's location allowing Kisame who is faster than pretty much anyone else in water to defeat him with Shark bullet, so Muu can either wait to be destroyed by the explosions or reveal his location within the prison.

Kisame will not be effected by Ninjutsu of any kind from Muu while in Great shark bullet mode.
Hmm.. it is a nice stretegy but it is not enough to take control of the battle, kisame will need Lots of water to perform Suiton: Senshokukō, since those Sharks are made out of water and thus all off them are vulnerable to Kakuzu's Raiton: Gian,

And Kisame himself would be in grave danger if he is in contact with the jutsu since he has no affinity to Raiton like Kakashi.

He need Mizukage by his side to stand a chance against Kakuzu,and meanwhile 'The Mummy' can wait for a chance to hit them, Kakuzu would not mind destroying one or two of his heart's if it kills his enemy's, and as much as i hate to say it Muu really has a one shot KO jutsu and if caught, neither Kisame nor Mizukage can do anything about it and if Kakuzu is not in the range he can disintegrate Kisame along with his jutsu.
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Well I think that Kisame can start the battle against the two of them and with Thousand shark feeding while the Mizukage uses his Illusion Genjutsu.

Kisame Should immediately take control of the Battle field with thousand sharks feeding to obliterate the Majority of the Hearts if Kakuza releases them in their creature form.


His follow up should be Water release great exploding waves to take control of the terrain, mean while the Mizukage will act as bait for Muu (He will be a more viable target for the Muu as he won't be using distracting and overwhelming attacks) to lure him out of hiding with an attack that won't work (since the Mizukage that Muu attacks won't be the real one).

As Shown Here

You must be registered for see images

It might be assumed that the Muu should be able to detect the Mizukage, but the Mizukage is using a Genjutsu, and the Illusion of him is out in the open, so Muu may not even try and uses extensive senor techs.


Immediately after Exploding waves Shark Dance Water Prison should be used followed by fusion & Great shark bullet.

Kisames destroys Kakuza with Great Shark bullet as Kakuza lacks the Tai or Kenjutsu range to disrupt it.

Meanwhile since Muu was drawn into the range of Shark Dance Water Prison by the Mizukages Illusion Genjutsu, he will also be trapped unable to escape from the prison he is now in range of both Kisames and the Mizukages attacks.

He won't be able to escape due to the strength of the prison as well as this ability to move as it's contents move.

You must be registered for see images




The Mizukage can end the fight by using his exploding body clone within the prison multiple times.

You must be registered for see images

The explosion should be contained efficiently due to the strength of the Water Prisons barriers, this means Muu will be exposed to an onslaught of power explosions.


Using electrocution while in the prison will expose Muu's location allowing Kisame who is faster than pretty much anyone else in water to defeat him with Shark bullet, so Muu can either wait to be destroyed by the explosions or reveal his location within the prison.

Kisame will not be effected by Ninjutsu of any kind from Muu while in Great shark bullet mode.
nice detail but you forget kakuzu and muu aren't gonna just sit there and not attack
if the mizukaage uses his illussion muu is a sensory type
he'd know where the real one is also
kisame wouldn't be able to take on the both of them at once muu can go invisible mode
those water sharks kisame is going to spam
kakuzu has different elements to counter this easily
you know what i am going to call this a draw now
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

+Rep for another awesome thread man.

But if Muu can pull off a dust release like what Oonoki did, then i'm pretty sure he would solo
 

Maunten

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

nice detail but you forget kakuzu and muu aren't gonna just sit there and not attack
if the mizukaage uses his illussion muu is a sensory type
he'd know where the real one is also
kisame wouldn't be able to take on the both of them at once muu can go invisible mode
those water sharks kisame is going to spam
kakuzu has different elements to counter this easily
you know what i am going to call this a draw now

Well as you know Kisame has small scale attacks too, it is because I know both of them are not going to sit there that I used large scale attacks to open.

Kakuza's elements can only counter things in the same scale as them, it gets to a point where element weakness won't work as well.

Even though Muu is a censor type he will have to get in range to try any attacks, and the moment he does he exposes him self.

Kisame's speed has been noted so he should be able to avoid dust release or aid the Mizu if he get's ambushed.

Kisame can also use Exploding waves before Muu's location is know, the range of Shark Dance water prison is likely to be enough to capture Muu, in a realistic battle.

As well as that Kisames blade can detect chakra, even if Muu's chakra signal is hidden Sama will know that there is chakra around especially when Muu prepares to use dust release.
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

+rep for you,

great work as usual!;)

on the topic,i agree with you,kisame and 2nd mizukage > kakuzu and muu.

kismae's powerful water techniques combined with the mizukage's hydrification technique would be hard to stop!but it would not go down easy.kisame and 2nd mizukage would only take this,high difficulty.xd
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Well as you know Kisame has small scale attacks too, it is because I know both of them are not going to sit there that I used large scale attacks to open.

Kakuza's elements can only counter things in the same scale as them, it gets to a point where element weakness won't work as well.

Even though Muu is a censor type he will have to get in range to try any attacks, and the moment he does he exposes him self.

Kisame's speed has been noted so he should be able to avoid dust release or aid the Mizu if he get's ambushed.

Kisame can also use Exploding waves before Muu's location is know, the range of Shark Dance water prison is likely to be enough to capture Muu, in a realistic battle.

As well as that Kisames blade can detect chakra, even if Muu's chakra signal is hidden Sama will know that there is chakra around especially when Muu prepares to use dust release.
this is a great matchup believe me elemental wise and strength wise
kisame>kakuzu
muu/= mizukage
if muu beats the mizukage
it will be muu vs kisame and idk who wins there'they would both be exhausted
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

nice detail but you forget kakuzu and muu aren't gonna just sit there and not attack
if the mizukaage uses his illussion muu is a sensory type
he'd know where the real one is also
kisame wouldn't be able to take on the both of them at once muu can go invisible mode
those water sharks kisame is going to spam
kakuzu has different elements to counter this easily
you know what i am going to call this a draw now
Everyone needs to stop saying "muu's a sensor!"
This obviously didn't help him vs his battle against the second mizukage the first time or he wouldn't have died!
OR his sensory is so good it completely dispelled clam genjutsu instantly and the second mizukage is 100% on par with him w.o it.

and multiple elements means nothing when the other person is stronger.
only problem Kisame might have is with Earth because it's his elemental weakness. So he will use samahada. Either in close combat, or he will fuse wand water dome it up. Sucking out his chakara.

and to your point about the flying elements, please tell me how they can hit kisame if they are on the OUTSIDE of a giant dome of water.

P.S. i don't believe they can even fly that far, they never were shown to fly higher then a tree even.
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

this is a great matchup believe me elemental wise and strength wise
kisame>kakuzu
muu/= mizukage
if muu beats the mizukage
it will be muu vs kisame and idk who wins there'they would both be exhausted
Well in this scenario it has to be kisame due to samahada would steal muu's chakara, and the fact he would also be less exhausted because that happened earlier battle with kakuzu
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside



I disagree, Kisame can not beat Kakuzu, Mizukage is on tie with Muu.

Kakuzu will beat kisame while Muu will keep Mizukage busy (he can do this since it is canon that he and Mizukage killed each other in battle), and after that it is Kakuzu+Muu vs Mizukage, he can not beat both of them.

This is how Kakuzu beats Kisame.

kisame has large chakra pool so does Kakuzu, as seen here...

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As we can see he used multiple high LVL elemental techniques and he was not even a little bit exhausted, so when it comes to chakra he is no less then Kisame.



Kisame can only use water element, but Kakuzu can use up to 4 element's (in anime he was seen using Suiton and he does carry 5 hearts so he may very well use that too).

5 separate body's, this is the feat which put him above many shinobi, all of his hearts can maneuver on there own and can attack from multiple direction with multiple elements so it is basicaly 6 vs 1.

Experience, now this is where he far outmatches Kisame, he has almost 80 years of fighting experience and his Taijutsu skills are far above Kisame's.

Kisame has Samehadha, but Samehadha is weak against Katon based attacks as seen here...

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Kakuzu can do very high powerd Katon attacks by enhancing its power with Fuuton as seen here...

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Kisame can not deal with this kind of attack by using Samehadha, he will have to use his water based attack (and a powerful one) to stop this combo, and while he is doing that Raiton heart can go behind him and take him down for good.

And most dangerous of that all, Kakuzu has 5 lives so kisame will need to land 5 killing blows in order to kill him but Kakuzu on the other hand only need one lethal attack to kill kisame, and seeing that he is smarter then Kisame there are good chances that Kisame won't be able to kill him even once.
1. Kakuzu has 4.5 stamina, kisame has 5. Not much difference, but with Samahada stealing kakuzu's chakra it is a HUGE diffeence


2. Katon does hurt samahada, but kisame knows that better then ANYONE. Bee was new with samahada. Suiton > Katon. Kisame would never block with samahada vs katon.


3. First off he has 5 hearts total. 4 black things, and his own.
Second you are right in theory only. I don't see all of Kisame's hearts being able to do that in his battle vs kakashi and shikamaru.

Also I don't see these hearts "flying" like muu, ooniki, or deidara. They have never gone that far up. They have MAYBE been about half as high as water dome. So they would most likely get trapped inside (while having their chakara sucked out)

and even if they arn't stuck inside, then they are outside and cannot do anything to hurt kisame who is in the middle of THAT much water. So then you have a kakuzu with no hearts attached, and he would die.
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

1. Kakuzu has 4.5 stamina, kisame has 5. Not much difference, but with Samahada stealing kakuzu's chakra it is a HUGE diffeence


2. Katon does hurt samahada, but kisame knows that better then ANYONE. Bee was new with samahada. Suiton > Katon. Kisame would never block with samahada vs katon.


3. First off he has 5 hearts total. 4 black things, and his own.
Second you are right in theory only. I don't see all of Kisame's hearts being able to do that in his battle vs kakashi and shikamaru.

Also I don't see these hearts "flying" like muu, ooniki, or deidara. They have never gone that far up. They have MAYBE been about half as high as water dome. So they would most likely get trapped inside (while having their chakara sucked out)

and even if they arn't stuck inside, then they are outside and cannot do anything to hurt kisame who is in the middle of THAT much water. So then you have a kakuzu with no hearts attached, and he would die.

1. How do you propse Kisame will steal Kakuzu's chakra, He can not get close to hit him due to being attacked from 4 different direction, and if he uses Suiton: Senshokukō ,Kakuzu can kill him instantly with his Raiton gin
, Kakuzu can survive being killed 4 times but Kisame is dead after one lethal attack.

2. His hearts were attacking and moving without any help, when Kakuzu died they fooled Chouzi and Kakashi to revive him.

3. when they were attacking Kakashi they were keeping up with him even when he jumped he got blitzed by futon attack, so there jumping power is good enough to attack kisame from any direction, and as i said before if he uses any Suiton based attack he will be digging his own grave, if raiton Heart attacks kisame when he is inside water it will kill him instantly.

And i counted Muu when i said 6 vs 1,but it is actually 6 vs 2.

Edited previous post.
 
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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

1. How do you propse Kisame will steal Kakuzu's chakra, He can not get close to hit him due to being attacked from 4 different direction, and if he uses Suiton: Senshokukō ,Kakuzu can kill him instantly with his Raiton gin
, Kakuzu can survive being killed 4 times but Kisame is dead after one lethal attack.

2. His hearts were attacking and moving without any help, when Kakuzu died they fooled Chouzi and Kakashi to revive him.

3. when they were attacking Kakashi they were keeping up with him even when he jumped he got blitzed by futon attack, so there jumping power is good enough to attack kisame from any direction, and as i said before if he uses any Suiton based attack he will be digging his own grave, if raiton Heart attacks kisame when he is inside water it will kill him instantly.

And i counted Muu when i said 6 vs 1,but it is actually 6 vs 2.

Edited previous post.
1. doesn''t mean hes stronger tjust because he can survive more lethal blows.

2. I don't understand your statement, re-word maybe?

3. you didn't read my post did you? How does kakuzu counter water dome?
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

If I could rep you, I would. Again, it's a very good thread. Although for the first time, I have no clue as to who would win. They both have an equal chance of winning.
Although I have to remark that the chances of Kisame getting close enough to Kakuzu to suck his chakra is not high because Kakuzu has shown to be very quick.
Aside from that, I really can't tell who has the most chance of winning ^^;
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Team Mizukage vs Team Tsuchikage

As with my previous thread is a new variation in my Kage vs Kage Threads by including any shinobi that are Akatsuki or Jinchurikis and pairing them with a Kages/Sannins to create more diversity and strategic play in fights.

This is a thread highlighting the strength of Kisame and the Second Mizukage but unlike my other threads it has no bias, and is therefore showing why either team could win. Simply you just ignore the title as I wrote it that way for people to recognize it was one of my threads.









Strengths and Weaknesses of the Mizukage's Hozuki Transformation

Strengthened by Water techniques as they increase the overall volume of the user of the technique.

Immunity to Wind Techniques as they only work if of a massive magnitude against a increased volume Hozuki user.

Immunity to Earth Techniques as they are solid and usually require the user to hit the opponent directly. Earth traps will also fail as the user can simply seep out of the technique.

Immunity to most fire techniques as the Water > Fire nature of things, but there are exceptions for certain fire techniques and fire release users.

Immunity to Lightning Techniques in his Oil Based Transformation due to oil being a natural insulator meaning he can theoretically eliminate all of this Jutsu’s weaknesses.

Weakness against very strong fire techniques as the intensity means the user evaporates the user or simply overwhelms the water based technique.

Severe Weakness against lightning when he is in his Water Based form as the whole user becomes a liquid (impure water) means that the Di-Charged nature of water (containing both positive and negative minerals) means that it conducts electricity so dangerous and efficiently means the user is electrocuted over and over as they are a complete circuit.

Combined Tactics for Kisame and the Second Mizukage​

-Fusion Mode Sensory abilities + Heat Sensing Clam
This would act as a perfect counter to Muu's invisibility as the Mizukage's clam would sense the heat generated by the Second's body (can't eliminate that) and Kisame's heightened senses would immediately detect his Chakra due to Samehada's natural affinity with it.

-Great Shark Water Bullet + Large Scale Mizukage Water Tech
Kisame and the Mizukage can also combine both of their most powerful projectile water based attacks by fueling Kisame's Great Shark water bullet meaning once it eats through the chakra of the Mizukage's greatest water technique it would become literally unstoppable even against Kakuzu's wind infused fire release techniques meaning it could potentially One hit K.O Kakuzu with Muu being forced to split.

-Steaming Danger Tyranny + Clam Genjutsu
The Mizukage could also activate his infinite exploding clone then immediately use his Clam Genjutsu on Kakuzu once Muu goes into the skies or purses Kisame effectively momentarily making the odds 2 vs 1, giving them enough time to overwhelm Muu by catching him in a Water Prison then returning to Kakuzu once the Tsuchikage has been killed.

-Final Resort:Water Prison Jutsu + Hydrification Technique
This can be used as a combined final resort/trump card technique by Kisame and the Mizukage in which Kisame uses his Water Prison Jutsu while fusing with Samehada, then allowing the Mizukage to merge with the Water Prison creating a sentient body of water to support Kisame while he drowns Kakuzu and Muu whilst simultaneously attacking them to speed it up.

It would also make the Mizukage immense in size being able to tank Kakuzu's largest fire techniques without much difficulty then catching him in the immense prison (by moving towards him) and allowing Kisame to devour him.

Combined Tactics for Kakuzu and the Second Tsuchikage

-Aerial Support from Large Scale Water Techniques
Muu could use his ability of flight in conjunction with his large scale Earth techniques to create a wall(s) large enough to endure Kisame's largest water techniques.

This would be useful for Kakuzu as the height of the terrain could be warped so that he's above them giving him optimum conditions to bombard them with elemental attacks.

-Dust Release + Large Scale Elemental Attacks
Muu could use Dust Release in conjunction with Kakuzu's 4 Hearts separated from him to overwhelm the opponents with these attacks eventually resulting in them to be forced into situtions where either Kakuzu or Muu would land a direct hit.

Kakuzu's Fire Release volleys would be devastating for the Mizukage as it would only increase his dehydration level, reduce his performance level meaning he could easily be hit by one of Muu's Jintons.

-Earth Technique: Iron Skin Hardening + Quake of Large Boulders
Kakuzu can also harden his skin to its utmost limits and when combined with his Earth Grudge Transformation he is a force to be reckoned with as his thousnads of threads can be used as a long range method to restrain Kisame and the Second Mizukage then allow Muu to drop immense rocks on all of them with Kakuzu being able to tank the boulders with the other two being crushed.

To ensure this method works Kakuzu could leave one of his hearts separate from him so if all of his hearts are indeed crushed it can re-enter his body and revive him.

-Final Resort: Terrain Warping Earth Techniques + Earth Grudge Fear
As a final resort Kakuzu could enter his Earth Grudge Fear integrating all of his hearts and masks into his body combined with Muu warping the terrain on a large scale with Earth Release techniques meaning the Mizukage and Kisame would have to avoid landing for extended periods of time.

This is made worse by Kakuzu would constantly pursue them from a distance and use elemental volleys to limit their movements with each attack that narrowly misses the Mizukage having the added effect of furthering his dehydration and ultimately lowering his performance.

His black threads could also be used to attempt to capture them while his masks act independently on his shoulders.

i used big letters just to say


better go study books dude:noc:
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

great thread except u wrote itachi in here lol as if it was against itachi xd
-Flying and Levitating
Mu also had the ability to levitate above the ground meaning he could drastically boost his speed by erasing the force of friction. Mu could also take this to the next level by being able to fly at any range meaning he could go out of range of many of Itachi's moves and Genjutsu whilst simultaneously bombarding him with Elemental Techniques and Jinton.
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

1. doesn''t mean hes stronger tjust because he can survive more lethal blows.

2. I don't understand your statement, re-word maybe?

3. you didn't read my post did you? How does kakuzu counter water dome?

1. Kisame is not stronger then Kakuzu, he can use Doton: Domu, Kisame can not hurt him with Taijutsu or water, but he can Kill Kisame in 1 blow (although they won't be fighting hand to hand).

2. Kakuzu's heart's can surrround Kisame from every direction and can land Multiple elemental attack simultaneously Including Katon (which is Samehadha's weakness), and Raiton (Which is lethal for a Suiton user who does not has any affinity towards Raiton), and Kakuzu is also there to fight.

3.Kakuzu can use Doton: Moguragakure no Jutsu to go underground while his Raiton Heart Deliver's a killing blow to Kisame, and if need be Kakuzu does not need to Hide since he can be revived after being Killed.

There are many disadvantages for Kisame to fight Kakuzu, and Muu won't let Mizukage interfere with the fight.

I read every post i reply to.
 
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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

+rep and great job on that one. Im leaning towards Kisame and 2nd Mizu my self.
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

Well I think that Kisame can start the battle against the two of them and with Thousand shark feeding while the Mizukage uses his Illusion Genjutsu.

Kisame Should immediately take control of the Battle field with thousand sharks feeding to obliterate the Majority of the Hearts if Kakuza releases them in their creature form.


His follow up should be Water release great exploding waves to take control of the terrain, mean while the Mizukage will act as bait for Muu (He will be a more viable target for the Muu as he won't be using distracting and overwhelming attacks) to lure him out of hiding with an attack that won't work (since the Mizukage that Muu attacks won't be the real one).

As Shown Here
Mu is not stupid enough to just attack an illusion, he would quickly find the real one and/or the clam and attack them instead, or he would just take on kisame
 

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Re: Proof that Kisame and Second Mizukage > Kakuzu and Muu (Actual Explanation Inside

1. Kisame is not stronger then Kakuzu, he can use Doton: Domu, Kisame can not hurt him with Taijutsu or water, but he can Kill Kisame in 1 blow (although they won't be fighting hand to hand).

2. Kakuzu's heart's can surrround Kisame from every direction and can land Multiple elemental attack simultaneously Including Katon (which is Samehadha's weakness), and Raiton (Which is lethal for a Suiton user who does not has an affinity towards Raiton), and Kakuzu is also there to fight.

3.Kakuzu can use Doton: Moguragakure no Jutsu to go underground while his Raiton Heart Deliver's a killing blow to Kisame, and if need be Kakuzu does not need to Hide since he can be revived after being Killed.

There are many disadvantages for Kisame to fight Kakuzu, and Muu won't let Mizukage interfere with the fight.

I read every post i reply to.

1. false, the battle will start w.o his hearts being released, therefore taijutsu/close range will be emanate. and even with all his long ranged, naruto still got close enough to him with a few clones to kill him TWICE. (rasen HAPPENED to die off the first time because it was incomplete)


2. i've explained in earlier posts that the lightening does not BEAT water. Basically the electricity will combine with water and go with the water. It has no mind of it's own and cannot control where it goes after it hits water because the water conducted it into it's stream. So if the lightening hits water, the water will be combined with in it's attack and would actually work against kakuzu.
Also, we have seen Samahada absorb 6 tails worth of chakra in a single swipe AND just being in proximity was able to take off the lightening of bee's pencil. Means blocking any non katon attack with samahada is completely viable. and obviously suiton > katon.


3. i do not remember him using that in the manga, please post the link to where he used it!


4. if kisame is fused with samahada how does Kakuzu beat/hurt him?
 
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