I think I found a flaw in the manga

[Negative Knight]

No he is not stronger then the sage? I think that's an obvious and a desperate attempt to refute what orochimaru said.

I already stated he does not know secret jutsu and bloodline limits like steam relaese. However you bringing something that isn't even canon in here disturbs me. Utakata's bubble style is filler.

Read the manga, new six paths of pain vs Naruto and Killer B (this fight displays their abilities and confirms Utakata's Bubble ability)

as for the secret jutsu and bloodline limit that was my mistake

so what jutsus do you have in mind that Hiruzen possesses ?

I honestly think he only possesses jutsus of the five elements, earth and fire being his main with the remaining three him having a certain degree of expertise.

 

[Gooner4life]

I think people are overestimating the amount of techniques Konoha had. Apart from Kekkei Genkai and Hiden techiniques most of them would be D - B rank techniques of lots of different natures, the vast majority being fire techniques.

 

[AWSUM SID]

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It says that hiruzen was able to use all the jutsu in the leaf. Now I know that excludes bloodline limits and secret jutsu's like the nara clans, but since it says he could use every jutsu, does that give him all 5 elemental releases?

I originally thought the manga said he knew every jutsu meaning he had knowledge, but since it said he could use them, that's implying that he could use all 5 elements.

Back then the story line was less developed. The first arc was based more on real life ninjutsu.

 

[Forsberg]

That's a groundless statement, there's no proof that its an exaggerated claim. Nothing has ever been said to refute orochimaru's statement other then your opinion in the matter.

You excluding kekkei genkai is also a groundless statement. It is exaggerated. And as AWSUM SID said "Back then the story line was less developed. The first arc was based more on real life ninjutsu."

 

[Unbiased]

Read the manga, new six paths of pain vs Naruto and Killer B (this fight displays their abilities and confirms Utakata's Bubble ability)

as for the secret jutsu and bloodline limit that was my mistake

so what jutsus do you have in mind that Hiruzen possesses ?

I honestly think he only possesses jutsus of the five elements, earth and fire being his main with the remaining three him having a certain degree of expertise.

I must of missed it my apologies. It however appear that it is not a bloodline limit, and is a branch of water release using bubbles. With that being said, its a good thing Utakata did not hail from Konoha but krigakure.

Back to your question, If this translation is right, then he has mastery over all 5, now I sound like an idiot by saying that, but i'll agree with the manga over other peoples opinions till proven otherwise. I do believe however he is proficient with earth release and fire release over all the other elements.

 

[Unbiased]

You excluding kekkei genkai is also a groundless statement. It is exaggerated. And as AWSUM SID said "Back then the story line was less developed. The first arc was based more on real life ninjutsu."

You haven't presented any proof that what orochimaru stated was exaggerated. Bringing in other exaggerations from the manga doesn't disprove what I have posted.

 

[Negative Knight]

I must of missed it my apologies. It however appear that it is not a bloodline limit, and is a branch of water release using bubbles. With that being said, its a good thing Utakata did not hail from Konoha but krigakure.

Back to your question, If this translation is right, then he has mastery over all 5, now I sound like an idiot by saying that, but i'll agree with the manga over other peoples opinions till proven otherwise. I do believe however he is proficient with earth release and fire release over all the other elements.

and that is exactly what i agree with

It was most likely referring to any elemental techniques that hailed from Konoha meaning the statement itself sounds very probable for someone of his level.

 

[KingHashirama]

That's a groundless statement, there's no proof that its an exaggerated claim. Nothing has ever been said to refute orochimaru's statement other then your opinion in the matter.

Nothing has been Stated but it has been shown.. ;].

Also people are dumb to say he could have learned all 5 elements.. uh no. They are already given to you. It it was possible the rinnegan would be crap in that catogary.. ONLY people with the rinnegan have the access to ALL 5 elements.


Also, Oro first stated that the words "known" and then "being able to use". Mostly its the Known that counts. Because he could not use Pollen technique of hashirama's. (only avaliable to wood). ;]. So what Oro said about Sarutobi counters itself, in the fight.

 

[Unbiased]

Nothing has been Stated but it has been shown.. ;].

Also people are dumb to say he could have learned all 5 elements.. uh no. They are already given to you. It it was possible the rinnegan would be crap in that catogary.. ONLY people with the rinnegan have the access to ALL 5 elements.


Also, Oro first stated that the words "known" and then "being able to use". Mostly its the Known that counts. Because he could not use Pollen technique of hashirama's. (only avaliable to wood). ;]. So what Oro said about Sarutobi counters itself, in the fight.

1: Elements can be learned. Sasuke was initially a fire release user, but learned the lightening element. With that being said, sasuke learned lightening release in a month of training with kakashi, whose to say in 69 years hiruzen didn't learn it.

2: Its common logic that people cannot use secret jutsus, and bloodline limits like wood release. Your argument about oro countering himself falls right there.

3: It has been stated that he was able to use all the jutsus in konoha. (with bloodline and secret jutsus like nara's). With that being said, it can be presumed based on what has been stated, that he can use all 5 elements. Something has been stated but nothing was shown except for fire and earth release.

 

[Gooner4life]

Nothing has been Stated but it has been shown.. ;].

Also people are dumb to say he could have learned all 5 elements.. uh no. They are already given to you. It it was possible the rinnegan would be crap in that catogary.. ONLY people with the rinnegan have the access to ALL 5 elements.


Also, Oro first stated that the words "known" and then "being able to use". Mostly its the Known that counts. Because he could not use Pollen technique of hashirama's. (only avaliable to wood). ;]. So what Oro said about Sarutobi counters itself, in the fight.

Of course he wouldn't have been able to use Kekkai Genkai, that is obvious because they are bloodline limits. Rinnegan gives you an affinity for all five elements so you can learn them with ease. Most Jonin can use two. A genius who had spent years learning ninjutsu under the First and Second Hokage, why is it so hard to believe he could use them all with a lot of time and effort.

 

[Unbiased]

Of course he wouldn't have been able to use Kekkai Genkai, that is obvious because they are bloodline limits. Rinnegan gives you an affinity for all five elements so you can learn them with ease. Most Jonin can use two. A genius who had spent years learning ninjutsu under the First and Second Hokage, why is it so hard to believe he could use them all with a lot of time and effort.

You have no idea how many people will say that, his usage of all konoha jutsus include KKG. I have to be so clear on what is available because people will exploit it and troll.

 

[abhiraj]

Nobody but rinnegan users can use all 5 elements.
Although the anime has kinda disrespected the Rinnegan by showing other people use all 5

 

[Gooner4life]

Nobody but rinnegan users can use all 5 elements.
Although the anime has kinda disrespected the Rinnegan by showing other people use all 5

Nobody but rinnegan users have an affinity for five elements, making them easier to master. For someone else it would take years and plenty of hard work, as well as being a genius.

 

[abhiraj]

Nobody but rinnegan users have an affinity for five elements, making them easier to master. For someone else it would take years and plenty of hard work, as well as being a genius.

That is much better.
But there hasn't been anyone with more than 3.
4 if u count Kakuzu n his hearts

 

[KingHashirama]

1: Elements can be learned. Sasuke was initially a fire release user, but learned the lightening element. With that being said, sasuke learned lightening release in a month of training with kakashi, whose to say in 69 years hiruzen didn't learn it.

2: Its common logic that people cannot use secret jutsus, and bloodline limits like wood release. Your argument about oro countering himself falls right there.

3: It has been stated that he was able to use all the jutsus in konoha. (with bloodline and secret jutsus like nara's). With that being said, it can be presumed based on what has been stated, that he can use all 5 elements. Something has been stated but nothing was shown except for fire and earth release.

uh some are gifted with 2 elements.. Sasuke initially had the lightening element. Just like Hiruzen has Fire and Earth ;].

2. Its also common sense when a person says all its means ALL. ;].


3. And i will say this again. Only person that can use 5 elements is a person with the rinnegan. OK. He was also called the God of Shinobi... but how far did that title take him in the series?? not past the first part of Naruto. If something is stated and it is not proven it is not correct. And therefore gets the name "Hype". Now we have people like the 3rd Raikage, who have hype that has been proven =].

 

[slashestranged]

kakashi has 4 which is why i think 4 is the max

 

[Exaar]

Give this thread a good Read.

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Quote from the thread:

If you've read this far you're probably thinking that using every existing konoha jutsu would require 5 elements? , Well yes, I'm here to explain to you that Hiruzen had 4-5 elements, He may not have had wind since it's rare in Konoha, but it's likely at least one person had it ...

I already know you're going to say

"It's impossible to have 5 elements , without rinnegan that is"

WRONG , infact Anyone can learn all the elements, it would just take a ridculous amount of time for most.. But hiruzen is no normal ninja...He is a genius with skills in ninjutsu beyond anyone ever seen in the manga bar nagato.... Members of his clan also seem to have some sort of talent in learning jutsu extremely fast, as seen with konohamaru .... .

 

[Unbiased]

Turns out he could use all 5 elements.