[Predictions] Naruto Manga Chapter 594 Discussion and 595 Predictions

[Codex]

Here's who Tobi is NOT:

1. Obito - The timeline of when Tobi attacks the village would put Obito as a young boy. Obito was also killed by a bunch of big ****ing rocks. Obito also has no reason to hate anyone in the Leaf Village.

2. Tobirama - The second hokage was a Senju, a staunch supporter of peace and willing to sacrifice his life for Konoha. His final act before death was to name Hirzen Sarutobi as 3rd Hokage. Then he was killed by the Gold and Silver brothers.

3. Kagami - Was one of the ninjas who studied under Tobirama and Hashirama. Has absolutely zero motive to want to destroy the leaf village. It's a stretch for him to know anything about the So6P, let alone about Madara vs Hashirama, the Juubi, ect, ect, ect. You might as well say 'Tobi is Kabuto' if you think that Kagami is Tobi.

The only people who are left to be Tobi:

1. Izuna - Has motive and opportunity. The only thing that would stop him from being Tobi is if he were actually dead, which we don't know for certain.

2. Setsuna - One of the dissenters just before Madara was outcast. Also has motive and opportunity.

OK, I agree with everything but the bold parts. How do you know Kagami has no motive? We know jack about him. He's appeared in, what, 4-5 panels? With all of 2 lines of dialogue. He may have studied under Hashirama and Tobirama, but doesn't say much about his character. Oro studied under Sarutobi, and look how he turned out. I'm not trying to say Tobi is Kagami, all I'm saying is there's about equal evidence to support Tobi being Kagami as there is to the contrary: none. On the other hand, there are very good reasons to believe Tobi is not Kabuto.

Edit: and yes, I realize the Kabuto remark was an exaggeration.

 

[jonsin19]

Obito cannot be tobi!!!! You know why? Because obito and kakashi were still kids when tobi attacked the village. So how could obito be tobi, when tobi was a full adult when he faught Minato. He also gave the rinnegan to nagato and that was before tobi's time.

 

[jonsin19]

As I said before. There is still alot we dont know about the Second Hokage. Earlier in the series, it was said that he gave his life by staying behind and letting Danzo and Hiruzen go ahead while he stayed and faught the shinobi that were chasing them. But in episode 270, They said that the Gold and Silver brothers killed him. And in the previous epidode they said the Gold and Silver brothers staged a coup d'tat and killed him and someone else. Anybody have any details or facts about the Second Hokage (Tobirama)?

 

[Codex]

As I said before. There is still alot we dont know about the Second Hokage. Earlier in the series, it was said that he gave his life by staying behind and letting Danzo and Hiruzen go ahead while he stayed and faught the shinobi that were chasing them. But in episode 270, They said that the Gold and Silver brothers killed him. And in the previous epidode they said the Gold and Silver brothers staged a coup d'tat and killed him and someone else. Anybody have any details or facts about the Second Hokage (Tobirama)?

During the coup d'etat, they left the second hokage near death, but didn't kill him. The elite kumo ninja squad that apparently killed Tobirama was called the Kinkaku Force, so probably the Kin/Gin bros were part of that (I don't remember that being confirmed, though). In ep. 270 they do say he was killed by the Kin/Gin bros, bit I seem to recall that in the manga they said "almost killed" or something similar, which I thought was in reference to the coup. But I could be wrong, as I haven't read those chapters in a while.

 

[GavinsFaja]

Theres no proof that obito actually died. and when tobi finally takes of his mask kakashi has a shocked look on his face! tobi is someone kakashi knows personally that still leaves the door open for obito!

 

[aema83]

Its not rinnegan. Look it up on the wiki. and plus the spiral of the jutsu is not that of the rinnegan, more particularly not the one nagato had, so its not the same.

Narutopedia, as someone said earlier, is made by people like us who read and love the manga. It's not to be conceived as a sort of "Bible".
It merely collects all the info we have about characters and plot line developments.
Plus, I still think that could be the Rinnegan since all we know is the fact that the So6P gave his "eyes" to his elder son. So6P ocular jutsu = Rinnegan. Tobi claims the Rinnegan was his from the beginning and gave it to Nagato. The Sharingan and Byakugan are said to be "derived" from the Rinnegan. But we still do have so little info about this story part of the Ninja beginnings so we really can't tell anything for sure.
As Omningan wrote, furthermore, images can be tricky and change (they can also be errors made, voluntarily or not, by Kishi himself).
For all we know, Tobi really seems to be something very different from any character we already know of. There's still a chance he could really be an Uchiha, even a Senju. He could really be anyone (or no one).
Omningan's theory is by far the more consistent, especially regarding Tobi's immense knowledge and understanding of people and the world.
The only thing that doesn't convince me it's his Sharingan... the one we've always seen doesn't seem to be capable of evolving into MS, the other one we see during the fight with Konan was Shisui's eye taken from Danzo, right?
Could it be that he took both Sharingan from somebody else?
There're lot of possibilities and assumptions we can made and still we actually don't know enough to put us into the position of claiming any theory to be absolutely true. Tobi could be Sage's son, Izuna, Setsuna, Madara's copy, even 2nd Hokage or future Sasuke (that one was really fun to read )... or someone else. Or actually no one. The most consistent is, for now, Sage's son.
The only thing I'm sure is that Kishi will toy with us for a little longer than so many of you think.

And I would really reconsider what Madara could do when he finds out that Naruto has now that much power due to the Tailed Beasts' gifts.

 

[blacque]

I'm beginning Think tobi might be more of Kagame based on the fact that every one of Danzo's colleagues all wanted world peace and went after it in one form or the other.

Consider these, Sarutobi had the villages contesting in chuunin exams and more to promote alliance.

Danzo used ANBU and was more for peace by eliminating threats.

it only makes sense that Tobi a.k.a Kagami also wants peace in his own twisted way with his moon's eye plan.

Even Hotaru and that other dude, the advisor want peace too in their own way too (keeping the jinchuriki)

if there's anything that unites them its the peace factor and remember Danzo knew that tobi was after shisui's eye, so I'm guessing its someone he knows pretty well.

So I'm thinking Danzo, Tobi and Sarutobi were all students under nidaime.

what do you guys think?

 

[imyourxpan]

Congrats. You've officially taken away most of the credibility from the obito discussion, except for the fact for at least me i believe that madara gave the rinnegan to nagato. However you have still taken away a significant chunk of his credibility by clarifying his place in the naruto timeline, and have probably destroyed the theory for many other obito users. Thank You.

I have been leaning more and more towardsa obito, and after reading this, I think obito is not impossible but kagami is more practical without more explanation from kishi.

If i knew how to +rep, i would for you.

EDIT: However I will still defend all defendable points about obito because if its not obito i will be trolled for the rest of my life.

I was trying to figure that out also because of the time inconsistencies. I can't wait to find out who he really is!!! Obito popped into my head as soon as Tobi made a reference about Kakashi. What about Tobi's name, tOBI? Idk I'm just throwing stuff out there lol

 

[aema83]

More thoughts.
I went through some older chapters (mostly the ones where Tobi and Kabuto encounter) and I noticed that Kabuto says to Tobi "I would come greet you Tobi... Excuse me, you go by Madara these days, don't you". Is it possible that Kabuto knows Tobi's true identity?
Then, when Tobi meets Kisame for the first time while controlling the 4th Mizukage (that's when he had long hair, I was mistaken in my first post) he presents himself as Madara but shows his face to him only later in the story and Kisame recognizes him. It could be that Kisame knows Tobi's true identity or that he simply recognizes that "this" Tobi and the "Madara" he first met are the same person.
Regarding Tobi's Sharingan, I also checked and in fact his left eye is not Shisui's, since Danzo crushed it before dying. Tobi has at his own disposal so many Sharingans from the Uchiha massacre and it could be possible that he in fact had never have an original Sharingan himself...
Aside from his relationship with Kisame, this leaves the field open for the Sage's son theory, but also for a possible "Madara's copy" theory.
Damn you Kishi, this is so f confusing...

 

[imyourxpan]

I read up on something it actually points towards Obito more. It seems like it is a mixture of Obito and something else. When Tobi attacked the village he is smaller than how he is now. He seems around the same height as Kakashi and they are the same age at that point. Also, Tobi was able to enter the Hidden Leaf without being detected and they automatically assumed Madara. The thing is that since Obito is from the Leaf and was never marked as a rogue ninja, he wouldn't set off any alarms. Why did his body decompose during that fight though?

 

[aema83]

Just to talk you all out of the "Tobi personally knows Guy or Kakashi", in chapter 567 Guy and Kakashi arrives at Naruto-Tobi battlefield and Guy shouts to Kakashi while fighting the Bijuus "I'm not good at remembering people's faces, they all look the same to me".
Tobi is not deaf, then...
Point.

 

[dranzzz]

For all NB users....hear the final twist of the series...

Tobi is none other than the Sage of Six path himself....xd
He was the one who created the ninja system and the jutsus...
But only after that he realizes the mistake he did...:flaw:
So he faked his own death(or he is now a mere shell of his true powers)...
He created all the jutsus...So he found a way to extend his life...
Unable to see the hatred in the ninja system all through his life from the beginning, he decides to put an end to what all he started...
That explains the whole juubi summoning thing...
But the anime is gonna end by Naruto's talk no jutsu combined by Kishi's Plot no jutsu...
and we ll be cast by infinite tsukoyomi in real...xd
The END............

 

[Payne]

Cant wait for naruto vs sasuke fight

 

[Higekage]

Okay I joined this forum so I can put an end to this Obito delusion.

There is only one simple full-proof logical reason for why Tobi is not Obito. Tobi said that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan. Jiraiya met Nagato when he was a kid and made him his first student. Then he had Minato as a student. Minato then had Obito as a student. How is it then, could Obito have given Nagato the Rinnegan. The only explanation is if he went back in time (before he was born) to give it to Nagato. That doesn't explain how Obito OBTAINED the Rinnegan either. But that would be absurd.

It is physically impossible for Tobi to be Obito because of the enormous time inconsistencies. Kishi has you guys fooled man. Just look what he did in that panel when Tobi said "you can't remember faces" etc. The panel was next to a panel of Kakashi to trick you. This is called juxtaposition. An obvious ploy to get people to ride the Obito banwagon.

Personally I'm leaning towards Kagami because there is no real reason to conclude that Tobi could be anyone at this point. No clues add up to come to a reasonable answer. Kagami has no background and thus makes him the most open character to fit as Tobi. The other theories need Tobi to fit as that character. You could say that he's a side character in which we know nothing about. But we also know practically nothing about Zetsu at all besides some abilities of his. There is still a lot of information being excluded on purpose.

Well said, I think you nailed it. People are trying to justify other characters with far fetched theories but Kagami feels just right

By the way, regarding Tobi's laboratory. Everyone seem to assume they are for himself but it could also be that he is planning to revive the Uchiha clan. I don't mean as in reviving all previous members, but give sharingan to people of his choosing to be part of his army. Maybe they are gonna be stationed around the moon eye genjutsu world and keep an eye on things, gathering stuff for tobi and so on. Like a giant Sharingan Akatsuki army

 

[aema83]

Well said, I think you nailed it. People are trying to justify other characters with far fetched theories but Kagami feels just right

By the way, regarding Tobi's laboratory. Everyone seem to assume they are for himself but it could also be that he is planning to revive the Uchiha clan. I don't mean as in reviving all previous members, but give sharingan to people of his choosing to be part of his army. Maybe they are gonna be stationed around the moon eye genjutsu world and keep an eye on things, gathering stuff for tobi and so on. Like a giant Sharingan Akatsuki army

It seems a little too improbable to me.
It could also be he doesn't want them to finish in the hands of non-Uchiha shin obi. They could also be there just for his experiments. They could be there as an infinite backup for him.
Maybe he needs them to further empower his right eye, which by the way we've never seen, as I mentioned earlier, transforming to Mangekyou Sharingan.
We still know so little of Tobi, anyway...

 

[alexu9696]

Discuss the Tobi identy in the Tobi identy official thread..... its a thread sticky only for this...:sy:

 

[flaviochief]

damn i thought i was going to find out who tobi is -.-

 

[Higekage]

It seems a little too improbable to me.
It could also be he doesn't want them to finish in the hands of non-Uchiha shin obi. They could also be there just for his experiments. They could be there as an infinite backup for him.

Yeah this is true aswell. But if he succeeds with the moon eye plan, which I think he should, he will become the most powerful being in the world as long as his genjutsu functions. He won't need all those eyes himself but could still have use for them if he grants them to his followers. I don't think they would pose much of a threat against Tobi even if they teamed up against him in some sort of rebellion either.

 

[TheLegendarySage]

There is no need for followers when his Moon eye plan is complete.
As tobi said; Everything is collected into one being, one subconcious mind (in a genjustu). I'm sure he doesn't need ppl having sharingan to keep an eye on the world.

 

[aldeatcu]

What if after madara obtained the rinnegan he tried to revive his brother and succeded but he died..and he entrusted izuna before his death with his eyes in order to revive him when the time comes..maby izuna(tobi)changed his plan,and we will perhaps see a conflict of interests between him and madara,and they will fight...that would be epic,complete susanoo vs. juubi