Naruto Storyline: An analysis.

[NarutoFactoid]

I think it's funny that one of the biggest points of this thread is sexism and most of the guys who reply here are going to say they agree with your thread just because you have your pic in your ava and you are a beautiful woman. Lol just had to point that out.

i wrote a huge post for that in the thread.

but yea i just commented asking that. i refrained from telling my joke but now that i have support.

you think its sexist or your just trying to get in her digital red pants.

 

[ChrisWolf]

i wrote a huge post for that in the thread.

but yea i just commented asking that. i refrained from telling my joke but now that i have support.

you think its sexist or your just trying to get in her digital red pants.

............:rofl:bravo bravo

 

[Everlasting Peace]

Edo Kushina!!! oh but they didn't, I really want to know the depths of Kushina "special chakra" which naruto probably acquired through genetics, but I think she is strong and could of been a good edo, at least to go against naruto.

 

[FizzyDrink]

Hello, everyone!​

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First of all, let me say that before doing this thread, I have been thinking about this for a long time, whether to do this thread or not. (PS: In case you decide to read it, I would recommend to listen to this on the background:

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)

Regarding myself, I am not such a big thread opener, if you count my threads, they're max. 6 or something like that.

Leaving that aside, I don't know how much I am going to be writing here so, if you are not prepared to read a quite long chit-chat thread, I would kindly ask you not to flame the thread - although I am prepared for the flaming, considering the types of subject I want to 'touch'.

My thread it's going to be about the storyline, generally, being it manga or anime - some have only read the manga, some have only seen the anime, some both -, about the whole meaning behind the Naruto tale, about us, the readers, about misconceptions, about us as people and what we have learned from this tale, about everything, don't know, you mean it!

Maybe I won't be touching some subject and you want to do it, please, do it! All I ask is to be presented in a respectful way, if not, than don't post at all, thank you!

I am going to be touching subject that have been very controversial.

So, let me start:

1. Sakura Haruno/Tsunade Senju hate

Just because they're females and they don't have flashy jutsus, they are one of the most hated characters in the whole Naruto verse. Why? Maybe because Kishimoto's sexism got to you too! And I am sure that to some of you it did.
And don't tell me it didn't because I won't believe it not in a million years. It's a proven fact, one leads the way, the others (the majority) follows. Look at the whole democracy thing where we are supposed to have free will but, as a mere fact, we're just some tools. We're given the ideea that we have freedom while we forget to THINK - a simple process - so, in that way, we became useful tools, as I previously stated.
If someone asks himself/herself what I am talking about all I'll have to say is that I am talking about mass-population control. Google it, do whatever you want to do about it, in order to find more about the thing.

Anyway, what I mean is that if Kishimoto is a sexist, it's logical that mostly of its readers become sexists, he just transposes his way to be to the readers through the story.

Why do I say he is sexist? Well look at it: compare the battles in which the men from Naruto series have been portrayed and compare the women's ones.
The most eloquent one: Chuunin exams. All the rest fights compared to Ino-Sakura fight. Clearly the men were the dominant power.
Which, if you ask me, not that I'm a girl, I am the one who believes in equality of the human being, be it woman or man, it's not right.
Ino - Sakura fight could have had the same awesomeness as the boys fights.
If that's not sexism, then what is it?
Secondly, the way he made Sakura all whinny little scared girl.
It's not like that, girls generally are known to be more mature and strong willing than boys - no offense! He just didn't gave her any type of bloodline, nothing. Just a great intellect - she was the one that was the best from team 7 in class.

Another thing is that you say that all she does is count on Naruto. It's not like that, the biggest thing that made the majority of you think that, was the Sasuke retrieval arc.

Well, let me say something to you: IF it wouldn't be for Sakura to ask Naruto to bring Sasuke back, the bond between both of them (Sasuke and Naruto) wouldn't have been that strong. Why? Because Sakura was the one who strengthened that bond, she told Naruto that HE was the only one able to bring him back so that made Naruto think more about his connection/bond to Sasuke.

Yes, that whinny little girl did that, she is the balance between Naruto and Sasuke. Sakura always loved Sasuke, who was too busy playing cool, who made Naruto in the progress of gaining more of Sakura's attention compete with him, who made Sasuke knowledge Naruto's power, which made them rivals/best friends.

Most of you don't understand these little hidden things because all you are busy with power displays and flashy jutsus.

Secondly, you don't seem to understand emotions. Sakura cries, yes, she does that a lot, but she doesn't cry because she's weak, she cries because she's too powerful mentally, that somehow she has to let it all out.

Tears are not of those who are weak, but of those who have been strong for too long.
​

And, yes! Even if you deny this, the facts show it, and maybe not in a regular day by day basis where you wouldn't understand, but in a fight.

Remember when she just kicked Ino out of her head? Well that's mental power! Pure raw mental power.
Besides that, let's bring it down to the human part - how many of you have loved? But truly loved! I am talking to those of you who know what love is. Do you know how it feels when your love is unshared? Do you have any ideea? Just because the majority of you are boys and boys usually don't display emotions, doesn't mean that you can hide the fact that we all feel/have feelings. Because, in the end, that's what Naruto is about. Human things like feelings, bonds etc.
Maybe someday when you'll love and get hurt and be somewhere alone in a corner, crying your asses out, maybe that some day you will remember this annoying character who just used to express her feelings too much - for some.

Another thing, you keep blaming her for telling Naruto that she loved him, that she doesn't love Sasuke anymore and you say that she was just being bitchy.

Does any of you have any idea on how much pressure was on her heart? Does any of you think about the torment in her mind? Having to protect her good friend and killing the one she loves.
She didn't tell Naruto she loved him because she was trying to act as a bitch, she did it because she was trying to PROTECT him. As best as she could! How do you think Naruto would have react if she just told him the truth? She just needed to know Naruto safe, not being exposed to any threats. Even if Naruto in the end found out and got there.

Which led me to the next subject I want to expose. That she was weak when she got there to kill Sasuke and then, again, she had to be saved. Ok, I agree, she had to be saved... but my question to you is this: how many of you can kill the one you love? Do you think it was so easy for Sakura to go there and try in doing it? No, it wasn't!

Maybe this was the wake-up call for her, this was necessary for her to finally see that Sasuke is not the Sasuke she once knew and that next time she will need to be more careful. Although she will keep hoping that someday Sasuke will come back and be the Sasuke she knew.
Admit it, we all hope! That's the main thing we do when things usually get ****ed-up, we still damn hope! Because this is what hope is, a lying bitch that makes us believe everything will get better and so she manages to lie ourselves until we're bye-bye, if you know what I mean.

Sakura once again has to be thanked because she saved both of them, Naruto and Sasuke. Remember the first part, against the Sound team. She wasn't that great, didn't had that many flashy jutsus but she fought until the last moment to protect both of them. She showed then how powerful is, how strong her will is! She didn't cared about the sacrifice she had to make in order to keep both Sasuke and Naruto alive. She cut her hair - a very precious thing for her. Tell me how many of you gave up to a very very very precious thing for your friends. But truly did. Because we have to admit, we tend to be pretty selfish people. Her will for the ones she love is just among the most powerful ones in the whole Narutoverse.

For example, here you have a pretty clear view of her will:

"I'll get you! Even if you blow off my arms and legs, if I take in your poison and it paralyzes me, I'll get you I swear it! No matter how much you resist, no matter what you do.... I'll beat you half to death and make you talk about Orochimaru!! Got it?"​

- this is Sakura to Sasori. So yes, she's strong willed when she wants something. Doesn't matter what she has to do, she just does it! And in the end she did it.

Now, most of you will probably say that it was thanks to Chyio, that it wasn't an unfair fight and so on.
Well, let me tell you, it wasn't!
If it wouldn't have been for Sakura, Chyio would have died more quickly. Tell me how Chyio would have been able to dodge the iron sand if it wasn't for Sakura?
It was a fair fight, Sasori had the main puppet, himself and the other 100 puppets while Chyio had Sakura and the 10 puppets. It was even in power display. So stop saying it was an unfair fight. It was! And Sasori himself acknowledged Sakura's power and admitted she is not a brat to be played with.

And don't worry, if Sasori was defeated, it's not such a big deal. He still remains the Sasori of Great Red Sand, a true worthy shinoby of his name. He just died with honor, fighting!
So in terms of will and raw power, Sakura rocks hard! Yes, even without all those flashy jutsus.

"I may not have amazing weapons in me like a puppet, but what I do have is my masters contempt for losing... what I also got from my master was unarmed combat skills" ​

So, yeah, whenever you say you hate her just because she's weak and she cries a lot, think about the cause first, don't go directly to the effect!

Speaking of will power, here I pass down to Tsunade.
The legendary kunoichi Tsunade. Just because she was Senju and happens to be Senju Hashirama's granddaughter, and just because she doesn't have a mokuton bloodline, no flashy jutsu, just raw power and EXCELLENT medical ninja skills, she is trashed/bashed/hated however you want to say.
Most of you criticized her in the Pein arc just because she stood there and, supposedly to you, didn't do nothing. But the fact that she kept alive the whole village, it's nothing to you.
Maybe she should have left everyone to die? Maybe that's how you would have loved her? I don't know.
That's a thing that bothers me, if it's not about pure flashy jutsus - as I like to call them, you don't care at all. You don't see behind that stuff, the human part, as I previously said.
You forget that big things are done from many small things. A small gesture here, a small gesture there, and in the end gets something big.
The spring doesn't come with one flower.
And to return at the Pein arc, even after she used most of her chakra, Tsunade came down to fight Pein, as weakened as she was. Only that Naruto appeared in the main stage and asked her to back off. She did that because Naruto asked her, not because that was her intention. NO!
Her intention was to protect the Leaf, even with the cost of her life.

"Why am I putting my life on the line? Because now… I am the Fifth Hokage of Konohagakure!"
​

Speaking of life, here I go to the next one.
Some of you keep accusing her that she left Jiraya die. No, she didn't! She actually wanted to go with him, be there with him, but Jiraya asked her to stay in the village. And she had to stay, the village cannot stay without a Hokage. Besides, she trusted him as he trusted her.
And that means with the title of Hokage! All of you keep saying that she is crappy as a Hokage but look at the war arc how badass she is. She was the only one who could smash into Madara's Susano'o. I don't think that's nothing. I mean, come on, she is best known for her raw power who cannot be matched by anyone in the Narutoverse. If she wouldn't have been great, Jiraya wouldn't have searched for her if he wouldn't have been sure she is a great candidate. Even with hall his power he admitted it that she is a strong ninja. Remember that he has been close to death twice. One of them was because of Tsunade.
But about Tsunade, so I won't make it long, I would love to show you some of Tazzilla's posts. That man is an encyclopedia when it comes to explaining her feats.
The most important thing that Tsunade has, even if it's not the most powerful from the Hokages and stuff like that, she has the most powerful will of FIRE! Besides Hashirama, of course.
Speaking of will of fire, I will pass to the next topic I want to share my opinion about.

2. Hokages display of power.

What do I refer on when I say Hokage's display of power?
Well, generally what I've seen on NB is people arguing on who is the most powerful Hokage. Whether is Hashirama, Tobirama, Hiruzen or Minato.
All those threads started hatred amongst yourselves making you forget the true purpose of a hokage.
And when I say the true purpose, I refer to that little teaching Hiruzen gave to Asuma about the King, who later, passed to Shikamaru.
The true Hokage purpose lies withing the "king' theory and into the will of fire.

I will let you some quotes here, maybe you'll think more about this whole power thing, and maybe you'll start to appreciate/value more every Hokage Konoha had, instead of arguing amongst yourselves.

"Konoha is my home! The Hokage is one who continues to act as the main pillar of the house, protecting it!! He's the one who carries the will of Konoha, entrusted with it…"

"To me Konoha isn't just an organisation. Every year there are a lot of ninja born and raised in Konoha… They live, fight to protect this village and what is precious they would go to their death. Even if we are not related by blood, those of the village like these are, to me, my most precious, most important… family!"

"Even if you were to kill me, the pillar would not crumble. I'm the man who inherited the will of Konoha, the will of the First and Second. I am the Third Hokage!!! No matter how much you target Konoha, there'll be a new Hokage who'll inherit my will… and become the pillar to protect Konoha!"


"And Shikamaru. You're so smart… and have great sense as a shinobi. You could definitely become Hokage. But… you're too lazy… You'd probably hate it. I never even beat you once at shōgi… Ah, yes… Remember our talk about the King?…"

"The "kings" are the unborn children who will grow up to take care of the leaf."

Don't you get the message from all of it? Well if you don't, the great 3rd Hokage put it all together for us. So:

"In this society, true power is not attained from mastering all the world's techniques. This is something I have already taught you. When there is something important to protect… that's when a shinobi's true power emerges."

And with that, I rest my case with this topic. U_U

Another thing I want to discuss is about us, readers.

3. Expressing opinions about the Naruto storyline.

This ideea of mine started after reading SasukeTheViper EMS's thead about Neji.
Here is the link if anyone is interested:

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What the man was saying is that he was basically disappointed because Kishi kind of screwed-up with the storyline and, for example, he trolled one of the best characters from Part 1, Neji.
And well, he got the typical brainless response that 'gtfo, don't watch it, bla, bla'.
People, have some of you ever heard about constructive critique?
I'll quote myself from the topic, so I won't have to write again.



So, basically here you have the definition of constructive criticisim:

"Constructive criticism is criticism kindly meant that has a goal of improving some area of another’s person’s life or work. Often constructive criticism refers specifically to the critique of someone else’s written or artistic work."

So, if I say that I don't like this, or that, it's not because, oh my God, I hate the story/show, no! Because I want it to get better. Tell me, how many of you wouldn't have loved this war to be more bad-ass?
Because we have to admit it, until now, everything around this war was rushed, unfortunately. The Sage mode was too trolled, same as the Edo Tensei who was supposed to be pretty bad-ass, the Kages were too low-dropped on power, seemed like they haven't had anything compared to Madara who was OP'd as hell and so on and so forth.
Don't get me wrong, I love Madara, Madara was into the first things that got me into Naruto, the first Naruto avi/sig I did was with Madara, I loved the mistery that surrounded him, the legends that were told about him.
That's why, unfortunately I was a little disappointed in Madara's way of being now. I would have expected him to not be so full of himself. I agree, he is one of the most bad-ass shinobi in Naruto verse, and as I previously told you, I like him very much, only that I would have loved him to be a more..how should I say it? Upright? More of a 'do-er". Instead, until he does something he has to babble about how great he was and stuff like that.
Well, we all know that he was the legendary Uchiha Madara and the merely pronunciation of his name would make many tremble, we don't need to be reminded.
I mean, I personally don't like people who worship themselves, and that's how Madara is right now. I would have loved to be the way Kishi made us believe he is in the first part.
All I am talking about here is the personality part, not the powers. The powers, hands down! Speak right of himself.
But the personality has some gaps if you ask me.
Probably some of you are going to flame me, so that's why I feel the necessity to once explain you, this is a constructive critique.
I am just expressing my opinion on how could have Kishi made Madara even greater.
If he is going to show Hashirama, I hope his personality remains intact as in the first series. A righteous person, calm, calculated with the same will of fire.

Now you've probably asking yourself why the hell have I've written so much about some uninteresting things - for some of you, or why have I written so much about this story if it's just pure fiction.
Well, until a point I will agree with you... Until a point.

4. Naruto's connections to real life

Well, now I'm going to answer you why I have written so much about this.
Well, this story is very important to me as I have learned strong lessons from it. Naruto will mean a lot for me even when I'll be older. Why?
Because I have met many things from real life and Naruto made me learn values that I never knew they existed. That's why I cherish it so much.
As well Naruto made me ask myself questions over life that I don't know if I'll ever get the answer to them.
Of course, in the story everything will end nicely, because it has to, we have to learn again the good triumphs over evil every time, so all the problems will be done. Don't get me wrong, I agree with the good vs. evil thing, I like the fact that good always triumphs over evil but, what about real life?
Is it that way?
Many of Pein's questions got stuck in my head and I still ask myself those question and try to get answers. But, for now, I haven't.

And not to mention the right to the subject quotes. I read them and I can't amaze myself that they are so true! And I ask myself what's the resolve to all of this.

As I pleasure I will let some of his quotes.

"We're both of the same breed, after all… motives for war are of no concern. Religion, ideology, resources, land, grudges, love, or just because… No matter how pathetic the reason, it's enough to start a war. War will never cease to exist… Reasons can be thought up after the fact. Human nature pursues strife."


"We are both but men, driven to seek vengeance under the banner of justice. However… if there is justice in vengeance, then justice will breed only more vengeance… thus forging more links in a chain of hatred."

I see… That is noble of you. That is justice indeed. However… My family… My friends… My village… They suffered the same fate as this village by you ninja of Konoha. How is it fair to allow only you people to preach about peace and justice?"

"Dying like trash… never ending hatred… pain that never heals… that is war…"
​

And so many others. I bet you know them.
Well, for the moment I cease my pledge here.
I know it's long, many of you will probably show me the laughing faces with I haven't read, lol, but for those who did, I thank you!
I am waiting for opinions, comments, critiques, anything except bashing and being disrespectful.
If you don't like it, SIMPLY, don't answer it! Close it. You have many options.

First of all, let me congradulate you on such an awesome thread. Of course, my comment would be pointless if I don't actually comment on what you have said, so here are some points I thought about as I read your thread.

1. Sakura Haruno/Tsunade Senju hate

I really do see what you're saying, that Kishi seems to be sexist in many of his ways, but I think I have to disagree, due to 3 examples.

The first is actually one you presented yourself. Tsunade. Nothing sexist there in my opinion. I can't think of many or any stronger-willed characters in the entire manga. She is the exact opposite of a character that he would be presenting were he actually being sexist.

The next is Choji. A boy. But he faced the exact same predicament that you mention later, having to "kill" someone he loves; namely Asuma. Here, he is portrayed as weak, he doesn't do what he needs to do when he has to. And it's true, it's a very difficult thing to do, having to kill a person you love. Choji overcame it. If Kishi were truly sexist, he would have had Ino be the one with the problem, with the weakness. But it was Choji.

The last one is Hinata. She is incredibly strong, stronger than most if not all guys. Hinata steps up to Pein when no one else would. She puts her life on the line, knowing that she'll die, because she loves Naruto. Sakura's love is strong like this, otherwise she would have killed Sasuke. But does she have strength in doing what is right? No. That is her weakness.

Besides that there is also Mei, Anko, Konan, and many many other girls who have shown great strength in standing up for what is right, against all odds, or being their own person and letting no one stop them.

Back to Sakura. Sure you say that she is what makes the bond Naruto and Sasuke have strong, and that is true! But it's not her strength that accomplishes that. It's her weakness, because so far, in the end, she has always failed in her main goal, her main test of true strength, which is to bring Sasuke back. Naruto has always had to step up in her place. Even though the circumstances (her love for Sasuke) can make it forgiveable, the problem is that she put up a farce of strength when she went after Sasuke herself. She lied even to herself, tried to tell herself that she was strong enough. And she lied to others. The fact is that she is not strong enough to do those things on her own, and she jeapordized much because she wanted to prove to herself that she was strong enough, and that just emphasized her weakness. And it's not sexism. It's her character. She tries to convince herself that she is strong enough, and her strength definitely grows (as seen in her fight against Sasori). But when her real test comes, she breaks. She needs a stronger catalyst to realize her true strength and finally take up the burden that she has been shunting onto Naruto, and I think that Kishi will show us that later. I actually made a thread where I guess at this catalyst and have it leading to her becoming the Hokage! It was just a theory however.

I totally agree on your facts of Tsunade, she is underrated, nobody realizes how much she has done and how strong she is. You made many good points.

2. Hokages display of power

My guess is that here you are proving that a hokage's strength does not reside in their actual fighting abilities, but their belief in their village, and their strength in protecting it. I agree with the points you made.

3. Expressing opinions about the Naruto storyline

I totally agree on all points made here, people should be allowed to express their opinions on whatever they want if they so wish. You said it well.

4. Naruto's connections to real life

I would have to say that there are some things about this manga that have also stuck with me and affected the way I think. The majority of it has come in the Pein arc. The questions that Pein posed made me think. Because they are transferrable to real life, and they are powerful questions. And his answer also makes me think of how peace can be achieved. Because next to him, Naruto looked to me like an idealistic child, no real knowledge of the real world. Definitely stuff I will think about beyond just the manga.

 

[teetooktier]

what makes you think kishi and his naruto story are sexist. i addressed it in my post.

1. The vast majority of the characters that significantly influence the plot are male.
2. A list of the top 20-30 strongest characters would be dominated by males.
3. Multiple main female characters are relegated to the non-combat role of medical aid.
4. Out of the characters noted for being geniuses or prodigies in-universe, the vast majority are male.
5. Multiple main female characters are dependent on male characters or have a major part of their persona defined by male characters, such as Karin, Hinata, and Sakura.
6. In battles, historically almost all females were beaten except when there was a male present.
7. Out of all the major antagonists in the show, to my knowledge only two was defeated by females.
8. Female characters get on-screen character development far less than male characters. As a result most female characters are static.

These are the main reasons why I feel that Naruto is a sexist manga.

I found your post and will respond to it.

"Calling kishi sexist goes to far. It is not a stretch, for certain real world themes to reflect story world themes. The theme that it is mostly the men that do the fighting. That a man is a stronger fighter. A mans physically abilities are proportionally stronger then a womans. These are real world themes reflected in the narutoverse."

I do not call Kishimoto sexist because most of the characters that fight are male. I object because of the female characters that do choose to fight, most if not all are below their male peers in ability, and as I said, almost none are among the best of the Naruto universe. Men having physically stronger bodies is completely meaningless in a world where combat is based on chakra manipulation. Case in point, Tsunade has far less muscles than A, and is still physically stronger than him. Combat in Naruto is about intelligence and skill, and there is no reason that females should perform any worse than males in these regards.

It's not like they take a back seat and are all medical ninja though. Tsunade was a great addition to the cast for a fan like you. Ten ten throws all kinds of stuff. Mei is an interesting vixen fighter. Yes their outnumbered by the men. Does NOT qualify for sexist.

Konan, Sakura, Ino, Hinata, Karin, Tsunade, Mei, Shizune, Chiyo. These are the female characters that we given the most screen time. Correct the list if I'm wrong. 5 out of 9, a majority, have healing abilities. None could make the top 10 strongest characters, maybe 2 can make the top 20. The only enemy Ten Ten has ever wounded with all the stuff she throws is her clone. Mei is also obsessed with marrying a man, and is sexual with her opponents. I agree that them being outnumbered does not qualify for sexism. Being out qualified does.

Sakuras hate doesn't come from being a girl it comes from her character defects. Defects that had to be slightly altered in shippuden in order for her character to keep up with the story.

No male characters have any character defects even slightly resembling her frailty and weakness. Hinata and Karin, two female characters, do.

I won't go too deep into talking about Sakura because she is one character, and one character does not make a manga sexist. I want to talk more about the manga as a whole.

Fact is you have women in the field. In the war. 2 kage. some formor jinchurikki. Honestly if you took a poll i'm sure nobody is gonna say no to more fights involving girls. We'd love to see more of anything in the narutoworld. Your argument is that you want more. Not that it is sexist.

How much have the two kages accomplished? Shikaku gave the tactical orders in battle HQ. Choujuro and Naruto were shown defeating black zetsu instead of Mei. Thus far, the pair have mainly been shown failing to defeat Madara. Whether or not females are present I agree does not matter. What the ones that are present DO, does.

P.S. The fanbase for Avatar the Last Airbender was mostly young women. They are the reason for Legend of Korra being what it is today. The sequel and legacy to all that is the avatarverse. And as a fan of the avatarverse. I find that sexist.

Avatar in my opinion had several shining examples of strong, intelligent female characters just as or more capable than their male peers. In particular, Korra is magnificent.

 

[OOOOOO]

great thread

 

[Ender Wiggin]

I loved it

 

[Chatte]

Hmmm controversial indeed. Seems like the boners had no trouble warming up to you with +rep. Such a colorful female presence on the forums. Too bad i'm an old fashioned gamer that only settles for booby pictures as proof. So i'm gonna be a little tougher to please. i'm good for this kind of stuff though.

1, THE FEMALES

Your first issue is with the female heroes. They are not strong enough. The creator must be sexist in all that he's done to hold these women back.

First of all i've never met or heard of a woman/girl that was interested in manga/video games/this stuff, that didn't also have a deep desire to see more out of the female heroine department.

Calling kishi sexist goes to far. It is not a stretch, for certain real world themes to reflect story world themes. The theme that it is mostly the men that do the fighting. That a man is a stronger fighter. A mans physically abilities are proportionally stronger then a womans. These are real world themes reflected in the narutoverse.

It's not like they take a back seat and are all medical ninja though. Tsunade was a great addition to the cast for a fan like you. Ten ten throws all kinds of stuff. Mei is an interesting vixen fighter. Yes their outnumbered by the men. Does NOT qualify for sexist.

Sakuras hate doesn't come from being a girl it comes from her character defects. Defects that had to be slightly altered in shippuden in order for her character to keep up with the story.

She is a core member of team 7 no doubt about it. Her role in team 7 as you've described Her role is clear/solid. And still. Was useless. (her words). Yes she addressed it to herself in the manga. This was so she could fix it as the story went on.

Her original character was A.Useless in battle. B.obsessed with her teenage crush on sasuke. so much so that even 3-4years later, she doesn't realize sasuke does not even consider her a part of his life.(tried to kill her at the bridge....). Shes the slit her wrists if she can't have him type.

The creators took some HUGE steps to make her stronger in all respects. You mentioned them. The reason she's still defective in mine and others minds is because we know this. This is a time when it is appropriate to disagree with a writers direction with the story, and consider your own opinion as to what should of happened, as greater. IE. She's lucky to be where she is. BUT, the story goes on.

Fact is you have women in the field. In the war. 2 kage. some formor jinchurikki. Honestly if you took a poll i'm sure nobody is gonna say no to more fights involving girls. We'd love to see more of anything in the narutoworld. Your argument is that you want more. Not that it is sexist.

As for tsunade the only person hating on her is edo madara in the manga. He's the evil dude and he's talking trash. Of course we don't agree with what he's saying. There isn't a man alive that doesn't take a shine to tsunade.

Seriously though. We know her insane strength and healing abilities. And she has many fans. You don't have to worry about her.

2. OPINIONS ON STORYLINE

This goes with what I was saying about when you might disagree with the writer on his direction. Sometimes it can be about right and wrong. And sometimes it can be about neglect. They forget to put it in or they just really couldn't/can't fit it in.

Those speculations are always fun. It's just harder to confirm it in other fans heads because you don't have the supporting word of the creator. Which for these things, that word = LAW.

3. REAL LIFE CONNECTIONS.
Naruto has real life things that kishi trys to convey. The dialogue is the most obvious. Never giving up. Beleiving in yourself.

Stuff thats harder to tell. Having a bijuu inside you represents inner strength. To not fear it and use it. And make it one with yourself.

All of manga and anime though, lacks real world experience in morality. So I suggest not getting too attached to certain....ideals.


-done

P.S. The fanbase for Avatar the Last Airbender was mostly young women. They are the reason for Legend of Korra being what it is today. The sequel and legacy to all that is the avatarverse. And as a fan of the avatarverse. I find that sexist.

First of all I didn't ask for any +rep or stuff like that. I am not here to beg for any stuff like the +rep or kumi or got knows what this site has. I am here to expose some opinions that I have, I am not here to please anyone -that implies yourself too, nor in looks or fancy talk. I made this thread as I previously said to expose my beliefs and to have a debate with the members of this base.

A normal debate, between capable people, I am not a person that does threads just to have numerous open threads and to start childish flaming wars. I have seen many threads like this so that's why when I came with the idea of this thread, it was to be some counter-attack regarding those particular ones.

As in the looks, since you expressed that many just agreed with me because of my looks I changed my sig and av, so whenever someone will be posting next on these threads, won't be misled by my looks. As in for the 'boobs things', sorry, no can do.

Now to pass on the subject themselves.

Point 1.

I have played enough video/pc-games in my life to have the, quote: "deep desire to see more out of the female heroine department", because in the games I've played, none of them didn't had great female characters that were equal to men. Generally, when you make a character, the power display is just the same, you only have to choose whether it will be a female or male.

And not, they are not strong enough, and when I say Kishi is a sexist I sustain it because throughout the series he, himself admitted that he's not good at writing strong female characters. And he has displayed many times sexism examples as in almost all female characters. The only exception that would really stand out would be Temari. But if we take the other ones in consideration there are plenty examples to be given: Sakura, Tsunade, Hinata, Ino, Ten-Ten, Mei Terumi etc.

Every single one of them has a lack of not only strenght but contain sexism stereotypes. Mei being a desperate women having issues with marriage, as in a marriage frustrate, Hinata having big problems with self-esteem, Tsunade underestimating herself just because she's a woman, Ino underestimating herself towards others and so on.

The problem here in Naruto is not only the power display gap between males and femals but also regarding the mental power that they display, therefore the points I expressed earlier. You always see females underestimating themselves just because they are females and the screen time between fights of females or males are purely different.

I agree with you that in real world men have been those who have been more physically stronger, but here, in Naruto the power is based on the same common element: chakra. Chakra is there even if you are a male or female.
So than why men are supposed to be stronger than women. Why men can develop better than women? Isn't that a clear sign of sexism?
As in for real world, we had some pretty bad-ass women out there fighting.
Let us remember Joan D'Arc - a great warrior, Mata Hari - a great spy, Gudit or also known as Judit, ruller of Etiopia who killed the last Axumit emperor and took his throne and rulled for 40 years, Trieu Thi Trinh - a vietnameese warrior , Boudicca - was none other than legendary Celtic queen of the British Isles who led an uprising against the forces of occupation proportions of the Roman Empire and so many others.
So no, women haven't been that weak neither in real world.

I agree Tsunade was a great woman for the cast. I am not a fan just of Tsunade, is not like you could entitle me just a Tsunade fight. From naruto verse I really like all characters, not just one.

I decided to write about these when I saw how many hated these characters. That's why I touched that subject.

Regarding the sexism part, I think I answered above about the subject. Oh, and not to mention how he just put Kurenai out of the story with her pregnancy.
I agree, women have to procreate but also is a process in which men take part. Why not put a male to the rest just because he's a father? See where I am going?

Oh, and not to mention as well how Kishi portrays Shikamaru's mother. Standing in the kitchen and always being that naggy housewife.

There are a lot of examples who can be given as sexism. And the fact that Kishi admited himself that he doesn't know how to deal with strong women is just a proof of his sexism as I previously stated.

Well Sakura's defects aren't they made by the writer himself? I told you in the above post, it's not only about terms of raw power, it's about terms of women having problems with self-esteem, thinking weak of themselves where as in the male characters you don't kinda see. The only one with those kind of troubles who appeard in the story was Choji, but whose mental strenght was highly increased when they fought the Sound 4. A determination which we haven't seen on Choji.

You said that her original character. But why could't her character develop like the others? Why isn't she shown as equal as Naruto and Sasuke, since Kishi follows the same pattern as with the 3 legendary shinobis or Sannins, however you want to call it. She is not just lucky she is where she is, she deserves it! She's also trained like Naruto and Sasuke. So it's her right to be there.

Yes, you do have women in the field, but compare their contribution to the war and compare the ones brought by men.
I mean Mei Terumi could have kicked ass, she has more than one kekke genkai, yet she is displayed as one of the weakest when she should have been in the top tiers.

I was not worrying about her hate in the Manga, it was normal for Madara to hate her, she's an Senju. I was talking about the hate the readers have.

Point 2.
Yeah I got your thing on that.
My direction wasn't necessary the writer, my direction was about readers and their opinions.
Some of the readers can't accept that others would have constructive critique towards the storyline, even if it's an opinion that doesn't get to the writer. People should start respecting other's opinions.

Point 3.

I wouldn't quite say that lack real world morality. Tell me, how is the war better to this world? What good it brings? This was a morality problem shown in Naruto verse, so I say it kinda doesn't lack real worl morality. It's an ideal on which you could attach.

Unfortunately I haven't seen Avatar the Last Airbender, so I can't express my opinion on that matter.

Thanks for the rep and also something I think you should add on their is how people criticize or insult kishi when they find something they don't like about the story, if they don't like it then they don't have t read it but considering all the work he goes through and we get to read it for free! It's just shameful to make hateful comments toward kishi because of things we'd prefer to be different in the manga.

Oh, yes! Forgot about that. A very interesting point!
I know there was a thread these days, amongst many other, with a furious fan yelling here and there about the fact that the manga nor the anime was released this week and OMG, how desperate was he!

I mean, there are real world problems out there and you are damatizing as a kid who didn't get his little lollipop.

I said it here and I will say it here: I would rather wait 2 week or even more, a month for a good chapter, with a good development of the story than rather have Kishi rushed because he has to release a chapter for his little hysterical fans.

And then, when the story is not that good, they know how to complain.
From this point of view, all my respect for Kishi, the man is working his ass there to get us the story and some don't even respect his work.

I am sure that if he wouldn't have been presurized by these type of fans, maybe he would have taken a good time and he would have developped better the story. But meh, who knows.

Sakura may have some strength of character, but even that pales in comparison to Naruto's determination. As for her actual fighting ability, it is objectively one of the lowest of the most of the main characters we have seen, certainly to low for her to have much impact in any of the main conflicts going on now. For these reasons sakura rightly deserves IMO her reputation as a useless crybaby. So while your post was well written, I can't agree. The rest I skimmed through, looks like good stuff.

I should add that we may not necessarily be sexist for thinking this way. Kishimoto I agree is sexist, and he has written a sexist story. Within this story, as should be therefore expected, a female character is of little use. That we recognize this doesn't mean the we are also sexist. We are simply reading a sexist story as it is.

Well, once again I bring up into discussion what Kishi is doing here, making the women characters look weak not only in terms of power, but also in terms of personality.
Of course her determination pales in comparison with Naruto's because he is the main character, but I think is a bit unfair to call her useless just because of that.
In the end she is there as a medical ninja, she isn't supposed to fight. And I think you know the medical rules Tsunade applied. And I don't think yet that Sakura has learned the ultimate jutsu, Bykugo. And she isn't useless, throughout the series, she showed her usefulness.
Remember when she extracted Kankuro's poison out of him. Not even Chyio could do that, even though she had so many years of experience back there.
Not to mention in the war, Pein arc. She was there to heal/help how she could best.
Some of these little things has to be done by some people as well, or else there would be no survivors.

I didn't said about others being sexists, I said about Kishimoto.

Awesome!there arent many people that are able to look beyond all the action,flashing effects of anime and see the true message and power of naruto story,great work

Thank you!
Well, that's just me, I like to look beyond a simple picture, I like to understand the message behind it.
Thank you once again.

yes thanks the sleep was nice , i'm guessing your asleep right now though haha

[/SPOILER]

i agree 100% with viper , the way in which you express your opinions and pick up on the true meanings is just so ... words can't express

Thank you, dear!

An awesome read, so thank you. I found the Sakura portion to be the most interesting, I agree that she is the balance between sasuke and Naruto. She may be annoying most of the time but she also adds lightness at certain times where it is needed. I also feel a need to comment on your opinion that Kishi may be sexist. It is hard to say that he is or is not. But from what I have seen I also agree, he always places the men in a more dominating role while the women always seem to be relying on them or crying. But there are exceptions for that too, because Sakura is more independent now, and her fight with Sasori was on par with Sasukes fight with Deidara.

Hmm, haven't thought at that comparison between the fights.
And regarding Sakura, well I have expressed my opinion in her earlier so I won't repeat myself once again but thank you for commenting as well as seeing beyond what others see, just a crybaby Sakura.

I think it's funny that one of the biggest points of this thread is sexism and most of the guys who reply here are going to say they agree with your thread just because you have your pic in your ava and you are a beautiful woman. Lol just had to point that out.

Well, as I said before, believe me, I haven't done this thread for people just to agree with me for the avatar and sig, I have done it because I think so and I want people's real opinion. I made it so we can debate, I don't need people to agree with me just because of that. Therefore I changed the avatar and the sig. Let's see now.
And thanks for the compliment, as well.

i wrote a huge post for that in the thread.

but yea i just commented asking that. i refrained from telling my joke but now that i have support.

you think its sexist or your just trying to get in her digital red pants.

Well I think this description it's just a bit out of its box...

Edo Kushina!!! oh but they didn't, I really want to know the depths of Kushina "special chakra" which naruto probably acquired through genetics, but I think she is strong and could of been a good edo, at least to go against naruto.

Huh? I kinda didn't get that...

First of all, let me congradulate you on such an awesome thread. Of course, my comment would be pointless if I don't actually comment on what you have said, so here are some points I thought about as I read your thread.

1. Sakura Haruno/Tsunade Senju hate

I really do see what you're saying, that Kishi seems to be sexist in many of his ways, but I think I have to disagree, due to 3 examples.

The first is actually one you presented yourself. Tsunade. Nothing sexist there in my opinion. I can't think of many or any stronger-willed characters in the entire manga. She is the exact opposite of a character that he would be presenting were he actually being sexist.

The next is Choji. A boy. But he faced the exact same predicament that you mention later, having to "kill" someone he loves; namely Asuma. Here, he is portrayed as weak, he doesn't do what he needs to do when he has to. And it's true, it's a very difficult thing to do, having to kill a person you love. Choji overcame it. If Kishi were truly sexist, he would have had Ino be the one with the problem, with the weakness. But it was Choji.

The last one is Hinata. She is incredibly strong, stronger than most if not all guys. Hinata steps up to Pein when no one else would. She puts her life on the line, knowing that she'll die, because she loves Naruto. Sakura's love is strong like this, otherwise she would have killed Sasuke. But does she have strength in doing what is right? No. That is her weakness.

Besides that there is also Mei, Anko, Konan, and many many other girls who have shown great strength in standing up for what is right, against all odds, or being their own person and letting no one stop them.

Back to Sakura. Sure you say that she is what makes the bond Naruto and Sasuke have strong, and that is true! But it's not her strength that accomplishes that. It's her weakness, because so far, in the end, she has always failed in her main goal, her main test of true strength, which is to bring Sasuke back. Naruto has always had to step up in her place. Even though the circumstances (her love for Sasuke) can make it forgiveable, the problem is that she put up a farce of strength when she went after Sasuke herself. She lied even to herself, tried to tell herself that she was strong enough. And she lied to others. The fact is that she is not strong enough to do those things on her own, and she jeapordized much because she wanted to prove to herself that she was strong enough, and that just emphasized her weakness. And it's not sexism. It's her character. She tries to convince herself that she is strong enough, and her strength definitely grows (as seen in her fight against Sasori). But when her real test comes, she breaks. She needs a stronger catalyst to realize her true strength and finally take up the burden that she has been shunting onto Naruto, and I think that Kishi will show us that later. I actually made a thread where I guess at this catalyst and have it leading to her becoming the Hokage! It was just a theory however.

I totally agree on your facts of Tsunade, she is underrated, nobody realizes how much she has done and how strong she is. You made many good points.

2. Hokages display of power

My guess is that here you are proving that a hokage's strength does not reside in their actual fighting abilities, but their belief in their village, and their strength in protecting it. I agree with the points you made.

3. Expressing opinions about the Naruto storyline

I totally agree on all points made here, people should be allowed to express their opinions on whatever they want if they so wish. You said it well.

4. Naruto's connections to real life

I would have to say that there are some things about this manga that have also stuck with me and affected the way I think. The majority of it has come in the Pein arc. The questions that Pein posed made me think. Because they are transferrable to real life, and they are powerful questions. And his answer also makes me think of how peace can be achieved. Because next to him, Naruto looked to me like an idealistic child, no real knowledge of the real world. Definitely stuff I will think about beyond just the manga.

Thank you for your reply, first of all.
Second, when I refer to sexism I said somewhere up why I consider it sexism. Yes, I agree, Tsunade is a great character, a great addition to the cast, but her reply in the Madara fight with "I'm a woman" I consider it to be another sign of sexism.

Regarding Choji yeah, he has issues but he's the only one with those issues, as a man, if you put in balance the men and the women from this manga, well I think you know where the balance is tilteling. As for Ino, she has a lot of issues herself. But I am glad, I won't be lying that she proved herself in the end to be a strong-minded girl.

Actually, in the last chapters Kishimoto's sexism, after the Tsunade 'woman' thing, seems to get lower. Maybe he is gettin' rid of that tendency of his. Dunno what to say.

As for Hinata, I agree, she is a strong character, but isn't Kishimoto keeping her always in Naruto shade? I think he could do more about that. She is also in Neji's shadow, where she could have surpassed him as well. But, as I previously said, that's just my opinion.

Regarding the Sakura thing, well I have to agree with you, but that's what gets on my nervs. As I previously said, why the women in this show have to be emotionally weak? Because as far as I've seen and as far as psychologists say, girls mature quicker than boys...That's why I say that Kishi is a sexist.

But I repeat myself, after the last fight with Madara and the kages, I hope he kinda corrects this tendecy of his since Tsunade has showed to be one of the top tiers.

Regarding the hokage display of power, yes, that's what I expressed.

Regarding the opinion thins, yes, this is what I believe. Of course, maybe I forgot to say it there, I said about the constructive critique, yes, it is a critique made with a common sense, I am not talking about the other side in which many tend to fall, meaning getting all histerical because they're favourite character got kicked or Kishi's deplaying the manga.

And regarding the connection to the real world, I agree with you 100%. These questions are somewhere behind my mind as well.

Thank you for your time on replying to this thread!
It was very nice to talk to you.

1. The vast majority of the characters that significantly influence the plot are male.
2. A list of the top 20-30 strongest characters would be dominated by males.
3. Multiple main female characters are relegated to the non-combat role of medical aid.
4. Out of the characters noted for being geniuses or prodigies in-universe, the vast majority are male.
5. Multiple main female characters are dependent on male characters or have a major part of their persona defined by male characters, such as Karin, Hinata, and Sakura.
6. In battles, historically almost all females were beaten except when there was a male present.
7. Out of all the major antagonists in the show, to my knowledge only two was defeated by females.
8. Female characters get on-screen character development far less than male characters. As a result most female characters are static.

These are the main reasons why I feel that Naruto is a sexist manga.

I found your post and will respond to it.

"Calling kishi sexist goes to far. It is not a stretch, for certain real world themes to reflect story world themes. The theme that it is mostly the men that do the fighting. That a man is a stronger fighter. A mans physically abilities are proportionally stronger then a womans. These are real world themes reflected in the narutoverse."

I do not call Kishimoto sexist because most of the characters that fight are male. I object because of the female characters that do choose to fight, most if not all are below their male peers in ability, and as I said, almost none are among the best of the Naruto universe. Men having physically stronger bodies is completely meaningless in a world where combat is based on chakra manipulation. Case in point, Tsunade has far less muscles than A, and is still physically stronger than him. Combat in Naruto is about intelligence and skill, and there is no reason that females should perform any worse than males in these regards.

It's not like they take a back seat and are all medical ninja though. Tsunade was a great addition to the cast for a fan like you. Ten ten throws all kinds of stuff. Mei is an interesting vixen fighter. Yes their outnumbered by the men. Does NOT qualify for sexist.

Konan, Sakura, Ino, Hinata, Karin, Tsunade, Mei, Shizune, Chiyo. These are the female characters that we given the most screen time. Correct the list if I'm wrong. 5 out of 9, a majority, have healing abilities. None could make the top 10 strongest characters, maybe 2 can make the top 20. The only enemy Ten Ten has ever wounded with all the stuff she throws is her clone. Mei is also obsessed with marrying a man, and is sexual with her opponents. I agree that them being outnumbered does not qualify for sexism. Being out qualified does.

Sakuras hate doesn't come from being a girl it comes from her character defects. Defects that had to be slightly altered in shippuden in order for her character to keep up with the story.

No male characters have any character defects even slightly resembling her frailty and weakness. Hinata and Karin, two female characters, do.

I won't go too deep into talking about Sakura because she is one character, and one character does not make a manga sexist. I want to talk more about the manga as a whole.

Fact is you have women in the field. In the war. 2 kage. some formor jinchurikki. Honestly if you took a poll i'm sure nobody is gonna say no to more fights involving girls. We'd love to see more of anything in the narutoworld. Your argument is that you want more. Not that it is sexist.

How much have the two kages accomplished? Shikaku gave the tactical orders in battle HQ. Choujuro and Naruto were shown defeating black zetsu instead of Mei. Thus far, the pair have mainly been shown failing to defeat Madara. Whether or not females are present I agree does not matter. What the ones that are present DO, does.

P.S. The fanbase for Avatar the Last Airbender was mostly young women. They are the reason for Legend of Korra being what it is today. The sequel and legacy to all that is the avatarverse. And as a fan of the avatarverse. I find that sexist.

Avatar in my opinion had several shining examples of strong, intelligent female characters just as or more capable than their male peers. In particular, Korra is magnificent.

Great reply. You said it best than I could have done it. +rep

great thread

Thank you and thanks for taking the time to reply.

I loved it

Glad you did. Thank you for the reply.

 

[Yugure]

I was half-way before I lost my concentration>.< From what I've read, you got some good points

I'll read the other half later one, when my brain has processed the informationU_U

 

[Chatte]

Well, thanks for reading that half, anyway.
When you read it all, I'd like to hear your opinion.

 

[mintoandkushina]

Great text! Most of all, that music in the video! *Sob Sob* It was super emotional! :T_T:

 

[Chatte]

Thank you!
Well, yeah, that music has its play. It's meant to make some people understand better some actions, whenever I listen to that music of Naruto, I start concentrating more on the character's acts, I try to understand them better, what are their true purpose or what Kishi wants to show us through those actions etc.

Thanks for reading! ^_^

 

[drslim]

Love your post.

Here is

You must be registered for see links

, being a Sakura fan.

Kishi is a sexist. But maybe that's because he writes for a mostly male adolescent audience, and he knows where the money/attention is ;]

But, Naruto has a really nice storyline, except the recent explanation about Itachi. That is just such a turnoff.

Finally, I love your quotes. And I agree that it's cool for people to try to make the story even better by being on NB.

"True power appears when you fight for someone else".

 

[Chatte]

Love your post.

Here is

You must be registered for see links

, being a Sakura fan.

Kishi is a sexist. But maybe that's because he writes for a mostly male adolescent audience, and he knows where the money/attention is ;]

But, Naruto has a really nice storyline, except the recent explanation about Itachi. That is just such a turnoff.

Finally, I love your quotes. And I agree that it's cool for people to try to make the story even better by being on NB.

"True power appears when you fight for someone else".

Checked the theory, pretty nice. It's not that I am a Sakura fan, for me they are all important. I can't pick a favorite one, hehe.

But indeed Sakura became some of my top favourites - if I may say like this after I saw all the hate towards her. I'm just not a crowd follower.

Well, the only quote that I can say it would be mine - but not totally mine, cause I've heard it somewhere - is the one with the tears, regarding Sakura.
The rest are just quotes from the show.

 

[ziggyZ]

Hello, everyone!​

You must be registered for see images

First of all, let me say that before doing this thread, I have been thinking about this for a long time, whether to do this thread or not. (PS: In case you decide to read it, I would recommend to listen to this on the background:

You must be registered for see links

)

Regarding myself, I am not such a big thread opener, if you count my threads, they're max. 6 or something like that.

Leaving that aside, I don't know how much I am going to be writing here so, if you are not prepared to read a quite long chit-chat thread, I would kindly ask you not to flame the thread - although I am prepared for the flaming, considering the types of subject I want to 'touch'.

My thread it's going to be about the storyline, generally, being it manga or anime - some have only read the manga, some have only seen the anime, some both -, about the whole meaning behind the Naruto tale, about us, the readers, about misconceptions, about us as people and what we have learned from this tale, about everything, don't know, you mean it!

Maybe I won't be touching some subject and you want to do it, please, do it! All I ask is to be presented in a respectful way, if not, than don't post at all, thank you!

I am going to be touching subject that have been very controversial.

So, let me start:

1. Sakura Haruno/Tsunade Senju hate

Just because they're females and they don't have flashy jutsus, they are one of the most hated characters in the whole Naruto verse. Why? Maybe because Kishimoto's sexism got to you too! And I am sure that to some of you it did.
And don't tell me it didn't because I won't believe it not in a million years. It's a proven fact, one leads the way, the others (the majority) follows. Look at the whole democracy thing where we are supposed to have free will but, as a mere fact, we're just some tools. We're given the ideea that we have freedom while we forget to THINK - a simple process - so, in that way, we became useful tools, as I previously stated.
If someone asks himself/herself what I am talking about all I'll have to say is that I am talking about mass-population control. Google it, do whatever you want to do about it, in order to find more about the thing.

Anyway, what I mean is that if Kishimoto is a sexist, it's logical that mostly of its readers become sexists, he just transposes his way to be to the readers through the story.

Why do I say he is sexist? Well look at it: compare the battles in which the men from Naruto series have been portrayed and compare the women's ones.
The most eloquent one: Chuunin exams. All the rest fights compared to Ino-Sakura fight. Clearly the men were the dominant power.
Which, if you ask me, not that I'm a girl, I am the one who believes in equality of the human being, be it woman or man, it's not right.
Ino - Sakura fight could have had the same awesomeness as the boys fights.
If that's not sexism, then what is it?
Secondly, the way he made Sakura all whinny little scared girl.
It's not like that, girls generally are known to be more mature and strong willing than boys - no offense! He just didn't gave her any type of bloodline, nothing. Just a great intellect - she was the one that was the best from team 7 in class.

Another thing is that you say that all she does is count on Naruto. It's not like that, the biggest thing that made the majority of you think that, was the Sasuke retrieval arc.

Well, let me say something to you: IF it wouldn't be for Sakura to ask Naruto to bring Sasuke back, the bond between both of them (Sasuke and Naruto) wouldn't have been that strong. Why? Because Sakura was the one who strengthened that bond, she told Naruto that HE was the only one able to bring him back so that made Naruto think more about his connection/bond to Sasuke.

Yes, that whinny little girl did that, she is the balance between Naruto and Sasuke. Sakura always loved Sasuke, who was too busy playing cool, who made Naruto in the progress of gaining more of Sakura's attention compete with him, who made Sasuke knowledge Naruto's power, which made them rivals/best friends.

Most of you don't understand these little hidden things because all you are busy with power displays and flashy jutsus.

Secondly, you don't seem to understand emotions. Sakura cries, yes, she does that a lot, but she doesn't cry because she's weak, she cries because she's too powerful mentally, that somehow she has to let it all out.

Tears are not of those who are weak, but of those who have been strong for too long.
​

And, yes! Even if you deny this, the facts show it, and maybe not in a regular day by day basis where you wouldn't understand, but in a fight.

Remember when she just kicked Ino out of her head? Well that's mental power! Pure raw mental power.
Besides that, let's bring it down to the human part - how many of you have loved? But truly loved! I am talking to those of you who know what love is. Do you know how it feels when your love is unshared? Do you have any ideea? Just because the majority of you are boys and boys usually don't display emotions, doesn't mean that you can hide the fact that we all feel/have feelings. Because, in the end, that's what Naruto is about. Human things like feelings, bonds etc.
Maybe someday when you'll love and get hurt and be somewhere alone in a corner, crying your asses out, maybe that some day you will remember this annoying character who just used to express her feelings too much - for some.

Another thing, you keep blaming her for telling Naruto that she loved him, that she doesn't love Sasuke anymore and you say that she was just being bitchy.

Does any of you have any idea on how much pressure was on her heart? Does any of you think about the torment in her mind? Having to protect her good friend and killing the one she loves.
She didn't tell Naruto she loved him because she was trying to act as a bitch, she did it because she was trying to PROTECT him. As best as she could! How do you think Naruto would have react if she just told him the truth? She just needed to know Naruto safe, not being exposed to any threats. Even if Naruto in the end found out and got there.

Which led me to the next subject I want to expose. That she was weak when she got there to kill Sasuke and then, again, she had to be saved. Ok, I agree, she had to be saved... but my question to you is this: how many of you can kill the one you love? Do you think it was so easy for Sakura to go there and try in doing it? No, it wasn't!

Maybe this was the wake-up call for her, this was necessary for her to finally see that Sasuke is not the Sasuke she once knew and that next time she will need to be more careful. Although she will keep hoping that someday Sasuke will come back and be the Sasuke she knew.
Admit it, we all hope! That's the main thing we do when things usually get ****ed-up, we still damn hope! Because this is what hope is, a lying bitch that makes us believe everything will get better and so she manages to lie ourselves until we're bye-bye, if you know what I mean.

Sakura once again has to be thanked because she saved both of them, Naruto and Sasuke. Remember the first part, against the Sound team. She wasn't that great, didn't had that many flashy jutsus but she fought until the last moment to protect both of them. She showed then how powerful is, how strong her will is! She didn't cared about the sacrifice she had to make in order to keep both Sasuke and Naruto alive. She cut her hair - a very precious thing for her. Tell me how many of you gave up to a very very very precious thing for your friends. But truly did. Because we have to admit, we tend to be pretty selfish people. Her will for the ones she love is just among the most powerful ones in the whole Narutoverse.

For example, here you have a pretty clear view of her will:

"I'll get you! Even if you blow off my arms and legs, if I take in your poison and it paralyzes me, I'll get you I swear it! No matter how much you resist, no matter what you do.... I'll beat you half to death and make you talk about Orochimaru!! Got it?"​

- this is Sakura to Sasori. So yes, she's strong willed when she wants something. Doesn't matter what she has to do, she just does it! And in the end she did it.

Now, most of you will probably say that it was thanks to Chyio, that it wasn't an unfair fight and so on.
Well, let me tell you, it wasn't!
If it wouldn't have been for Sakura, Chyio would have died more quickly. Tell me how Chyio would have been able to dodge the iron sand if it wasn't for Sakura?
It was a fair fight, Sasori had the main puppet, himself and the other 100 puppets while Chyio had Sakura and the 10 puppets. It was even in power display. So stop saying it was an unfair fight. It was! And Sasori himself acknowledged Sakura's power and admitted she is not a brat to be played with.

And don't worry, if Sasori was defeated, it's not such a big deal. He still remains the Sasori of Great Red Sand, a true worthy shinoby of his name. He just died with honor, fighting!
So in terms of will and raw power, Sakura rocks hard! Yes, even without all those flashy jutsus.

"I may not have amazing weapons in me like a puppet, but what I do have is my masters contempt for losing... what I also got from my master was unarmed combat skills" ​

So, yeah, whenever you say you hate her just because she's weak and she cries a lot, think about the cause first, don't go directly to the effect!

Speaking of will power, here I pass down to Tsunade.
The legendary kunoichi Tsunade. Just because she was Senju and happens to be Senju Hashirama's granddaughter, and just because she doesn't have a mokuton bloodline, no flashy jutsu, just raw power and EXCELLENT medical ninja skills, she is trashed/bashed/hated however you want to say.
Most of you criticized her in the Pein arc just because she stood there and, supposedly to you, didn't do nothing. But the fact that she kept alive the whole village, it's nothing to you.
Maybe she should have left everyone to die? Maybe that's how you would have loved her? I don't know.
That's a thing that bothers me, if it's not about pure flashy jutsus - as I like to call them, you don't care at all. You don't see behind that stuff, the human part, as I previously said.
You forget that big things are done from many small things. A small gesture here, a small gesture there, and in the end gets something big.
The spring doesn't come with one flower.
And to return at the Pein arc, even after she used most of her chakra, Tsunade came down to fight Pein, as weakened as she was. Only that Naruto appeared in the main stage and asked her to back off. She did that because Naruto asked her, not because that was her intention. NO!
Her intention was to protect the Leaf, even with the cost of her life.

"Why am I putting my life on the line? Because now… I am the Fifth Hokage of Konohagakure!"
​

Speaking of life, here I go to the next one.
Some of you keep accusing her that she left Jiraya die. No, she didn't! She actually wanted to go with him, be there with him, but Jiraya asked her to stay in the village. And she had to stay, the village cannot stay without a Hokage. Besides, she trusted him as he trusted her.
And that means with the title of Hokage! All of you keep saying that she is crappy as a Hokage but look at the war arc how badass she is. She was the only one who could smash into Madara's Susano'o. I don't think that's nothing. I mean, come on, she is best known for her raw power who cannot be matched by anyone in the Narutoverse. If she wouldn't have been great, Jiraya wouldn't have searched for her if he wouldn't have been sure she is a great candidate. Even with hall his power he admitted it that she is a strong ninja. Remember that he has been close to death twice. One of them was because of Tsunade.
But about Tsunade, so I won't make it long, I would love to show you some of Tazzilla's posts. That man is an encyclopedia when it comes to explaining her feats.
The most important thing that Tsunade has, even if it's not the most powerful from the Hokages and stuff like that, she has the most powerful will of FIRE! Besides Hashirama, of course.
Speaking of will of fire, I will pass to the next topic I want to share my opinion about.

2. Hokages display of power.

What do I refer on when I say Hokage's display of power?
Well, generally what I've seen on NB is people arguing on who is the most powerful Hokage. Whether is Hashirama, Tobirama, Hiruzen or Minato.
All those threads started hatred amongst yourselves making you forget the true purpose of a hokage.
And when I say the true purpose, I refer to that little teaching Hiruzen gave to Asuma about the King, who later, passed to Shikamaru.
The true Hokage purpose lies withing the "king' theory and into the will of fire.

I will let you some quotes here, maybe you'll think more about this whole power thing, and maybe you'll start to appreciate/value more every Hokage Konoha had, instead of arguing amongst yourselves.

"Konoha is my home! The Hokage is one who continues to act as the main pillar of the house, protecting it!! He's the one who carries the will of Konoha, entrusted with it…"

"To me Konoha isn't just an organisation. Every year there are a lot of ninja born and raised in Konoha… They live, fight to protect this village and what is precious they would go to their death. Even if we are not related by blood, those of the village like these are, to me, my most precious, most important… family!"

"Even if you were to kill me, the pillar would not crumble. I'm the man who inherited the will of Konoha, the will of the First and Second. I am the Third Hokage!!! No matter how much you target Konoha, there'll be a new Hokage who'll inherit my will… and become the pillar to protect Konoha!"


"And Shikamaru. You're so smart… and have great sense as a shinobi. You could definitely become Hokage. But… you're too lazy… You'd probably hate it. I never even beat you once at shōgi… Ah, yes… Remember our talk about the King?…"

"The "kings" are the unborn children who will grow up to take care of the leaf."

Don't you get the message from all of it? Well if you don't, the great 3rd Hokage put it all together for us. So:

"In this society, true power is not attained from mastering all the world's techniques. This is something I have already taught you. When there is something important to protect… that's when a shinobi's true power emerges."

And with that, I rest my case with this topic. U_U

Another thing I want to discuss is about us, readers.

3. Expressing opinions about the Naruto storyline.

This ideea of mine started after reading SasukeTheViper EMS's thead about Neji.
Here is the link if anyone is interested:

You must be registered for see links

What the man was saying is that he was basically disappointed because Kishi kind of screwed-up with the storyline and, for example, he trolled one of the best characters from Part 1, Neji.
And well, he got the typical brainless response that 'gtfo, don't watch it, bla, bla'.
People, have some of you ever heard about constructive critique?
I'll quote myself from the topic, so I won't have to write again.



So, basically here you have the definition of constructive criticisim:

"Constructive criticism is criticism kindly meant that has a goal of improving some area of another’s person’s life or work. Often constructive criticism refers specifically to the critique of someone else’s written or artistic work."

So, if I say that I don't like this, or that, it's not because, oh my God, I hate the story/show, no! Because I want it to get better. Tell me, how many of you wouldn't have loved this war to be more bad-ass?
Because we have to admit it, until now, everything around this war was rushed, unfortunately. The Sage mode was too trolled, same as the Edo Tensei who was supposed to be pretty bad-ass, the Kages were too low-dropped on power, seemed like they haven't had anything compared to Madara who was OP'd as hell and so on and so forth.
Don't get me wrong, I love Madara, Madara was into the first things that got me into Naruto, the first Naruto avi/sig I did was with Madara, I loved the mistery that surrounded him, the legends that were told about him.
That's why, unfortunately I was a little disappointed in Madara's way of being now. I would have expected him to not be so full of himself. I agree, he is one of the most bad-ass shinobi in Naruto verse, and as I previously told you, I like him very much, only that I would have loved him to be a more..how should I say it? Upright? More of a 'do-er". Instead, until he does something he has to babble about how great he was and stuff like that.
Well, we all know that he was the legendary Uchiha Madara and the merely pronunciation of his name would make many tremble, we don't need to be reminded.
I mean, I personally don't like people who worship themselves, and that's how Madara is right now. I would have loved to be the way Kishi made us believe he is in the first part.
All I am talking about here is the personality part, not the powers. The powers, hands down! Speak right of himself.
But the personality has some gaps if you ask me.
Probably some of you are going to flame me, so that's why I feel the necessity to once explain you, this is a constructive critique.
I am just expressing my opinion on how could have Kishi made Madara even greater.
If he is going to show Hashirama, I hope his personality remains intact as in the first series. A righteous person, calm, calculated with the same will of fire.

Now you've probably asking yourself why the hell have I've written so much about some uninteresting things - for some of you, or why have I written so much about this story if it's just pure fiction.
Well, until a point I will agree with you... Until a point.

4. Naruto's connections to real life

Well, now I'm going to answer you why I have written so much about this.
Well, this story is very important to me as I have learned strong lessons from it. Naruto will mean a lot for me even when I'll be older. Why?
Because I have met many things from real life and Naruto made me learn values that I never knew they existed. That's why I cherish it so much.
As well Naruto made me ask myself questions over life that I don't know if I'll ever get the answer to them.
Of course, in the story everything will end nicely, because it has to, we have to learn again the good triumphs over evil every time, so all the problems will be done. Don't get me wrong, I agree with the good vs. evil thing, I like the fact that good always triumphs over evil but, what about real life?
Is it that way?
Many of Pein's questions got stuck in my head and I still ask myself those question and try to get answers. But, for now, I haven't.

And not to mention the right to the subject quotes. I read them and I can't amaze myself that they are so true! And I ask myself what's the resolve to all of this.

As I pleasure I will let some of his quotes.

"We're both of the same breed, after all… motives for war are of no concern. Religion, ideology, resources, land, grudges, love, or just because… No matter how pathetic the reason, it's enough to start a war. War will never cease to exist… Reasons can be thought up after the fact. Human nature pursues strife."


"We are both but men, driven to seek vengeance under the banner of justice. However… if there is justice in vengeance, then justice will breed only more vengeance… thus forging more links in a chain of hatred."

I see… That is noble of you. That is justice indeed. However… My family… My friends… My village… They suffered the same fate as this village by you ninja of Konoha. How is it fair to allow only you people to preach about peace and justice?"

"Dying like trash… never ending hatred… pain that never heals… that is war…"
​

And so many others. I bet you know them.
Well, for the moment I cease my pledge here.
I know it's long, many of you will probably show me the laughing faces with I haven't read, lol, but for those who did, I thank you!
I am waiting for opinions, comments, critiques, anything except bashing and being disrespectful.
If you don't like it, SIMPLY, don't answer it! Close it. You have many options.

Bro this is probs one of the dopest threads out yeh.
Finally bro we have someone that actually makes threads that make sense yeh.
A lot of typing though. Anyway thnx yeh, learned a lot bro.
+REP

 

[Negative Knight]

Nice one, Lol i appreciate how much you wrote when i tried it for myself in my Kagami Uchiha Thread

Pretty good ideas on there i don't think Tsunade is weak herself but comparing her to Hashirama-Minato she doesn't quite reach the bar

Jiraya would of been better as Hokage as he was stronger than Minato

Sakura however has caused more pain than pain and she leads naruto along and uses that Naruto likes her to her own advantage

 

[soulless uchiha]

I must disagree on the sakura and chiyo vs sasori part. the same can be said about sakura.

 

[YondaimesLegacy]

This is such a good thread!!

I have long awaited for people to open their eyes and realize the messages behind each characters role. Be they, Kage, Medic nin, Naruto, or sensei. All of them are an integral part to what is unfolding right now. They are a part of a fantastic manga with a lot of controversy and heart.

Flaming children have their role too. They enjoy the manga and construct their own versions to amend what they see flawed just as they hate on anything that doesn't go their way. One moment in particular is the itachi sasuke reunion. Where hatred ran rampant, and fantasy story lines began to strike me. I was just ****ing happy that there is even any face time between the two. I mean it's the ****ing uchiha brothers!!! XD

I bring them up cause I find it disgraceful that anyone could find something wrong with their reunion. You haven't learned naruto's message if that is true. Hatred and pain it really is useless. I'm not shooting you dead yet. I admire creativity and imagination and dissapointments. Even I hate the little time they spent together. But that short time was a blessing, (What with the kotoamatsukami and all xP. Such a great twist.) and I appreciated it. You don't lack appreciation if you flame naruto, but if you allow pain, no matter how watered down the intensity may be, any form of it, you waste your time and energy.

A little side note in regards to kage...mainly Hokage. The fourth is a great example of true strength. Strength manifested through his desire to protect his village his kid and his beloved kushina. It is because of this that he singlehandedly dealt with his situation, and gave up his life. He shows great strength in his defeat because although someone who remained alive could be named stronger. To die protecting the ones you love is true strength. All hokages (except fifth and sixth) can say they've done this it is only made truly evident with the fourth.

Thank you for reading.

 

[ShadowBandit]

Nice thread, good analysis. I havent met a Sakura hater, with any sense in my lifetime. All their hate does come from some weird unnaturally bais.

"Sakura can't get over Sasuke, that why I hate her ***** ass!!"

But people don't seem to mind that Naruto can't seem to get over Sasuke as well.

"Sakura weak, she can't beat anybody"

Well not true again, considering she's done more than other younger generation kunochi, but she is still the most hated.

 

[realobito1]

I hat sakura because she is annoying crybaby. Tsunade is alright in my book. Besides the fact that she let the whole village get destroyed by pain and called herself protecting the village by healing people instead of just eliminating the threat. She is weak and she knows she is weak. They are both the weakest of their respective teams. Did not get past that section it was to much for me.