Onoki vs Deva Path

[FloriGlori]

Yeah, when bansho tenin is used on you, you won't be able to move a muscle. So he can just stab him in the head....

That's quite some statement. It's wrong, though. Kakashi was able to take out a chain and throw it while being attracted by Bansho Ten'in.

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[Gingka Uzumaki]

Onoki Low Diff.

 

[Kurogane]

That's quite some statement. It's wrong, though. Kakashi was able to take out a chain and throw it while being attracted by Bansho Ten'in.

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I can argue to that. Kakashi just use the momentum to reach his pocket and swing chain slightly to the back.
It might also be that bansho tenin has scale level too. When nagato used it against km Naruto, naruto wasn't able to punch or even move a muscle, he used chakra arms which is not requires a body movement. And we know that km naruto prowess >>> kakashi

 

[FloriGlori]

I can argue to that. Kakashi just use the momentum to reach his pocket and swing chain slightly to the back.
It might also be that bansho tenin has scale level too. When nagato used it against km Naruto, naruto wasn't able to punch or even move a muscle, he used chakra arms which is not requires a body movement. And we know that km naruto prowess >>> kakashi

Insufficient argumentation.

Kakashi obviously threw the chain with power, otherwise it wouldn't have wrapped the pillar. Matter of fact is that Kakashi grabbed a chain and threw it after being attracted, which disproves your statement.

Spoiler

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As for Naruto using a Chakra arm, it simply was the best way to escape Bansho Ten'in, especially since Nagato was further throwing a rock at him. There's nothing more to it. The very fact that the arm was able to move and get Naruto out of Bansho Ten'in's line proves that it's possible to move during the attraction indeed. Not to mention that Nagato's techniques were said to be stronger than Pain's.

 

[Raito]

Flori, Bansho Tenins traction is variable and in the normal case you can't even move. I think this first Bansho Tenin was shown purposely slow, in order to demonstrate the Jutsus effect. Similar when Itachi activated his Susanoo in front of Sasuke slowly, though its activation is lightning fast.

 

[Tosen]

loool Onoki wins, The only way that deva can win is if he uses a CT right of the bat and hopes for the best.

 

[FloriGlori]

Flori, Bansho Tenins traction is variable and in the normal case you can't even move. I think this first Bansho Tenin was shown purposely slow, in order to demonstrate the Jutsus effect. Similar when Itachi activated his Susanoo in front of Sasuke slowly, though its activation is lightning fast.

Oh, you can think what you want, my dear honey. Fact is, though, that the technique allowed Kakashi to move. Pain reacted to that by increasing the force, but that changes nothing about the very fact that Kakashi was able to move indeed. Just like Naruto's Chakra arm was able to move.

I don't know what purpose that comparison with Susanoo had, since we're not discussing the speed of Bansho Ten'in. Furthermore it was activated lightning fast the first time, otherwise it wouldn't have blocked Kirin.

Not to mention that it's only one of the few ways Oonoki has to counter/escape Bansho Ten'in.

 

[Raito]

Fact is also that Bansho Tenin was used in an instant, where moving became impossible. Besides Naruto did not move while the attraction but shot out his chakra arm in the last moment, without moving. And I don't know why you always going to bring up the worst examples when he already showed he can do it better.

 

[FloriGlori]

No, you got that wrong. Dodging is impossible, moving during the attraction, on the other hand, isn't. I don't know what you are talking about, there aren't any better or worse examples of Bansho Ten'in. Kakashi is simply the most skilled Shinobi it was used against. And Kakashi showed clearly and unmistakably that moving is possible during Bansho Ten'in's effects, though severely restricted.

Indeed, Naruto himself did not move, but the Chakra arm, a physical form of Chakra, did. It was able to resist the attraction and brought up enough force to get Naruto out of Bansho Ten'in's line.

 

[Raito]

Bansho Tenins traction is variable, just as Shinra Tenseis thrust. Deva attracted Naruto two times in an instant, without a chance for him to move. In the same way Deva increased Bansho Tenins traction when Kakashi was holding on his chain.

Anyway, it is a matter of opinion.

 

[Negative Knight]

Oonki, he dematerializes them and they no longer exist on a molecular level

 

[FloriGlori]

I'm not denying that in any way, but I am saying that it is possible to move during the attraction. And that, my dear, is not a matter of opinion but a matter of fact.

Not to mention that Naruto is, with all due respect, not even close to be as skilled as Kakashi.

 

[Raito]

..and the stronger Bansho Tennins traction is, the harder it is to act - The Bansho Tenin Kakashi was attracted with, wasn't the strongest, Deva increased its traction steadily while could use the full power immediately. And I missed the argument how the old Oonoki will intend to counter it.

 

[FloriGlori]

Not really, since it seemingly only attracts one part of the body, in most cases the torso. Just look at Chibaku Tensei, whose attraction is way stronger - it's totally possible to move under its effects.

 

[Raito]

A far fetched comparison. Chibaku Tensei attracts the whole surroundings, while Bansho Tenins traction is concentrated at one object.

 

[FloriGlori]

That's not changing the very fact that Chibaku Tensei is strong enough to attract rocks that have more than ten times the size of a human. Bansho Ten'in is concentrated, but it doesn't completely restrict movement.

 

[Raito]

You compare apples with pears. Since Bansho Tenin is concentrated at one object, the attraction is done faster. Maybe you can move during the attraction, but yet it is almost impossible to act if Deva uses the full traction of Bansho Tenin (For example two times against Naruto). With a full powered Bansho Tenin, there'll be no time to act like Kakashi did and even if yes, what is Oonokis counter for this?

 

[FloriGlori]

You compare apples with pears. Since Bansho Tenin is concentrated at one object, the attraction is done faster. Maybe you can move during the attraction, but yet it is almost impossible to act if Deva uses the full traction of Bansho Tenin (For example two times against Naruto). With a full powered Bansho Tenin, there'll be no time to act like Kakashi did and even if yes, what is Oonokis counter for this?

Like I said, there will be. The strenth will not necessarily influence the ability to move, only the speed of the attraction. Oonoki can guard himself with a Tsuchi golem or the stone fist, for instance.

 

[VisionOfDisorder]

Like I said, there will be. The strenth will not necessarily influence the ability to move, only the speed of the attraction. Oonoki can guard himself with a Tsuchi golem or the stone fist, for instance.

I'm not completely against this argument, but I will say that the force of the attraction itself DOES affect the targets ability to react, I dissagree that Basho only targets a certain area of the body, It clearly is focused on a prticular target, but i dont think its as specific as to attract "a torso". Imagine the takeoff of a space shuttle, or one of thoes Gforce astronaut training machines with the rotating capsule that you sit in, when your body is being moved with such force as that, it makes it harder and harder to move ANY part of your body, as for defending with the stone fist/golem/any kind of stone shield, IMO it would result in Oonoki being violently pressed against his own shield. Still a defense for it, just not the best

 

[Minator93]

Deva U_U