Hiruzen, analyzed in a way no one has

[Scooby Doo]

1. 69 years is pretty close to a lifetime, oro partially meant he wanted to avoid only gaining that knowledge in is old age like his master.

2. The kekkei genkai thing is obvious lol

4. Yeah that's a possibility as well

Btw I edited my theory post to put it in paragraphs now that I figured out how to on my iPad. I also took out the rasengan possibility because It was proven that he didn't have that tech. I will edit it more and more when facts from the manga are brought to prove certain things right or wrong.

Ok. Still, if Rasengan would be the only jutsu Hiruzen couldnt use, then the statement that he could use all of the village's jutsus is already proven wrong.

 

[ChrisWolf]

Oh lol. noone can master 5 elements? didn't I already dissaprove this shit?

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Kishi outright put in his databook that it's possible but would take many long years...

Jiraya SAID IT'S UNHEARD OF TO MASTER THEM ALL AT THE AGE NAGATO DID...
he did at 10 years...


As for the dude who said it's impossible for him to have it because tsunade said only minato and jiraya have it? I don't recall her ever saying that

And do you forget kakashi pulled out raasengan and showed naruto?

Their you go! He could of mastered the elements! That case is closed. Thank you good sir U_U

Ok. Still, if Rasengan would be the only jutsu Hiruzen couldnt use, then the statement that he could use all of the village's jutsus is already proven wrong.

Nope not necessarily because new jutsus can be invented anytime, I think a better way of putting it would be that in his prime or at one point in history he mastered all the leaf jutsus, but new jutsus are always being invented its not only petty to argue over something as insignificant as that but it simply has no effect, the fact is it was said that he mastered every jutsu, obviously that is for a reason so that is still evidence to his power am I correct?

 

[Scooby Doo]

Oh lol. noone can master 5 elements? didn't I already dissaprove this shit?

You must be registered for see links

Kishi outright put in his databook that it's possible but would take many long years...

Jiraya SAID IT'S UNHEARD OF TO MASTER THEM ALL AT THE AGE NAGATO DID...
he did at 10 years...


As for the dude who said it's impossible for him to have it because tsunade said only minato and jiraya have it? I don't recall her ever saying that

And do you forget kakashi pulled out raasengan and showed naruto?

Just because youre a Kage dont call me dude please:

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"Nope not necessarily because new jutsus can be invented anytime, I think a better way of putting it would be that in his prime or at one point in history he mastered all the leaf jutsus, but new jutsus are always being invented its not only petty to argue over something as insignificant as that but it simply has no effect, the fact is it was said that he mastered every jutsu, obviously that is for a reason so that is still evidence to his power am I correct?"

Ok I agree but still cant imagine him knowing every jutsu ...but thats only my opinion...

 

[ChrisWolf]

Just because youre a Kage dont call me dude please:

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You just proved yourself wrong with that, she said 'the only people who can use that jutsu are the 4rth and you. The third is dead! So obviously he can't use it.....also kakashi showed he could use it so obviously tsunade doesn't know everything. So that destroys your last four points against my argument, now you have no argument.

 

[Scooby Doo]

You just proved yourself wrong with that, she said 'the only people who can use that jutsu are the 4rth and you. The third is dead! So obviously he can't use it.....also kakashi showed he could use it so obviously tsunade doesn't know everything. So that destroys your last four points against my argument, now you have no argument.

I knew you'd bring that up when Tsunade said that in present time the 4th was dead too so what do you say? And kakshi maybe learned rasengan later otherwise why didnt he showed rasengan earlier?

 

[Owarij]

I knew you'd bring that up when Tsunade said that in present time the 4th was dead too so what do you say? And kakshi maybe learned rasengan later otherwise why didnt he showed rasengan earlier?

kakashi learned it a long time ago, tried to add his element , and failed...

 

[ChrisWolf]

I knew you'd bring that up when Tsunade said that in present time the 4th was dead too so what do you say? And kakshi maybe learned rasengan later otherwise why didnt he showed rasengan earlier?

He had no need to show it it's not even his style, we already established that even if hiru culdnt use the rasengan then that does not damage the central point of this thread, proving that hiru would at least be a good match and be on the same level as the op characters in naruto in his prime....with that being said tsunade was still wrong about jman and the 4rth being the only ones who could use it because kakashi could use it so your argument is still destroyed. But you fought bravely. :noc:

 

[Scooby Doo]

He had no need to show it it's not even his style, we already established that even if hiru culdnt use the rasengan then that does not damage the central point of this thread, proving that hiru would at least be a good match and be on the same level as the op characters in naruto in his prime....with that being said tsunade was still wrong about jman and the 4rth being the only ones who could use it because kakashi could use it so your argument is still destroyed. But you fought bravely. :noc:

Ok ..:shrug: I cannot argue with two Naruto experts Anyway i admit that in the manga Hiruzen was the strongest but still why Hashirama is so hyped now like a god? And seeing his powers its unbelievable for me how Hiruzen could defeat him? And f.e. why couldnt he do much against the Kyuubi? Even the 3rd raikage could face hachibi.So in the manga Hiruzen was said to be the strongest but if i think of what he has shown and what we have seen of Hashi's powers i cannot imagine Hashi lose to Hiruzen.
And if Hiruzen could use FTG for exa,ple why didnt he just teleport away ? Or if he knew 1000 genjutsus why didnt he use them on Oro? And if he knew strong fuinjutsus why didnt he seal the edo hokages with them instead of shiki fujin.

 

[ChrisWolf]

Ok ..:shrug: I cannot argue with two Naruto experts Anyway i admit that in the manga Hiruzen was the strongest but still why Hashirama is so hyped now like a god? And seeing his powers its unbelievable for me how Hiruzen could defeat him? And f.e. why couldnt he do much against the Kyuubi? Even the 3rd raikage could face hachibi.So in the manga Hiruzen was said to be the strongest but if i think of what he has shown and what we have seen of Hashi's powers i cannot imagine Hashi lose to Hiruzen.

I agree with you, from what we've seen I'd say hashi would would use heru as an ass wipe....but.....we haven't seen hiru in his prime and we havent seen hashi in full action, and we havent seen what really went down between hashi and madara, how he beat him if he really did beat him could make a difference in our opinion.....all I'm trying to do is protect kishis reputation as an author, he wrote hiru is the strongest and so I'm just providing evidence as to how that could be possible.

You see no author would want people to think he has contradictions in his work so that's all I'm trying to do, explain that he doesn't.

 

[Scooby Doo]

I agree with you, from what we've seen I'd say hashi would would use heru as an ass wipe....but.....we haven't seen hiru in his prime and we havent seen hashi in full action, and we havent seen what really went down between hashi and madara, how he beat him if he really did beat him could make a difference in our opinion.....all I'm trying to do is protect kishis reputation as an author, he wrote hiru is the strongest and so I'm just providing evidence as to how that could be possible.

You see no author would want people to think he has contradictions in his work so that's all I'm trying to do, explain that he doesn't.

Then its settled But Kishi has to clear it up soon...

 

[ChrisWolf]

Then its settled But Kishi has to clear it up soon...

I agree, but until that happens this thread serves as proof that it is possible that the third hokage could have been the strongest. So kishi has not contradicted himself.

 

[Scooby Doo]

I agree, but until that happens this thread serves as proof that it is possible that the third hokage could have been the strongest. So kishi has not contradicted himself.

Hmmmm....he must know what he is doing...just dont see yet
(and not to start over the debate but I still dont think Hiruzen used every jutsu for example he sure didnt use edo tensei)

 

[ChrisWolf]

Hmmmm....he must know what he is doing...just dont see yet
(and not to start over the debate but I still dont think Hiruzen used every jutsu for example he sure didnt use edo tensei)

Edo tensei is a forbidden tech that the third probably had moral qwiffs with so he would probly never use It.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Edo tensei is a forbidden tech that the third probably had moral qwiffs with so he would probly never use It.

Then he didnt use every jutsu that exist in Konoha (ok i'll stop I wont post more it was good but it could go on forever)

 

[ChrisWolf]

Then he didnt use every jutsu that exist in Konoha (ok i'll stop I wont post more it was good but it could go on forever)

No one said that he used every jutsu in the leads just that he knew every jutsu in the leaf, true 2nd hokage could have even entrusted it to him. He was one of is masters and she invented it.

 

[Scooby Doo]

No one said that he used every jutsu in the leads just that he knew every jutsu in the leaf, true 2nd hokage could have even entrusted it to him. He was one of is masters and she invented it.

I said I wont post more but Oro said he used every jutsu...

 

[ChrisWolf]

I said I wont post more but Oro said he used every jutsu...

He meant he could use it, like saying the uchiha use firstyle jutsu but their could still be one uchiha tat never uses it after learning it....still arguing over silly stuff lol

 

[Scooby Doo]

He meant he could use it, like saying the uchiha use firstyle jutsu but their could still be one uchiha tat never uses it after learning it....still arguing over silly stuff lol

But how could he use it that would need a human body but Hiruzen would never do that.

 

[ChrisWolf]

But how could he use it that would need a human body but Hiruzen would never do that.

Exactly my point! He could do it but he doesn't

 

[Scooby Doo]

Exactly my point! He could do it but he doesn't

But then anybody could use any jutsu but they dont