LOL, if Hashirama was even older when he died, then there would be a shorter gap of time between both of their primes. And what do you not understand about "Hiruzen reached his prime about 20-30 years after that photo?" So it doesn't really matter when Hashirama died, people witnessed both of their primes, and that's that.
LOL, if Hashirama was even older when he died, then there would be a shorter gap of time between both of their primes. And what do you not understand about "Hiruzen reached his prime about 20-30 years after that photo?" So it doesn't really matter when Hashirama died, people witnessed both of their primes, and that's that.
unless these people are onokis age then they have not witnessed both primes. you are basically saying that it is not possible that hashirama passed his prime. in his photo with team tobirama, he could be in his 50s, or 40s maybe in his very early 60s. who knows. im still waiting for that scan that states how old hashirama was when he died.
unless these people are onokis age then they have not witnessed both primes. you are basically saying that it is not possible that hashirama passed his prime. in his photo with team tobirama, he could be in his 50s, or 40s maybe in his very early 60s. who knows. im still waiting for that scan that states how old hashirama was when he died.
Does he honestly look 40-60 to you? He still has black hair, and looks the exact same as in the founding of Konoha. And that's disregarding Tobirama, who looks pretty young. How could Tobirama possibly be Hokage in his 50s? You're using a pretty crappy argument at this point. 0_0
Does he honestly look 40-60 to you? He still has black hair, and looks the exact same as in the founding of Konoha. And that's disregarding Tobirama, who looks pretty young. How could Tobirama possibly be Hokage in his 50s? You're using a pretty crappy argument at this point. 0_0
Part 1 There's people who lived through both Hashirama AND Hiruzen's primes. Yet who was called the strongest Hokage, "The God of Shinobi," and "The Professor?" Those people wouldn't just go like "oh yeah what we saw of Hashirama wasn't real; it was just a myth!!! Hiruzen is our second choice then!!" The fact is, those people who witnessed both of their eras considered Hiruzen better.
1. Here's a copy paste from one of my other posts: "And yes, people from Hashirama's prime witnessed Hiruzen's prime. Say there was a 20 year old guy living through Hashirama's prime. Hashirama died not too long after his fight with Madara (5 years at max), because Tobirama looked the exact same as Hokage. And Tobirama stayed the same looks-wise when Hiruzen became Hokage. I'll be generous and say there was a 15 year time gap in Hashirama's death (at a young age) and Hiruzen becoming Hokage. 10 years later, Hiruzen probably reached his prime. That'd make the 20 year olds from Hashirama's era around 45-50. So I see no reason for them to have witnessed Hiruzen's prime. Hell, add in another 10 years and they'd still be able to witness his prime. Forget it, add another 10 years on top of that and they'd still witness it. And who was called "The God of Shinobi" or "The Professor" by them?"
2. Possible explanation for Hashirama being considered a myth: And did you guys ever consider that Hashirama's power was possibly called a myth because he was the only user of Mokuton? Or maybe myth meant that Hashirama's techs were on a much larger scale, size-wise. That doesn't mean anything in being the best Hokage. Being a myth doesn't automatically make you above everyone else.
3. And here's a little more proof, regarding Orochimaru and his Edos, for those yet-remaining skeptics: Orochimaru PERFECTED Edo Tensei, meaning that he had prime Hashirama as one of his pawns. It just didn't seem like it because Part 2 power scaling > Part 1 power scaling (Tobirama's basic Suiton was considered Kage level). Anyways, Orochimaru still considered Hiruzen as the strongest Hokage, and "The God of Shinobi." Did you notice that he was only taunting Hiruzen's old age, not his actual ability compared to Hashirama and Tobirama? And note that Orochimaru despised Hiruzen, yet still complemented him as someone who used to be the strongest Hokage.
So in conclusion, people who saw both of their primes still considered Hiruzen the best Hokage. Case closed.
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A copy paste from one of my threads, with additional proof:
So there's this butthurt Hashirama fanboy who thinks that either:
1. No one who saw Hashirama's prime saw Hiruzen's too (which I'll debunk later).
2. That not a single damn person in the entire Konoha believed people talking about Hashirama's prime (which I'll debunk later on too).
I'll be getting into the background, and then the two theories.
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Here's an image of when Tobirama and Hashirama (arguably in his prime) were still alive, with a young Hiruzen:
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From the looks of it, Hiruzen became Hokage at most 15 years AFTER this image was taken, meaning that Hashirama died not too long after this, so he reached his prime not too much after, or was already in his prime. Here's an image of Hiruzen when he became Hokage, showing only about a 10-15 year age difference.
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Now there obviously was a lot of 20 year olds living during the first photo, don't you think? If Hiruzen reached his prime around 25 years later after the first photo (10 years after becoming Hokage), those same people would be 45. Hell, the 15 year olds from Hashirama's prime would be 40. So many people witnessed both Hashirama's and Hiruzen's prime. That's enough with the background information.
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Now here's where both of our theories split paths, seeing that these men obviously witnessed both of their primes:
1. The Hashirama fan's theory - Every single 40-60(+) year old that saw both of their primes (which they obviously did, as proven above) tried convincing every single person in Konoha that Hashirama > Hiruzen, yet not a single person believed them. OR he says that no one from Hashirama's prime witnessed Hiruzen's (which has been debunked above).
My argument against this: Tell me, people of NB, do you think every 40 year old in our society is some geezer with Alzheimers or something? Besides, many members from Hiruzen's old team and such, were still alive and probably looked up to, so they would have been believed if they said Hashirama > Hiruzen (since they witnessed both primes). But who was called the strongest Hokage by all of these men and women from both of the Kages' prime eras?
2. My theory - These men, who saw both of their primes (as proven above), considered Hiruzen to be the stronger Hokage. They gave Hiruzen the nickname "The God of Shinobi" and others, representing him as being the strongest Hokage. But they still told people of Hashirama's power (who might have had more raw power), but some didn't believe them, because they didn't believe someone could use Mokuton, and use it on such a large scale. So some considered Hashirama a myth. The myth aspect is due to some not believing that someone could actually create wood, and on such a large scale.
His argument against this: He thinks that because we don't know when Hashirama died (though he looked the same as an Edo), my theory can't prove anything. But in reality, it doesn't matter, because Hiruzen reached his prime about 25 years after Hashirama was still alive, regardless of when Hashirama died.
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You seem to have forgotten one tiny detail. Only a few out of those alive in Hashirama's day would have witnessed him going all out. Just like Oonoki had fought Madara several times and yet didnt know about perfect susano, there could have been lots of people in Hashi's day who didnt know about his true power.
And one more thing to think about. The raw power Hashirama had must have been miles ahead of Hiruzen's for Hashirama to be considered a fairy tale.
Think about this way. Supposing am an engineer and I say I've made a car which is capable of reaching 400mph. Would that be hard to believe ? No. Because there're cars that can reach 381mph atm. What about 400 years ago. If I claimed I've made a car than could reach a top speed of 400mph would it still be believable?
thats not what i said but sure, take out one part of the post and ignore the rest because you have no counter. my point was that we dont know how old hashirama was when he died. it is unknown.
thats not what i said but sure, take out one part of the post and ignore the rest because you have no counter. my point was that we dont know how old hashirama was when he died. it is unknown.
1st is stronger than 3rd. till we see what hiruzen can do in his prime. probably still not enough to beat hashirama. i mean cmon. monkey? a couple of elements? thats it?
i said that danzo had no grey hair. i never said that he didnt have wrinkles. i said that jiraiya didnt have wrinkles. i never said he didnt have grey hair. thats obviously a picture of hashirama before konohas founding as he doesnt have a leaf headband but is sporting battle armor.
if hiruzen was not the best then why would he be selected as hokage at such a young age you know why because hashirama and tobimaru seen him in his prime and know how powerful he really is.
he might be in his late 40s or so. this is a manga some ppl just look young. look at jiraya he is old and doesnt seem to be in his 50s or late 40s(whatever his exact age is) at all. and danzo doesnt look like he is the same age as hiruzen but he is. and that sages kid said dnazo didnt have white hair not that he didnt have wrinkles stop trying to change what other ppl say. And this pic is older than the founding of konoha
And he is senju inheriting the sage's physical energy and body which might add to the reason why they look younger than their age actually shows them to be. tobirama looks almost exactly the same when he is with hirzuen as a little kid and when he is a teenager seems like they dont show their age nearly as fast or kishi just drew them like that
