[Theory] Itachi never actually found the Totsuka sword/Yata mirror

[siyo]

I’m beginning to think the Totsuka sword and the yata mirror originated from a variation of a perfect Susanoo. It is never actually said the weapons were separate, the databook makes no clear distinction at all, and the only reason we dismiss it, is because of Orochimaro and Zetzu- they both commented on the legendary weapons without knowing about Itachi’s full form.


Madara’s sword:

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As you can see, his sword is not an ordinary one. It literally has the power to break all creation, which we had a taste off when he cut through the mountains like a hot knife through butter. He can change the entire landscape, by the way, so could Hashirama which is why VOTE look like it does now. This is simply not a default susanoo sword, and it wouldn’t make any sense if any of other perfect Susanoo variations lacked something, at least, remotely close to that overwhelming power, which leads me to Itachi’s weapons which I think he had all along but, he was not the first one who had them. ..

This is what the Databook says about Susanoo:

Spoiler

Susanoo¹ (須佐能乎)
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai, No rank, Offensive, Defensive, All ranges
User: Uchiha Itachi

Protecting the user, destroying the enemy!

[picture of Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan]
→↓As the strongest doujutsu, only they can reach it who have taken the "Mangekyou Sharingan," feared by those around it, to its extremes. A godly state. Its the user's guardian deity, but at the same time, it consumes the user's life.
[picture of Itachi surrounded by Susanoo]

Dwelling in the eyes that grasp the truth of Heaven and Earth is a valorous sword-wielding, shield-bearing fierce god!!

The two doujutsu that only those who have activated the "Mangekyou Sharingan" are permitted to use~~ "Amaterasu²," denoting the "light of the material world" and "Tsukuyomi³," symbolising the "darkness of the spiritual world"~~ Only those who have activated the "Mangekyou Sharingan" -the heavenly eyes that see without obstruction the truth of all of creation- are permitted to use these two doujutsu. Dwelling only in those who have grasped both of these technique is the power of a tempestuous god... that is "Susanoo". The materialised chakra takes on the form of a war god with a commanding face and powerful physique. His fierce soul will not calm down until he has destroyed all enemies before his eyes...!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is a reason "Susanoo" boasts absolute perfection in both offence and defence~~ That reason is the "Sacred Treasures*" he holds in both hands. In his right hand is the "Totsuka Sword"** that will strike down any kind of enemy and the shield in his left hand is the "Yata Mirror"*** that will reflect all attacks. Whether they be material or spiritual, ninjutsu or physical attacks, they all lose their meaning before this god's potency.

[picture of the gourd as the Totsuka Sword appears from it]
↑Sake flows from the gourd, taking on the shape of a sword and transforming into the "Totsuka Sword"! The souls absorbed by the sword are also sealed in there.

In his left and right hands are the unparalleled Sacred Treasures of miraculous efficacy

The Totsuka Sword
[picture of Orochimaru being sealed into the Totsuka Sword]
←It's a type of "Kusanagi Sword*," equipped with the power to throw the person it stabs into a genjutsu world of drunken dreams, sealing them for all eternity. The sword itself carries a "fuuinjutsu".

The Yata Mirror
[picture of Susanoo holding up the Yata Mirror]
→The incorporeal shield of the "Sacred Treasures". Endowed with all "nature transformations," it can change its own characteristics depending on the characteristics of the attack it receives, making the technique ineffective.

Orochimaro and Zetzu both knew about the weapons, because someone else made them famous before Itachi. Someone else had similar chakra to Itachi and managed to unlock full susanoo, that person (could be plural, but I doubt since susanoo is rare) was a former uchiha who lived before Orochimaro’s time. We have already seen different users with amateretsu, tsukuyomi, etc., and as clan you would think that they would share the same techniques since they share the same bloodline.

 

[The Hero]

Has the thought of Shisui ever occured to you? It could have been given to Itachi by him or Itachi was gifted with them.

 

[siyo]

Has the thought of Shisui ever occured to you? It could have been given to Itachi by him or Itachi was gifted with them.

What do you mean? You need tsukuyomi and amaterasu to awaken susanoo, and shisui did not possess both since he had KA.

 

[p0002q]

Has the thought of Shisui ever occured to you? It could have been given to Itachi by him or Itachi was gifted with them.

Such an A_HoLe tone to be followed up by your "IT COULD HAVE BEEN" line.

sheesh

 

[Charles Kakuro]

wenr't you one of the ones who said A was immune to genjutsu aswell.

 

[siyo]

Such an A_HoLe tone to be followed up by your "IT COULD HAVE BEEN" line.

sheesh

Exactly, but this is NB.

wenr't you one of the ones who said A was immune to genjutsu aswell.

Nope.

 

[The Hero]

What do you mean? You need tsukuyomi and amaterasu to awaken susanoo, and shisui did not possess both since he had KA.

Mmm, Shishui did awaken Tsukyumi and Amaterasu. His genjutsu were known for being much greater than Tsyukuyomi's level. That is why Tobi hunted Shisui's eyes down- probably to power the Moon's Eye Plan. His eyes are apparently more promising than Itachi's. Unfortunately- both eyes are now gone. And sorry if my upper comment sounded rude. Didn't mean it...

 

[siyo]

Mmm, Shishui did awaken Tsukyumi and Amaterasu. His genjutsu were known for being much greater than Tsyukuyomi's level. That is why Tobi hunted Shisui's eyes down- probably to power the Moon's Eye Plan. His eyes are apparently more promising than Itachi's. Unfortunately- both eyes are now gone. And sorry if my upper comment sounded rude. Didn't mean it...

Apology accepted.


I do not believe KA and Tsukuyomi are the same technique at all.Itachi was a genjutso specialist, he could even manipulate time within his tsukuyomi- something Sasuke can’t even do yet.I don't think you can improve it anymore.

KA is the best genjutsu period, you can fool your target without the person knowing it. It doesn't hurt your target either, so two very different jutsus.


You should make a theory about it regardless.

 

[Blaze Release]

I disagree. It seems susano has its own weapons and attacks. Sasuke's is the bow and arrow and blaze release magatama. Madara's is yasakas magatama and a sword. Itachi's is yasaka's matagama, but funny enough his weapons are legendary.

Anyway the databook entry on susano is restricted to itachi, and the same can be said about tsukuyomi which talks about manipulation of time and space (or something like that) something that only itachi can do.

Thirdly oro was looking for it, which hints that its a weapons are well known much like the sages legendary weapons
You are right though, i dont believe itachi found those weapons but rather the weapons found him, going by the myth

 

[siyo]

I disagree. It seems susano has its own weapons and attacks. Sasuke's is the bow and arrow and blaze release magatama. Madara's is yasakas magatama and a sword. Itachi's is yasaka's matagama, but funny enough his weapons are legendary.

We have not seen any weapons from Itachi other than the totsuka sword and yata mirror, so are you saying he dumped them? Are you saying Itachi first weapons were horrible when you compared them to his new found ones?

Anyway the databook entry on susano is restricted to itachi, and the same can be said about tsukuyomi which talks about manipulation of time and space (or something like that) something that only itachi can do.

You might be right here, might not, but then you’re also saying that you might not necessarily need neither tsukuyomi nor amateratsu to awaken susano’o.

Thirdly oro was looking for it, which hints that its a weapons are well known much like the sages legendary weapons
You are right though, i dont believe itachi found those weapons but rather the weapons found him, going by the myth

No, it implies it existed somewhere before. It makes sense that Orochimaro, a genious, couldn’t find something only an MS user can activate via susano’o. Orochimaro is a scientist and he even decoded the tablet without ever reading it, he would naturally know about any sacred treasures around, or tales about their abilities which would make Orochimaro go look for them.

What does the myth say?

 

[nandamine]

i believe sharingan jutsu is different per person. if i could say there is susanoo types like itachi, sasuke and madara and there are suction type like tobi and kakashi, there is super powerfull genjutsu with izanagi and izanami type like shisui and itachi and danzo i guess

 

[siyo]

i believe sharingan jutsu is different per person. if i could say there is susanoo types like itachi, sasuke and madara and there are suction type like tobi and kakashi, there is super powerfull genjutsu with izanagi and izanami type like shisui and itachi and danzo i guess

I think you are saying that the people within the uchiha clan have different abilities which I agree with, though, there are people who unlock the same thing.

 

[Fluffyman]

The Totsuka sword and Yata Mirror exist in the japanese mythology.
It is said that you cant find these items, they have no physical form to begin with and the Items chose their wielders themselfs. And only a person with a pure heart will be chosen.

It goes perfectly with the Manga.

- Orochimaru searched his whole life and couldnt find it, and if Orochimaru couldnt find it chances are high that no one else could do it. Hes one of the smartest persons in the Manga, he even discovered a few secrets about the MS/EMS and even Rinnegan (Madara was a bit shocked after Kabuto told him about).
- Itachi is person with a pure heart.

So both requirements were fullfilled in the Manga and as we know Kishi works very much with japanese mythology.

 

[Blaze Release]

We have not seen any weapons from Itachi other than the totsuka sword and yata mirror, so are you saying he dumped them? Are you saying Itachi first weapons were horrible when you compared them to his new found ones?

Lol thats not what im saying. What im saying is that becaue kishi gave itachi those legendary weapons he didnt feel the need to give him susano's weapons aswell. He did however give him susano's attack in the form of yasakas magatama

You might be right here, might not, but then you’re also saying that you might not necessarily need neither tsukuyomi nor amateratsu to awaken susano’o.

It was never implied that you needed tsukuyomi and maaterasu to awaken susano. It does say in the db but as ive said that was restricted to itachi and him only and the same can be said about tsukuyomi's databook entry. From the manga it says thsoe who have mastered both ms eyes. This can come from mastery of any 2 ms technique and awaken susano. I dont believe only amaterasu and tsukuyomi awakens susano

No, it implies it existed somewhere before. It makes sense that Orochimaro, a genious, couldn’t find something only an MS user can activate via susano’o. Orochimaro is a scientist and he even decoded the tablet without ever reading it, he would naturally know about any sacred treasures around, or tales about their abilities which would make Orochimaro go look for them.

I did say it existed, no different to the other legendary weapons which were the sages although its never implied that itachi's weapons are from the sage

What does the myth say?

Cannot remember but there is a japaenese myth i believe about the weapons and how it finds those with pure hearts or something like that

 

[Aze]

I’m beginning to think the Totsuka sword and the yata mirror originated from a variation of a perfect Susanoo. It is never actually said the weapons were separate, the databook makes no clear distinction at all, and the only reason we dismiss it, is because of Orochimaro and Zetzu- they both commented on the legendary weapons without knowing about Itachi’s full form.


Madara’s sword:

You must be registered for see images

As you can see, his sword is not an ordinary one. It literally has the power to break all creation, which we had a taste off when he cut through the mountains like a hot knife through butter. He can change the entire landscape, by the way, so could Hashirama which is why VOTE look like it does now. This is simply not a default susanoo sword, and it wouldn’t make any sense if any of other perfect Susanoo variations lacked something, at least, remotely close to that overwhelming power, which leads me to Itachi’s weapons which I think he had all along but, he was not the first one who had them. ..

This is what the Databook says about Susanoo:






Orochimaro and Zetzu both knew about the weapons, because someone else made them famous before Itachi. Someone else had similar chakra to Itachi and managed to unlock full susanoo, that person (could be plural, but I doubt since susanoo is rare) was a former uchiha who lived before Orochimaro’s time. We have already seen different users with amateretsu, tsukuyomi, etc., and as clan you would think that they would share the same techniques since they share the same bloodline.

Good observation + Speculation + rep.​

 

[siyo]

Lol thats not what im saying. What im saying is that becaue kishi gave itachi those legendary weapons he didnt feel the need to give him susano's weapons aswell. He did however give him susano's attack in the form of yasakas magatama

Lol, you kinda were, though. We have never seen Itachi’s so-called other weapons, where are they?

Saying Kishi didn’t feel like giving them to Itachi is a copout, and you know it, besides it makes perfect sense that every perfect Susanoo each holds something extremely haxxed and valuable.

Itachi either got rid of them, because they were nothing compared to his new ones, which would be disappointing to say the least, or these are his naturally awakened weapons. While Madara can pretty much destroy anything with his mighty sword, Itachi’s version can seal everything it pierces, and Sasuke will naturally get something greater than both of them (or at least be their equal in this regard). H eis one of the main characters and will match Naruto sooner than later.

Yasaka magatama is nothing special (in this context ), and it’s merely one of the tools the rare users of Susano’o can utilize -obviously with different shape and sizes depending on the user.

It was never implied that you needed tsukuyomi and maaterasu to awaken susano. It does say in the db but as ive said that was restricted to itachi and him only and the same can be said about tsukuyomi's databook entry. From the manga it says thsoe who have mastered both ms eyes. This can come from mastery of any 2 ms technique and awaken susano. I dont believe only amaterasu and tsukuyomi awakens susano

It was directly stated in the databook, very specific at that, the the requirements and nowhere does it say that it only applies to Itachi, even though it is his section

I did say it existed, no different to the other legendary weapons which were the sages although its never implied that itachi's weapons are from the sage

No you said that it implied it could be found, which is not true. It merely implied that it existed before Itachi had them.As you said nobody compared Itachi's weapons to the sage.

Cannot remember but there is a japaenese myth i believe about the weapons and how it finds those with pure hearts or something like that

Ok, i know most of them just not how these weapons were found.It might even help my theory.

 

[siyo]

Good observation + Speculation + rep.​

Thx, I appreciate it.

 

[Blaze Release]

Lol, you kinda were, though. We have never seen Itachi’s so-called other weapons, where are they?

Saying Kishi didn’t feel like giving them to Itachi is a copout, and you know it, besides it makes perfect sense that every perfect Susanoo each holds something extremely haxxed and valuable.

Itachi either got rid of them, because they were nothing compared to his new ones, which would be disappointing to say the least, or these are his naturally awakened weapons. While Madara can pretty much destroy anything with his mighty sword, Itachi’s version can seal everything it pierces, and Sasuke will naturally get something greater than both of them (or at least be their equal in this regard). H eis one of the main characters and will match Naruto sooner than later.

Yasaka magatama is nothing special (in this context ), and it’s merely one of the tools the rare users of Susano’o can utilize -obviously with different shape and sizes depending on the user.

Your theory is nice and all, but not when its been stated that the weapons didnt come with susano, but its the same weapons that oro was looking for. Also i wouldnt call what i stated a coup out. Itachi is op enough having legendary weapons and then susano's other weapons makes him even more op.

It was directly stated in the databook, very specific at that, the the requirements and nowhere does it say that it only applies to Itachi, even though it is his section

In the manga it doesnt state that you need amaterasu and tsukuyomi.
Secondly as i told you if you look at the databook entry for tsukuyomi it talks about time and space which again is only confined to itachi.

 

[Zlad]

What Blaze Release said. It's sick how OP Madara is, wasnt Rinnegan and Mokuton enough? This will make Sasuke equal to Naruto anyway

 

[Mynnahling]

Your theory is nice and all, but not when its been stated that the weapons didnt come with susano, but its the same weapons that oro was looking for. Also i wouldnt call what i stated a coup out. Itachi is op enough having legendary weapons and then susano's other weapons makes him even more op.

I don't think it's that adding the Susanoo weapons would make Itachi op but that adding them would be superfluous. If you have a weapons like the Totsuka Sword and Yata mirror why would you use lesser weapons? Against Orochimarus 8 headed form no less. I know that was kinda your point just elaborating.

Edit: Just reread siyos post and saw "Itachi either got rid of them, because they were nothing compared to his new ones, which would be disappointing to say the least"

I dont see it as disappointing. I wouldn't expect weapons from Susanoo to be useful compared to one of a kind legendary weapons. One blocks all incoming ninjutsu while the other can seal from afar with just a nick. Not to mention the speed of the Totsuka.